On the Ball: A Shoddy (Star)Craftsman

 Pages 1 2 NEXT
 

On the Ball: A Shoddy (Star)Craftsman

Jordan Deam stumbles through his first week of StarCraft II multiplayer.

Read Full Article

At least you did better than I did on SC I

I know how you feel at the opening, never been good at the zerg thing...always ticked me off and made it feel like "Wtf? What was the point!?"

Im looking forward to playing this, I never really plated Star I, so, I see this as a chance at redemption...or so my co-worker tells me lol

I've actually found that playing against the computer too much can be a disadvantage, as you get set in your ways of doing things that are effective vs ai, but aren't effective vs ppl. Similarly, you don't think of strategies that work great vs human but ai would never fall for.

Holy Shit another C&C vet. I actually have yet to play even the first StarCraft game, but now that the sequel is coming out, and that seems to be like the second coming of God, I might have to pick up a copy of the old StarCraft so I'm at least half ass good by the time the game comes out

Sigh, just reading about other people playing is making me envious. But alas, I've never been lucky (or important) enough to get into a blizzard beta. People are already figuring out the roach builds, or how to counter stalkers. I know the game will probably have a 10 year life span (like SC1), but i can't help but feel like i'm left out on some fundamental playstyle development.

Maybe i should stop reading the beta forums and watching game streams until it comes out. Just try to ignore it until the game drops.

Who am i kidding? I can't ignore this. Re-Sigh.

You can't have played on that high a level in C&C either then if you didn't get enough workers and didn't spend your cash :P

Most game genres have transitional skill sets. If you've played street fighter for instance you'll probably do better at Tekken than a complete beginner, even though they play completely differently.

I played Warcraft 3 with some hint of competitive ambition, and I think I can safely say that I'd beat you with relative ease if you tried to marine-rush me in SC2, even though I haven't played it. Keep at it though; the RTS-community is always look for new blood! :)

I gotta be honest I can't wait till I get to play some tower defense or some DOTA in SC2.

Hah! That was a jolly good read. I have trouble working out when the best point is to expand one's base to another resource area, but other than that I'm a moderately good RTS player.

Still wish I'd gotten an SC2 beta key though :(

Jordan Deam:
Build as many marines as you can, then send wave after wave at the enemy's base until it's gone. It's a tactic more befitting of the hive-minded Zerg than the more individualistic Terran, but I'm not going to concern myself with the philosophical implications of my wars of attrition when it's the only way I've been able to win.

Ah, so you're a devotee of the Zapp Brannigan school of space combat, then?

Jordan Deam:
snip

You know what's the best StarCraft II tutorial? StarCraft! Seriously, you can pick that game up for, like, virtually nothing, and you'll have three full-length campaigns to hone your skills in all three races. By the time your can win a skirmish against three of the strongest AI, you'll be ready for the online play. Just don't play against Koreans, they always win.

After that training, it's only a matter of getting to know the new units in SC2, the core gameplay is the same.

I was always a Age of Empires player (and think that AoE 2 was the best RTS of all time) so when ever I get to play Warcraft or Starcraft online I get my ass handed to me. i just dont get the play style. It was never that fun for me. Ill check this game out, but if it ends up with having to buy three differnt games to play each race then I will pass.

gosh DoTA was the most ridiculous game of all time, one reason I dont like playing these games online.

RTS mechanics aren't as new as you think. Even in the original Command and Conquer had the basics of macro, economy harrasment and drops.

I remember having discussions wheter it's better to build factory-scout unit-harvester or to juts build second rafinery (it comes with a harvester) and sell it. Finding and killing enemy harvesters was as imortaint as building an army. And forgeting to close your base for Nod's steath units or just an APC full of engineers or comandos could result in a smashing defeat.

That Starcrat did was presedn an extremly balanced and entertainment game. So that al the players could evolve & refine the basics and come up with even more devious and destrctive strategies.

Starcraft 2 is so cool I think it's going to motivate me to finally learn how to effectively use hotkeys in an RTS game. I'm going to try for an APM of 100 as a personal goal.

"Hi. My name is Jordan, and I'm a recovering Command & Conquer player."

Oh sweet, another C&C player. I remember that I played C&C: RA and it was fun.

