It's Time To Forgive George Lucas

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Whilst I think he has become a god awful director now (curse you for Indy 4!) I never actually took out my 'Lucas hate' beyond the odd bitching about him on forums.

I just wish he was the director he used to be, and LucasArts wasn't the pile of urine it has become.

Personally I've liked all the Star Wars films I've seen. The original trilogy and the prequels. But even if you don't like them there's nothing to "forgive" you just didn't like the fucking movie. If it means so much to you I suggest therapy or a noose because your life must be pretty shitty.

Xocrates:

Mad Stalin:
Dont have a problem with the Star Wars prequels, but Indiana Jones IV... Way to rape a franchise mr. Lucas... Aliens? really?

To be fair, this reaction is very typical because most people missed the fact that Crystal Skull is supposed to be based on the 50's sci fi B movies, in the same way that the originals were based on 30's adventure movies. Quite frankly I thought this change was the most interesting thing about the movie.

That said, I won't be claiming it to be a good movie. But I will note that, nostalgia goggles aside, it wasn't worse (or at least significantly so) than Temple of Doom.

Well, to be honest, Indy 4 wasn't as bad as I feared - it certainly had some of the Indy feel to it and all, but I really felt it was a bad movie, and the aliens only made it worse.

Also, I dunno why everyone hated the Temple of Doom - I thought it was alright myself.

Well I'm not one of the first "Star Wars" generation but I can't see myself forgiving in the sense that I wrote him off as a half-talent who got lucky and super hyped. Prepare yourselves;

THE FIRST TRILOGY WAS OK, BUT NOT AWESOME!

Seriously, I've watched them at several points in my life and I can't watch them anymore. They make me cringe. They aren't horrible but they aren't A gold plated Messiah of your choice either. The second trilogy just kind of proved that it was the audience that made Star Wars a success not the originator. I have just put him in the same place as Spielberg and Coppolla, Too rich and successful for people to work up some courage and say "No George/Steven/Francis, That's a shit idea! And here's why..." So many movies could've been saved with those words.

Scde2:

Sovvolf:

Scde2:

I hate him because of the Star Wars Holiday Special.

He had no direct involvement in Star Wars Holiday Special an he him self as declared it none canon and want's to wipe it off of the face of the earth.

He helped write the story, it still exist today (youtube) and declaring it noncanon doesn't erase the bad dreams from watching it.

He had very little to do with the writing of the story (to the point that he wasn't even credited). The story was written by 5 other guys (one of which helped right scary movie 3 and 4). The only thing George can be blamed for is letting it happen in the first place. However, he declared it none cannon, had never officially been released and as never aired again, so he's attempted to rid the world of it. However the internet (Being the powerful tool that it is) as rendered that impossible.

Here's a quote from George found on wikipedia regarding it "The special from 1978 really didn't have much to do with us, you know. I can't remember what network it was on, but it was a thing that they did. We kind of let them do it. It was done by... I can't even remember who the group was, but they were variety TV guys. We let them use the characters and stuff and that probably wasn't the smartest thing to do, but you learn from those experiences.".

seidlet:

carnkhan4:
Why are midichlorians always picked on as a bad thing? I never got that.

I liked them, it was a bit like mitochondrial DNA in concept...

I always dug that too. Less magic, more 'science'. Awesome.

Ouch, this hurts to read for me .... The entire concept of intelligent microscopic organisms is just ridiculous. There's a reason we are of a certain size in relation to the interacting parts of our cognitive systems (loosely our nervous system). It is difficult to imagine a very small organism being capable of managing information entropy (which means managing energy) in a sufficiently complex way to allow higher-order abstractions and thus intelligence. The alternative is that they work together as a collective to be intelligent, but that is really what ordinary cells do. If they would display this emergent behaviour, midichlorians themselves would just be ordinary cells so that's not what is implied.

Science aside, what does it mean anyway? Everybody is a nation consisting of on the order of trillions to quadrillions (Anakin has over 20,000 per cell) of intelligent beings. What? What does that have to do with anything Star Wars? Sure, the idea might work for something like the Reapers of Mass Effect, but really ....

If they were like mitochondria, I'd have no problem with 'em. It's this "intelligent" crap that's the problem.

Sovvolf:

Scde2:

Sovvolf:

Scde2:

I hate him because of the Star Wars Holiday Special.

He had no direct involvement in Star Wars Holiday Special an he him self as declared it none canon and want's to wipe it off of the face of the earth.

He helped write the story, it still exist today (youtube) and declaring it noncanon doesn't erase the bad dreams from watching it.

He had very little to do with the writing of the story (to the point that he wasn't even credited). The story was written by 5 other guys (one of which helped right scary movie 3 and 4). The only thing George can be blamed for is letting it happen in the first place. However, he declared it none cannon, had never officially been released and as never aired again, so he's attempted to rid the world of it. However the internet (Being the powerful tool that it is) as rendered that impossible.

