Zero Punctuation: Heavy Rain

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maximara:

A1:

JaredXE:

A1:

delta46:
WAnk!
wank !
Wank!
Wank!

I'm glad that someone saw it was just a big quicktime event

Excuse me? At what point did Yahtzee actually describe the game as such?

I believe it's the part where he says the QTE's are the core, skin, seed and whole fucking apple tree of the game.

But that's because I payed attention.

I payed attention to that too. He never uses the words "a big quicktime event".

And sorry if I come off as rude but it seems that you're just using your own preconceived idea as an interpretation of Yahtzee's words. One could just as easily say that Yahtzee means that QTEs are a very essential part of the game. This would seem to be an especially valid interpretation in light of the fact that he also indicates that QTE's are not the only part of the game.

Based on how Yahtzee started the review I would say the 2:00 to 2:08 part *does* give the impression the game is a long series of QTE in the tradition of an interactive movie with not much in the interactivity department. Hence the comment about the movie reviewer wondering why the "movie" is 10 hours long.

A long series of QTEs certainly seems to be a fair enough description. But one big QTE? I think not.

Darks63:
When i saw the review supplement for Heavy Rain I knew Yaz would rip it a new one, I was not disapointed.

Not quite. He does have some notably positive things to say about the game and he never really addresses the question of whether it's good or bad. In other words he's being ambiguous again. I hate it when this happens.

geldonyetich:

ForgottenPr0digy:
I'm surprised Yathzee actually like the game

Interesting interpretation of, "as a game, it's a stack of poo poo pancakes."

That's pretty much what I derived from researching it, really. It's not so much a game as it is a cinematic experience. Then, it's not so much a cinematic experience as it is a movie with some elements of interactions being rendered on PS3 hardware.

On the other hard, it did make Yahtzee highly uncomfortable, so it served as an excellent game for a Zero Punctuation review.

He also says the game gets getter better later. This is not a negative review. It's a mixed and somewhat ambiguous one. Hopefully he'll clarify himself with his next extra punctuation article.

mesoforte:

A1:

JaredXE:

A1:

delta46:
WAnk!
wank !
Wank!
Wank!

I'm glad that someone saw it was just a big quicktime event

Excuse me? At what point did Yahtzee actually describe the game as such?

I believe it's the part where he says the QTE's are the core, skin, seed and whole fucking apple tree of the game.

But that's because I payed attention.

I payed attention to that too. He never uses the words "a big quicktime event".

And sorry if I come off as rude but it seems that you're just using your own preconceived idea as an interpretation of Yahtzee's words. One could just as easily say that Yahtzee means that QTEs are a very essential part of the game. This would seem to be an especially valid interpretation in light of the fact that he also indicates that QTE's are not the only part of the game.

I wonder if this is how cults get started.

Nice.

A1:

geldonyetich:

ForgottenPr0digy:
I'm surprised Yathzee actually like the game

Interesting interpretation of, "as a game, it's a stack of poo poo pancakes."

That's pretty much what I derived from researching it, really. It's not so much a game as it is a cinematic experience. Then, it's not so much a cinematic experience as it is a movie with some elements of interactions being rendered on PS3 hardware.

On the other hard, it did make Yahtzee highly uncomfortable, so it served as an excellent game for a Zero Punctuation review.

He also says the game gets getter better later. This is not a negative review. It's a mixed and somewhat ambiguous one. Hopefully he'll clarify himself with his next extra punctuation article.

That wasn't ambiguous to me. It gets better and better as something other than a game. It's as much a stack of poo poo pancakes at the beginning of the review as it is at the end of the review, as long as you're looking at it from the perspective of gameplay as opposed to cinematic experience. This is backed up with everything Yahtzee said from the beginning to the end of the review, from the poor pacing, to how the movement was handled, to how the ending was so linear.

I'm only a few hours into the game... it's really lame that it's the same person everytime. I was hoping extra playthroughs would get me a different killer as well. Boo on that.

I want to thank you Yahtzee for not spoiling the identity of the killer...
Fuck, it hurts to say thank you.

No, no not fahrenheit (for more of my views on fahrenheit go to my post of "What would it be like if we had QTEs in real life).
Seriously the first few chapters were cool, a murder that you didn't know why you'd committed which turns into a stupid story about... who cares. There appear to be three different endings none of which have anything to do with the murder and what happens in the story doesn't change regardless of what you do at the crime scene (I'm considering playing it again cos I have the theory that if you don't save the kid from drowning something else will happen, though I doubt it. Bits I hate the most; the Storm, the balancing bit, the stupid helicopter scene...

