Going Gold: Why You Need to Buy Heavy Rain

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Sparrow:

Yossarian1507:
*sniiiiip!*

This might sound a little odd, but I'm actually sided with you on this point. I've not actually played the game, and most of my opinions are based off of videos of it I've seen on Youtube.

That's exactly the problem though. Unless I can find someone to steal this off of, I'm not going to buy it. Simply because, I don't like of the look of it, and with today's current game prices, I'm not going to spend 40 on a game I don't like the look of.

So, I'm generally screwed, and I'll never be able to create a concrete opinion of this game.

And you don't have a PS3. That's a big factor.

Right?

SamuelT:

Sparrow:

Yossarian1507:
*sniiiiip!*

This might sound a little odd, but I'm actually sided with you on this point. I've not actually played the game, and most of my opinions are based off of videos of it I've seen on Youtube.

That's exactly the problem though. Unless I can find someone to steal this off of, I'm not going to buy it. Simply because, I don't like of the look of it, and with today's current game prices, I'm not going to spend 40 on a game I don't like the look of.

So, I'm generally screwed, and I'll never be able to create a concrete opinion of this game.

And you don't have a PS3. That's a big factor.

Right?

I do indeed have one.

Well. It just got fixed actually. I barely use it.

RestlessDream:

llafnwod:
Like a lot of people here, I've got to agree that saying the war in the game industry is between games like Halo and Heavy Rain is presenting a false dichotomy. An evocative story and engaging gameplay don't have to be mutually exclusive; in fact, in a good game, the two compliment each other.

All I ask is that you consider where you want this industry to go. Heavy Rain asks how far you are willing to go to save somebody you love.

Guess what? Shadow of the Colossus asked the same question, and it did it with fantastic gameplay and something like three lines of dialogue.

Actually Shadow of the Colossus asked if you'd be willing to save the princess from the assorted monsters. Of course I'm over simplifying it but to say that is the same as a reflection of moral everyday life then I'd like to know how many giants you climbed yesterday. And I'm not trying to knock Shadow, I'm just saying it's trying to compare apples to ambrosia. Could someone you love be taken by a sadistic serial killer? Considering the statistical data on active serial killers in the US alone, well it's more of a reality then it is having to face a monster the size of the Empire State Building.

That's true, SotC can't evoke the emotions of everyday life as directly as a game like Heavy Rain, but I don't think it really needs to. You can be inspired by mythical stories without wanting to burst out your door a slay a hydra. The point of the game from an emotional perspective is precisely that it wasn't a classic kill-the monster save-the-princess story. The Colossi are presented as personifications of nature, and the game pretty heavily implies that you're doing horrible work by destroying them. The point is that the quest isn't just a physical test; the hero is willing to destroy his own soul to get this girl's life back. He believed in something and placed it at greater worth than the world and than himself.

I'm certainly not saying that less fantastical storylines or gameplay closer to real-world action aren't useful for telling a compelling and relevant story. I'm just saying they're not the only things capable of doing so.

Okay, I just finished playing this game, on my brothers PS3, and all I can say is "HOLY FUCKING SHIT"

This game is possibly one of the best gaming experiences I've had. Sure the voice acting was subpar, and the motion control sucked, but I found that all fading away when i was driving against traffic, and walking through a hallway shooting every fucking guard that came my way. This game had me on the edge of my seat the entire time, having me regret choices, as well as saying thank god. I nearly died so many times in this game, i lost count. My mother even got annoyed at me for screaming like a bantchee when the characters were in trouble

This game is one big QTE/Choose your own adventure, sorry guys, but it works.

QTEs are only bad if they have no place in the game, but in this game they did, and CYOAs are only bad if their are a very limited amounts of possibilities. This game has its glitches, but made up for them by compelling even the most casual of gamers.

Not to mention, my brother came in every once in a while and telling me what he did in certain situations, and at the end of the game, we compared our choices. Turns out I was alot more patient then him, choosing to try talk most people down, but unfortunately failing.

Finally the conclusion level, i was hyperventilating the entire time, end ended up holding my breath when you think so-and-so was what-and-what at the where-and-where and then turning out not to be such-and-such

Absolutely not. Heavy Rain sucks entirely.
The gameplay consists almost entirely of quick time events, most of which cause minor actions such as opening a door or even using an inhaler. They're also badly placed, so some actions happen automatically whereas others require button pressing. The gameplay doesnt' flow because these quick time events are placed so arbitrarily. The controls are very tacky as well. If you don't do exactly as the game says, you will have to try the sequence again. As for the graphics, they're pretty, but most of the time the screen is almost entirely dark and it is impossible to see what's going on.

The story does not save this game. Nor does the fact that it took years to make. If I want a compelling story about crooked cops and a serial killer, I'll just find something on television or in a movie.

Caliostro:

Christian Ward:
Gamers are very good at saying "no" - no paid DLC, no DRM, no sequels that come out too close to the original game.

Actually, I have to disagree. Gamers are dreadful at saying no. They'll shout no. They'll yell it out. They'll scream and shout that you'll never see them play whatever game they're boycotting for whatever legitimate (or not) reason. They'll scream it as loud as they can even when driving to the store and paying for the game they're boycotting, even later on while playing it...

Unfortunately, that's true, but that just does more to strengthen my resolve. Shame on people who buy products they don't agree with because it's the next big thing; I guess they just genuinely enjoy complaining.

Good, we'll add another movie to the PS3 "game" list.

Ahh I really want to buy it! It sounds so interesting! But I have a 360 not a ps3, and not enough cash to buy a second console.

>_< Great, now I feel like i'm letting the industry down.

zipzod:
Absolutely not. Heavy Rain sucks entirely.
The gameplay consists almost entirely of quick time events, most of which cause minor actions such as opening a door or even using an inhaler. They're also badly placed, so some actions happen automatically whereas others require button pressing. The gameplay doesnt' flow because these quick time events are placed so arbitrarily. The controls are very tacky as well. If you don't do exactly as the game says, you will have to try the sequence again. As for the graphics, they're pretty, but most of the time the screen is almost entirely dark and it is impossible to see what's going on.

I beat the game twice, and didn't encounter any arbitrary actions to do, nor any badly placed. Examples or it didn't happened. Kthnx.

I've read that Indigo Prophecy was a let down for gameplay and story. I have Heavy Rain but haven't had a chance to play yet. But my son, after 2 sittings, is over 1/2 way done and loving it. He is a Call of Duty fanatic, yet he is really enjoying this game.

Am I supposed to be impressed that this game deals with "real adult themes for real adults?" Is dealing with "real adult themes for real adults" supposed to be new for games?

Getting tested for prostate cancer is a real adult theme for real adults. When "Awkward Doctor Visit" doesn't sell well, are we supposed to worry for the future of "real adult themes for real adults?" Or is the only thing that suffer a set back the ego of a pretentious Frenchman who thinks his game is a turning point for no other reason than he said so.

Rocketboy13:
So the article's main thrust can be summed up thus:
1) sure it has poor controls
2) sure it is barely a game
3) there are numerous glitches
4) And the writing suffers from clunky dialogue and dragging narrative
5) buy it to encourage more of the same.

I don't follow your assertions. Buying something of poor quality only encourages the production of poor quality (for example, the Wii and all its terrible games).

I also find it mentally insulting to say that it would close doors on people who wish to develop mature subjects in the future. Silent Hill, Grand Theft Auto, and Mass Effect have all covered a variety of mature topics, and they smartly decided not to tackle the subject matter of Heavy Rain because video games are a poor medium for such a story that doesn't focus on wizz-bang fun or supernatural terror.

In fact I hope this game fails so that someone else can take the ideas behind it and do them with more skill and marketable execution.

Wow, I really don't even know where to start disagreeing with you...0o

While reading page after page of people spewing the same shit like "I'M NOT GETTING THIS GAME CAUSE", it's just goes to show the level of maturity and mentality level that some gamers have. Everyone thinks they're a freakin' critic and that their opinion is Bible. But it seems that majority of the people in this thread haven't even played the game. They're going by hearsay and that is one of the most ignorant things you can possibly do.

I remember another game called, hmm.. Bayonetta, that everyone was trashing before the game came out. And hot damn, that game did well in sales and ratings. And it was damn awesome to play. Button masher or not, it was still a sweet ass game to play. Or how many movies, songs, games, (ffs) food you heard were gonna be "terrible" but you played/watched/listen/ate it and you actually liked it? I bet there's a number of things out there that you had a different opinion on before you tried it.

How about you guys get off YOUR pretentious douchebaggery high horses and try it (if you have a PS3). That's why they still have game rental places so people can TRY the game instead of talking bullshit about it cause they heard it from their friends or on a website. If you tried it and still didn't like it, at least you can give a valid arguement. If you don't/won't/didn't, then truth be told, you really have no say in it.

Sorry, I just hate seeing people spew useless bullshit that they can't even back up with a valid arguement.

This game made me completely lose track of time and basic needs of everyday life. Like, in a way that a game hasn't since Final Fantasy VII. I got home from college around 6:00pm, with my brand new copy of Heavy Rain in hand. I thought "definitely gonna try this before I go to sleep". So I play for a bit, get REALLY into it, I completely forgot I was even playing a game. I look at the clock and it is 2:00am and I am like "oh.. uh... shit... better get to bed...".

Been playing all day today too, from about 9:00am - 1:00pm. NOT ADDICTED BY THE WAY I CAN STOP ANY TIME I WANT ;_;.

I always had confidence in this game, but even in the back of mind I was slightly skeptical. I mean, Omikron was good to me in its own way but failed on every conceivable level (wouldn't mind seeing this remade or a sequel though), Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy was interesting but had its problems. I thought this game would turn out like one of those, but it did not. It absolutely annihilates both past Quantic Dream games and most games that come out these days.

