Burton's Busts

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Le Tueur:
I've skipped almost all of Burton's movies, I can't really understand why, like Bay, he gets so much hype behind his movies.

Isnt that because he is GOOD??

Sweeny Todd, Edward Scissor-Hands and various others are all my deepest favourite movies and i can safely say that they rank higher then Twilight and Newmoon, both of which have to come second to any Tim Burton movie that has Johnny Depp and even better, Johnny Depp with Helena Bonham Carter ^^ excellent actor/actresse and i love them both. Not totally sure if im going to like Alice in Wonderland as previous ones have been good already and this one just seems... OTT for my liking.

Is a director using the same actors in his movies such a bad thing? Every time I hear people complaining about Burton re-using Depp and Carter, I can't help but think of Osamu Tezuka's method of placing characters he created into different roles within his all of his books. He equated this to a director using the same actors in his movies in order to create a sort of mythology surrounding the director's resume. Burton does this, Kevin Smith does this, and it's worked for them.

i agree completely, for the most part. i hated charlie and the chocolate factory. admittedly, i wasn't a massive fan of the original, but it was still SO much better than the new one. johnny depps performance was depressing and it was magnified by the fact that the movie was focused around him instead of CHARLIE - who is IN THE FUCKING TITLE. granted - charlies performance was just as bad, so maybe it was a good thing:S

Regarding Charlie, I liked it myself, but it was really a very hit or miss thing for a lot of people and very understandably so (and even though I liked it, there are some creep factors that do creep a bit too much--but then, is it possible to creep too much in an adaptation of a Roald Dahl story?)

I will quibble with one criticism: Mike TeeVee's sin was NOT being intelligent. Mike TeeVee's sin was taking his intelligence and using it to behave in real life like a troll does on the Internet: nitpicking over silly things, belittling others around him, and trying to draw attention to himself for no good reason, rather than apply his intellect to being helpful or useful.

Back to the article at hand... to be fair, I also enjoyed the Batman films, especially Returns, even for all its flaws.

So the article's informed me I probably will like Alice in Wonderland in general, but balk at a few details.

I disagree about the Batman movies, although I do agree they are flawed. Returns more than the original. But not the director's worst. (Well, maybe for Returns) To replace them, I would offer the following:

Mars Attacks was joyless and just plain stupid. It was about as funny as making salad dressing out of hamsters.

A second replacement is not as easy to pick. Edward Scissorhands was dull and uninspired (masterpiece?). Sweeny Todd would have been better without the songs. Don't make Johnny Depp sing ever again. But I'll have to go with Corpse bride as this was a movie with no reason to be. It brought nothing new to the table. Told no story worth hearing and showed that Burton's style was now becoming a cliche. What was once fresh is now stale. I do not think he will ever recover from that.

I honestly enjoyed Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Not really for the movie but I more or less enjoyed the songs and the bright colors. Yes occasionally you can win me over with pretty sparkly things on a screen.

DemonicKitten:

Le Tueur:
I've skipped almost all of Burton's movies, I can't really understand why, like Bay, he gets so much hype behind his movies.

Isnt that because he is GOOD??

Sweeny Todd, Edward Scissor-Hands and various others are all my deepest favourite movies and i can safely say that they rank higher then Twilight and Newmoon, both of which have to come second to any Tim Burton movie that has Johnny Depp and even better, Johnny Depp with Helena Bonham Carter ^^ excellent actor/actresse and i love them both. Not totally sure if im going to like Alice in Wonderland as previous ones have been good already and this one just seems... OTT for my liking.

So then his movies beat out something that ranks at zero? Anything to compared Twilight is a masterpeice in my eyes. I could stare at a wall for seven hours stright and still call it better than watching that raw sewage people call a movie series. I'm sorry but I have no mercy for justifying how "good" he is by simply using your own opinion. Show me reviews, show me examples, show me some kind of justification that he is a "good" director. Till then he is just another director.

Latinidiot:
wha-

but I liked Charlie!

I'm figuring if he hated Charlie I'll probably like Alice.

the antithesis:
I disagree about the Batman movies, although I do agree they are flawed. Returns more than the original. But not the director's worst. (Well, maybe for Returns) To replace them, I would offer the following:

Mars Attacks was joyless and just plain stupid. It was about as funny as making salad dressing out of hamsters.

A second replacement is not as easy to pick. Edward Scissorhands was dull and uninspired (masterpiece?). Sweeny Todd would have been better without the songs. Don't make Johnny Depp sing ever again. But I'll have to go with Corpse bride as this was a movie with no reason to be. It brought nothing new to the table. Told no story worth hearing and showed that Burton's style was now becoming a cliche. What was once fresh is now stale. I do not think he will ever recover from that.

Yeah I figured Corpse Bride would be the number 1 worst movie.

It had no climax, no drive, no real emotion to it. I kept watching it waiting for the story to start.

