Zero Punctuation: Heavy Rain

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im rather amazed that yahtzee found this game good, as it reeeeaaally didnt seem like thye sort of game he would like, but hey, thats our man.

I won but I ended up with Ethan being shot at the last minute

Fatal-X:

SL33TBL1ND:

They have announce a DLC called "The Taxidermist" I think.

Well yeah it's a DLC with Madison Page, the female hero, but I have already played it because I bought the special edition of Heavy Rain that included "The Taxidermist". Now it's gonna be available for others. When writing my previous post I was thinking forward for the next one's. I heard that there will be three more, each for a hero from the game.

Oh ok, how is the Taxidermist by the way?

My own opinions of Heavy Rain aside, for the moment, I actually felt that the Trials in Heavy Rain were more adult than the ones in the Saw series. For starters, the Saw series is, rather childishly, obsessed with blood and gore. For second, the Saw series seemed more like Jigsaw punishing you physically for stuff he didn't like. To use an example from the first movie (before the series went COMPLETE insane) there was the guy who tried to kill himself and then Jigsaw flung him in the room with all the razor-wire. To me, it felt like a 13 year old yelling "THAT'LL TEACH YOU TO BE DEPRESSED!"
Finally, and this is the important part, there is the choice. In the Saw films, there is no choice, not really. There is "Put yourself through agony so Jigsaw can get it up" or "Die, probably agonizingly anyway." In Heavy Rain, you always have the option to chicken out, which, to me, makes it more adult. If it was just the father that was in danger, there wouldn't be any choice, but this becomes about what is he willing to do to save someone else. Feel free to disagree, but that's just how I felt.

Corohan:

BGH122:

I bought Heavy Rain at the full whack and it wasn't really worth it. I can see that it'd be great to play as a rental, but that's all. It takes about eight hours to complete it properly and it has zero replayability.

There's more than 22 different endings in the game and by that I don't mean those Fallout 3-type of endings. I've never played another game where your choices could have such a dramatic consequence on the game so it's not exactly fair to say that the game has zero replayability now is it?

Yes, it's entirely fair because the game isn't really a game at all, but rather an interactive movie and, as with real movies, it only works if you connect with the characters and, in crime dramas like this, still have mysteries left to solve. Unfortunately, after a single play through, during which the characters seemed very realistic and their storylines still held mysteries to solve, all of this is gone.

On the second play through the game is very obviously just a game, the characters no longer hold any form of emotional credibility and their storylines (and the effect one's actions will have upon said storylines) become completely transparent. It doesn't matter that there's lots of pretty arbitrarily different endings (the majority of differences are person x did or didn't make it ending up in one of two possible over-arching endings where the killer either does or does not get away, the endings aren't anywhere close to as unique as you claim) because it takes 8 very dull (on the second play through) hours to get to them.

So yes, it has no replayability.

Elesar:
My own opinions of Heavy Rain aside, for the moment, I actually felt that the Trials in Heavy Rain were more adult than the ones in the Saw series. For starters, the Saw series is, rather childishly, obsessed with blood and gore. For second, the Saw series seemed more like Jigsaw punishing you physically for stuff he didn't like. To use an example from the first movie (before the series went COMPLETE insane) there was the guy who tried to kill himself and then Jigsaw flung him in the room with all the razor-wire. To me, it felt like a 13 year old yelling "THAT'LL TEACH YOU TO BE DEPRESSED!"
Finally, and this is the important part, there is the choice. In the Saw films, there is no choice, not really. There is "Put yourself through agony so Jigsaw can get it up" or "Die, probably agonizingly anyway." In Heavy Rain, you always have the option to chicken out, which, to me, makes it more adult. If it was just the father that was in danger, there wouldn't be any choice, but this becomes about what is he willing to do to save someone else. Feel free to disagree, but that's just how I felt.

