On the Ball: Like God of War, But

 Pages 1 2 NEXT
 

On the Ball: Like God of War, But ...

How does one game become the poster child for an entire genre?

Read Full Article

Jordan Deam:
God of War's solution is deceptively complex. First, it took control of the camera away from the player. This is something of an "all or nothing" gamble: If players ever want to move the camera to allow them to look in a certain direction but find themselves unable to, the game is effectively broken. But God of War's level design avoided this scenario by perfectly laying out each room in such a way that players rarely even realize there is a camera. It's an incredibly intuitive and, dare I say, cinematic approach to level design, and it even frees up a second analog stick for dodge maneuvers as a bonus.

I wonder why so few developers consider this approach. I wouldn't call it intuitive like you did, because it's such an old concept.

I think ever since the early Mario 64 games people have been noticing that 3D camera work is a tricky and often annoying component. A fixed camera won't work in every game, especially one with large open environments, but for linear brawlers like GoW it is perfect. I think it's good if that control is taken out of the player's hands within limits and only if it's done well. When Blizzard announced that Diablo 3 would stick to an isometric view I almost cried tears of joy...only to realise they dropped manual stat progression, goddammit.

I would totally play Gears of War meets Railroad Tycoon.

As to the topic at hand, however, I think it really depends on perspective. God Of War may be the posterchild for 3rd person action/combat games but I personally find the Team Ninja Ninja Gaiden games to be so much better. It may be commonplace for others to call, say, Dante's Inferno a God Of War Clone/Ripoff/Etc. but when I'm describing God Of War I tend to say that it's like Ninja Gaiden just with easier less technical combat and the greek gods added in.

... like Devil May Cry but...

There isn't a single mechanic in God of War that Hideki Kamiya didn't come up with for Devil May Cry. Give credit where it's due. God of War got its "gold standard" award because it wasn't Japanese thus the asthetics are more palatable, though all the design elements gameplay-wise are definitely Japanese.

Would the entire game-review industry please stop sucking Yahtzee's... err... hat. Seriously.

Well, second place isn't so bad, right? I mean, especially when the thing you're being compared to hasn't had an iteration in a few years, right? Oh, what's that? You decided to try and put your second place winner on the market a month before the Titanic Super Giant comes out with the new, third part? Oh, wow, don't you feel insignificant. Not only does your product get measured up to the first two amazing, mindblowing, breathtaking installments, but now it's got to measure up to something that's received nothing short of a wall of "perfect" scores that has been in development for years?

Wow. That's harsh. Not even the coldest day in the locker room is that disappointing.

On the bright side, it does mean that that titanic super giant has rightfully earned their place. Whats sad is that other high-ranked titles can't claim the same, because they were in fact beaten out by not only the current titanic masterpiece of not only their own genre, but of other media. Think about Uncharted, where not only was it beaten out in the shooter and puzzler categories, but by the movies for National Treasure and Indiana Jones. Certainly, its a stellar example of gameplay, graphics, nosepicking, etc., but in describing it, we resort to calling it one of the things it uses for its idea, which is to say exploring ancient doo-dads, surviving chase scenes and bad guys, and becoming slightly more wealthy and renowned by the end of the movie game than you would have been otherwise. God of War...is. It's not like anything else, it is. It knows exactly what it is, and it made itself the biggest and baddest and meanest head-ripping-offist, neck-impalingist, eye-ripping-outist game around. And for that, we Love it.

SavingPrincess:
... like Devil May Cry but...

There isn't a single mechanic in God of War that Hideki Kamiya didn't come up with for Devil May Cry. Give credit where it's due. God of War got its "gold standard" award because it wasn't Japanese, though all the design elements are.

Would the entire game-review industry please stop sucking Yahtzee's... err... hat. Seriously.

DMC is more about frantic rushing and speed, maintaining its frenetic nature, whereas God of War is more about sweeping, fluid-yet-not-impossible motions, smoothly gliding from one movement to the next, while DMC manage to make it seem jumpy. Were the ideas taken from Kamiya's work? There were probably some designs brought about from his games, but Sony just took them and made them a bit better. It's not the innovation that we love, it's the combination.