Has the Avatar game come out in your country yet? Because ... it's a crap game.

Has the Avatar game come out in your country yet? Because ... it's a crap game.

Has the Avatar game come out in your country yet? Because ... it's a crap game.

geldonyetich:

A1:

geldonyetich:

ForgottenPr0digy:
I'm surprised Yathzee actually like the game

Interesting interpretation of, "as a game, it's a stack of poo poo pancakes."

That's pretty much what I derived from researching it, really. It's not so much a game as it is a cinematic experience. Then, it's not so much a cinematic experience as it is a movie with some elements of interactions being rendered on PS3 hardware.

On the other hard, it did make Yahtzee highly uncomfortable, so it served as an excellent game for a Zero Punctuation review.

He also says the game gets getter better later. This is not a negative review. It's a mixed and somewhat ambiguous one. Hopefully he'll clarify himself with his next extra punctuation article.

That wasn't ambiguous to me. It gets better and better as something other than a game. It's as much a stack of poo poo pancakes at the beginning of the review as it is at the end of the review, as long as you're looking at it from the perspective of gameplay as opposed to cinematic experience. This is backed up with everything Yahtzee said from the beginning to the end of the review, from the poor pacing, to how the movement was handled, to how the ending was so linear.

Okay, the words that leap out at me here are "to me". That's a rather interesting interpretation you have there but Yahtzee never actually says "as something other than a game", and for that matter he doesn't use the word "linear" even once throughout the entire review. Sorry if this comes off as rude but it seems that you're just putting words in Yahtzee's mouth. Or in other words you seem to be interpreting his review in such a way as to make it match up with your own opinion.

But seriously, going back and forth on this subject is pointless because none of us can actually prove anything. The only person who truly knows what Yahtzee is saying is Yahtzee himself. The only thing we can do is wait for Yahtzee to clarify himself through one of his Extra Punctuation articles. And personally I'm very much looking forward to reading it.

I bought Heavy Rain and after completing the game I say it's a revelation :).
The only flaw of the game are some little problems with the scenario, I mean some minor things just aren't explained. I hope that Quantic Dream will release a DLC that will fill inn the gaps.
To sum up, I give it 9/10.

Yahtzee, I thought that you will hate HR more because we know that you rather hate QTE which are core of the game ;). That just means what I say: Heavy Rain is great :D.

Looking forward for the God of War III review.

A1:

geldonyetich:

A1:

geldonyetich:

ForgottenPr0digy:
I'm surprised Yathzee actually like the game

Interesting interpretation of, "as a game, it's a stack of poo poo pancakes."

That's pretty much what I derived from researching it, really. It's not so much a game as it is a cinematic experience. Then, it's not so much a cinematic experience as it is a movie with some elements of interactions being rendered on PS3 hardware.

On the other hard, it did make Yahtzee highly uncomfortable, so it served as an excellent game for a Zero Punctuation review.

He also says the game gets getter better later. This is not a negative review. It's a mixed and somewhat ambiguous one. Hopefully he'll clarify himself with his next extra punctuation article.

That wasn't ambiguous to me. It gets better and better as something other than a game. It's as much a stack of poo poo pancakes at the beginning of the review as it is at the end of the review, as long as you're looking at it from the perspective of gameplay as opposed to cinematic experience. This is backed up with everything Yahtzee said from the beginning to the end of the review, from the poor pacing, to how the movement was handled, to how the ending was so linear.

Okay, the words that leap out at me here are "to me". That's a rather interesting interpretation you have there but Yahtzee never actually says "as something other than a game", and for that matter he doesn't use the word "linear" even once throughout the entire review.
[...]

But seriously, going back and forth on this subject is pointless because none of us can actually prove anything. The only person who truly knows what Yahtzee is saying is Yahtzee himself.

You know, I'd be the first person to say I'm tired of the old back and forth, but Yahtzee flat out says "As a game, it's a pile of poo-poo pancakes." Do you really need him to follow that sentence with "As something other than a game, it's not a pile of poo-poo pancakes" before you'll understand that's implied?

I hate to break it to you, but people don't talk that way unless maybe their name is Mojo Jojo.


Further, when he goes into the details of how the game largely is composed of long sequences of fiddle around with the furniture or wait for somebody to flip a switch somewhere in order to progress the story, then you're allowed to take part in a premade quick time event action sequence, and how the murderer doesn't change every time you play, you should be able to understand what's being described to you is largely a linear experience without him specifically mentioning the word "linear."