I agree with all your points. To me, Saw has always felt like a pathetic splatter flick posturing at intellectualism; its fans often give some wishy washy justification about how 'it's ironic' or 'it's examining the frailty of human life' because, after all, there's nothing more ironic or deep than watching two criminals attempting to pull each other towards a thresher, or watching people try to escape from a rib-flinging splaying machine, I'm sure Chomsky and Mackie were famed for examining human plight through the medium of splatter flicks. Sidetracking, but seriously, don't those who claim that they watch gore flicks (both real and cinematic) to 'get perspective about human frailty' just feel retarded? Isn't it just immediately obvious to everyone with working faculties that humans are frail?

Anyway, yes, the Origami Killer still had rather peculiar motives, but they were at least pseudopsychologically sound and more deep than 'me no likey certain human traits, grrr, Jigsaw smash!!!'. The trials also felt very intense on the first go around and the pressing urgency of the protagonist's 'quest' shaped his storyline nicely.

Admittedly I'm somewhat biased here, what with hating Saw with a passion, but I was definitely impressed by the way that Heavy Rain handled traps and made them seem like more than just a cheap thrill.

Yahtzee, you cracked me up as soon as you referred yourself as a Game Critic :D funny stuff indeed...

You know you're a entertainer, right?

So wish I could watch this.
Sadly, I haven't yet bought and played Heavy Rain, and I'm terrified of having things spoiled to me.

Oh well.

I thought it was a great Review, even if I don't agree with all points when it comes to to the Zero Punctuation reviews, I can understand your opinions and appreciate them for being your opinions. They always make me laugh regardless if I agree or don't. I think a lot of Nerd Rage occurs because people can't be bothered to separate that concept.. n00bs.

I think that you should review Deadly Premonition, just due to the differences of opinions that I've seen and I'd be interesting in seeing what. I've seen it compared to Heavy Rain, which is kind of interesting. The graphics are kind of screaming Silent Hill 2 on the PS2 to me, but I'm not all ZOMGZ not Next Gen Graphics, I can't play you. I'm contemplating playing it, to write it off my list of cheesy games, and sides at the end of the day it's 20 bucks. I can think of a couple of pop cap games which are currently going for 30 bucks, which is a raping of a wallet. I wish I could get the Gaming companies to realize that as a Fangirl of Survival Horrors I need a better fix on these games. Here's to crossing my fingers and getting my wishes.. hehe.

good story, terrible game mechanics.

Mertruve:
By the way:

There are consequences and punishments for fucking up in Heavy Rain ... but only some of the time. Many of the game's most thrilling QTE sequences are little more than illusions that you actually can't fail. Ethan's big, scary trials in the game? Try and fail them, see what happens. The game will arrogantly take over for you, because it's so cocksure and egotistical that it simply MUST make you see all the brilliance it has to offer. Having Ethan fail at something, then pass out and wake up with the whole scenario being cleared up for him is bullshit, and it completely ruins the excitement factor.

I purposely failed a lot of his challenges. The game did not do it for me, I just didnt do them. The above is a complete lie.

SL33TBL1ND:

Fatal-X:

SL33TBL1ND:

They have announce a DLC called "The Taxidermist" I think.

Well yeah it's a DLC with Madison Page, the female hero, but I have already played it because I bought the special edition of Heavy Rain that included "The Taxidermist". Now it's gonna be available for others. When writing my previous post I was thinking forward for the next one's. I heard that there will be three more, each for a hero from the game.

Oh ok, how is the Taxidermist by the way?

It isn't anything to spend money on really. There's a few different endings, but it probably isn't worth your time, unless you want something spoiler-free to show your friends and get them into the game.

I am in no doubt that you will review God of War III, but no matter how hard you may try to rip it apart, it is the most epic game I have ever played.

