243: Guerilla Warfare

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Guerilla Warfare

Red Faction: Guerilla lets players level entire city blocks with little more than a sledgehammer, yet players must still worry about health bars and limited ammo. But Jaz McDougall has had enough of this developer oppression, and he's decided to throw off his shackles the only way he can: by rewriting the rules of the game.

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You want a game that ENCOURAGES rule breaking?

Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts.

Anyway, the built in cheats in RF:G more than made up for it. Super Hammer, Super Health, Super Jetpack, Infinite Ammo, all that good shit.

That was a very good read.
Sandbox games can be good with no cheats activated, but put them on and the real fun begins

I was initially unimpressed and bored with RF:G due mainly to the reasons you mention. It was too easy to die and the frustration of having my mayhem cut short was wearing on me. Then I set the difficulty to low where it became nearly impossible to die and my enjoyment of the game skyrocketed.

I normally dont condone cheating, but RF:G almost begged for it.

I had the displeasure of actually playing through and beating the game normally, my regret: not getting it for the PC.

I'd consider this to be cheating in it's highest form: creating a new game to play with it's own pleasures and challenges. Realism is good in it's own way, but surrealism can be highly entertaining as well and should not be underrated.

Red Faction Guerrilla is a pretty prime example of this phenomenon. I was very excited about it pre-release, but once I got to playing it I realized it was thickly layered under a story I could not bring myself to care about (because it certainly wasn't why I was drawn to the game) and some stringent rules about Alec Mason's fragile mortality. I wound up tiring of it pretty fast.

This strikes a cord with a lot of sandbox games - I remember recently playing Assassin's Creed 2 recently and wishing the characters would just shut up, because all I wanted was to romp around as a dude in the renaissance who climbed buildings and stabbed people. The worst offender is Prototype, which goes out of its way to find ways to kill you, with a difficulty curve that seems extremely offended by your desire to be stronger than your NPC opponents. There's even a whole level where you lose almost all your powers and it takes half a dozen missions just to get them back. And it also is constantly shoveling an incredibly bland, poorly told story down your throat, full of misplaced cliches and the most insanely convoluted method of exposition I've ever seen.
The fact is, with most sandbox games, I don't want a narrative or a complex character to play as; I just want an intricate world that reacts dynamically to my behavior.

Fingers crossed for Red Dead Redemption.

mechanixis:

Fingers crossed for Red Dead Redemption.

You're not going to be able to fire your gun at someone until you hear the opponents life story.

Onyx Oblivion:

mechanixis:

Fingers crossed for Red Dead Redemption.

You're not going to be able to fire your gun at someone until you hear the opponents life story.

Also your character is susceptible to all diseases of the time period, and should you come down with one you must lie in an in-game infirmary bed in real-time until you recover.

mechanixis:

Onyx Oblivion:

mechanixis:

Fingers crossed for Red Dead Redemption.

You're not going to be able to fire your gun at someone until you hear the opponents life story.

Also your character is susceptible to all diseases of the time period, and should you come down with one you must lie in an in-game infirmary bed in real-time until you recover.

And the nurses are ugly.

God the thing that annoyed me about RF:G was the total lack of story. Running around and blowing stuff up was fun, but it felt fairly pointless with the flimsy story and character.

RF:G could have been a great game, only if it wasn't so repetitive (missions), and also the story felt very short if you put aside the secondary missions... the multiplayer is great Fun, but let's hope that in 5 to 10 years they don't bring down those servers (which are messed up, cause it finds you servers instead of you choosing which one you want to play) in exchange for those of the Sequel of Red Faction Guerilla...

I hated playing Red Faction: Guerilla. It was a complete pain in the ass. Reading this gave me some motivation to play it again...

Do you mind if I ask where to find the trainer in question? Sounds like a lot of fun.

someboredguy:
Do you mind if I ask where to find the trainer in question? Sounds like a lot of fun.

same here

Yes..... so remove balancing and what not and don't worry about making a game but a "experience".

IMO this is dumbing things down to much you are making a game not a film or a bit of flash and bang to consume and forget.... Bioshock had no balance or pacing and that destroyed the game for me and this modern design emphasis on streamlined experiences is just making me hate shallow modern games all the more.....

