Dante's Inferno

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hehe some good points.

So yahtzee.....how about you stick some mining lasers in there?
Maybe hundreds and thousands of skills that take you years to complete? ;)
haha

Here's an idea for Space Game - make the protagonist a flunkie for a brutal and repressive interstellar government. The player has to locate small bands of plucky rebels fighting to restore freedom to the Galaxy and crush them mercilessly.

I'll let you know where to send the royalty cheque.

Or rather the flunkie realizes the error of his ways and joins the good guys
Except in the end he back stabs them and his boss becoming the evil Emperor of the universe in a massive Xanatos Gambit. Also, your ship AI is the Mass Effect-eque love interest

"Or rather the flunkie realizes the error of his ways and joins the good guys"

Oh dear God no - the world doesn't need another Avatar. (Hell, it didn't even need the first one). Our protagonist should be an evil bastard beginning to end.

While we're at it, a question for Yahtzee - are you going to include any of your 'cool game ideas that the developers are all too retarded to appreciate'? I'm thinking especially of the dynamic dialogue system you mentioned a little while ago.

Cant wait for the spacegame been trying to find an simple entertaining one for a while

Learn to use the unreal 3 engine its free to use you cretin

I have to say, good call on Catacombs. A seriously fun, old school game.

Bilbo536:

Ninjamedic:
In regards to your game, it better have a star fox style control system.
....sorry I'm still depressed over star fox adventures....

I liked Star Fox adventures :(. Granted, a combat/platformer isn't really what you'd expect from the Star Fox franchise, but it was cool that they tried something new with it, and I thought they did a pretty good job of it.

Twas a copy of zelda, It still saddens me.

I bet google are wondering why some many people started googline simony and usury.

also on a plot for a space game..... why not have zero plot?

It's the future, space is vast, you just bought a pile of junk, just go and explore? lots of npc to meet and missions to find as well as just lying around.

also the game battlecruiser had the best dynamic where you controlled a carrier, and could fly around space in a fighter that left the carrier, or fly from a shuttle to a support frigate and take that elsewhere leaving the fleet in station, better still you could pilot a drop shit, fly right down to a planet no stop n load , land get out, walk or drive a jeep around.

only they they made space way to open like inj reality and all the planets had like 1 building on it, but it was epic.

getting to that point could be the pinnicle of your game, and I love the idea of detatching from the fleet or even sending npc squads of to a mission... becuase you cant just take a fleet everywhere, it has many roles like...

yeah anyways ..

The only thing I can say really is, DMC did NOT invent the Hack n' Slash. For that you should look further back to games like Dynasty Warriors. Guess what you did in those games? You ran around Hacking and Slashing things.

So, yeah. Can't really argue with that. DMC focuses mostly on style and how many awesome combos you can pull off, while GoW is mostly a " I'm run through you, and then skullfuck everything else in my way. "

I didn't really like DI as much as GoW or DMC, but then again I enjoyed GoW more then DMC. And yet, I've played all three of them. Some of them I liked, some I hated. Its just the way people enjoy their stuff.

Redd:
The only thing I can say really is, DMC did NOT invent the Hack n' Slash. For that you should look further back to games like Dynasty Warriors. Guess what you did in those games? You ran around Hacking and Slashing things.

So, yeah. Can't really argue with that. DMC focuses mostly on style and how many awesome combos you can pull off, while GoW is mostly a " I'm run through you, and then skullfuck everything else in my way. "

I didn't really like DI as much as GoW or DMC, but then again I enjoyed GoW more then DMC. And yet, I've played all three of them. Some of them I liked, some I hated. Its just the way people enjoy their stuff.

Thank you for bringing up Dynasty Warrirors. I also concur with your God of War assessment. :)

Long Story Short: God of War a touchstone. Of course it's going to be emulated.

---

Short Story Long:

Shameless? Ok, I'll grant that.

Why is that such a bad thing? Saints Row was an unrepentant knockoff of GTA, but one that did well enough on it's own to warrant a second and even spur GTA to take on some of its better mechanics. Is it so much to ask that we play a game to enjoy it, as both I and my wife did? Is it therefore too much to ask that we RATE games based on how much we enjoyed said game, like the non-press, non-review-writing, non-self-important-attention-whore gamers in the market will rate it? Real-world gamers... not those with a giant soapbox to shout from... don't sit down and pen sub-scores. They simply get a feeling, like "Buy, Sell, Rent, Avoid, ShaqFu".