I really enjoyed the game, it HAS some downsides (plotholes, rather bland/limited gameplay mechanic), but the game lets you forget it with the way it is presented to you and there are so many ways how a scene can turn out. You have to take it for what it is, an interactive Drama, it's half game half movie. I agree with Yahtzee with his point about it not making sense to play it again, it takes away all the suspence and it's just for the achievment/trophy zombies (i will never get, why people love achievments so much, i guess it's a psychological matter)

When you said that you thought you could change the killer, I remember thinking that was a bad idea since it basically meant fate wasn't constant. The same applies to the bit with the religious nut blunder. But after buying and completing the game, I actually really wish there was a way to change who the killer was....

Never pointed out the plot holes (although enjoyable game it was, doing this... would be more fun with twilight or harry potter both of which have more holes than swiss cheese).

Game was good, it did lie to you at one bit (those of you who know who the killer is, knows exactly which bit the game cheated you. since you were there, you should have saw him do it)

It also cheats at another point, yes lauren can die.. but leave the controller and just go make a snack at the car sinking bit... yeah.. game cheats again (2nd play through before you ask). Played it 3 times, 4 different endings... some of which were truly amusing. My sisters bf got completely different endings than me too.

I got the limited edition, so the taxidermist was there (although HMV screwed up so i never did get my soundtrack, shame i quite liked the music).

Now the Taxidermist is what i expected the game to be, ALL THE WAY THROUGH. It was on most of the trailers and previews of the game. Why it ended up a DLC i'll never know....

And yes i also made the origami figure while the game installed... at least it tried to be different and i enjoyed the time i put into it. Far more than any of the games thats been reviewed in the past 2 months (bar Mass Effect 2).

It did differ from farenheit though, as Heavy Rain featured an almost romantic stressed out deranged sex scene... whereas farenheit made you bang your ex redheaded girlfriend and use the right thumbstick as an orgasm maker. (funny as hell scene)

I lit up when I saw that Yahtzee had reviewed this game, because -I- had just recently watched a friend play the last half or third of it. Which of course means that I missed the slow beginning and jumped in at about the point that poor lost father was wondering whether he was slowly killing his own son and had to run through a crowded subway with an insomniac girl away from the police.

He's right about the biggest disappointment - that you can't dramatically alter the plotline, no matter what you do, only make a few little differences. For instance, the first thing Corey, my buddy, decided to do after beating it was return to the underwater car scene and rescue the girlfriend of the fat cop to see how it changed the next scene if he managed to save her - It didn't, really - absolutely nothing changed except perhaps some skipped revenge dialogue.

And then he tried going back and trying -not- to manage to get out of the car in time, since he'd been told there were some plot points where your major characters could die. And it turned out that you could still be sitting tied up when the water rushed in - you'd magically get out alive. With the girl, even! Failing completely got you the preferable ending!

Admittedly, the atmosphere of the game, at least the last part, and the suspense of its first play-though, is truly awesome. The decisions you have to make seem to carry a lot of weight - at least until you find out they change jack squat important. And the way you got to select thoughts and reactions, as little keywords floating nervously around your head, was a clever and evocative way of suggesting the feeling of thoughts spinning in your mind - and made the process of -thinking- at least more interactive than in many games wherein characters endlessly repeat whatever opinions or plot points they think you should know as you're running through the map.

I agree, it is bad at the start

I really liked this review. There was a lot of funny moments in it. Think I'll watch it again haha. Then you stab your kids with a knife! xD

I thought he would find the start really boring so did i. I leaped at the first opportunity to kill them off. second part was really good though.

I agree with most of his comments, but I think it's best that the killer is always the same person. A murder mystery's story can't be very strong if it's that flexible!

Dapz:
I agree with most of his comments, but I think it's best that the killer is always the same person. A murder mystery's story can't be very strong if it's that flexible!

..they could have just not declared who the killer was, and allowed it to be up to the viewer to decide who it really was.