I'll say it again. It's still on Youtube and declaring it noncanon doesn't rid the bad taste of processed crap from your mouth. And it shows how much he'll do to make money. Like sellout one of the best movies ever. I cant watch the original trilogy without thinking of it.

I'd have to say I think the first three Star Wars are pretty rubbish too.
- Let the self-righteous flaming commence.

Doug:

Xocrates:

Mad Stalin:
Dont have a problem with the Star Wars prequels, but Indiana Jones IV... Way to rape a franchise mr. Lucas... Aliens? really?

To be fair, this reaction is very typical because most people missed the fact that Crystal Skull is supposed to be based on the 50's sci fi B movies, in the same way that the originals were based on 30's adventure movies. Quite frankly I thought this change was the most interesting thing about the movie.

That said, I won't be claiming it to be a good movie. But I will note that, nostalgia goggles aside, it wasn't worse (or at least significantly so) than Temple of Doom.

Well, to be honest, Indy 4 wasn't as bad as I feared - it certainly had some of the Indy feel to it and all, but I really felt it was a bad movie, and the aliens only made it worse.

Also, I dunno why everyone hated the Temple of Doom - I thought it was alright myself.

That was kind of my point. I wasn't saying Temple of Doom was bad (although it's the worst of the original trilogy), I was saying Crystal Skull isn't horrible and that most of the hate towards it is not so much related to quality but due to a very significant (but not unjustified) shift in tone.

LiquidGrape:
I'd have to say I think the first three Star Wars are pretty rubbish too.
- Let the self-righteous flaming commence.

So much arrogance :|

Scde2:

I'll say it again. It's still on Youtube and declaring it noncanon doesn't rid the bad taste of processed crap from your mouth.

Ripping out your eye balls and setting them a-light wont rid you of the image of that trash. However declaring it none-canon means that it has nothing to do with any thing in that universe, you could happily go about learning every thing about the EU and never really have to watch that God awful piece of shit. The only reason people watch it these's days is because of how notoriously bad it is (so bad it's horrible but I can't possibly explain in words how horrible it is).

Scde2:

And it shows how much he'll do to make money. Like sellout one of the best movies ever. I cant watch the original trilogy without thinking of it.

This was back when the movie wasn't a classic and Lucas was still a very young director. The money which came from that would have contributed to creating The Empire Strikes Back. I mean if you watch the documentary of that film you'll realise that he was in and out of financial hell for the most of the time.

Greedo shoots first.
Midichlorians.
Jar-Jar Binks.

This man does not deserve my forgiveness.

I liked all of the Star Wars and Indiana Jones movies. I don't see what the big deal is. And regardless of which Star Wars trilogy is better, they both suck in comparison to pretty much all of the expanded universe fiction, especially KOTOR and Zahn's Heir to the Empire trilogy.

I think its more like its time to stop expecting George Lucas to impress us like he used to.

He's made some of the best movies I've ever seen- but I think he's trying to do too much on his own. I was never personally offended by him or his newest movies, they were just a disappointment. I get the feeling the guy doesn't have many people criticizing him like he used to, because "he's George Lucas" and that's a shame.

I have faith that someone can do well on his properties, but its not gonna be solo Lucas. At least not if he's given free reign in everything. I mean, look at Empire Strikes Back for example, different director, lots of other people working and checking against each other

I never hated him since I never cared about what he did that much.

Of course, virtually ALL of the hate can be summed up with one word: Expectations.

It was close to two decades in between the two trilogies, and the original's popularity skyrocketed it to near-deification by the masses. Of course nothing is going to be better or even as good if you partake in such intense fandom.

True, many here dislike the prequels because they had noticeably weaker acting, writing, and characters. But take another look back at the originals. Can you really call the dialog and acting between Han and Leia in Empire so much better?(I facepalm every time I hear "nerf herder") Can you really call Boba Fett so badass when he was dumb enough to jump right in front of Luke when he had his saber out then get knocked into the Sarlaac pit by a blind man? Can you really call the Ewoks less irksome than the Gungans? I suppose its a trade-off there, you exchange plausible military weapons with the ability to speak human language(but in a very silly way).

Regarding Indiana Jones and nuked fridge/aliens, I'd like to say its no less feasible than having ghosts come out of an ancient religious object, turn to demons and melt people's faces off, nor a man chanting some words and sucking a complete heart out through a solid ribcage, nor a knight waiting, what, 800 years in the same room for someone to find him?

I enjoy all of the Star Wars and Indiana Jones movies, but if those same old movies were first released today, I'm sure there would be plenty of people saying that Star Wars jumped the shark after Luke fell so far down after getting his hand cut off and a solid metal tube softly broke his fall. Or how about when Indy, Short Round, and the dumb bimbo from Temple survived TWO free falls on an inflatable raft? Just enjoy the movies for what you can. If you can't enjoy it, fine, but I hope you remember that its JUST A MOVIE.