It's really awhole other animal from Ninj Gaiden and DMC, guys.
OT: part of GoW's charm is that it is a very angry game, and this really gets you excited to fight. All the enemies are evil and our hero isn't much better, so Kratos' singulairty in purpose is really what players pick up onan and what other games emulate. It wouldn't set the standard if it had crappy, melodramatic love scenes. The whole thing is one big Metal video. Jordan, you may be one of my favorite writers on the escapist.

SavingPrincess:

There isn't a single mechanic in God of War that Hideki Kamiya didn't come up with for Devil May Cry.

The get souls from enemies as experience thing first came up in Onimusha not Devil May Cry.

Wow why are so many people boning over GoW recently >.<
I'm not arguing whether it's a bad game but I'm just seeing journalists and fanboys give reason after reason to hail it as some divine creation that descended from the heavens.

Ironically, God Of War has yet to interest me enough to invest in a single installment, even used. I've been playing Brawlers since their inception, and really don't think it's all that special overall.

Just an opinion mind you, nothing definitive.

The fact that it has so many rabid fans alone makes it something special, however I do not think that it will be that difficult to overcome in the long run if someone really puts their mind to it. The thing is that more people today are interested in retreading "Safe paths" and emulating what is working on other products, than really trying to improve anything signifigantly.

That said while I doubt the devs care, they're going to have to do a bit better to get my money. I *DID* buy Dante's Inferno because for whatever reason, despite liking greek mythology, that premise just seemed interesting to me on a level that God Of War never was.

Remind me of Yahtzee and his little Foray with this mentioning...

It seems that one game does something well, and then anything else that comeso ut like it is compaired to it.

Its a little annoying at times, and, I think gets peoples expectations up sometimes (or does, depending how you look at it). Tis a shame really

Eric the Orange:

SavingPrincess:

There isn't a single mechanic in God of War that Hideki Kamiya didn't come up with for Devil May Cry.

The get souls from enemies as experience thing first came up in Onimusha not Devil May Cry.

In which Hideki Kamiya was also involved in, yay CAPCOM. I should have said "Kamiya didn't come up with... period."

Jaredin:
Remind me of Yahtzee and his little Foray with this mentioning...

It seems that one game does something well, and then anything else that comeso ut like it is compaired to it.

Its a little annoying at times, and, I think gets peoples expectations up sometimes (or does, depending how you look at it). Tis a shame really

Makes me wonder if Jordan is being meta by using the phrase to make his argument seem:

... like Yahtzee but...

After all, we've watched developers create new iterations of pretty much the same first-person shooter for the last 15 years, but no single title or series has risen up to claim the title of "FPS Archetype."

Just to nitpick... but after doom came out for several years all FPS games were deemed "Doom Clones"

Apart from that excellent article :D

"God of War meets 14th-century Italian literature"

But Dante's Inferno wasn't this.

It was a clone of God Of War, so close in fact that some gamers were wondering if Sony could sue EA over it.

In my review I talk about how it seems like the developers only understood the poem at a very basic level.

They completely missed the Contrapasso aspect of the poem that could have been so easily worked into the game, making something interesting and new for gamers to experience.

Instead, they just went all "violence and sex is mature" and ruined a good idea.

There's too many flavors in the brawler genre that God of War can really be said to "define" the genre. Awesome games though.

Kind of a shame no one remembers that Dynasty Warriors did almost everything Onimusha, DMC etc do, before they did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y2XcPAM6cM&feature=related

God of War is mainly ab example of everything coming together to strengthen the whole product in the end.

I still don't see how God of War is the standard. I always figured everyone agreed DMC was the standard. Why is God of War the standard? Do we have a committee to decide these things? DMC had locked cameras, and IMO it's combat is superior to God of War's in every single way.

Why would I have what, in my eyes is an inferior game as the standard which to set everything?