Are you a plant here to support Heavy Rain? Seriously, there's a maximum tolerance in which you can feign ignorance: respect it.

I can't wait for Heavy Rain, the movie!

chozo_hybrid:
I can't wait for Heavy Rain, the movie!

I can't wait for Heavy Rain: the Game!

RestamSalucard:

chozo_hybrid:
I can't wait for Heavy Rain, the movie!

I can't wait for Heavy Rain: the Game!

That too! Seriously though, I had a go at the game and I wasn't too impressed.

Good point made.

Who walks around with a pocketfull of recording devices and leaves them scattered around like a breadcrumb trail.

As a story advancing/atmosphere setting device its been overused.

OF COURSE YOU WEREN'T GOING TO LIKE THIS, IT IS ALL QUICKTIME EVENTS. MOST PREDICTABLE CRITIQUE EVER!

The producers who made Yahtzee play this game are so lazy. There's a whole host of news games out at the moment, pick another one.

geldonyetich:

A1:

geldonyetich:

A1:

geldonyetich:

ForgottenPr0digy:
I'm surprised Yathzee actually like the game

Interesting interpretation of, "as a game, it's a stack of poo poo pancakes."

That's pretty much what I derived from researching it, really. It's not so much a game as it is a cinematic experience. Then, it's not so much a cinematic experience as it is a movie with some elements of interactions being rendered on PS3 hardware.

On the other hard, it did make Yahtzee highly uncomfortable, so it served as an excellent game for a Zero Punctuation review.

He also says the game gets getter better later. This is not a negative review. It's a mixed and somewhat ambiguous one. Hopefully he'll clarify himself with his next extra punctuation article.

That wasn't ambiguous to me. It gets better and better as something other than a game. It's as much a stack of poo poo pancakes at the beginning of the review as it is at the end of the review, as long as you're looking at it from the perspective of gameplay as opposed to cinematic experience. This is backed up with everything Yahtzee said from the beginning to the end of the review, from the poor pacing, to how the movement was handled, to how the ending was so linear.

Okay, the words that leap out at me here are "to me". That's a rather interesting interpretation you have there but Yahtzee never actually says "as something other than a game", and for that matter he doesn't use the word "linear" even once throughout the entire review.
[...]

But seriously, going back and forth on this subject is pointless because none of us can actually prove anything. The only person who truly knows what Yahtzee is saying is Yahtzee himself.

You know, I'd be the first person to say I'm tired of the old back and forth, but Yahtzee flat out says "As a game, it's a pile of poo-poo pancakes." Do you really need him to follow that sentence with "As something other than a game, it's not a pile of poo-poo pancakes" before you'll understand that's implied?

I hate to break it to you, but people don't talk that way unless maybe their name is Mojo Jojo.


Further, when he goes into the details of how the game largely is composed of long sequences of fiddle around with the furniture or wait for somebody to flip a switch somewhere in order to progress the story, then you're allowed to take part in a premade quick time event action sequence, and how the murderer doesn't change every time you play, you should be able to understand what's being described to you is largely a linear experience without him specifically mentioning the word "linear."

Are you a plant here to support Heavy Rain? Seriously, there's a maximum tolerance in which you can feign ignorance: respect it.

He also says "once it gets going Heavy Rain has some genuinely good bits" and "for what it's worth Heavy Rain does get better later". And therein lies the problem. He has both positive and negative things to say about the game but he never draws any overarching conclusion from all these contrasting comments. He doesn't render a final verdict or give a bottom line. This is what makes the review mixed and ambiguous.

And several of the scenes in the game, of both the QTE and non-QTE varieties, involve choices that can effect the progression and outcome of the story. And while the outcome may always be the same in one particular way, in just about every other way it's quite malleable. Therefore I'm not too sure if "linear" is the best word to describe it. One word perhaps. But the best word? It's hard to say for sure.

I wonder if yahtzee is going to review Just Cause 2 when it comes out.

I mean it has swinging and all, he should check it out.

Mr Thomsos:
So Yahtzee cries for his immersion in video games, then finds something else to cry about once he gets it?

That's what makes his reviews stand up from the rest I guess. I guess he's more of a critic. Pointing out things that are terrible within the things that are 'good'.

The castrated dog, oddly enough, will actually thank you. I can't reveal my sources. Just trust me on this one.

Unfortunately (for everyone but the dog), you will still have the wrist problems.

BGH122:

I bought Heavy Rain at the full whack and it wasn't really worth it. I can see that it'd be great to play as a rental, but that's all. It takes about eight hours to complete it properly and it has zero replayability.