This is just plain ugly that we should have a mandatory evisceration of Dante's Inferno because of its similarity to God of War. I have a hard time with absolutes, especially when people insist on adopting arbitrary principles based on those absolutes:

"I have to pass laws to coerce other people to adhere to my religious views. That proves to God I have religious views. Therefore, it's vitally important to me that you don't buy alcohol before noon on Sunday."

"I should crap on a game that takes some cues from a great place to take cues. All games have to be new and innovative or the art of games isn't moving forward and will DIE! Therefore, Dante's Inferno should be made an example of for the protection of the industry."

There is no middle ground when you rest on over-extended principles like these because you forgot why you have them. Perhaps I pick up Dante's Inferno BEFORE I play God of War. Who did I have more fun with then? Do I downgrade GoW for not aging well on a, frankly, aged machine? No, that would be a stupid hair-brained principle. But why not that principle rather than this principle?

Look, Yahtzee... and the rest of you jaded reviewer-types and wannabes... you play a shit-ton of games. I get it. We still expect you to be professional (yep... said it straight faced...) enough to separate one game from another while SIMULTANEOUSLY acknowledging that games aren't made in a vacuum. Dante's Inferno merely looks to God of War as a TOUCHSTONE. Is that so hard to acknowledge and subsequently rate the game on its own merits?

I'm looking forward to "Fun Space Game: The Game!" it's been a while since I've played a space based game and your idea has piqued my interest in the genre again.

I hope it all goes well, you never know we might have a space game revolution on our hands if any developers/publishers pay attention to you!

edgeofblade:
Long Story Short: God of War a touchstone. Of course it's going to be emulated.

---

Short Story Long:

Shameless? Ok, I'll grant that.

Why is that such a bad thing? Saints Row was an unrepentant knockoff of GTA, but one that did well enough on it's own to warrant a second and even spur GTA to take on some of its better mechanics. Is it so much to ask that we play a game to enjoy it, as both I and my wife did? Is it therefore too much to ask that we RATE games based on how much we enjoyed said game, like the non-press, non-review-writing, non-self-important-attention-whore gamers in the market will rate it? Real-world gamers... not those with a giant soapbox to shout from... don't sit down and pen sub-scores. They simply get a feeling, like "Buy, Sell, Rent, Avoid, ShaqFu".

This is just plain ugly that we should have a mandatory evisceration of Dante's Inferno because of its similarity to God of War. I have a hard time with absolutes, especially when people insist on adopting arbitrary principles based on those absolutes:

"I have to pass laws to coerce other people to adhere to my religious views. That proves to God I have religious views. Therefore, it's vitally important to me that you don't buy alcohol before noon on Sunday."

"I should crap on a game that takes some cues from a great place to take cues. All games have to be new and innovative or the art of games isn't moving forward and will DIE! Therefore, Dante's Inferno should be made an example of for the protection of the industry."

There is no middle ground when you rest on over-extended principles like these because you forgot why you have them. Perhaps I pick up Dante's Inferno BEFORE I play God of War. Who did I have more fun with then? Do I downgrade GoW for not aging well on a, frankly, aged machine? No, that would be a stupid hair-brained principle. But why not that principle rather than this principle?

Look, Yahtzee... and the rest of you jaded reviewer-types and wannabes... you play a shit-ton of games. I get it. We still expect you to be professional (yep... said it straight faced...) enough to separate one game from another while SIMULTANEOUSLY acknowledging that games aren't made in a vacuum. Dante's Inferno merely looks to God of War as a TOUCHSTONE. Is that so hard to acknowledge and subsequently rate the game on its own merits?

Look at the other top tier games in the genre that came out after DMC including God of War...They are all different from each other, in at least the nuances of their combat engines; the most important part of these types of games. Even Bayonetta manages to pull it off and that was made by the guy who could be given a pass at least this once! Why then should anyone give Dante's Inferno any credit? It's pathetic what they did even if some of those guys did work on God of War, how do you not try to really change the battle system to differentiate your new work from your old work? What are we supposed to think when the exact same strategies we used in God of War apply to this game with no change?

You bring up the lack of a middle ground, I would agree in the sense that some incredibly myopic people have decided to abuse phrases like rip-off and innovative to the point where they have become utterly meaningless because no one is capable of seeing the small details as important. It also means that when a true rip-off arrives people have a much harder time calling it out because some people have destroyed the meaning of the term by abusing it. Some even start claiming that we should get rid of genres when the real problem is that genre definitions based on primarily on mechanics rather than purpose are inherently weak.