Also, let's be fair. God of War is VERY similar to Rygar. What's that? You haven't played it? How about you let these two chaps put it in perspective for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJY548vbzlk

God of War did NOTHING original.
NOTHING.

Yet it's constantly hailed as amazing and every game that's LIKE God of War is ostracized because of it's similarities. Why, then, does God of War get off scot fucking free?

I just literally cannot believe people simply IGNORE things like this. Not even just casual players. Members of the press should KNOW these things, they should have played these games. I can't possibly be the only person whose recognized the similarities of God of War and Rygar and it just blows my mind that people whose job it is day in and day out to write about video games just don't KNOW about these games. You should! Even if you haven't played them, you should know they exist. They aren't hiding, they aren't unknown.

How do these things happen? I'm really losing my faith in gamers of all walks of life.

It's true. Honest, the first impression I got when playing GOW for the first time was "Cool this feels like DMC".

Simple, if you have played God of War you know it did pretty much everything right. The prize doesn't go to first place in this kind of thing, it goes to the people who do it best. I can't think of any game with the same components as God of War let alone any game I loved as much.

Combat visceral, characters don't fuck about, hero is pure motherfucker to the core and you still can't help but love him, every last quick time event was beautiful and exhilirating.

Name a game that beats God of War on the same terms.

I always preferred DMC in the end. Combat felt tighter, looked more ssstylish. Never really loved either Dante or Kratos (both bearing gratingly flat personalities but also campy charm)

AC10:
I still don't see how God of War is the standard. I always figured everyone agreed DMC was the standard. Why is God of War the standard? Do we have a committee to decide these things? DMC had locked cameras, and IMO it's combat is superior to God of War's in every single way.

Why would I have what, in my eyes is an inferior game as the standard which to set everything?

Also, let's be fair. God of War is VERY similar to Rygar. What's that? You haven't played it? How about you let these two chaps put it in perspective for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJY548vbzlk

God of War did NOTHING original.
NOTHING.

Yet it's constantly hailed as amazing and every game that's LIKE God of War is ostracized because of it's similarities. Why, then, does God of War get off scot fucking free?

I just literally cannot believe people simply IGNORE things like this. Not even just casual players. Members of the press should KNOW these things, they should have played these games. I can't possibly be the only person whose recognized the similarities of God of War and Rygar and it just blows my mind that people whose job it is day in and day out to write about video games just don't KNOW about these games. You should! Even if you haven't played them, you should know they exist. They aren't hiding, they aren't unknown.

How do these things happen? I'm really losing my faith in gamers of all walks of life.

Frame of reference, it is a fact of human life. God of War like DMC and NG is a superior game which means within the genre it sits at the top, even though other top level games do certain things better than God of War. As for God of War setting a new standard for Brawlers I would have to disagree since most of the top level games play so differently from each other.

shadow skill:

AC10:
I still don't see how God of War is the standard. I always figured everyone agreed DMC was the standard. Why is God of War the standard? Do we have a committee to decide these things? DMC had locked cameras, and IMO it's combat is superior to God of War's in every single way.

Why would I have what, in my eyes is an inferior game as the standard which to set everything?

Also, let's be fair. God of War is VERY similar to Rygar. What's that? You haven't played it? How about you let these two chaps put it in perspective for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJY548vbzlk

God of War did NOTHING original.
NOTHING.

Yet it's constantly hailed as amazing and every game that's LIKE God of War is ostracized because of it's similarities. Why, then, does God of War get off scot fucking free?

I just literally cannot believe people simply IGNORE things like this. Not even just casual players. Members of the press should KNOW these things, they should have played these games. I can't possibly be the only person whose recognized the similarities of God of War and Rygar and it just blows my mind that people whose job it is day in and day out to write about video games just don't KNOW about these games. You should! Even if you haven't played them, you should know they exist. They aren't hiding, they aren't unknown.

How do these things happen? I'm really losing my faith in gamers of all walks of life.