"...comic-book hell and deal with real adult themes"

Oh like Maus, American Splendour and Jar of Fools did then.

Christ that attitude gets on my tits.

Anyway...

I played the demo and after a few niggles found myself really getting into it. It's a big bold experiment that for the most part actually works and has above all atmosphere! It will create more of the same which is GOOD because it will with any luck encourage an increase in quality within what could be a new genre in gaming.

I'll be getting this.

This game is great. Nuff said.

Well i haven't played heavy rain but i like the look of the videos so i will be buying it tomorrow.

fatb0y:
I've read that Indigo Prophecy was a let down for gameplay and story. I have Heavy Rain but haven't had a chance to play yet. But my son, after 2 sittings, is over 1/2 way done and loving it. He is a Call of Duty fanatic, yet he is really enjoying this game.

True the controls were a bit clunky but not much more so than resident evil or a number of other games at the time.
The story on the other hand was quite good right up until the halfway mark when it suddenly turned from a crime thriller type story to a fantasy/science fiction story where your character becomes a cross between neo and timelord. It just keeps getting worse from there.

If you have a PS3 you simply must play this game.
Buy it or borrow it but you should give it a try.

Heavy Rain is a game I wouldn't mind getting, but can't see paying full price for. And that's if I had income at the moment.

It's interesting enough that I wouldn't mind giving it a go proper, the demo wasn't terrible or anything, but I just don't see it entertaining me enough to be worth the full retail on my part. It looks nice and has a refreshing focus on story, yes, but it's also not all that interesting for the duration of the demo, never mind a full experience meant to be palyed through several times for assorted outcomes.

And besides, any FF fanboy will argue that storytelling has been a focus in games for ages now, oblivious to how droll and predictable their citations will be. We don't need games to focus more on narrative so much as we need games with narrative that have been around all along to focus on not making said narratives predictable and bland. And we don't need to give up gameplay to get that.

At least Heavy Rain is creating a debate about how people would like a game to be in terms of story telling.

This game intrigues me and i like the idea of a good story to work around, main problem with this gae is the gameplay not the story, if this game played more like a first person shooter with this story im sure people would love it.

Personally i like that they have "tried" something different, whether or not you think its crap or not and as many people have said on here they think its shit you know thats fine, games like Modern Warfare 2 are made and sell really well because there popular and people know what there getting. But i like the idea of having a good story to follow even if the gameplay didnt seem too great to me while playing the demo.

I dont think however that people should be so scathing of this game because they dont like the gameplay and think games like this shouldnt be made as really that makes them as worse as the people saying "your not mature enough" to play a game like this.

Its not for everyone but i like the fact someone at least tried... to make a new game even if i dont agree with there idea's totally eg. gameplay. But you know variety makes things interesting and fresh, otherwise we will end up with Modern Warfare 10 Saddam strikes back, with a story 10 times worse than modern warfare 2 and that was truely terrible at that.

If you dont like dont buy it, but just because you dont like it doesnt mean its terrible or wasnt worth making.

I for one probably will buy it when i have the money.

i get what your saying here but i get a new game like every 2 months so i don't want to uy something i'll beat then again sometime in the next. i'm as big a fan of storytelling in games as any, but when thats the only hook i'd rather get a live action movie which cost 30 bucks instead 60

viking97:
i get what your saying here but i get a new game like every 2 months so i don't want to uy something i'll beat then again sometime in the next. i'm as big a fan of storytelling in games as any, but when thats the only hook i'd rather get a live action movie which cost 30 bucks instead 60

Yer thats fair enough, and i understand myself. Ive pre ordered Battlefield Bad Company 2 and m sure ill get red dead redemption as well so im not sure where ill get the money for this for a little while.

But my point was people saying that games like this should not sell well and thus never get made again which i think its a stupidly narrow view of gaming. Im sure the games that they might love like FPS's like Modern warfare 2 or RPG's like mass effect (which i also love) will keep getting made... they have been incredibly successful so this type of game is no threat to them not getting made so i dont see why so many people are against this type of game even being made.

After spending a nice afternoon's worth of playing my rental copy of "Heavy Rain", it glitched something hardcore, causing me to be unable to login to PSN, and unable to play the game itself because "the trophy registration did not complete." David Cage and his little game sucked that much. EDIT: Never mind, that ended up being something else. The rest of my comment I still stand by.

I couldn't believe the mess of a game I was playing: a meandering, senseless plot that was as uninspired as it was stupid (mind you, the plot was supposed to be the selling point), a control scheme that felt dated by PS1 standards (the decent use of the right analog stick notwithstanding), and annoying load screens that thought we needed to get extreme close-ups of the characters' faces, the only thing that kept me playing was the perverse curiousity of how far Cage was willing to go to insult his audience. I have a long list of instances in my head but I'm just going to sum it up with the following (MINOR SPOILERS):

The de facto main character, Ethan, is an idiot, and the game enables him to be one. Throughout the course of the plot, he's only allowed to do things that show over and over that he's dumb (taking his kid to the park when he has periodic blackouts, for instance), which my tolerance for reached critical mass when by the end of his second ripoff-"Saw" test, he had enough clues to go, "Oh, I know where my son is" (I figured it out, anyway...), or at least to take what he had to the police, and they could have figured it out (honestly, it wasn't that much of a challenge). But, we're not given that option in game, oh no, Ethan goes to the third quest, and has to sacrifice something to get a clue, though it turns out the clue was under the table in the very room he was in all along...and we were never given an option to just simply look (well, it could have been lost in the choice portion, it was hard to tell what was on those, since they kept spiraling in and out of view for no real reason). Then again, since his son was an annoying shit, maybe he preferred doing this to actually getting the kid back.

Neesa:
While reading page after page of people spewing the same shit like "I'M NOT GETTING THIS GAME CAUSE", it's just goes to show the level of maturity and mentality level that some gamers have. Everyone thinks they're a freakin' critic and that their opinion is Bible. But it seems that majority of the people in this thread haven't even played the game. They're going by hearsay and that is one of the most ignorant things you can possibly do.

I remember another game called, hmm.. Bayonetta, that everyone was trashing before the game came out. And hot damn, that game did well in sales and ratings. And it was damn awesome to play. Button masher or not, it was still a sweet ass game to play. Or how many movies, songs, games, (ffs) food you heard were gonna be "terrible" but you played/watched/listen/ate it and you actually liked it? I bet there's a number of things out there that you had a different opinion on before you tried it.

How about you guys get off YOUR pretentious douchebaggery high horses and try it (if you have a PS3). That's why they still have game rental places so people can TRY the game instead of talking bullshit about it cause they heard it from their friends or on a website. If you tried it and still didn't like it, at least you can give a valid arguement. If you don't/won't/didn't, then truth be told, you really have no say in it.

Sorry, I just hate seeing people spew useless bullshit that they can't even back up with a valid arguement.

I would just like to say, well said.

If everyones gona troll it because its different, then that is quite telling of the gaming demographic, and raises questions as to just how mature the gaming market really is. The trouble is, if the market remains overly conservative and hostle towards change it is just going to drive the industry, which serves to supply consumer demand, into creating mindless replicas of the same games, stunting any creativity and innovation in the industry and driving it into the ground. I don't actually think that conservative gamers will kill the gaming industry, but it will not do the industry any good- any industry needs to evolve and adapt to survive, and thats what the gaming industry should be doing by making new games like Heavy Rain. So, i know what the OP is driving at, and i recall Movie Bob, in a video release detailing the rise fall and ressurection of the comic book movement, draw a slightly unsettiling parralel with what might later befall the gaming industry.

For these reasons i feel i ought to buy Heavy Rain, after all i love a good compelling story line, but there is something holding me back. If Heavy Rain was a movie its not something i would not really consider seeing. I've always preffered films and games with an element of fantasy (like The Matrix, LOTR, Blade, Assains creed, WOW etc) or violence (MW2, Saving Private Ryan, We Were Soldiers etc) Heavy Rain does not seem to relate to either of these things, which no doubt many other gamers are interested in. Rather, as the author says, it relates to mental illness, crime and relationships- these things are quite unfamiler to gamers, nor something we are interested in, and while i appeciate the risks that the developers have made, i don't think it would pay off.

If i were the running the development of Heavy Rain i would have kept the same gameplay style but shifted it into a setting, and related it to themes, that are more familer to gamers. Perhaps taking it into a semi-fantasy akin to the Blade movies or The Matrix, with the kind of writing similar to the TV series 24. I would probably slip in a bit of a shooting mecanics, different to conventinal FPS, so its compatable with the choice-driven gameplay- something like that.

I will definitly be interested in trying the demo version, although the problem i think will be that a demo version can not do justice to the games main selling point, the story driven action. This desicion i must make wherever to buy it or not will probably be plaguing me all year, the problem is that, with the cost of games these days, being at least 40, you carn't afford to take risks when buying them. For a final note, i applaud what the game developers have done, its a step in the right direction, i just don't think they have made that step quite right.

So when does the check clear? Because this review was clearly bought.

This game is basically a throwback to most of the failures of the FMV era and makes almost every mistake made back then as well. And let's talk about that "awesome" story; the narrative hook doesn't take place until two hours into the game.

TWO FRIGGIN HOURS!

That's bad pacing by any stretch of the imagination, if it were a film the director would've been strung up by the producer from the mike boom as a warning to his replacement.

Sadly_awake:
Should have it in a few hours cant wait. I personally think anyone that has a PS3 and thinks of this game as a QTE movie and is not buying is just scared of new things.Xenophobes
Anyways I'm waiting for Yahtzee to review it, It will be interesting to hear what he thinks of it.