Yatzee you fool! What are you doing reviewing a game when THERE IS A PORTAL ARG (augmented reality game for all you not acronymicly inteligent) GOING ON! If there ever was a geeky pursuit worth taking this is it!!!!!!!!! The mystery leads to either portal 2 or episode 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Played through the demo today on the PS3. My first impression was that the graphics are pretty good. I'll happily take smooth animations over the bleeding edge of textures and polygon counts. I thought it compared well with current releases of PS3 games, maybe not the best thing out there, but it fit in pretty good. Controls were sharp too.

My second impression though, came with the first boss fight against death. I'd do some damage but he kept knocking me down. When my health was down by half, his was down only by a quarter. So I'm like "OMG I'm losing to the tutorial boss on easy mode." I'm trying different strategies but nothing seems to be working. Figuring it is a lost cause and I am hopeless at the game, I just started randomly button mashing and half-heartedly going through the QTEs to die and restart the fight, and then before I know it, his hit points are most of the way down, as are mine. I'm like "wha...?" because I wasn't even trying. So I just keep lazily tapping the quick attack button and before I know it he is dead.

Now, I'm sure the makers of Dante's Inferno wanted me to be thinking: "Wow... I was losing at first... then I started trying really hard... and slowly I whittled down his heath... and then I beat death just barely!!! OMFG that was SO exciting!" But instead I was thinking: "Do these guys as visceral think I'm such a fucking retard that I don't see that I'm getting played?" I was thinking of replaying it a couple of times just to prove my point, but decided it isn't worth it.

I half-heartedly finished the demo after that--hey at least it is farther along than I got with Heavy Rain--and I saw the potential for a pretty good game in all this, but the fight with death and pixelated tits with all the realism of a blow up doll left a bad taste in my mouth. Like the review says, I'll wait for God of War.

I'm not defending Dante, but I can kinda see the wind thing as appropiate, since those in lust are used to coming together (ha ha) and now they are forever kept apart from others. Still seems a light punishment, unless the wind is made of pain or something.

well dante's inferno is a decent game to me... but i never totally understood the lust circle... i much more prefer my look at it.
men and woman are tortured by being fucked with metal toys that are white hot for eternity.
much more fitting for it in my opinion.

I want this space game!!! Also I have no comment on God of War clone because I have never been a fan of the hackky slashy game types. just saying.

Ninjamedic:
In regards to your game, it better have a star fox style control system.
....sorry I'm still depressed over star fox adventures....

I don't blame you for being depressed over that game. I'm just glad that I rented the game instead of buying it.

What's funny is that every reviewer who doesn't compare it to GoW gave it a high score. I'm so tired of reviewers comparing games to other games. Review a game on it's own merits, not how it compares to its peers. Is it fun, is it interesting, is it well rounded. As someone who never played GoW I loved Dantes Inferno.

Dragonrhonin:
What's funny is that every reviewer who doesn't compare it to GoW gave it a high score. I'm so tired of reviewers comparing games to other games. Review a game on it's own merits, not how it compares to its peers. Is it fun, is it interesting, is it well rounded. As someone who never played GoW I loved Dantes Inferno.

I actually found the game to be very annoying. I also had trouble keeping track of where Dante was because he tended to fade into the background. I also felt like the check points were not very well placed. I wouldn't give it very high marks based on that and the fact that it needlessly confines itself to the source material while inherently butchering it.

What if you turned your fun space game into an Innerspace-like enviornment where you get into Michael Atkinson's body then spend the game floating through his bloodstream blowing up white blood cells, and avoiding solid, asteroid-like chunks of pure evil? A boss battle could be fighting your way through until you reach his black heart and blow it up. Or like, get to his brain and hook into it to make him put on a slinky neglige and dance around in front of the paparazzi?

Children, children. What about Rygar? What about Wizards and Warriors? Gauntlet? It might even go back to the 2600 days. Hell, I don't know.

VonBrewskie:
What if you turned your fun space game into an Innerspace-like enviornment where you get into Michael Atkinson's body then spend the game floating through his bloodstream blowing up white blood cells, and avoiding solid, asteroid-like chunks of pure evil? A boss battle could be fighting your way through until you reach his black heart and blow it up. Or like, get to his brain and hook into it to make him put on a slinky neglige and dance around in front of the paparazzi?

Ooooh!

Marry me!

edgeofblade:
Long Story Short: God of War a touchstone. Of course it's going to be emulated.