Frame of reference, it is a fact of human life. God of War like DMC and NG is a superior game which means within the genre it sits at the top, even though other top level games do certain things better than God of War. As for God of War setting a new standard for Brawlers I would have to disagree since most of the top level games play so differently from each other.

Edit: NM after reading your post again I see what you mean :D

Well for one thing the story is better (Kamiya cannot write a scenario for his life.) as it makes more sense overall, the level design is better (This is part of the reason that the camera works as well as it does.), it doesn't have as much of the annoying problem of screwing up your motions because the camera view changed as in most iterations of DMC. NG is even less intelligible story wise than DMC although the camera and combat engine is better than well every other top tier game in the genre out right now. God of War seems to get how to put in puzzles at the right time to avoid being overly annoying.

Edit: No worries.

I want to play "Gears of War meets Railroad Tycoon". Want want want. I can already imagine it.

In the dark and distant future, there's one and only one measure to dominate the field of battle: trains. Build your own rail network, fill your trainyards with mighty battle engines, protect junctions and shipments, take enemy strongholds. Manage the economics of your company, then jump right in the intense cover-to-cover firefights. Use machine gun, chainsaw, and railbuilder - to protect what's yours and take over what isn't.

Rails of War. Coming to your PCs July 2015.

AC10:
I still don't see how God of War is the standard. I always figured everyone agreed DMC was the standard. Why is God of War the standard? Do we have a committee to decide these things? DMC had locked cameras, and IMO it's combat is superior to God of War's in every single way.

Why would I have what, in my eyes is an inferior game as the standard which to set everything?

Also, let's be fair. God of War is VERY similar to Rygar. What's that? You haven't played it? How about you let these two chaps put it in perspective for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJY548vbzlk

God of War did NOTHING original.
NOTHING.

Yet it's constantly hailed as amazing and every game that's LIKE God of War is ostracized because of it's similarities. Why, then, does God of War get off scot fucking free?

I just literally cannot believe people simply IGNORE things like this. Not even just casual players. Members of the press should KNOW these things, they should have played these games. I can't possibly be the only person whose recognized the similarities of God of War and Rygar and it just blows my mind that people whose job it is day in and day out to write about video games just don't KNOW about these games. You should! Even if you haven't played them, you should know they exist. They aren't hiding, they aren't unknown.

How do these things happen? I'm really losing my faith in gamers of all walks of life.

Because God of War took it and made it good?

Something that wasn't really mentioned was just the sheer power trip GoW has. Like hurling yourself across a chasm and plowing through a stone pillar with your shoulder half way across and combat rolling to your feet on the other side just has a certain epic feel to it, though I hate using the word epic. GoW just has a crazy pro feel to it.

Kollega:
I want to play "Gears of War meets Railroad Tycoon". Want want want. I can already imagine it.

In the dark and distant future, there's one and only one measure to dominate the field of battle: trains. Build your own rail network, fill your trainyards with mighty battle engines, protect junctions and shipments, take enemy strongholds. Manage the economics of your company, then jump right in the intense cover-to-cover firefights. Use machine gun, chainsaw, and railbuilder - to protect what's yours and take over what isn't.

Rails of War. Coming to your PCs July 2015.

Yes! You have my pre-order. I can already see the cut scenes with our grim, stalwart hero, "I will get these 30 cars of un-dyed textiles from Atlanta to Philly before the dividend is due or die trying!"

But with GoW, part of it is you have an all-around good game that is very well marketed to the demographic you're writing your reviews for. So writers feel confident using the analogy with little explanation. Same with GTA or COD, it's well known enough that you don't have to have ever played to have an idea of what the game is like.

Hm. I can see what you're getting at, but this article felt a little like a gush for GoW. A hack-and-slash/brawler which was also good was Spartan: Total Warrior. So damn underrated. That game was awesome.

Kollega:
I want to play "Gears of War meets Railroad Tycoon". Want want want. I can already imagine it.