Same here. I recently finished my first play through of the game and I like it. But I'm also quite eager to hear Yahtzee's take on it.

I know that he's repeatedly blasted both developers and consumers alike for not wanting to take risks. And Heavy Rain certainly takes a lot of risks. So I naturally wonder what Yahtzee will think of it.

SamElliot'sMustache:
After spending a nice afternoon's worth of playing my rental copy of "Heavy Rain", it glitched something hardcore, causing me to be unable to login to PSN, and unable to play the game itself because "the trophy registration did not complete." David Cage and his little game sucked that much. EDIT: Never mind, that ended up being something else. The rest of my comment I still stand by.

I couldn't believe the mess of a game I was playing: a meandering, senseless plot that was as uninspired as it was stupid (mind you, the plot was supposed to be the selling point), a control scheme that felt dated by PS1 standards (the decent use of the right analog stick notwithstanding), and annoying load screens that thought we needed to get extreme close-ups of the characters' faces, the only thing that kept me playing was the perverse curiousity of how far Cage was willing to go to insult his audience. I have a long list of instances in my head but I'm just going to sum it up with the following (MINOR SPOILERS):

The de facto main character, Ethan, is an idiot, and the game enables him to be one. Throughout the course of the plot, he's only allowed to do things that show over and over that he's dumb (taking his kid to the park when he has periodic blackouts, for instance), which my tolerance for reached critical mass when by the end of his second ripoff-"Saw" test, he had enough clues to go, "Oh, I know where my son is" (I figured it out, anyway...), or at least to take what he had to the police, and they could have figured it out (honestly, it wasn't that much of a challenge). But, we're not given that option in game, oh no, Ethan goes to the third quest, and has to sacrifice something to get a clue, though it turns out the clue was under the table in the very room he was in all along...and we were never given an option to just simply look (well, it could have been lost in the choice portion, it was hard to tell what was on those, since they kept spiraling in and out of view for no real reason). Then again, since his son was an annoying shit, maybe he preferred doing this to actually getting the kid back.

So he shouldn't spend time with his son because he has had blackouts? That's a slippery slope right there. In that same vein why should he do anything other than check himself into a mental hospital or something? Why go for a walk, drive a car, engage in recreational activity, or go to work? Because the risk of having a blackout would be the same no matter what. Life is full of risks. Every time you chose to do something there is always a risk that one way or another something will not go the way you like. But if we allow ourselves to be weighed down by these risks than what would the point of living in such a way? What kind of life would that be? Ethan wanted to rebuild his life after the death of his first son. Who can really blame him for that?

So you figured out the location after the second trial? I doubt that because the player is never really made to be familiar with the exact geography of the city that the characters are in. At least not in terms of names and addresses. And it's established that the smaller the amount of letters Ethan has, the more possibilities there are in terms of places to look. And Ethan didn't want to risk wasting time by looking all over the city. And in that same vein wasting time looking for the exact location of each of the clues didn't seem particularly favorable either. Passing the trials was the most efficient and reliable way of getting the clues and finding the child. And that particular clue wasn't under the table, it was under the floor beneath the table. Not a particularly obvious place to look. And as for going to the police, that issue gets directly addressed at one point. Assuming that Ethan is able to successfully elude the authorities the first time, Madison and Ethan address the issue if he chooses to confide in her. This issue is also touched upon if he gets arrested the first time. And besides, his initial encounter with Lieutenant Blake was anything but encouraging.

Furthermore, it would seem that only competent and reliable person in that entire police station was Norman Jayden, and his control over the situation in the department was limited at best. Both Lieutenant Blake and Captain Perry are both anything but trustworthy and reliable.

A1:

SamElliot'sMustache:
After spending a nice afternoon's worth of playing my rental copy of "Heavy Rain", it glitched something hardcore, causing me to be unable to login to PSN, and unable to play the game itself because "the trophy registration did not complete." David Cage and his little game sucked that much. EDIT: Never mind, that ended up being something else. The rest of my comment I still stand by.

I couldn't believe the mess of a game I was playing: a meandering, senseless plot that was as uninspired as it was stupid (mind you, the plot was supposed to be the selling point), a control scheme that felt dated by PS1 standards (the decent use of the right analog stick notwithstanding), and annoying load screens that thought we needed to get extreme close-ups of the characters' faces, the only thing that kept me playing was the perverse curiousity of how far Cage was willing to go to insult his audience. I have a long list of instances in my head but I'm just going to sum it up with the following (MINOR SPOILERS):

The de facto main character, Ethan, is an idiot, and the game enables him to be one. Throughout the course of the plot, he's only allowed to do things that show over and over that he's dumb (taking his kid to the park when he has periodic blackouts, for instance), which my tolerance for reached critical mass when by the end of his second ripoff-"Saw" test, he had enough clues to go, "Oh, I know where my son is" (I figured it out, anyway...), or at least to take what he had to the police, and they could have figured it out (honestly, it wasn't that much of a challenge). But, we're not given that option in game, oh no, Ethan goes to the third quest, and has to sacrifice something to get a clue, though it turns out the clue was under the table in the very room he was in all along...and we were never given an option to just simply look (well, it could have been lost in the choice portion, it was hard to tell what was on those, since they kept spiraling in and out of view for no real reason). Then again, since his son was an annoying shit, maybe he preferred doing this to actually getting the kid back.

So he shouldn't spend time with his son because he has had blackouts? That's a slippery slope right there. In that same vein why should he do anything other than check himself into a mental hospital or something? Why go for a walk, drive a car, engage in recreational activity, or go to work? Because the risk of having a blackout would be the same no matter what. Life is full of risks. Every time you chose to do something there is always a risk that one way or another something will not go the way you like. But if we allow ourselves to be weighed down by these risks than what would the point of living in such a way? What kind of life would that be? Ethan wanted to rebuild his life after the death of his first son. Who can really blame him for that?

So you figured out the location after the second trial? I doubt that because the player is never really made to be familiar with the exact geography of the city that the characters are in. At least not in terms of names and addresses. And it's established that the smaller the amount of letters Ethan has, the more possibilities there are in terms of places to look. And Ethan didn't want to risk wasting time by looking all over the city. And in that same vein wasting time looking for the exact location of each of the clues didn't seem particularly favorable either. Passing the trials was the most efficient and reliable way of getting the clues and finding the child. And that particular clue wasn't under the table, it was under the floor beneath the table. Not a particularly obvious place to look. And as for going to the police, that issue gets directly addressed at one point. Assuming that Ethan is able to successfully elude the authorities the first time, Madison and Ethan address the issue if he chooses to confide in her. This issue is also touched upon if he gets arrested the first time. And besides, his initial encounter with Lieutenant Blake was anything but encouraging.

Furthermore, it would seem that only competent and reliable person in that entire police station was Norman Jayden, and his control over the situation in the department was limited at best. Both Lieutenant Blake and Captain Perry are both anything but trustworthy and reliable.

I'll give you the first point, but he doesn't take any precautions whatsoever? That just seems a little...irresponsible.

And I did figure it out, because I pretty much figured that the city was New York, and the address was "825 _______ _oose_elt Ro_" (and I think there were a few other letters where the blanks were) by the time I got to the second one. While I'm not overly familiar with New York, I can figure out the "_oose_elt Ro__," and I figured a native of the city would be able to if they had so much as heard of "Wheel of Fortune," or had a map. As far as the untrustworthy police, in mine, Ethan gets caught, and they ask him over and over to tell them where the kid is, and he just goes "I'm the only one that can save him" like he's playing super-hero. If he really wanted to save the kid, he'd have said "This cell phone I've got here? That's spelling out the location. The killer's giving me clues if I do these tests." Even if only the FBI guy believed him (which he already was), that would have been enough.

I'll also agree with you about the third point, I mostly remembered him screaming and the GPS saying "under the table" which made me go, "Really?! And you didn't give me the option to look in the first place?" By that point, I was already annoyed by lots of things in the game, both plot and mechanics related, so I probably just took it as another bit of stupidity to go along with the el blando storyline and characters (Shelby was the only interesting one, and that was because of the asthma, which was quickly forgotten), the clunky camera, controls, and plot twists (especially that clunker of a "big reveal", which they had to cheat the players to pull off), and the completely arbitrary 'girl' character.

Speaking of which, for all of David Cage's talk of "mature storytelling," his entire mission statement is undone by her very presence alone (and I could argue the entire game is only pretending to be mature in the same way that late night movies on Cinemax pretend to, but I'll stick with just this). Her introduction serves no function to the plot other than to show off some T&A before she gets arbitrarily dumped into Ethan's quest, and every scene where she's not tending to his wounds seems to revolve around the fact that she's got lady-parts: the creepy hotel clerk, the psycho doctor who seems to be very Freudian with that drill, the 'strip-tease' scene (well, maybe, Cage said he was aiming for discomfort, but when afterwards you can get her to think "You go girl!", it makes me wonder...), and the "Indigo Prophecy"-esque attempt to shoehorn a relationship between her and Ethan (thankfully optional). Seems like cheap and cynical padding to me, anyway.

SamElliot'sMustache:

A1:

SamElliot'sMustache:
After spending a nice afternoon's worth of playing my rental copy of "Heavy Rain", it glitched something hardcore, causing me to be unable to login to PSN, and unable to play the game itself because "the trophy registration did not complete." David Cage and his little game sucked that much. EDIT: Never mind, that ended up being something else. The rest of my comment I still stand by.