"But no matter how thoroughly you might enjoy Niko Bellic's struggle against his psychopathic tendencies in your first play through of Grand Theft Auto 4, you don't return to Liberty City to have a quiet stroll or go clothes shopping."

Am I the only one who thought "If you want to go clothes shopping, you play No More Heroes!"?

duckfi8:

someboredguy:
Do you mind if I ask where to find the trainer in question? Sounds like a lot of fun.

same here

I nabbed it from cheathappens.com. It's the "mega trainer" by a team called Reloaded (I think). I've had trouble getting it to work with the steam version since RF:G was patched - you need some sort of premium membership to get the latest version of that particular trainer. Still, it was good while it lasted.

ZippyDSMlee:
Yes..... so remove balancing and what not and don't worry about making a game but a "experience".

IMO this is dumbing things down to much you are making a game not a film or a bit of flash and bang to consume and forget.... Bioshock had no balance or pacing and that destroyed the game for me and this modern design emphasis on streamlined experiences is just making me hate shallow modern games all the more.....

I know what you mean. There is a fine line to walk here, because sitting down to just burn through all the content with some cheats can be dull too.

I wrote this because, by ridding yourself of the annoyance of the game's basic challenges, you can enter a meta-game and try to set yourself loftier goals. One of the coolest things I did that I couldn't fit into the theme of this piece was low-gravity-hammer-only mode. Essentially, I limited myself to the hammer and went sailing around the vertical space of the areas to complete objectives. The main challenge I set myself was to lure down a helicopter and try to smash it with the hammer. I didn't manage - your jump isn't infinite, even with the altered gravity - but I did get close by precision-hopping across the environment and finding a nice high mountain. I felt like Thor. There's something unique to sandbox games that makes them very well suited to this type of thing, too.

I was just reading Jim Rossignol talking about something similar over at RPS, and it certainly feeds into this discussion: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/02/28/counting-for-taste/

Jazmeister:
you need some sort of premium membership to get the latest version of that particular trainer.

Yes, they usually keep the trainers of the most recentt version of popular games only for paying members because they only produce trainers from games legally bought (they don't use pirated games for example), and the servers cost some money to keep up, that's why they changed to that way some years ago.

But honestly, for people who play many games, the lifetime membership is worth it: within days of the games or updates being released, they already have working trainers, without the risk of viruses you'd get from p2p, and they only do singleplayer games, so it's not helping scripts kiddies looking for messing in online games.

Onyx Oblivion:
You want a game that ENCOURAGES rule breaking?.

There is "The path" as well. It was funny to see how many people complained about the demo because they actually followed the "do not go in the forest !" objective, which finishes the demo in two minutes without seeing anything :-D

I like the way Mercenaries: Playground of Destruction handled it.

Cheat Codes, plus Indiana Jones skin, plop 8 C4 onto your jeep, aim at Koreans, detonate and let fly.

Special mention also goes out the the city leveling portable nuke launcher.

The problem with the in-game codes in Red Faction Guerrilla, which you earned by completing achievements, is that turning them on made it impossible to save your progress. Why reward us with things we then cannot use to play the game with Volition?

Anyways, I never felt the need for codes in that game because I solved all my problems with rampant smashing, and I would systematically destroy every single EDF structure in any given zone before even attempting any of the missions (and if starting one respawned those buildings, I would just blow them up again). Missions are the things you do after you've exhausted all the glorious destruction potential - the game is about blowing stuff up.

Or dissolving it, damn was the nano-rifle ever cool.

I lost count of how many vehicles I mined and then drove into structures, only to trigger the explosives after I bailed out of them at high speed, whee! And the bombs, oh the bombs! Those were always a blast - nothing quite like attaching a leftover tactical nuke to your truck and crashing it into an office complex.

Jazmeister:

duckfi8:

someboredguy:
Do you mind if I ask where to find the trainer in question? Sounds like a lot of fun.

same here

I nabbed it from cheathappens.com. It's the "mega trainer" by a team called Reloaded (I think). I've had trouble getting it to work with the steam version since RF:G was patched - you need some sort of premium membership to get the latest version of that particular trainer. Still, it was good while it lasted.