In the dark and distant future, there's one and only one measure to dominate the field of battle: trains. Build your own rail network, fill your trainyards with mighty battle engines, protect junctions and shipments, take enemy strongholds. Manage the economics of your company, then jump right in the intense cover-to-cover firefights. Use machine gun, chainsaw, and railbuilder - to protect what's yours and take over what isn't.

Rails of War. Coming to your PCs July 2015.

Holy shit, that's the best idea of all time! Maybe not the economics, and give it a story akin to Metro 2033... maybe. Or do both. WAGH SO AWESOME

It's a little ironic reading all of "GOW IS SO GREAT" news after the praise heaped on Bayonetta's stylish, smooth, and powerful-feeling combat, but I've never really been jazzed about the whole action brawler genre either. Still, this article seems to have forgotten that other genres have had their "Like _______ but" too. Every FPS wanted to be Doom, every platformer wanted to be Mario, every RPG wanted to be Dragon Quest/Final Fantasy, and now that the brawler genre is growing, everyone wants to emulate the most successful entry in that catagory. And like other games have shown us, when you try and emulate the "best" you're always going to fall short unless your game can bring something special, new, and FUN to the table. It's going to take a long time before any game overtakes GoW3 in that respects as the series has always nailed the "fun" aspect with reckless who-cares-we're-killing-stuff combat.

You stole Mr. Xhaaaws LGoWb stamp, outrageous.
Interestin' read tho

SavingPrincess:
... like Devil May Cry but...

There isn't a single mechanic in God of War that Hideki Kamiya didn't come up with for Devil May Cry. Give credit where it's due. God of War got its "gold standard" award because it wasn't Japanese thus the asthetics are more palatable, though all the design elements gameplay-wise are definitely Japanese.

Would the entire game-review industry please stop sucking Yahtzee's... err... hat. Seriously.

Maybe the world is sucking Yahtzee's hat in this because he's sort of right?

DMC and GoW are different. You make it look like GoW is a DMC clone. Sure, they both are(to use Yahtzee's term, but it's true) spectacle fighters. In both games you kill oponents in the most gruesome/exp. efficient way.

Why people give GoW praise is because of it's realism. This sounds odd, but hear me out.

In DMC, you're Dante, who has a brother, Virgil, and a mortal enemy, they fight, they make up, kill the mortal enemy, find out the mortal enemy has a more evil boss, go kill him, then you're another guy, Nero, who apparently has a beef with Dante, they fight, he gets kidnapped, then there's ANOTHER evil demon/god/thingy who has to die, then the three stooges Dante, Virgil and Chick go on another adventure to kill a businessman(?) who is evil,...

WAARGH, who the hell still gets this?

In GoW you're Kratos, and Kratos alone, the whole series long. He has one (okay, group of) enemy: the gods. Well, maybe 2 enemies, the gods and himself.

In the game you find that you were used. You use other people to get to your goals, namely some friendly gods. There are Titans, who want the same as you, kill some gods, there are gods who want you and the titans dead. You have a troubled past about a murdered family, you want revenge. Your enemies are: Ares (whom you've been out to kill before the game), Zeus (The leader of your main group of enemies) and in GoW 3, probably a succesor to that(a Titan or a God, probably whichever betrays you worst. The other will be a level boss).

In short, you're human. A very strong god-ish human, but you're a human with real troubles.

I'm not saying this story isn't confusing. Off course I cut down both stories, killing all nuance and bluntly destroying all storytelling, but I don't need that for this point:

GoW is coherent. It's a series of events with people who recur and keep on helping you and messing with you, then help you, only for you to discover they had their own interest in you.

DMC are a bunch of stories tied together with a (rather confusing IMHO) timeline of games. People come people go, some stay for a long time, but there is no 1 single bad guy. You are always the bad ass motha in control.

Sure, that's Asian storytelling, but for the other 3/4 of people on this globe it's very confusing.

GoW is more American/European in story: take something people know, and let's make it different. And that works. Kratos has no annoying sidekick/loveinterest, no (playable) family and has been tugged all over the map to be used by people over and over again.