I couldn't believe the mess of a game I was playing: a meandering, senseless plot that was as uninspired as it was stupid (mind you, the plot was supposed to be the selling point), a control scheme that felt dated by PS1 standards (the decent use of the right analog stick notwithstanding), and annoying load screens that thought we needed to get extreme close-ups of the characters' faces, the only thing that kept me playing was the perverse curiousity of how far Cage was willing to go to insult his audience. I have a long list of instances in my head but I'm just going to sum it up with the following (MINOR SPOILERS):

The de facto main character, Ethan, is an idiot, and the game enables him to be one. Throughout the course of the plot, he's only allowed to do things that show over and over that he's dumb (taking his kid to the park when he has periodic blackouts, for instance), which my tolerance for reached critical mass when by the end of his second ripoff-"Saw" test, he had enough clues to go, "Oh, I know where my son is" (I figured it out, anyway...), or at least to take what he had to the police, and they could have figured it out (honestly, it wasn't that much of a challenge). But, we're not given that option in game, oh no, Ethan goes to the third quest, and has to sacrifice something to get a clue, though it turns out the clue was under the table in the very room he was in all along...and we were never given an option to just simply look (well, it could have been lost in the choice portion, it was hard to tell what was on those, since they kept spiraling in and out of view for no real reason). Then again, since his son was an annoying shit, maybe he preferred doing this to actually getting the kid back.

So he shouldn't spend time with his son because he has had blackouts? That's a slippery slope right there. In that same vein why should he do anything other than check himself into a mental hospital or something? Why go for a walk, drive a car, engage in recreational activity, or go to work? Because the risk of having a blackout would be the same no matter what. Life is full of risks. Every time you chose to do something there is always a risk that one way or another something will not go the way you like. But if we allow ourselves to be weighed down by these risks than what would the point of living in such a way? What kind of life would that be? Ethan wanted to rebuild his life after the death of his first son. Who can really blame him for that?

So you figured out the location after the second trial? I doubt that because the player is never really made to be familiar with the exact geography of the city that the characters are in. At least not in terms of names and addresses. And it's established that the smaller the amount of letters Ethan has, the more possibilities there are in terms of places to look. And Ethan didn't want to risk wasting time by looking all over the city. And in that same vein wasting time looking for the exact location of each of the clues didn't seem particularly favorable either. Passing the trials was the most efficient and reliable way of getting the clues and finding the child. And that particular clue wasn't under the table, it was under the floor beneath the table. Not a particularly obvious place to look. And as for going to the police, that issue gets directly addressed at one point. Assuming that Ethan is able to successfully elude the authorities the first time, Madison and Ethan address the issue if he chooses to confide in her. This issue is also touched upon if he gets arrested the first time. And besides, his initial encounter with Lieutenant Blake was anything but encouraging.

Furthermore, it would seem that only competent and reliable person in that entire police station was Norman Jayden, and his control over the situation in the department was limited at best. Both Lieutenant Blake and Captain Perry are both anything but trustworthy and reliable.

I'll give you the first point, but he doesn't take any precautions whatsoever? That just seems a little...irresponsible.

And I did figure it out, because I pretty much figured that the city was New York, and the address was "825 _______ _oose_elt Ro_" (and I think there were a few other letters where the blanks were) by the time I got to the second one. While I'm not overly familiar with New York, I can figure out the "_oose_elt Ro__," and I figured a native of the city would be able to if they had so much as heard of "Wheel of Fortune," or had a map. As far as the untrustworthy police, in mine, Ethan gets caught, and they ask him over and over to tell them where the kid is, and he just goes "I'm the only one that can save him" like he's playing super-hero. If he really wanted to save the kid, he'd have said "This cell phone I've got here? That's spelling out the location. The killer's giving me clues if I do these tests." Even if only the FBI guy believed him (which he already was), that would have been enough.

I'll also agree with you about the third point, I mostly remembered him screaming and the GPS saying "under the table" which made me go, "Really?! And you didn't give me the option to look in the first place?" By that point, I was already annoyed by lots of things in the game, both plot and mechanics related, so I probably just took it as another bit of stupidity to go along with the el blando storyline and characters (Shelby was the only interesting one, and that was because of the asthma, which was quickly forgotten), the clunky camera, controls, and plot twists (especially that clunker of a "big reveal", which they had to cheat the players to pull off), and the completely arbitrary 'girl' character.

Speaking of which, for all of David Cage's talk of "mature storytelling," his entire mission statement is undone by her very presence alone (and I could argue the entire game is only pretending to be mature in the same way that late night movies on Cinemax pretend to, but I'll stick with just this). Her introduction serves no function to the plot other than to show off some T&A before she gets arbitrarily dumped into Ethan's quest, and every scene where she's not tending to his wounds seems to revolve around the fact that she's got lady-parts: the creepy hotel clerk, the psycho doctor who seems to be very Freudian with that drill, the 'strip-tease' scene (well, maybe, Cage said he was aiming for discomfort, but when afterwards you can get her to think "You go girl!", it makes me wonder...), and the "Indigo Prophecy"-esque attempt to shoehorn a relationship between her and Ethan (thankfully optional). Seems like cheap and cynical padding to me, anyway.

Taking precautions is a kind of a slippery slope too because it seems to draw one closer to paranoid life-nullification territory. But even so I kind of see what you mean. But I wouldn't use the word irresponsible. I think a more appropriate word would be careless. Ethan is a bit on the careless side. That's pretty much why his first son died. But even so it's kind of hard to hold it against him because he was really beating himself up over it and suffering with guilt.

And I already pointed out that even with those letters there were still multiple locations that fit. This is definitively established when Ethan is working with that GPS in the cab. Ethan found the idea of wasting time by looking all over the city to be totally unappealing, and understandably so.

And playing super-hero? Are you serious? He was simply a concerned, loving, and guilt-ridden father trying to save his son. And he was convinced that he was the only one who could. That may seem implausible at first glance but Ethan did have some relatively plausible reasons for believing so. As I said those trials were the most efficient and reliable way of finding his son and they were meant for him and him alone. For him to go through those trials is what the killer wanted. Defying the killer's will at that early point would have been very dangerous. And besides, Blake was corrupt, incompetent, and probably borderline psychotic and Perry wasn't much better. Whose to say they would have even believed him even if Ethan had actually told them about the clues? Blake was perfectly content to simply beat the answers out of Ethan, answers that he didn't have. And Captain Perry was perfectly alright with that. As I indicated before, Ethan's encounters with Blake were anything but encouraging. Jayden was the only one in that department that Ethan could have genuinely counted on. And it was obvious that Jayden had little control over what went on in that department. He was just there for support. And besides, there was still the issue of defying the killer's will at that early point.

"Ethan Mars genuinely believes that only he can save his son. What if he's right?"- Norman Jayden

Arbitrary "girl" character? Arbitrarily dumped?

NOT QUITE. She has a stake in the Origami Killer case, being a journalist. She also has insomnia and as such is only able to sleep in motels. And the motel in question is the one that she goes to on a regular basis. So she didn't just go there by coincidence or on a whim. And it is established that she recognized Ethan early on and one of the reasons that she helps him and stays around him is because she wants to cover the story.

But of course it's also indicated early on that she's also attracted to him by the fact that she has an opportunity to peak at him while he's taking a shower. This is also strongly indicated if Ethan rebuffs her later in the game.

And she also admits that she was moved by his love for and desire to save his son, which is perfectly plausible and understandable.

And I know exactly what you're talking about with regard to the romantic relationship in Indigo Prophecy. It did seem at least somewhat forced. But before I get into that let me point something out. Forming romantic relationships between characters who have met for the first time is a tricky feat for movies because of the limited time that they're allowed. And because both Indigo Prophecy and Heavy Rain try to emulate movies they naturally have to grapple with the same issue. What often happens, and not just in movies, is two characters meeting and having an initial physical attraction, and then said attraction leading to an at least somewhat impulsive (and probably hormonally-charged) physical encounter, and then said physical encounter leading to emotional attachment. This seems to be the formula that Indigo Prophecy and Heavy Rain go for. But even so Indigo Prophecy doesn't really seem to do a particularly good job with it.

The reasons for this are that it happened somewhat too soon after Carla and Lucas started spending time together and Carla making a definitive confession of love that came before said physical encounter and not after. The only way for all of this to be plausible is if we assume that there was more stuff that happened with the two of them off-camera. Like there was more content there originally but it was cut out for some reason.

Heavy Rain on the other hand does a much better job with the formula. The Ethan and Madison spend a decent amount of time together before said physical encounter (or lack thereof if the player wishes it). Madison has a perfectly plausible and reasonably realistic rationale for sticking with him. And Madison merely says that she's THINKS she's STARTING to fall in love. And this is AFTER said physical encounter, not BEFORE. It's much more plausible and realistic.

And while it may be unfortunate, in life people often do respond to and treat women differently than men. This would seem to be especially true in the case of men (like the motel clerk) and even more so in the case of unscrupulous men. And the Origami killer is definitively shown to have connections with the local criminal underworld which is naturally full of unscrupulous men like the doctor, Mad Jack, and Paco Mendez. However since the killer has said connections it is perfectly reasonable to play up that angle and search through the criminal underworld for the killer. This is the path that Madison chooses so she naturally encounters unscrupulous men who are inclined to treat women differently than men, namely Paco Mendez. And I'm not so sure if the doctor is all that good an example. He seems to attack Madison more because she's snooping around and getting too close to his dirty secrets, although he may have seen the fact that she was an attractive woman to be an added bonus. But it's still worth noting that it's pointed out that the doctor also had the corpse of a male police officer in his basement. So apparently the good doctor swung both ways so to speak.

So ultimately being a woman in the kind of general situation she is in is a disadvantage. It's unfortunate but it's also plausible and realistic.