Just imagine if Planet of the Apes had been done up with all of this Gothic carnival glory with Depp as the Spaceman. It wouldn't have been forgettable, and it would have been unforgivably mismatched in premise-meets-style.

Yes Planet of the Apes was a terrible failure and should have been given to someone else to be done, like Johnathan Frakes (who directed Star Trek: First Contact) or Peter Jackson (who at the time was affordable but would have jumped at the chance to show off some epic-ness).

michael_sturtridge92:
i agree completely, for the most part. i hated charlie and the chocolate factory. admittedly, i wasn't a massive fan of the original, but it was still SO much better than the new one. johnny depps performance was depressing and it was magnified by the fact that the movie was focused around him instead of CHARLIE - who is IN THE FUCKING TITLE. granted - charlies performance was just as bad, so maybe it was a good thing:S

Charlie was boring and so moral as to be annoying too. Really that story was all over the place too. I don't know, it just sucked, though I have my own issues with the original.

I really think Burton needs to get some new friends in Hollywood. I'm starting to get a little tired of the same lineup of actors in each Burton film. It's nice that Depp can remain comfortable in the knowledge that, as long as Burton is still making movies, he'll always have a job in the acting profession. But, when it gets the point where the audience can usually accurately guess the director of a film based only on its actors, then it's time to start looking around for a new line-up.

For the record, I rather liked Batman. That said, I watched it ages ago, so I guess my opinion could conceivably have skewed over the years. Note to self: rent Batman.

As much as I hate to say, Burton has lost my interest of late. Even Sweeney just didn't do it for me, really his last real hit with me was Sleepy Hollow, which managed to be a good gothic horror flick with just enough Burton style as to be Burton, but not so much as to drown in curvy plant tendrils. Another one is Kevin Smith (particularly with Zack and Miri, though Cop Out looks to be following), it's like this generation has run out of steam so they're coasting by on what got them their initial fame and hoping it keeps them afloat. Which is a shame, Burton used to be a fairly reliable go-to guy for a decent movie.

This obsession with Depp and Carter doesn't help. Director/actor pairings can work. Look at Scorsese/DeNiro and now DiCaprio, or Herzog/Kinski. But Burton/Depp/Carter just doesn't work. He puts too much weight on Depp's shoulders, when even a fellow like him needs something to work with, and Carter is... well, I guess he wants to keep getting laid.

Warachia:
wasn't there supposed to be FOUR others? There are only 3 (four including alice) where's the fifth?

Apes, Factory, 2 batman movies and the one I don't remember.

I see 5.

Also, the only reason I didn't hate Chocolate Factory is because I love Johnny Depp... as a dude, but you get the idea. Movies can suck, but Depp is awesome on his own.

I liked Charlie only because it was closer to the source material than the other one. Having said that, I couldn't get over the fact that Depp essentially did the same fucking role that he did in Ed Wood. I half-expected him to tell the children that he likes to wear women's clothes and that his mother used to dress him up like a girl.

I've read the comments on your Alice review. I recall seeing only 1 person who agreed with you. I'll also take personal offence, as Burton is one of 3 American directors I can even tollerate. Plus, I own every movie & animated version of Alice ever made, & they're ALL good.

Allright, I disagree with 3 out of the 4. Planet of the Apes was the only one I agreed with...and Batman Returns I halfway agree with. Mind you, I never read any Batman Comics, so I don't know much about the source material.

Cabin Boy would have to be my pick as the worst movie he's ever done. I saw it about ten years ago, and I don't want to rewatch it to see if it's any better.

Corpse Bride is the most boring thing I have ever seen.

I like the rest of them, even Ed Wood which I thought I wouldn't. Although I haven't seen Big Fish.

Sometimes I swear you read too much into things, over analyze, and over criticize, but your a critic. So that goes hand in hand.

theultimateend:

Latinidiot:
wha-

but I liked Charlie!

I'm figuring if he hated Charlie I'll probably like Alice.

the antithesis:
I disagree about the Batman movies, although I do agree they are flawed. Returns more than the original. But not the director's worst. (Well, maybe for Returns) To replace them, I would offer the following:

Mars Attacks was joyless and just plain stupid. It was about as funny as making salad dressing out of hamsters.

A second replacement is not as easy to pick. Edward Scissorhands was dull and uninspired (masterpiece?). Sweeny Todd would have been better without the songs. Don't make Johnny Depp sing ever again. But I'll have to go with Corpse bride as this was a movie with no reason to be. It brought nothing new to the table. Told no story worth hearing and showed that Burton's style was now becoming a cliche. What was once fresh is now stale. I do not think he will ever recover from that.

Yeah I figured Corpse Bride would be the number 1 worst movie.

It had no climax, no drive, no real emotion to it. I kept watching it waiting for the story to start.

Corpse Bride is actually better the 2ed time you see it (making it the polar opposite of the Matrix).

Nightfalke:
Hrm. Guess I have to rewatch the original Batman... Don't remember it being THAT bad.