Maybe I should get Starcraft I for the heck of it.

Wait a minute. Sending wave after wave of marines? That is the worst strategy I've ever heard. :/

No offense, but I could set up two siege tanks, some mines, and a basic chokehold point along with goliaths and missile turrets and you'd run out of minerals before I was even half way finished.

You wanna talk strategy? Try a guy who will drop tanks behind your mineral patches, then commence a full assault so you can't divert units to stop them. Trust me, i've lost many times to that.

I never liked how starcraft played, the gathering, the bulding the commanding always felt really weird to me, never as smooth as C&C or any of the other rts games I love, dawn of war, company of heroes, world in conflict, even star wars empire at war. Starcraft always felt too much like a tc of war2 and I really didnt like war 2 either.... I didnt really like war 3 till the expansion altho I suppose part of that is that I dont really like rts games multiplayer, at least head to head.

Good to know SC2 is exactly as I remember SC1... or is it. I found the game, while fun in SP, was a nightmare to play in MP. The fights were rarely epic, usually consisted of insane amounts of spam and rush tactics (worse then C&C) and even if I won I felt bitter towards my opponent as the only reason I won was due to me spamming a counter to his spam then spamming a counter to the counter of my spam. BLEH... I'll still get it, though not right away.

Ne1butme:
Sigh, just reading about other people playing is making me envious. But alas, I've never been lucky (or important) enough to get into a blizzard beta. People are already figuring out the roach builds, or how to counter stalkers. I know the game will probably have a 10 year life span (like SC1), but i can't help but feel like i'm left out on some fundamental playstyle development.

Maybe i should stop reading the beta forums and watching game streams until it comes out. Just try to ignore it until the game drops.

Who am i kidding? I can't ignore this. Re-Sigh.

You speak for the masses who didn't get into the beta party. I for one plan to play lots of single player before taking a shot at online multiplayer. I know I am gonna get smeared going in regardless of my preparation(since meat players don't play like AI), but at least the learning curve from there will be less treacherous. Here's hoping you can still find friends to play with on Battlenet instead of playing the MW2 roulette wheel for opponents.

I still can't beat Starcraft AI on normal when I occasionally play. My buddy and I managed to hold them to a resouces drained stalemate though.

3 months from losing every single WC3 match against AI to doing a 8 player FFA on insane.

Also reminds me of Street Fighter's learning curve. 3 months from losing every single match to winning a round.

My experience with SF2 as a kid involved sweeping at every opportunity.

If a marine rush gets you 1 in 3 victories, it can only mean that there are a lot of beta participants out there in the same situation as Jordan's. Either new to StarCraft, or simply really rusty.

But playing StarCraft is an evolutionary path: people adapt to your winning tactics, then you adapt to their winning tactics and so on. If you don't, then you'll find yourself staring at a 'Defeat!' screen more and more.
In the case of this marine rush, it would be like: fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice... (hope I got it right, since Bush, I can never be sure).

The multi-player learning curve will always be steep for this game, and the reason is it's competitiveness. There are a lot of people wanting to get better and better at this game all the time (what's the population of Korea again?).

With the original StarCraft, I breezed through the single-player, and was only playing multi-player among friends. I considered myself pretty good, until I went on battle.net and discovered fast that my skill scale was way off - I was actually pretty bad. Luckily, I had a friend that had played more online, and that was willing to teach-play me. I didn't get good, but I did become better. The great thing was that even when defeated, the fun never stopped.
I've had this game for more than 10 years now, and I still play it (considerably less, but still...).

As a side note, my first RTS was Westwood's Dune2, but I switched 'sides' ever since Warcraft 2.

I could never get the hang of Starcraft whether in single player campaign or in multiplayer against AI or people because I'm a habitual turtler. I started on AoE and C&C and in both of these its easy enough to get solid defenses up before someone tries to rush you but with SC I just got my butt handed to me continually and it stopped being fun. The reason I like Supreme Commander is that Turtling is a viable stratagy.

I guess, this wave of beta, isn't meant for other than press people and the like. *unhappyface*
Many others it seems, also discover that, there is a lot more to it, than just "attack move to enemy base".
Which is good.