And as David Cage said, the sex and nudity are not there for there own sake. It all has some kind of context within the story, atmosphere, or overall premise of the game. The part with Madison in a tank top and underwear and being attacked by burglars is part of a nightmare sequence for her. And from what I've been able to gather people are often undressed in their dreams. I've actually known people who have described a dream of theirs as having that characteristic. But back to Madison's nightmare. This nightmare is linked to her insomnia and her insomnia is the reason that she goes to the motel. And it's not some random motel that she chooses on a whim, it's the one that she always goes to when she needs to rest.

And Madison is just as significant a character as any other. This is exemplified by that very important and significant hospital scene that she takes part in late in the game as well as when she encounters the origami killer for the first time. If she survives that encounter she not only has the opportunity to play a significant role in the final scene but also to inform other characters of what she's learned. Her role in the story may be different from the other characters like say Norman Jayden for example. But it's just as significant. And besides, Origami obviously plays a very important role in the story and Madison is the only character who gets a chance to actually fold Origami figures.

I'll admit that Heavy Rain often pushes against the boundaries of plausibility but it never actually crosses the line like other games do such as Indigo Prophecy or Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2.

I am well aware that Heavy Rain has been accused of actually not being mature, mainly because of some of Madison's scenes. But I would say that such accusations don't hold much weight, if any. As I've already demonstrated I can just as easily argue against them. It largely seems to be simply a matter of perception. It's been said that evil is in the eye of the beholder, and I would say that that's very much the kind of thing that's going on here.

I've also heard the accusation that Heavy is not original because it does things that have been done before in books, movies, and television. But I would say such accusations are both misguided and largely irrelevant because Heavy Rain is not a movie or a television show or a book. It's a video game. And while at least some of the things that it does may be relatively common in the world of books, movies, and television, this is the world of video games we're talking about. These same things are not common in the world of video games. I would definitely agree with Christian Ward that Heavy Rain is a very important game because it brings things that are new and uncommon in world of video games to the world of video games. It may be true that Heavy Rain might not do too well as a movie, or book, or television show. But as a video game (which is what it is) it is a truly remarkable achievement.

But back to the issue of maturity. Even if the game does have a few lapses with regard to maturity (and that's a very big IF) it's not fair to judge the whole package based on that.

And no matter how you look at it Heavy Rain still does a much better job with the issue of maturity than most, if not all, games currently out on the market, especially mainstream games. The claim of most games to the mature label comes from excessive violence or gratuitous sexual content. And Heavy Rain has the proven ability to evoke feelings in the player other than "wow that's sexy" or "wow it's really fun to kill that or destroy this". Provided of course that it may not have succeeded for you personally but I also get the distinct impression that you are probably in the minority on this one. Critical reception of the game has been predominantly positive, and predominantly quite positive at that. This also seems to be the case with regard to consumer reception. For example as of this posting the game has gotten 89 favorable reviews (most of which are 5 stars) and only 21 critical ones on Amazon.com. On top of that the game has also been selling quite well, quite possibly far exceeding expectations. There is even reportedly a shortage of copies of the game going on right now in the UK.

A1:
Arbitrary "girl" character? Arbitrarily dumped?

NOT QUITE. She has a stake in the Origami Killer case, being a journalist. She also has insomnia and as such is only able to sleep in motels. And the motel in question is the one that she goes to on a regular basis. So she didn't just go there by coincidence or on a whim. And it is established that she recognized Ethan early on and one of the reasons that she helps him and stays around him is because she wants to cover the story.

But of course it's also indicated early on that she's also attracted to him by the fact that she has an opportunity to peak at him while he's taking a shower. This is also strongly indicated if Ethan rebuffs her later in the game.

And she also admits that she was moved by his love for and desire to save his son, which is perfectly plausible and understandable.

And I know exactly what you're talking about with regard to the romantic relationship in Indigo Prophecy. It did seem at least somewhat forced. But before I get into that let me point something out. Forming romantic relationships between characters who have met for the first time is a tricky feat for movies because of the limited time that they're allowed. And because both Indigo Prophecy and Heavy Rain try to emulate movies they naturally have to grapple with the same issue. What often happens, and not just in movies, is two characters meeting and having an initial physical attraction, and then said attraction leading to an at least somewhat impulsive (and probably hormonally-charged) physical encounter, and then said physical encounter leading to emotional attachment. This seems to be the formula that Indigo Prophecy and Heavy Rain go for. But even so Indigo Prophecy doesn't really seem to do a particularly good job with it.

The reasons for this are that it happened somewhat too soon after Carla and Lucas started spending time together and Carla making a definitive confession of love that came before said physical encounter and not after. The only way for all of this to be plausible is if we assume that there was more stuff that happened with the two of them off-camera. Like there was more content there originally but it was cut out for some reason.

Heavy Rain on the other hand does a much better job with the formula. The Ethan and Madison spend a decent amount of time together before said physical encounter (or lack thereof if the player wishes it). Madison has a perfectly plausible and reasonably realistic rationale for sticking with him. And Madison merely says that she's THINKS she's STARTING to fall in love. And this is AFTER said physical encounter, not BEFORE. It's much more plausible and realistic.

I really have to disagree on a large chunk of this, unless Madison is lying to the players in her thoughts (which, considering how Scott's plotline develops, I guess is possible), she a) doesn't investigate the Origami Killer until after Ethan tells her about his son, b) does seem to arrive at the motel by coincidence (as she and the clerk seem unfamiliar with each other), and c) not only doesn't know who Ethan is, but when prompted to, she'll ask if he's in trouble with the mob rather than the police (after the second test), as if she has no knowledge of what's going on, therefore she had no connection prior to her arrival. Which could have been interesting by itself (case in point: Brad Pitt's character in "Snatch", having no clue as to what the rest of these people are doing, and all he wants is money for a new trailer for his mother, and his actions have the effect of a wrecking ball on the lives of all the other main characters). Madison's sole motivation up until the third test was to get some sleep (again, unless she was lying in her thoughts), but that's never really addressed. Does her helping Ethan cause her to lose even more sleep? Cage certainly doesn't care if that's the case. She supposedly becomes wanted after helping him escape, but doesn't hide from the police when they show up at the hotel, even though Blake saw her face and knows she helped Ethan.

Furthermore, her attempt at romance still fails to be realistic precisely because she spends all of a few minutes with him up to that point, not counting when he's unconscious or when they're running from the police, and liking someone because they'e trying to save their son usually doesn't lead to attempting to jam one's tongue down another's throat (at least, not in my neck of the woods).

And while it may be unfortunate, in life people often do respond to and treat women differently than men. This would seem to be especially true in the case of men (like the motel clerk) and even more so in the case of unscrupulous men. And the Origami killer is definitively shown to have connections with the local criminal underworld which is naturally full of unscrupulous men like the doctor, Mad Jack, and Paco Mendez. However since the killer has said connections it is perfectly reasonable to play up that angle and search through the criminal underworld for the killer. This is the path that Madison chooses so she naturally encounters unscrupulous men who are inclined to treat women differently than men, namely Paco Mendez. And I'm not so sure if the doctor is all that good an example. He seems to attack Madison more because she's snooping around and getting too close to his dirty secrets, although he may have seen the fact that she was an attractive woman to be an added bonus. But it's still worth noting that it's pointed out that the doctor also had the corpse of a male police officer in his basement. So apparently the good doctor swung both ways so to speak.

So ultimately being a woman in the kind of general situation she is in is a disadvantage. It's unfortunate but it's also plausible and realistic.

And as David Cage said, the sex and nudity are not there for there own sake. It all has some kind of context within the story, atmosphere, or overall premise of the game. The part with Madison in a tank top and underwear and being attacked by burglars is part of a nightmare sequence for her. And from what I've been able to gather people are often undressed in their dreams. I've actually known people who have described a dream of theirs as having that characteristic. But back to Madison's nightmare. This nightmare is linked to her insomnia and her insomnia is the reason that she goes to the motel. And it's not some random motel that she chooses on a whim, it's the one that she always goes to when she needs to rest.

Fair enough, but it's hard to be impressed by any of this when he clearly goes for disturbing near-rape to "funny" fake orgasms in the span of a couple minutes (yeah, I pressed that button, thinking it would be something completely different based on the context that scene took place in).

And Madison is just as significant a character as any other. This is exemplified by that very important and significant hospital scene that she takes part in late in the game as well as when she encounters the origami killer for the first time. If she survives that encounter she not only has the opportunity to play a significant role in the final scene but also to inform other characters of what she's learned. Her role in the story may be different from the other characters like say Norman Jayden for example. But it's just as significant. And besides, Origami obviously plays a very important role in the story and Madison is the only character who gets a chance to actually fold Origami figures.

Just for note, I didn't say she was insignificant, only that she was arbitrary. Her role could have been filled with a magic-talking labradoodle and still had largely the same impact. Like I pointed out above, she couldn't have had any previous connection to the events in the game unless she was lying to herself in her own thoughts to intentionally mislead the players (unreliable narrator only works when the lie effects the narrator as much as the audience), in which case it's bullshit. Jayden, Ethan, Scott (though he does cross over into similar bullshit territory), they all had active reasons from the start to be involved in the plot. Madison's was one of pure chance, who had nothing at stake. She might have had an important role in the plot, but that just means that she sticks out like a gangrenous thumb, rather than a sore one.

I'll admit that Heavy Rain often pushes against the boundaries of plausibility but it never actually crosses the line like other games do such as Indigo Prophecy or Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2.

I am well aware that Heavy Rain has been accused of actually not being mature, mainly because of some of Madison's scenes. But I would say that such accusations don't hold much weight, if any. As I've already demonstrated I can just as easily argue against them. It largely seems to be simply a matter of perception. It's been said that evil is in the eye of the beholder, and I would say that that's very much the kind of thing that's going on here.