ZippyDSMlee:
Yes..... so remove balancing and what not and don't worry about making a game but a "experience".

IMO this is dumbing things down to much you are making a game not a film or a bit of flash and bang to consume and forget.... Bioshock had no balance or pacing and that destroyed the game for me and this modern design emphasis on streamlined experiences is just making me hate shallow modern games all the more.....

I know what you mean. There is a fine line to walk here, because sitting down to just burn through all the content with some cheats can be dull too.

I wrote this because, by ridding yourself of the annoyance of the game's basic challenges, you can enter a meta-game and try to set yourself loftier goals. One of the coolest things I did that I couldn't fit into the theme of this piece was low-gravity-hammer-only mode. Essentially, I limited myself to the hammer and went sailing around the vertical space of the areas to complete objectives. The main challenge I set myself was to lure down a helicopter and try to smash it with the hammer. I didn't manage - your jump isn't infinite, even with the altered gravity - but I did get close by precision-hopping across the environment and finding a nice high mountain. I felt like Thor. There's something unique to sandbox games that makes them very well suited to this type of thing, too.

I was just reading Jim Rossignol talking about something similar over at RPS, and it certainly feeds into this discussion: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/02/28/counting-for-taste/

Well Bioshock and fallout 3 for me are lulz fests there is little true build direction for the mechanics and it just kills me because that is why I play games is to enjoy the mechanics the story and lights and flashes are secondary to that and these days the flash bang and pretty is all thats focused on unless of course the story gets a bigger budget than the game play.

I really hate trying to crate a play style that makes the game worth playing, now on the other hand give me a game enhancer and can make any crap fest or lulzy poorly built game fun, devs should take a page from game enhancers and sell tweakable cheats(each cheat has 4 or 6 versions of it thus you can select,sub select,ect to build a custom rule set) via the consoles online stores...at least there is something there that can try and fix a bad product.

mechanixis:

The fact is, with most sandbox games, I don't want a narrative or a complex character to play as; I just want an intricate world that reacts dynamically to my behavior.

I want this in most games make it fun to play within well tuned mechanics and the rest dose not really matter....

I had the exact realization while playing RF: wouldn't this be more fun if I was really set loose to wreak mayhem? The closest it gets to this is the Wrecking Crew mode, but those small maps and time limits don't let the true potential shine.

I ended up reducing the difficulty so at least I could spend more time smashing things and less hiding. It's too bad because I think they were very close to realizing a good back story, unfortunately it ends up wanting you to be a one-man SWAT team, not a sneaky guerrilla saboteur or raging anarchist that would have better fit the destructo-world.

I think there is a balance that needs to be struck, however. Partly it is bucking the in-game-world "rules" and going crazy that is so much fun. I find, like in GTA, this is great for a while. But I think it would rapidly loose its charm if there weren't some more structured goals that also exist, something that makes the world itself more alive and believable.

I recently wrote a scathing review of RF:G that made more or less the same point. The game puts all that destruction physics in there and then sics a bunch of invincible soldiers at us so we can't enjoy it. Even the destruction challenges were lame, since most of them involved not 'here is a bunch of rockets, blow up that convention center' and instead 'here is a single rocket, two proximity mines, and a paperclip, can you destroy that anti-nuclear bunker on the other side of the mountain with them?'

To me, this is a game design failure. You have to understand what your game wants to talk about and let him speak. If your game speaks of mindless fun, do not force him to speak of something else. This is my main beef with GTAIV. Sure, it's one of the games with deepest stories and most compelling characters in this gen, and the realistic driving and shooting are part of it. But it didn't want to be that. GTA wants to be blow uppy fun. So even if mixing the dire tone of the story and the cheerful tone of the gameplay of previous GTA's would weaken the story, it would strenghten the gameplay, leading to a better game overall - especially because gameplay is what makes games unique, so no matter how much a good story is necessary if you want games to break out of their current space marine obsession, it needs to be done within a gameplay parameter. Otherwise, you're making movies.

I don't think cheating is a good way out of this, but it's certainly a way to savage a dev's failure. Still, I don't want to do their jobs. But at least, cheating on RF:G is better than cheating on GTAIV. God, didn't they let anyone play that game before they released it? To activate a health cheat you need to navigate the needlessly complex cell phone menu that doesn't pause the game and if you get shot Nico gives up and you have to start over. How do you screw that up?