But yeah, I agree the objection to the way they did this in Heavy Rain seems to be some sort of "academic" point about interactive gaming. Because in Heavy Rain they really have both. They had a very compelling narrative about deciding who the killer is first - then a detective part where you continue trying to figure it out. And they have a separate scene where the killer is revealed. And it seems pretty ridiculous to demand a more flexible scene like that, if they had to trade the "revelation" for it. After all, from the beginning we know that Ethan can't have actually been the origami killer in the papers. But he can be a copy-cat murderer. So QD really did the best possible with that story.

And any objection to that way of making the story would have to come along with a suggestion to restructure the story to be much less linear, with huge amounts of content that never would have been shown. And I'm not sure that's a very good suggestion, when the design in Heavy Rain was to have choice within particular context - and then reasonably limited story-paths and event triggers between those scenarios.

Instead, I guess you could mention that QD was pretty skilful in hiding where those branches happen. Because there are several events that are picked up and cause actual changes - most of them are never mentioned by one reviewer alone.

In the same way, the choices within the contexts are pretty intelligent - they make you choose for yourself what sort of motivation you have in the situation, rather than try to figure out what the main character's motivation is. Or, said in a different way, you are giving your character motivations in a situation - and the game then acts those out for you.

And that's.. pretty good, and novel, and new, and stuff like that.. on it's own. So that bears to be mentioned, before the "not enough choices" things - specially when combining those two ways of telling an interactive story really isn't possible.

Obsidian had a similar discussion going on when it came to choice in Alpha Protocol. Bioware has mentioned the same when comparing Mass Effect and Dragon Age. That you have two different approaches to the choices you insert in the story. So it's not as if you have nothing whatsoever to rest on here either..

I honestly thought that the game was one of the best games I've played in the realm of video games I've played in my 20 years of existence, but I agree that the game is a little bit slow at the beginning. However, being a literary/cinematic type of guy, I imagined that playing Heavy Rain was like a movie that the viewer was involved with.

Oh and I had to laugh at Yahtzee's talk about the hacking of extremity part.

"Just hack off an extremity where I can see you, Bitch! Anyways, the whole sequence gripped me by the BELL END!"

Managed to get my hands on the game- not bad, pretty good story with a lot of padding, and I'll admit I was starting to nod off right around interrogating the hooker (meaning I ended up missing about half the QTE's in the immediate fight scene afterwards), but Yahtzee is right- it does get better later.

But as some people have said before, the plot holes just drove me up the wall. Hello?! What about Ethan's blackouts? What about Madison's insomnia? Where the hell was the ex-wife for all of this?

On second thought, screw the ex-wife. She was kind of a bitch.

Very funny review but heavy rain is still the best game ever!

Mr.Tea:
What's sad is that whether or not it's worth experiencing is irrelevant since it's a PS3 exclusive. The question is then not "Is it worth 50-60$ +tax?" but instead "Is it worth 350-360$ +tax?" the answer to which is sadly "Of fucking course not."

Oh well...

That was a terrible analogy.

EAS_Suit:
I agree, it is bad at the start

But good at the finish

geldonyetich:

A1:

geldonyetich:

ForgottenPr0digy:
I'm surprised Yathzee actually like the game

Interesting interpretation of, "as a game, it's a stack of poo poo pancakes."

That's pretty much what I derived from researching it, really. It's not so much a game as it is a cinematic experience. Then, it's not so much a cinematic experience as it is a movie with some elements of interactions being rendered on PS3 hardware.

On the other hard, it did make Yahtzee highly uncomfortable, so it served as an excellent game for a Zero Punctuation review.

He also says the game gets getter better later. This is not a negative review. It's a mixed and somewhat ambiguous one. Hopefully he'll clarify himself with his next extra punctuation article.

That wasn't ambiguous to me. It gets better and better as something other than a game. It's as much a stack of poo poo pancakes at the beginning of the review as it is at the end of the review, as long as you're looking at it from the perspective of gameplay as opposed to cinematic experience. This is backed up with everything Yahtzee said from the beginning to the end of the review, from the poor pacing, to how the movement was handled, to how the ending was so linear.