There's more than 22 different endings in the game and by that I don't mean those Fallout 3-type of endings. I've never played another game where your choices could have such a dramatic consequence on the game so it's not exactly fair to say that the game has zero replayability now is it?

Thank you for not going along with all the others reviewers who have given then piece of crap 10's. After playing the game for two hours I was ready to return the game and then the next day I saw all the reviews...9.5, 9.75, 10...I was like 'WHAT'???? Did everyone drink the f****** kool aid??? Anyway thanks for calling crap...crap. :)

The whole consequense claim, is a line of cock and bull. I went through a number of scenes doing different thngs and the bottom line is often times you make different choices and the outcome is exacty the same. I was so dissappointed, they had a chance to do some thing truly unique and instead they mucked it up with bad voice acting, stiff moving animations, a plot with holes as large as the great state of Texas. Vision...10, Intent...10, Execution...0. Heavy Rain...EPIC FAIL.

Mr Thomsos:
So Yahtzee cries for his immersion in video games, then finds something else to cry about once he gets it?

There's more to the review then that.

BlueInkAlchemist:
The only reason to re-read a mystery story is if the detectives are enjoyable - Sherlock Holmes, Hercule Poirot, etc.

Very true, people watch movies over and over again even though they know the outcome will be the same EVERYTIME. At least with Heavy Rain the endings can be different.

I think the problem with changing who the murderer would have been would be for a few reasons:

one: what you do at point Y is not going to change what someone did at point X. It just might let you find out faster.

Two: i haven't played the game but it seems to me the clues would be set in such a way as to utterly prevent someone from being the culprit in one place, and make someone more likely in another. You would have to find a section where very little had already happened to branch off into different 'whos' for your 'who done it', which judging from this review is just the part where you are walking around the house shaking orange juice. Really, how is shaking orange juice left or right going to change the outcome? if you have some big arguement at a barbecue that leads to the murder, MAYBE.

Three: Does it really matter all that much? Most games end the same way every time anyway, heavy rain may have the same perpetrator but it has different endings.

Mr Thomsos:
So Yahtzee cries for his immersion in video games, then finds something else to cry about once he gets it?

*Snap*
Seriously though, it is a pretty fun game and Yahtzee is right, pretending the FBI agent is a time traveller is much more fun.

Fatal-X:
I bought Heavy Rain and after completing the game I say it's a revelation :).
The only flaw of the game are some little problems with the scenario, I mean some minor things just aren't explained. I hope that Quantic Dream will release a DLC that will fill inn the gaps.
To sum up, I give it 9/10.

Yahtzee, I thought that you will hate HR more because we know that you rather hate QTE which are core of the game ;). That just means what I say: Heavy Rain is great :D.

Looking forward for the God of War III review.

They have announce a DLC called "The Taxidermist" I think.

Aisha Bonner:
The whole consequense claim, is a line of cock and bull. I went through a number of scenes doing different thngs and the bottom line is often times you make different choices and the outcome is exacty the same. I was so dissappointed, they had a chance to do some thing truly unique and instead they mucked it up with bad voice acting, stiff moving animations, a plot with holes as large as the great state of Texas. Vision...10, Intent...10, Execution...0. Heavy Rain...EPIC FAIL.

I already argued this earlier in the thread but there is a big difference between plot holes and unanswered questions. This is why I think that the plot hole accusations that have been directed at the game have been largely misguided and overblown. Plot holes and unanswered questions are not the same thing, but evidently there are at least some people in the world who can't tell the difference.

Hopeless Bastard:

Not G. Ivingname:
However, if Heavy Rain flops, expect story to be left in some dumpster and every game to ever be made for the next decade to be only about space marines and things one would expect to see in a Michel Bay film.

This is a common sentiment. Too bad its utter crap. Heavy Rain is not the last hurrah of story. It might be the last hurrah of quantic dream, but story will always be a viable tool to set products apart from, well, halo.

Heavy Rain's problems are the same problems of indigo prophecy (other than the batshit insane second half), the illusion of interactivity is paper thin and it takes only one stray realization or repeated sequence to utterly shred it. Once gone, heavy rain / indigo prophecy becomes nothing but a really long movie on a malfunctioning DVD player with a weird remote.

Now, if bioshock had flopped, yea, story would've been done for.

I seriously doubt it's Quantic Dream's "last hurrah", considering that the game has been selling well so far. So no, the game is certainly no flop.

And Bioshock has certainly done quite well in terms of sales. But what's not so clear is if it's really because of it's story or because of the fact that it's still largely about shooting and blasting stuff in different ways.