I'll agree about perception, but it's hard to see maturity in a game that goes from one extreme of 100 Acre Wood storybook existence to cartoonishly down-and-dirty "Saw", and then back to the storybook (and it's far more difficult to get the slightly imperfect endings than the best one, because you'd have to resist the gamer instinct to not press buttons when prompted). And look again at the strip-tease scene. In addition to the fake-orgasming she uses for 'hilarious' effect, Madison then struts her way out of the club, thinking "You go girl!" While an empowering message, it doesn't necessarily fit a scene that we're clearly supposed to be disturbed by, since Madison herself doesn't feel threatened once she's out of that room. The thought never crosses her mind that Paco could alert the guard afterwards, or that she might be caught.

Look at 'Taxi Driver,' 'The Godfather,' or even 'The Dark Knight.' All three deal with mature, gritty subject matter and themes, just as 'Heavy Rain' does, but the dangers in those movies are always present. "Heavy Rain" only has the danger in isolated bursts, and then it's gone with a slap and a quip. Jayden's withdrawal won't become crippling (like real withdrawal does); Shelby won't have an asthma attack in the middle of a fistfight; and Ethan won't have another blackout. Those dangers that were set up so meticulously never pay off, and you know they won't, because they get forgotten about at the earliest convenience (okay, to be fair, Jayden's addiction is a recurring problem, but only conveniently happens when he's alone).

I've also heard the accusation that Heavy is not original because it does things that have been done before in books, movies, and television. But I would say such accusations are both misguided and largely irrelevant because Heavy Rain is not a movie or a television show or a book. It's a video game. And while at least some of the things that it does may be relatively common in the world of books, movies, and television, this is the world of video games we're talking about. These same things are not common in the world of video games. I would definitely agree with Christian Ward that Heavy Rain is a very important game because it brings things that are new and uncommon in world of video games to the world of video games. It may be true that Heavy Rain might not do too well as a movie, or book, or television show. But as a video game (which is what it is) it is a truly remarkable achievement.

Normally, I would agree with this sentiment, but the plot of "Heavy Rain" builds like David Cage cut and pasted scripts from various movies together to fit every single cliche he could. Premise of "Nick of Time" dropped in on "Seven" with the gimmicky tests of "Saw" interspersed, and then a reveal that might as well have been pulled from "Blood Work" (the only Clint Eastwood movie I ever regretted seeing). I get what he's going for, but you don't invoke cinema by throwing every possible hook that's ever been used into one plot. That's not a story, that's a gimmick, and a bad one at that.

But back to the issue of maturity. Even if the game does have a few lapses with regard to maturity (and that's a very big IF) it's not fair to judge the whole package based on that.

And no matter how you look at it Heavy Rain still does a much better job with the issue of maturity than most, if not all, games currently out on the market, especially mainstream games. The claim of most games to the mature label comes from excessive violence or gratuitous sexual content. And Heavy Rain has the proven ability to evoke feelings in the player other than "wow that's sexy" or "wow it's really fun to kill that or destroy this". Provided of course that it may not have succeeded for you personally but I also get the distinct impression that you are probably in the minority on this one. Critical reception of the game has been predominantly positive, and predominantly quite positive at that. This also seems to be the case with regard to consumer reception. For example as of this posting the game has gotten 89 favorable reviews (most of which are 5 stars) and only 21 critical ones on Amazon.com. On top of that the game has also been selling quite well, quite possibly far exceeding expectations. There is even reportedly a shortage of copies of the game going on right now in the UK

I'd be careful about invoking majority/minority on things like this. After all, the majority of the planet seems to love reality TV, McDonald's, and Wal-Mart, and game critics are prone to not challenge the big releases very much.

But, the reason I'm ragging on "Heavy Rain" is not because of a few small portions. I'm generally not that nitpicky. The reason I am is because the whole thing comes across as slick and superficial, and largely uninterested in dealing with its themes in a manner that is actually mature (for reasons I've already detailed above), but rather pointing at situations and going "See? This is mature?" It's just as bad as all those games that use gratuitous violence and nudity just for the "M" label, but now packaged as "Art!"

I can't play it, no longer is a PC version planned.

SamElliot'sMustache:

A1:
Arbitrary "girl" character? Arbitrarily dumped?

NOT QUITE. She has a stake in the Origami Killer case, being a journalist. She also has insomnia and as such is only able to sleep in motels. And the motel in question is the one that she goes to on a regular basis. So she didn't just go there by coincidence or on a whim. And it is established that she recognized Ethan early on and one of the reasons that she helps him and stays around him is because she wants to cover the story.

But of course it's also indicated early on that she's also attracted to him by the fact that she has an opportunity to peak at him while he's taking a shower. This is also strongly indicated if Ethan rebuffs her later in the game.

And she also admits that she was moved by his love for and desire to save his son, which is perfectly plausible and understandable.

And I know exactly what you're talking about with regard to the romantic relationship in Indigo Prophecy. It did seem at least somewhat forced. But before I get into that let me point something out. Forming romantic relationships between characters who have met for the first time is a tricky feat for movies because of the limited time that they're allowed. And because both Indigo Prophecy and Heavy Rain try to emulate movies they naturally have to grapple with the same issue. What often happens, and not just in movies, is two characters meeting and having an initial physical attraction, and then said attraction leading to an at least somewhat impulsive (and probably hormonally-charged) physical encounter, and then said physical encounter leading to emotional attachment. This seems to be the formula that Indigo Prophecy and Heavy Rain go for. But even so Indigo Prophecy doesn't really seem to do a particularly good job with it.

The reasons for this are that it happened somewhat too soon after Carla and Lucas started spending time together and Carla making a definitive confession of love that came before said physical encounter and not after. The only way for all of this to be plausible is if we assume that there was more stuff that happened with the two of them off-camera. Like there was more content there originally but it was cut out for some reason.

Heavy Rain on the other hand does a much better job with the formula. The Ethan and Madison spend a decent amount of time together before said physical encounter (or lack thereof if the player wishes it). Madison has a perfectly plausible and reasonably realistic rationale for sticking with him. And Madison merely says that she's THINKS she's STARTING to fall in love. And this is AFTER said physical encounter, not BEFORE. It's much more plausible and realistic.

I really have to disagree on a large chunk of this, unless Madison is lying to the players in her thoughts (which, considering how Scott's plotline develops, I guess is possible), she a) doesn't investigate the Origami Killer until after Ethan tells her about his son, b) does seem to arrive at the motel by coincidence (as she and the clerk seem unfamiliar with each other), and c) not only doesn't know who Ethan is, but when prompted to, she'll ask if he's in trouble with the mob rather than the police (after the second test), as if she has no knowledge of what's going on, therefore she had no connection prior to her arrival. Which could have been interesting by itself (case in point: Brad Pitt's character in "Snatch", having no clue as to what the rest of these people are doing, and all he wants is money for a new trailer for his mother, and his actions have the effect of a wrecking ball on the lives of all the other main characters). Madison's sole motivation up until the third test was to get some sleep (again, unless she was lying in her thoughts), but that's never really addressed. Does her helping Ethan cause her to lose even more sleep? Cage certainly doesn't care if that's the case. She supposedly becomes wanted after helping him escape, but doesn't hide from the police when they show up at the hotel, even though Blake saw her face and knows she helped Ethan.

Furthermore, her attempt at romance still fails to be realistic precisely because she spends all of a few minutes with him up to that point, not counting when he's unconscious or when they're running from the police, and liking someone because they'e trying to save their son usually doesn't lead to attempting to jam one's tongue down another's throat (at least, not in my neck of the woods).

And while it may be unfortunate, in life people often do respond to and treat women differently than men. This would seem to be especially true in the case of men (like the motel clerk) and even more so in the case of unscrupulous men. And the Origami killer is definitively shown to have connections with the local criminal underworld which is naturally full of unscrupulous men like the doctor, Mad Jack, and Paco Mendez. However since the killer has said connections it is perfectly reasonable to play up that angle and search through the criminal underworld for the killer. This is the path that Madison chooses so she naturally encounters unscrupulous men who are inclined to treat women differently than men, namely Paco Mendez. And I'm not so sure if the doctor is all that good an example. He seems to attack Madison more because she's snooping around and getting too close to his dirty secrets, although he may have seen the fact that she was an attractive woman to be an added bonus. But it's still worth noting that it's pointed out that the doctor also had the corpse of a male police officer in his basement. So apparently the good doctor swung both ways so to speak.

So ultimately being a woman in the kind of general situation she is in is a disadvantage. It's unfortunate but it's also plausible and realistic.

And as David Cage said, the sex and nudity are not there for there own sake. It all has some kind of context within the story, atmosphere, or overall premise of the game. The part with Madison in a tank top and underwear and being attacked by burglars is part of a nightmare sequence for her. And from what I've been able to gather people are often undressed in their dreams. I've actually known people who have described a dream of theirs as having that characteristic. But back to Madison's nightmare. This nightmare is linked to her insomnia and her insomnia is the reason that she goes to the motel. And it's not some random motel that she chooses on a whim, it's the one that she always goes to when she needs to rest.

Fair enough, but it's hard to be impressed by any of this when he clearly goes for disturbing near-rape to "funny" fake orgasms in the span of a couple minutes (yeah, I pressed that button, thinking it would be something completely different based on the context that scene took place in).

And Madison is just as significant a character as any other. This is exemplified by that very important and significant hospital scene that she takes part in late in the game as well as when she encounters the origami killer for the first time. If she survives that encounter she not only has the opportunity to play a significant role in the final scene but also to inform other characters of what she's learned. Her role in the story may be different from the other characters like say Norman Jayden for example. But it's just as significant. And besides, Origami obviously plays a very important role in the story and Madison is the only character who gets a chance to actually fold Origami figures.