It's funny, my first inclination when that starting-tutorial began was to kill that guy. It was like, the minute he started talking, *WHACK*! And then I got a game over screen and a cute admonishment telling me not to do that. But it was overshadowed by the epiphany of WHACKing people with blunt objects. I think I "lost" the tutorial two more times before I finally got around to playing the actual game, my friends and I laughing maniacally each time. I was a horrible freedom fighter, "accidentally" killing as many of my comrades as enemies.

Wish I'd gotten it for the PC instead. Would've lost the natural audience (consoles promote back-seat-gaming more than any other format - which I love being part of), but the cheating might've been worth it.

RF:G could have been a much better game with a few changes:

A smaller map with less empty terrain

A lighter tone, the sombre dark story didn't mix well with the joyful destruction

More very large buildings, a couple of half-built skyscrapers was a bit unsatisfying

Oh yeah, I play the Mercenaries games the same way. Pandemic even listed every cheat for the second game on their website as a way to say "here's how to break the rules, go nuts". There is a special kind of fun that can be had when you cover a jeep in C4, drive at full speed toward the Chinese headquarters in the game (a large castle), ramp up the front steps as you hop out, and detonate all of it as the jeep collides with the top of the building. Plus, throughout this whole stunt you are a tattooed viking dressed in a chicken suit...

Something mindless about this article rubs me wrong. I hear too much about how RF:G is 'mayhem incarnate, lol' - and so very little about some of the amazingly innovative technologies and design choices Volition made for this project.

Personally I modded the whole damn game for intensity and realism X.x It was too HARD to die in any of the normal difficulties. There was plenty of freedom for experimentation.

As a kid, I burnt myself out by cheating every game I played, toying with ragdolls in hitman for months, testing every aspect of physics and violence and AI behaviour in Half-Life, Unreal and Soldier of Fortune...

... I burnt out. All I want now is intense, immersive and realistic games that challenge skills and intellect >.<

Edit: Oh gods, I just read more of this thread. You're all vile abberations! You're all twisted and insane! Why are you criticising one of the best and most original games since the 90s by saying it's too difficult and serious! D:

Onyx Oblivion:
Super Hammer

Possibly one of the greatest cheats in a game ever - The feeling of pure power as men, women, vehicles and buildings flew away in the awe of your mighty sledgehammer.

OT: Yeah I have it on ps3 so no trainer for me, buuuut it's true I would've enjoyed more free-form destruction. Yes. Even more than we already got.

More built-up areas would've been cool.

Ah well, Red Faction Guerilla 2?

A game I think is a prime example of this is Superman: Shadow of Apokolips. It's really a pretty great game... once you've turned on the Invulnerability cheat. The game is still quite challenging, because there are time limits to most of the stages or people/things you need to protect, so you can still fail, but you can no longer fail by being beaten into submission. Minor enemies become threats only to those you need to defend and heavier attacks (like rockets, for instance) will still send you sprawling, which fits a Superman setup perfectly.
For all its other flaws, this was the one thing that Superman Returns got right: Superman doesn't get beat up, but he needs to worry about the safety of others.

The greatest human emotion next to love is hate, and the greatest alleviation? Unbridled and complete release of all anger. With sandbox games like Guerrilla, where your basically in a play-land from hell, full of large buildings and larger piles of explosives, it screams therapeutic.

Yes i want games with Cheats built in back! whatever did happen to cheat codes? y do i have to pay Cheathappens for trainers! >.< Devs give me my in game cheats back!

RFG is damn fun when u just want to fool around XD

Onyx Oblivion:

mechanixis:

Onyx Oblivion:

mechanixis:

Fingers crossed for Red Dead Redemption.

You're not going to be able to fire your gun at someone until you hear the opponents life story.

Also your character is susceptible to all diseases of the time period, and should you come down with one you must lie in an in-game infirmary bed in real-time until you recover.

And the nurses are ugly.

You sick, sick people! How do you come up with this?!

This is scary. It's almost verbatim what I did with this game. I fucking loved it. Could have done without all that boring plot mess though.

This is probably the only game I've ever said that about.

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