I still feel that Keaton was the best Batman, period.

I thought so too, but he was the dweebiest looking Bruce Wayne.

Great read bob. Always like you insight on the movie world.

Dr. Dan Challis:
Burton's Busts? Try his entire career (excepting Ed Wood and, maybe, Sweeney Todd).

Edward scissorhands? Beetlejuice? Sleepy hollow? The nightmare before christmas?

skylog:
Is a director using the same actors in his movies such a bad thing? Every time I hear people complaining about Burton re-using Depp and Carter, I can't help but think of Osamu Tezuka's method of placing characters he created into different roles within his all of his books. He equated this to a director using the same actors in his movies in order to create a sort of mythology surrounding the director's resume. Burton does this, Kevin Smith does this, and it's worked for them.

To make a gaming reference, you could also compare this to Square using many of the same names for characters, spells, and equipment. If you're playing a Square game and your mage learns Ultima, you know he's gonna start kicking some ass, and when you meet Cid you know the airship is parked outside.

I thoroughly enjoyed Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, and more than anything I like that Burton is not afraid to ignore the original story and instead go where his heart leads him. I mean, if I want the story told to me exactly like the book, I'd read the damn book.

Also, Check out the book of Poetry "The Melancholy Death of Oyster Boy" for a real brilliant look at some contemporary poetry.

I would place Planet of The Apes on the number one spot any day of the year cause yeah, I almost forgot that happened. Liked both Charlie and the 1989 Batman. Liked when he used the batclaw to steer the Batmobile. My favorite scene as a kid. Also this:

'My face on the one dollar bill'

The Youth Counselor:
but I'm glad to know he hasn't inhaled the dangerous drug of nostalgia.

You should check out his overthinker vids, when it comes to video games he does nothing but...0o

Nomanslander:

The Youth Counselor:
but I'm glad to know he hasn't inhaled the dangerous drug of nostalgia.

You should check out his overthinker vids, when it comes to video games he does nothing but...0o

I've watched them all.

Batman wasn't bad. How dare you Moviebob.

WafflesToo:
BTW, thank you very little for making Scarecrow permament second-rate cannon fodder... jerks

Scarecrow has been a bit of a joke for a lot longer than that. From remarks about him being useless without his fear gas to him getting blamed for stuff he didn't do (in Living Hell), references to the Scarecrow not being taken serious as a top-tier villain pop up every now and then in the comics.

I liked to sit down, turn on Charlie (Burton version) and just let my mind drip out my head

The soundtrack was particularly awesome when you don't pay an ounce of attention

there were some elements of his aesthetic in Planet of the Apes. In the ape costumes (armor and such) there is the Burtonesque spiral, and the helmets look like many other hats that Burton characters have doned. Still, that's all there is. makes you wonder whether or not Burton was put on a leash for that film to appeal to a larger crowd?

Not to sound like a sheep but I'll be honest with you. I've never been that big of a fan of Tim Burton. I just think he's a shit director. His characters are never really all that deep and even when they do have depth it's usually because it's an adaptation of other source material with deeper characters. The story can some times be lacking and the plot can make very little sense. On the bright side I do like his artistic style but that doesn't excuse the other faults.

I also thought The Nightmare Before Christmas was the biggest pile of over-rated shit on this planet. I just don't see the appeal, yeah a few nice songs and the stop-mo is pretty good but other then that?. I just don't see how it became popular, the titular character less complex then a disney hero. But what do I know I'll probably get flamed by the hard core fans just for mentioning this. On the other hand I did like Sweeney Todd.

jabrwock:
Burton just needs to find a good writer to shepherd him. Guide his random scenes into a more coherent overall story.

I concur with this. As a director, his visual styles are flowing and graceful, but his stories lines are often rats nests, nested inside entire nests of rats. Funnily enough, when the screenplay is original, the movie is usually good. Look at the list. All of them are reworks of existing material, whereas stuff like sweeney todd, nightmare, and edward scissorhands were all firsts as far as I know and they were great.

If you seriously put Batman and Charlie And The Chocolate Factory on the list of Burton's worst films together with the new Alice, then it sound like I can look forward to a really good movie when I watch it tomorrow.

I'd completely agree on Planet Of The Apes if I'd ever been able to bring myself to watch it though.

I had tried to watch Batman a while back, and I emphasize the word "tried."

After having become engrossed into the comics for about a year now, and revisiting the old animated series, I couldn't sit all the way through Batman. It just didn't work for me, at all. I can state out the obvious about the whole "Joker killed the Waynes" shtick, but that would be too easy. But, I can't really nail down what I don't like about the film anymore.

It's an instance where you watch something from your childhood and it doesn't even hold up as well as you remember. Now, I'm not saying Batman Begins is perfection incarnate; I'm saying I agree with Movie Bob that the film hasn't aged very well.

EDIT: never mind

oops. double post

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