Just for note, I didn't say she was insignificant, only that she was arbitrary. Her role could have been filled with a magic-talking labradoodle and still had largely the same impact. Like I pointed out above, she couldn't have had any previous connection to the events in the game unless she was lying to herself in her own thoughts to intentionally mislead the players (unreliable narrator only works when the lie effects the narrator as much as the audience), in which case it's bullshit. Jayden, Ethan, Scott (though he does cross over into similar bullshit territory), they all had active reasons from the start to be involved in the plot. Madison's was one of pure chance, who had nothing at stake. She might have had an important role in the plot, but that just means that she sticks out like a gangrenous thumb, rather than a sore one.

I'll admit that Heavy Rain often pushes against the boundaries of plausibility but it never actually crosses the line like other games do such as Indigo Prophecy or Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2.

I am well aware that Heavy Rain has been accused of actually not being mature, mainly because of some of Madison's scenes. But I would say that such accusations don't hold much weight, if any. As I've already demonstrated I can just as easily argue against them. It largely seems to be simply a matter of perception. It's been said that evil is in the eye of the beholder, and I would say that that's very much the kind of thing that's going on here.

I'll agree about perception, but it's hard to see maturity in a game that goes from one extreme of 100 Acre Wood storybook existence to cartoonishly down-and-dirty "Saw", and then back to the storybook (and it's far more difficult to get the slightly imperfect endings than the best one, because you'd have to resist the gamer instinct to not press buttons when prompted). And look again at the strip-tease scene. In addition to the fake-orgasming she uses for 'hilarious' effect, Madison then struts her way out of the club, thinking "You go girl!" While an empowering message, it doesn't necessarily fit a scene that we're clearly supposed to be disturbed by, since Madison herself doesn't feel threatened once she's out of that room. The thought never crosses her mind that Paco could alert the guard afterwards, or that she might be caught.

Look at 'Taxi Driver,' 'The Godfather,' or even 'The Dark Knight.' All three deal with mature, gritty subject matter and themes, just as 'Heavy Rain' does, but the dangers in those movies are always present. "Heavy Rain" only has the danger in isolated bursts, and then it's gone with a slap and a quip. Jayden's withdrawal won't become crippling (like real withdrawal does); Shelby won't have an asthma attack in the middle of a fistfight; and Ethan won't have another blackout. Those dangers that were set up so meticulously never pay off, and you know they won't, because they get forgotten about at the earliest convenience (okay, to be fair, Jayden's addiction is a recurring problem, but only conveniently happens when he's alone).

I've also heard the accusation that Heavy is not original because it does things that have been done before in books, movies, and television. But I would say such accusations are both misguided and largely irrelevant because Heavy Rain is not a movie or a television show or a book. It's a video game. And while at least some of the things that it does may be relatively common in the world of books, movies, and television, this is the world of video games we're talking about. These same things are not common in the world of video games. I would definitely agree with Christian Ward that Heavy Rain is a very important game because it brings things that are new and uncommon in world of video games to the world of video games. It may be true that Heavy Rain might not do too well as a movie, or book, or television show. But as a video game (which is what it is) it is a truly remarkable achievement.

Normally, I would agree with this sentiment, but the plot of "Heavy Rain" builds like David Cage cut and pasted scripts from various movies together to fit every single cliche he could. Premise of "Nick of Time" dropped in on "Seven" with the gimmicky tests of "Saw" interspersed, and then a reveal that might as well have been pulled from "Blood Work" (the only Clint Eastwood movie I ever regretted seeing). I get what he's going for, but you don't invoke cinema by throwing every possible hook that's ever been used into one plot. That's not a story, that's a gimmick, and a bad one at that.

But back to the issue of maturity. Even if the game does have a few lapses with regard to maturity (and that's a very big IF) it's not fair to judge the whole package based on that.

And no matter how you look at it Heavy Rain still does a much better job with the issue of maturity than most, if not all, games currently out on the market, especially mainstream games. The claim of most games to the mature label comes from excessive violence or gratuitous sexual content. And Heavy Rain has the proven ability to evoke feelings in the player other than "wow that's sexy" or "wow it's really fun to kill that or destroy this". Provided of course that it may not have succeeded for you personally but I also get the distinct impression that you are probably in the minority on this one. Critical reception of the game has been predominantly positive, and predominantly quite positive at that. This also seems to be the case with regard to consumer reception. For example as of this posting the game has gotten 89 favorable reviews (most of which are 5 stars) and only 21 critical ones on Amazon.com. On top of that the game has also been selling quite well, quite possibly far exceeding expectations. There is even reportedly a shortage of copies of the game going on right now in the UK

I'd be careful about invoking majority/minority on things like this. After all, the majority of the planet seems to love reality TV, McDonald's, and Wal-Mart, and game critics are prone to not challenge the big releases very much.

But, the reason I'm ragging on "Heavy Rain" is not because of a few small portions. I'm generally not that nitpicky. The reason I am is because the whole thing comes across as slick and superficial, and largely uninterested in dealing with its themes in a manner that is actually mature (for reasons I've already detailed above), but rather pointing at situations and going "See? This is mature?" It's just as bad as all those games that use gratuitous violence and nudity just for the "M" label, but now packaged as "Art!"

Okay first let me address your first paragraph. Let me first address your point b. When Ethan is in the shower Madison outright says "Whenever I get too exhausted I come and spend a night here". The fact that she and the clerk don't seem to know each other doesn't mean anything. The place could have a rotating staff or maybe that particular clerk had been recently hired. It's also worth noting that Madison never actually goes into how often she stays there. As I said Heavy Rain frequently pushes against the boundaries of plausibility but never actually crosses the line. Almost all of it's supposed inconsistencies can be easily explained away. And as for your points a and c, I can only assume that you chose not to let the love scene play out. Because after it's done Ethan discovers Madison's Journal and gets pissed. "You lied to me Madison! All this time you f***ing lied to me!" he said. Which she did of course. Shortly after they first met Madison told Ethan that she takes pictures of furniture for fashionable magazines, which is of course a lie. Madison then admits that she knew that Ethan was the father of the boy who disappeared and she wanted to cover the story. Spending time with Ethan was one way of covering the story and the other way was investigating the case of the Origami killer. Ultimately, she does both. And as far as I'm able to tell Madison's internal monologues never say that she doesn't know who he is or even imply that very thing. The only time they come even slightly close to anything resembling that effect is when she spots him from a distance, before she gets a decent look at his face. And after that altercation with the authorities Ethan correctly points out that she was following him. It's important to note that even if Madison knew who he was that doesn't mean that she was aware of the specifics of Ethan's exact situation, at least not at first. And that mob thing was only a hypothesis, or more specifically a hypothetical inquiry that she threw out for the purpose of prodding that additional information out of him. But she was indeed aware of who he was. And besides, the police don't tag Ethan as the primary suspect in the investigation until after this particular encounter. And the game never says anything about her being wanted. And no, Blake never did see her face. I assume that you're referring to the "Fugitive" scene that happens right after the Lizard trial. But if you replay that scene you'll notice that the game does give you a good look at what Blake's view of the outside world looks like from his closed driver's side window. And because it was raining at the time his view through the window was rather blurry. To top it all off Madison was across the street. He may have been able to discern that there was a girl there but from his particular viewpoint there was no way he would have been able to get a decent look at what her face looked like. On top of that he didn't even make the connection between the girl who went in the building and Ethan until afterwards so in his mind he would have had no reason to even try to get a good look at her face. And even if Ethan gets arrested at any point during that scene Madison always manages to be out of sight. It's also important to note that the game makes it VERY clear that Blake is quite incompetent. After he tagged Ethan Mars as the prime suspect he became fixated on Ethan and didn't care about anything else, obviously including any possible accomplices.

And now let me address what you say about the romance. I think that this is a point where the issue of individual perception comes into play (your off-handed comment about "my neck of the woods" seems to all but verify that). Let me tell you about something that does indeed happen in real life: Casual sex. People have casual sex all the time and they sure as hell don't need a good or even decent reason for it. And there are times when such encounters can lead to romantic relationships. Or in other words romantic and/or sexual relationships can and do begin quickly. And on top of that I'm not even sure if the encounter between Ethan and Madison actually fits perfectly into the category of casual sex because the time that Ethan and Madison spend together before the physical encounter (or lack thereof if the player wishes it) is anything but casual. And yes I'm talking about ALL the time they spend together because it's all an important part of the whole picture of their relationship. If you leave out some of the time you're only looking at part of the picture. And in the time they spend together (however relatively short it may be) they do have a pretty decent amount of emotional bonding. Caring for someone or being cared for by someone does indeed tend to have that effect. There was also the highly emotionally nature of Ethan's situation.

So no, it's not that the whole thing isn't realistic. It's more like it doesn't fit in with your neck of the woods. But I'm afraid that your neck of the woods really isn't all that big a place and most importantly it's not what the world is.

But now on to your second response.

""Fair enough, but it's hard to be impressed by any of this when he clearly goes for disturbing near-rape to "funny" fake orgasms in the span of a couple minutes (yeah, I pressed that button, thinking it would be something completely different based on the context that scene took place in).""

Once again the perception issue seems to be at play. But even so I assume that you're referring to the love scene. In which case it should be noted that we only get to see a part of what goes on between them and NOT the whole thing. And whoever (including the game) said anything about there being an orgasm in the part of the scene that we actually view? Nothing of the sort is definitively established.

Now for the third response.