DeSpiner:

fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice... (hope I got it right, since Bush, I can never be sure).

You didn't :)

The point of the idiom is that anyone can be fooled once, but should never be fooled twice.

I remember the good old days of Red Alert 2. Zerg rushes ain't got nothing on conscripts. To put some emphasis on that the zerg never made my computer crash. I never really got into Blizzards RTS's though. i have played both Starcraft and Warcraft 3 but i never bought the former and after a while the latter just keeps repeating itself. I have played allot of DoTA though.

Playbahnosh:

Jordan Deam:
snip

You know what's the best StarCraft II tutorial? StarCraft! Seriously, you can pick that game up for, like, virtually nothing, and you'll have three full-length campaigns to hone your skills in all three races. By the time your can win a skirmish against three of the strongest AI, you'll be ready for the online play. Just don't play against Koreans, they always win.

After that training, it's only a matter of getting to know the new units in SC2, the core gameplay is the same.

There are no AI difficulty levels in the original Star Craft :p You're right about the campaign though, it's designed to be a teacher.

thanks for the impression. Good to know SC is still SC ^-^

Playbahnosh:
StarCraft! Seriously, you can pick that game up for, like, virtually nothing, and you'll have three full-length campaigns to hone your skills

Six! Apart from the fact that it's nearly impossible to find starcraft without its expansion, as long as you register your starcraft key on battle.net you'll get Brood war as well.

Jacob.pederson:
There are no AI difficulty levels in the original Star Craft :p

Silly me, of course there are no difficulty levels. I've been playing a lot of Age of Empires 2 lately, I think that's what confused me.

Xocrates:

Playbahnosh:
StarCraft! Seriously, you can pick that game up for, like, virtually nothing, and you'll have three full-length campaigns to hone your skills

Six! Apart from the fact that it's nearly impossible to find starcraft without its expansion, as long as you register your starcraft key on battle.net you'll get Brood war as well.

Wow, I didn't know that. I bought my copy of StarCraft nearly eight years ago and the expansion a few years after that.

There you have it Jordan, six campaigns! That's twice the fun! :)

This is exactly why I am reluctant to pick up an RTS, especially Starcraft. It's like dropping someone who doesn't even know the rules straight into the big leagues.

I have yet to play a single-player RTS campaign that teaches you how to beat a human opponent. They never guide your tactics to improvement, they simply say 'have another go' and send mindless waves while you learn to click faster to beat the instant-commands-anywhere-on-the-map AI.

This could simply be a limitation of the AI in the games that I've played, though, so hopefully Starcraft 2 will be the one that fixes this. I await expectantly...

Blizzard already said that the single player campaign will not help teach players to play multiplayer. They did say that there would be tutorials and challenges designed to help people prepare for multiplayer games.

I think one of the reasons I don't like playing starcraft is I dont see the point in a 5 minute rush match. I enjoy very much bulding up a complete base with defenses and all that and THEN commencing war. Building 1/3 of the possible buildings or units before winning or dying is not what I'd call fun.

Miral:

Jordan Deam:
Build as many marines as you can, then send wave after wave at the enemy's base until it's gone. It's a tactic more befitting of the hive-minded Zerg than the more individualistic Terran, but I'm not going to concern myself with the philosophical implications of my wars of attrition when it's the only way I've been able to win.

Ah, so you're a devotee of the Zapp Brannigan school of space combat, then?

send wave after wave of loyal soldiers until the kill bots reach their kill limit?

Pendragon9:
Wait a minute. Sending wave after wave of marines? That is the worst strategy I've ever heard. :/

No offense, but I could set up two siege tanks, some mines, and a basic chokehold point along with goliaths and missile turrets and you'd run out of minerals before I was even half way finished.

You wanna talk strategy? Try a guy who will drop tanks behind your mineral patches, then commence a full assault so you can't divert units to stop them. Trust me, i've lost many times to that.

You mean thors?

Anyway Jordan when this comes out I want to play you first, for the confidence boost. (you guys think it's still possible to do a dozen zealot rush in the first 5 minutes?) Don't worry if you last atleast 7 minutes you'll probably win my late game is horrific.

 Pages 1 2 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here