Anthony Burch has some interesting stuff to say about Bioshock in his video right here:

http://www.destructoid.com/rev-rant-fun-isn-t-enough-142052.phtml

BloodSquirrel:

Brotherofwill:
Man I don't get Yatzhee sometimes. It's funny and he's a really great guy, but what's he exactly trying to get at?

He keeps on complaining about lazy sequels, cookie-cutter bland adventures and an overall lack of originality, but then he doesn't do anything about it. He keeps on reviewing shitty, mainstream titles instead of maybe branching out a bit to show us some better games. He said that 'noone likes it when I'm being nice', but that's just not true. His Psychonauts review owned, I bet thousands of people picked that up and tried it because of his recommendation. I did. He just doesn't do anything about it. He has a viewership of millions, he really could pitch some new concepts at us instead of whining and repeating the same tripe.

So the pacing is off? I strongly disagree. In order for these 'visceral' moments to work, the pacing has to be balanced with high to low moments. Like in great movies, starting slow is often extremely helpfull because it makes the more accelerated bits seem more extreme. It's supposed to be a murder mistery like 'Misery' or 'Don't Look Now', it's always good to set these up in the frameworks of common lifes to get the necessary shock value later on. U2 was great, but the shoot-bang-bang formula will only work so well, and no single moment is able to stand out. Excessive action is really a problem in modern entertainment.

I loved the beginning of this game. You really don't know what to expect. It starts incredibly slow. Ridiculously slow. I sure as hell made some jokes about it, while I was playing it (like shake contoller after the peeing animation), but it still worked because it was new and set the frame works. My mother was interested in the game from watching the first 10 minutes, that says it all (and she's very hard to get interested in games). The only thing she's been interested in in this medium is The Last Guardian, because it resembles the imaginative.

I don't mind that he doesn't like it. Hell there are loads of things that I didn't like about it. Voice acting was extremely unbalanced, it relied on a fair share of clichees and the timing that the game is on can be iritating at times. But it was a breath of fresh air in the current releases. Atleast he can highlight that it does some new things, instead of giving people the impression that this is a Sims game.

If you really thought he was going to like this game, you haven't really been paying attention.

For starters, Yahtzee's complaining and pretensions to some kind of greater standards have always been something of a joke. He's always contradicted himself on what he claims to want, and and he's always been more fanboyish about the few things he does like than than genuinely able to explain what they're great. Psychonauts is a perfect example- the game was fun, but it was hardly deserving of being placed above many of the games that he's reviewed. Or how about Painkiller, one of the dumbest, most simplistic shooters of the decade? It's fine if you like that sort of thing, but don't come to me afterward pretending that you're too good for Halo.

Until the day where Yahztee gives a good review to a game that it isn't cool to give a good review to, like, say, Halo, I'll never consider him a serious critic.

Second, Yahtzee has never liked games that put story over gameplay. He's complained about quick time events. He's never been patient with games. What, exactly, made you think he'd like Heavy Rain? Even if I did take him seriously, and even if I didn't personally find the idea behind Heavy Rain to be incredibly dull, I still wouldn't have expected him to like it.

I think you've made some decent points about Yahtzee. Yes, consistency generally doesn't seem to be his strong point. And yes, he's not a patient gamer and generally doesn't like QTEs.

But on the other hand he's also claimed that the best games have story and gameplay go hand in hand. And he's also mocked both developers and consumers alike for being too unwilling to take risks. And it's also probably important to note that he's said that nobody likes him when he's being nice to a game. So he generally goes out of his way to knock even the games that he likes (with of course the notable exception of Portal). So theoretically even if some developer goes out of it's way to throughly study all of Yahtzee's statements and opinions and create an entire game based on them he would probably knock that game anyway. This is why it should be very interesting to see Yahtzee address Heavy Rain seriously after dropping all of the jokes and sarcasm of his video reviews.

Hopefully he'll do just that with a subsequent Extra Punctuation article.

SL33TBL1ND:

They have announce a DLC called "The Taxidermist" I think.

Well yeah it's a DLC with Madison Page, the female hero, but I have already played it because I bought the special edition of Heavy Rain that included "The Taxidermist". Now it's gonna be available for others. When writing my previous post I was thinking forward for the next one's. I heard that there will be three more, each for a hero from the game.

Oh ggaaaaa..... for the past decade we've had a resurgence of cheap corridor shooters posing as AAA games and now we have gone full circle.....Heavy rian is the start of the return of FMV games......tho....if I get a sewer shark overkill game.....I'll be a happy camper >>

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