I believe that I've already adequately addressed this in my first paragraph in this post. Madison isn't exactly arbitrary. I'll admit that maybe David Cage walks a fine line with her but never really steps over it. And even if she is (and that's a very big IF) it's not that big a deal. In real life things happen by chance and people meet by chance all the time. There nothing wrong with it and really nothing unrealistic about it.

Now for the fourth one.

Okay you are SERIOUSLY missing a very important point here. But I'll get to that in a little bit. First I'll respond to the "You go girl" thing. The whole "disturbing" part of the scene stems from the fact that Paco could shoot Madison at any time if he wanted to. After she knocks him out that part is essentially over save for when the guard comes to the door to ask if everything is okay. It may be true that Madison may have been a little overconfident. But on the one hand it's not all that implausible or unrealistic considering the dangerous immediate situation that she had just gotten herself out of. But on the other hand even if she was overconfident Paco gives her little reason not to be. When he was tied up he could have tried to alert the guard by say making a lot of noise or something, especially when the guard came to the door. But he didn't and there is a perfectly plausible (and for the most part in-game) explanation for this. That regardless of anything he may have said to Madison while tied up he did genuinely fear for his life. This is all but verified in the following scene when he is talking to the Origami killer, as he is shown to have been deeply shaken by the incident:

"That crazy bitch nearly killed me"- Paco

This would also easily explain why he didn't immediately try to alert the guard after Madison left the room. He was still afraid, or he was too busying being relieved to still be alive, or both.

And now let me address what you say about individual character weaknesses. With regard to Jayden I'm not quite sure what you mean by "crippling" but it's kind of hard to agree with you on this point when Jayden is hallucinating, hitting his face against a mirror, and is left shivering under a stream of running shower water with all of his clothes on. And your assertion that Jayden's addiction only becomes a problem when he's alone is flat-out wrong. It flares up when he confronts Mad Jack. It's also probably worth noting that if the player has Jayden resist the first urge to take the drug he has to maneuver himself to the bathroom in plain sight of other people. And as for Scott Shelby's Asthma it could just as easily also be an essential part of his role in the story like Madison with her insomnia. One of the possible causes of Asthma is psychological stress. And incidentally people with Asthma also use their inhalers to prevent asthma attacks, not just to treat them. And while the blackouts are one of Ethan's issues they aren't his only issue or really his primary one it would seem. He also can't handle crowds of people and this does become an issue on at least two occasions.

But as I said before you are seriously missing a very important point. That point is that while it may be true that the pacing of the story may vary there is indeed a constant danger that is always present. That danger is the fact that Shaun Mars has only a few days to live. And that danger is always ever present no matter what any of the characters may be doing at any given time. Those "isolated" bursts of danger you refer to are not isolated at all. Regardless of when they happen or who they happen to they are all additions to the overall and ever present danger in the story. And that is the danger that Shaun's life is in. That danger is the driving force of the story. It's what all of the various scenes (possibly excluding the first two but they're just precursors) in the game have in common. It's what brings them all together and makes them into a coherent and ultimately compelling story (the compelling part being for a large number of people other than yourself apparently). After all, the central message of the story is the question of how far you would be willing to go to save someone you love.

Now for the fifth one.

Okay, I think there may be an inherent flaw with this part of your argument. You say that you would normally agree with me but you don't specify exactly why or why you don't agree with me now, although it's probably easily enough to figure out. But nevertheless if you assume that the person you're talking to automatically knows exactly what you're talking about then the results can be unpredictable and a misunderstanding could possibly ensue. Another issue is the very idea of the cliche. What makes a cliche a cliche is the fact that it has lost it's effectiveness. So if an idea has been used many times but hasn't lost it's effectiveness then it's not really a cliche, it's simply a recurring idea. So it would seem that the idea of cliches may be inherently problematic because it seems to be heavily routed in subjectivity and therefore that would make it rather tricky to definitively label something as a cliche.

I guess you could say that if something has lost it's effectiveness with a large number of people then one could plausibly label something a cliche. But in that same vein it's very curious that Heavy Rain by all accounts appears to be a hit with a large number of critics AND CONSUMERS alike.

But let's put this issue aside now. Let's say that all of the things you refer to are indeed cliches. But even if that's true it doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. The reason for this is that you seem to be insisting on comparing Heavy Rain to movies. But as I've already said it's not fair, or particularly appropriate I might add, to compare video games to movies, or books, or television, or virtually any other kind of media. The reason for this is that Video games an have extremely important thing that other media don't have. And that's the factor of interactivity. Interacting with something a fundamentally different experience than sitting by and observing it. Movies don't have interactivity while video games do therefore it's just not fair, or plausible, or appropriate to compare the two. It doesn't matter how many movie "cliches" that Heavy Rain includes, because ultimately Heavy Rain is not a movie, it's a video game. As I've said these things may be common in the world of movies but they are not common in the world of video games. And for this very reason it doesn't matter how many of them there are. In fact one could plausible argue that the more of them that Heavy Rain includes, the better. These things are new and/or uncommon in the world of video games and it would seem that the world of video games is in need of new things.

And besides one could also plausibly argue that, considering the wide positive reception the game has been getting, David Cage has taken these cliches and freed them from their cliche status by making them effective by incorporating the factor of interactivity.

And now on to the sixth and final one.

You seem to be implying that invoking majority/minority on like this is a slippery slope because a majority of people tend to like things that can plausible be described as crap. But on the other hand simply countering this by warning someone that it could be a slipper slope (or something to that effect) could be another slippery slope in and of itself. This is partially because by the same token a majority of people may like something that can plausibly be described as good such as love for example. And this is also partially because of the issue of subjectivity. What's crap to some people may be good to others. Who can say what really is good and what really is crap? And this is all of course assuming that I'm actually right about what you're saying about that. I'm afraid that once again you seem to have failed to sufficiently clarify yourself.

But now on to the rest of the sixth one.

First of all, a game that would do a good job of fitting the brief description you have provided at the end of your latest post would be Bayonetta. And if I may be so bold I think it might be a good idea to take a few steps back and look at whole picture. The very idea of comparing a game like Bayonetta to Heavy Rain would by all accounts seem to be both highly implausible and quite possible rather laughable. But enough about that.

You seem to be claiming that while the subject matter that Heavy Rain is using is mature the way that it handles said subject matter is not (once again you seem to be a bit lacking in terms of clarification). But the problem with this claim is that it seems to have been rather heavily tainted by your own perceptions and possibly more. I've said that Heavy Rain pushes against the boundaries of plausibility but never really crosses the line. What I mean by this is that almost all of the supposed inconsistencies or alleged oddities in the game, like the ones you've pointed out, can easily be explained away. I believe that I've already sufficiently demonstrated this, particularly in the earlier parts of this post.

But now that I think about it, I think that there may be another issue at work here.

I don't think this is really all that much about Heavy Rain. I'm really sorry if I may come across as rude or anything of the like but I think this may be more about you. Your perceptions, your preconceptions, your tastes, and your opinions.

You see, I've obviously explained a number of things about Heavy Rain in this post. But these are things that you could have thought of on your own. But it would seem that you didn't see them possibly because you may have been too busy being wrapped up in your own preconceptions. I fear that you may have not been willing enough to give the game the benefit of a doubt, give the game a decent enough chance, or possibly even suspend your own disbelief. I fear that Heavy Rain essentially may be a game that you disliked long before you started playing it, or possibly even before you even knew it existed.

BUT don't get me wrong. That's perfectly alright. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. For someone to have their own opinions, tastes, preconceptions, or perceptions. There's nothing wrong with that.

But on the other hand I genuinely believe that there is something wrong with the way that said opinion has been presented in this case. Or in other words to be critical of something is fine, but I truly believe that there is a right and wrong way to go about it. For example, saying "This is bad" is not the same thing as saying "I personally didn't like this" or "This didn't work for me personally". Or in other words I'm talking about having an opinion but also being mindful that it is still just that: one's own opinion.

Having one's own opinion is one thing, but presenting said opinion as though it were fact (even if it is done unintentionally) is another. And I believe that this is something that should be avoided whenever possible. I'd also like to apologize in advance if I may have inadvertently does this myself as some point.

Having ones own feelings and opinions is fine, but that doesn't give one the right to belittle the opinions and feelings of others. And presenting one's own opinion as though it were fact (once again even if done unintentionally) does indeed seem to tend to have that effect.

To be mindful of oneself and those around you. I believe that this is quite possibly the most fundamental difference between the jerks and the pricks and those who are truly worthy of respect.

Or to put it simply I strongly urge you to please be mindful of your manners.

I'm not really loving this game, HOWEVER, my non-gamer girlfriend basically took the controler from me after about 30 minutes of gameplay and hasn't put it down.

The game isn't 'actiony' so I only recommend it to my gamer friends who aren't hooked on WoW. It is pretty enough and the story is messed up enough that I have a hard time not watching her play.

If you like a challenge and characters that you can actually get to know, get this game.

I also liken it to a choose your own adventure game. I find i lose interest in whatever i'm playing when the girlfriend boots this up just to see where the story goes and watch what decisions she makes. I'm going to play through it when she's done so I can see where the game takes me because she chooses options i normally wouldn't.

.. and.. at one point she was swearing at the screen cause the character did something stupid, some stupid storywise not gameplay. Which is wierd cause I always swear at bowser cause he hit me with a fireball, not for stealing the princess.

Heavy rain is the best game out yet for me because it has got the best storyline that there has ever been in a game. Also it draws you in as if your actually there making the vast amount of choices to choose from. I really liked this game and i would recomend it to everyone who has the best console, called PS3!

Loved the different endings!

I would love to try it but unfortunately I don't have a PS3

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