---

Short Story Long:

Shameless? Ok, I'll grant that.

Why is that such a bad thing? Saints Row was an unrepentant knockoff of GTA, but one that did well enough on it's own to warrant a second and even spur GTA to take on some of its better mechanics. Is it so much to ask that we play a game to enjoy it, as both I and my wife did? Is it therefore too much to ask that we RATE games based on how much we enjoyed said game, like the non-press, non-review-writing, non-self-important-attention-whore gamers in the market will rate it? Real-world gamers... not those with a giant soapbox to shout from... don't sit down and pen sub-scores. They simply get a feeling, like "Buy, Sell, Rent, Avoid, ShaqFu".

This is just plain ugly that we should have a mandatory evisceration of Dante's Inferno because of its similarity to God of War. I have a hard time with absolutes, especially when people insist on adopting arbitrary principles based on those absolutes:

"I have to pass laws to coerce other people to adhere to my religious views. That proves to God I have religious views. Therefore, it's vitally important to me that you don't buy alcohol before noon on Sunday."

"I should crap on a game that takes some cues from a great place to take cues. All games have to be new and innovative or the art of games isn't moving forward and will DIE! Therefore, Dante's Inferno should be made an example of for the protection of the industry."

There is no middle ground when you rest on over-extended principles like these because you forgot why you have them. Perhaps I pick up Dante's Inferno BEFORE I play God of War. Who did I have more fun with then? Do I downgrade GoW for not aging well on a, frankly, aged machine? No, that would be a stupid hair-brained principle. But why not that principle rather than this principle?

Look, Yahtzee... and the rest of you jaded reviewer-types and wannabes... you play a shit-ton of games. I get it. We still expect you to be professional (yep... said it straight faced...) enough to separate one game from another while SIMULTANEOUSLY acknowledging that games aren't made in a vacuum. Dante's Inferno merely looks to God of War as a TOUCHSTONE. Is that so hard to acknowledge and subsequently rate the game on its own merits?

One rule to live by is that in any creative endeavor, if you're not going to be breaking any new ground, and you're basically going to stick to one very established mold, then you better do what you're doing exceptionally well, or you're going to be destined to live in the shadow of the people who've came before you.

Saints Row actually improved in many ways on the GTA formula. As far as I'm concerned, Dante's Inferno gave us nothing new, and it gave us nothing that wasn't given as good or better than God of War. It's not a bad game by any means, but it deserves most of the hassle it's been getting for being in the shadow of God of War.

Wow! Yahtzee finally replied to one of my comments after all these (three) years. I always imagined that if and when he did, he would rip me a new asshole (arsehole to you limeys), and I guess I'm glad he didn't.

AgentNein:

edgeofblade:
Long Story Short: God of War a touchstone. Of course it's going to be emulated.

It's not a bad game by any means, but it deserves most of the hassle it's been getting for being in the shadow of God of War.

No, it doesn't do anything especially different. But for me, that wasn't necessary for me to enjoy it and have fun. On that basis alone, I don't care if it borrows wholesale from God of War. GoW was a GREAT model to look to for cues, and since you want to go down the road of games as "art", I think Dante's Inferno was more relevant artistically than GoW. Why can't THAT be what this game added to the landscape. It was an epic told in game form, remarkably accurately given the parameters of a game.

Also, I want to reiterate, what did GoW2 do so differently from GoW? And what is GoW3 compared to the previous two? How about Bayonetta against DMC? They are all genre games. No one should be surprised at this at all.

Mostly, I'm defending DI because 1) it was fun enough for me to play it the whole way through, and 2) why are we (so very ironically) heaping all the sins of the industry on one game and calling for its creators and publishers to be sued? Why does this game deserve punishment above all the other cases of "copying" in the industry?

edgeofblade:

AgentNein:

edgeofblade:
Long Story Short: God of War a touchstone. Of course it's going to be emulated.

It's not a bad game by any means, but it deserves most of the hassle it's been getting for being in the shadow of God of War.

No, it doesn't do anything especially different. But for me, that wasn't necessary for me to enjoy it and have fun. On that basis alone, I don't care if it borrows wholesale from God of War. GoW was a GREAT model to look to for cues, and since you want to go down the road of games as "art", I think Dante's Inferno was more relevant artistically than GoW. Why can't THAT be what this game added to the landscape. It was an epic told in game form, remarkably accurately given the parameters of a game.