Because of that single difference, the story, GoW is more of a staple than DMC.

Which is not to say DMC is bad, not a staple or to step on anyones toes. I just mean to say that accessibility is just as important as gameplay to create a posterchild.

As for this post:

AC10:
I still don't see how God of War is the standard. I always figured everyone agreed DMC was the standard. Why is God of War the standard? Do we have a committee to decide these things? DMC had locked cameras, and IMO it's combat is superior to God of War's in every single way.

Why would I have what, in my eyes is an inferior game as the standard which to set everything?

Also, let's be fair. God of War is VERY similar to Rygar. What's that? You haven't played it? How about you let these two chaps put it in perspective for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJY548vbzlk

God of War did NOTHING original.
NOTHING.

Yet it's constantly hailed as amazing and every game that's LIKE God of War is ostracized because of it's similarities. Why, then, does God of War get off scot fucking free?

I just literally cannot believe people simply IGNORE things like this. Not even just casual players. Members of the press should KNOW these things, they should have played these games. I can't possibly be the only person whose recognized the similarities of God of War and Rygar and it just blows my mind that people whose job it is day in and day out to write about video games just don't KNOW about these games. You should! Even if you haven't played them, you should know they exist. They aren't hiding, they aren't unknown.

How do these things happen? I'm really losing my faith in gamers of all walks of life.

As Funk put it: GoW did it better.

About not being the first to do something: pretty much everything has been done. If you take something you liked and do your own thing with it, it's not bad.
Similarities are not evil. When similarities become annoying, the stamp gets pulled out.

For instance: Darksiders. The second the Voidwalker was introduced, I hated the game. There's the hommage, but there's also copying.

As for GoW v. Rygar and the whole "Nobody played Rygar boohoo" thingy, I played Rygar, and I liked it, it was all right. I played "The legendary Adventure" for PS2(the one you're pointing to, since the arcade isn't anything "Like GoW, but"), and I liked it. The camera just didn't help when dealing with large amounts of enemies. The whole weapon-on-a-chain made the monster killing a lot of fun, since you could hold some distance and still do good damage.

The story was kind of stupid. When Rygar is about to be executed, Titans show up. Titans mess stuff up, you end up saving the people who sentenced you to death. I see a plothole.

Another thing they have in common is Mythology based characters. I'm not even going to start here. Rygar wasn't the first either.

Imagine, a world where wrongs can be made right: Rybar with good camera and better story: it'dd GoW.

Dexiro:
Wow why are so many people boning over GoW recently >.<

Um... because the latest GoW game JUST came out a week ago maybe?

Eric the Orange:

SavingPrincess:

There isn't a single mechanic in God of War that Hideki Kamiya didn't come up with for Devil May Cry.

The get souls from enemies as experience thing first came up in Onimusha not Devil May Cry.

Onimusha, DMC, the important thing is that it wasn't GoW that did it first.

That said, I loved 1 and 2, but GoW3 isn't selling me on a PS3. Same shit, just prettier. Holy fuck...its been...DEAR GOD. GoW1 is old as hell!

eh, I'm reminded of a strip in ctrl-alt-del where Dante (from the viewpoint in the Dante's Inferno game) visits the 4th circle of Hell - Greed. And there he meets a gluttonous monster called EA, eating "Divine Comedy" .. can anyone help me with a link please? =P

That's my opinion on Dante's inferno, at least based on what I've heard about it from anywhere on the web.

AC10:
I still don't see how God of War is the standard.

*snip*

How do these things happen? I'm really losing my faith in gamers of all walks of life.

Eh, I'm not a fan of the brawler genre, and I've heard of GoW, but I haven't heard of Rygar. I had to wiki it and even then I'm not sure I found the right link.. I suppose it can be a matter of advertising?

It was the first polished entry in the genre, Doom wasn't the first FPS either but it got the tag. I don't even know if the tag is really that sticky I always say "Like DMC but" even after I've tagged Bayonetta as "Like DMC but much better"

 Pages 1 2 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Registered for a free account here