He notes "it really does get better later"
Because THE STORY and EMOTIONS it forces you to feel (that's why the pacing was aweful at the beggining, so you can care what happens to these characters)
Stop being dependant on what Ben says.

See, what i don't like about this review is that everything is part of the plot, he claims that the dream sequence isn't important, but its character development, this is why I hate yathzee sometimes. He goes to the hot tub next to the pool and claims that there is no pool.
Its just a fuckin time waster to say things are bad when you just not paying a(FUCKING)ttention

Guyton77:
Very funny review but heavy rain is still the best game ever!

Where do you live? I'd like to shake you hand and say "thank you for not being a idiot"

See, I liked that the Killer doesn't change. For me, it always breaks the immersion, and I feel taken out of the experience when the killer changes. I mean, it wouldn't make sense, how would your actions change what person is killing these people?

I DONT GIVE A F*** WHAT ANY1 SAYS, HEAVY RAIN AND INDIGO PROPHECY ARE THE BEST GAMES EVER! I was emersed into the games at the beginning. I dont care if i sound like im overreacting, David Cage is the only guy that can bring a good simple yet compelling videogame. Not like Hideo Kojima who tries to make the plot so brain-rapingly confusing and detailed like hes trying to make americans feel like retarded republicans... I mean republicans. These games are the only good thing that came from the french... except maybe french maid outfits.

Kekon3:

Guyton77:
Very funny review but heavy rain is still the best game ever!

Where do you live? I'd like to shake you hand and say "thank you for not being a idiot"

I feel the exact same way man

nipsen:

Dapz:
I agree with most of his comments, but I think it's best that the killer is always the same person. A murder mystery's story can't be very strong if it's that flexible!

..they could have just not declared who the killer was, and allowed it to be up to the viewer to decide who it really was.

But yeah, I agree the objection to the way they did this in Heavy Rain seems to be some sort of "academic" point about interactive gaming. Because in Heavy Rain they really have both. They had a very compelling narrative about deciding who the killer is first - then a detective part where you continue trying to figure it out. And they have a separate scene where the killer is revealed. And it seems pretty ridiculous to demand a more flexible scene like that, if they had to trade the "revelation" for it. After all, from the beginning we know that Ethan can't have actually been the origami killer in the papers. But he can be a copy-cat murderer. So QD really did the best possible with that story.

And any objection to that way of making the story would have to come along with a suggestion to restructure the story to be much less linear, with huge amounts of content that never would have been shown. And I'm not sure that's a very good suggestion, when the design in Heavy Rain was to have choice within particular context - and then reasonably limited story-paths and event triggers between those scenarios.

Instead, I guess you could mention that QD was pretty skilful in hiding where those branches happen. Because there are several events that are picked up and cause actual changes - most of them are never mentioned by one reviewer alone.

In the same way, the choices within the contexts are pretty intelligent - they make you choose for yourself what sort of motivation you have in the situation, rather than try to figure out what the main character's motivation is. Or, said in a different way, you are giving your character motivations in a situation - and the game then acts those out for you.

And that's.. pretty good, and novel, and new, and stuff like that.. on it's own. So that bears to be mentioned, before the "not enough choices" things - specially when combining those two ways of telling an interactive story really isn't possible.

Obsidian had a similar discussion going on when it came to choice in Alpha Protocol. Bioware has mentioned the same when comparing Mass Effect and Dragon Age. That you have two different approaches to the choices you insert in the story. So it's not as if you have nothing whatsoever to rest on here either..

My main point is that the reason we usually observe murder mystery stories is for the shocking (if done well) revelation at the end about who the murderer is. However, if you find out who the murderer is but know that it's just one possible outcome out of many then the effect is somewhat marred. For a strong murder mystery story, you need to have a definitive murderer.

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