Also, I want to reiterate, what did GoW2 do so differently from GoW? And what is GoW3 compared to the previous two? How about Bayonetta against DMC? They are all genre games. No one should be surprised at this at all.

Mostly, I'm defending DI because 1) it was fun enough for me to play it the whole way through, and 2) why are we (so very ironically) heaping all the sins of the industry on one game and calling for its creators and publishers to be sued? Why does this game deserve punishment above all the other cases of "copying" in the industry?

Because this particular game is the essence of what our English teachers meant when they told us not to copy other people. They didn't mean don't have similar ideas, or concepts, they meant don't take a work and not put in your own ideas at all. That people have turned copying into a cliche of itself does not mean that there are not real cases of it going around. The fact that idiots who don't get what a genre is and why things are placed into them have brutalized games for being in a given genre does not excuse this game. Not when it is plain that all the other games released within it's accepted genre are different from each other in more than just the art design.

When we accuse people of copying we mean something like this:http://community.livejournal.com/bleachness/446299.html

I wonder if Fun Space Game. The Game Will cost us monies? Because people have spent more on less.

Concerning fun space games,
Every time Yahtzee talks about 'Fun Space Game: The Game' I think of the History of the World (part 2)...

Anyways, the two most prominent 3d space games I've played are Vendetta Online and Freespace 2.

Freespace 2 didn't abide by the laws of physics very will, while Vendetta did (I.E. keeping momentum) but had VERY good ambience (see the nebulae sections, and ship destruction animations). For limiting itself to pure forward or not moving, Freespace didn't feel like it suffered from poor controls or notable limitations, while being able to strafe and 'backroll' in Vendetta, dogfights looked and felt very awkward. Two players would end up doing a crazy sideways dance through space spiraling farther and farther from where they started, somewhat locked in a fight that is decided as soon as one player stops strafing. It was fun and interesting, but overall suffered when looked at from a 3rd perspective.

Concerning Dante's Inferno and co,
g'lord, game companies copying something that is making money? for shame.

the whole thing about being in a whirlwind in the circle regarding lust is because those sinners have been "swept up by their passion" much like getting caught in a tornado. Just throwing that out there. Great reviews by the man as always!

agreed, even though I still had fun with Dante's Inferno
as for a plot for your game, how about... a single man in the whole spaceship, going through space to find inspiration to write verses for a poem, while his muse is destroying every enemy(or asteroid) that he sees. Lasers score you tetrameters, bombs make pentameters, and mixing the two correctly gets you hexameters. Going to certain regions of space inspires you to write on different subjects, and looting the right types of wrecks make certain types of poems (ode, elegy, limericks, etc)
finally, boss battles are... nights of poetry on some random planet, where one would pick up a GH/RB controller type thing to keep the rythm of the poem going (which also keeps the attention of the crowd up)
Insane idea, I know :P

I remember space flight games. My X45 flight controller is still sitting in the basement, unused, and that's after I went to the trouble to fix the damn thing (Saitek's shoddy craftsmanship shines through once again).

If there is anything I had been hoping for in the "Shiny Graphics" era of gaming, it was a game where the sole objective is to blow shit up with space ships. Naturally, like every other low-key game type I enjoyed it went extinct. Hell, I haven't seen a joystick in retail since 2007. What the hell happened?

It was fun burning hours away in LANs with X-Wing Alliance. The feeling of doing attack runs with your wingman, engaging the enemy starfighter screen and after a grueling exercise of shaking the enemy's guns getting that sweet sound of a missile lock and then pulling the trigger. Far more exhilarating than headshotting slow-moving-FPS target #440 and teabagging them.
Or doing strafing runs on ground targets in other games. Loved that too.

Of the three dream-games I would want to create if given unlimited time talent and money, one of them would be a game where your objective is to achieve space superiority through whatever methods necessary. A toolbox for space combat.

Ranging from the simple fighter dogfight, to a skirmish between a capital class ship and a group of crafty pirates, to full scale warfare where the player can control a potential variety of units with objectives that range from destroying enemy ships/fighters to boarding enemy ships and taking them over in first person (is it not ironic that most Space Marines in games today are rarely found defending ships? You know, like how the original Marines did?)

Sadly, the words "Not profitable enough" reign supreme in the gaming world.

I imagine Yahtzee will be keeping it simple, and that's fine. Simplicity is a lost art.
It would be unfortunate if he tried to go overboard and lose his sanity like the guy who did Battlecruiser: Millennium (I have never seen a game with over 900 shortcuts before).

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