If I may quote James Rolfe, the Angry Video Game Nerd, at the end of his "10 Dumbest Indiana Jones Moments" video:

"Today, audiences are far more critical, have less imagination, and aren't as willing to suspend their disbelief. And THAT is the death of cinema."

I refuse to forgive him for what he did....i can't sleep at night....i see images of it in my head.

Sovvolf:

Scde2:

I'll say it again. It's still on Youtube and declaring it noncanon doesn't rid the bad taste of processed crap from your mouth.

Ripping out your eye balls and setting them a-light wont rid you of the image of that trash. However declaring it none-canon means that it has nothing to do with any thing in that universe, you could happily go about learning every thing about the EU and never really have to watch that God awful piece of shit. The only reason people watch it these's days is because of how notoriously bad it is (so bad it's horrible but I can't possibly explain in words how horrible it is).

Scde2:

And it shows how much he'll do to make money. Like sellout one of the best movies ever. I cant watch the original trilogy without thinking of it.

This was back when the movie wasn't a classic and Lucas was still a very young director. The money which came from that would have contributed to creating The Empire Strikes Back. I mean if you watch the documentary of that film you'll realise that he was in and out of financial hell for the most of the time.

Ok, we can agree how bad it was. He was in financial trouble (Splinter of the Minds Eye was written to be a possible sequel). But he DID NOT need the money from the special. A New Hope is one of the highest grossing movies of all time. The Holiday Special came out a year and a half later, when A New Hope had already made hundreds of millions of dollars.

I've never hated George Lucas. Although I haven't been really pleased with him since LucasArts axed the creativity department and started churning out only Star Wars gruel.

Distorted Stu:
I always blamed the advancement in technolgy for the flunk of the newest Star Wars films.

this AND combine it with the fact that lucas has a fetishistic devotion to that technology over everything else.

and no i will not forget or forgive - the prequels were a tragedy. the man took a big dump on my childhood with those "movies". they started out bad -- the scrolling text in the first prequel had to do with taxes and shipping lanes (i guess adult diapers was already taken).

and after that, it just got worse.

lucas WAS a visionary in 1977. he set that all aside when he thought that computer rendered images could replace any depth of character, story or motivation.

I was never upset with him. I enjoyed all the Star Wars movies. The Phantom Menace much more enjoyable material than people give it credit (the underwater scenes, Darth freaking Maul, and I loved the podrace).

I've already forgiven George Lucas a long time ago. Yes, the orginal trilogy was far better than the prequel trilogy, but in my opinion it wasn't that bad, and neither were the special editions of the orginal trilogy. I hated Jar Jar Binks and thought Hayden Christensen's overacting was terrible as much as the other guy, but the prequel had plenty of great stuff in it. As for midi-chrlorians, they were to act as a kind of medium between force sensitives and the Force itself. Sort of like in the orginal Fullmetal Alchemist anime, when in the final episodes Edward is told by his father the deaths of those who died in our Earth act as the medium to be used as energy whenever someone uses alchemy in Edward's world. Midi-chrlorians act as that medium, while the Force itself is seperate and supernatural from midi-chrlorians and force sensitives. As for Greedo shot first, I could care less about that as it didn't ruin it for me with the orginal movies. Yes, it was stupid, but it doesn't take away the majority of awesomeness in the orginal trilogy. A lot of people simply just don't understand a lot about the Star Wars mythos because the majority of them had only watched the movies. The majority of them had never played the video games, read the novels, or read the comics. There's a difference between being a fan of the Star Wars films, and being a fan of the Star Wars universe itself. The prequel trilogy without a doubt was more geared towards fans of the Star Wars universe, therefore fans of the orginal trilogy felt betrayed with stuff they didn't understand. MovieBob, you also make a good point of all that Lucas has contributed outside the film industry, and that was also great and needed to be said. That, and I think the Star Wars cartoons on Cartoon Network are good.

Scde2:

Ok, we can agree how bad it was. He was in financial trouble (Splinter of the Minds Eye was written to be a possible sequel). But he DID NOT need the money from the special. A New Hope is one of the highest grossing movies of all time. The Holiday Special came out a year and a half later, when A New Hope had already made hundreds of millions of dollars.

Yes but George at this point was more focused on making a trilogy. Sure George could have just kept the money and lived a comfortable life, however we would not have TESB or ROTJ as a result. TESB was actually paid for out of Georges own pocket, the money from the first movie also went into creating Skywalker ranch for the Special effects and filming (and thus PIXAR was born as a result of this). George needed all the money he could get to finish TESB.

The saddest part is the that lots of these guys really have nothing outside of ranting and meticulous worship of things like Star Wars. Geek culture sucks in the fact that everyone thinks they own something because they watched or read it and now even the director and owners are not allowed to touch it.

Macgyvercas:
Why do I have to forgive him? There's nothing to forgive. I actually liked the Star Wars Prequels and Indian Jones IV. *runs away before the flaming starts*

A lot of people might disagree, but Indiana Jones IV was IMO a far far FAR better movie than Temple of Doom.

Re-watch Temple of Doom, then watch Crystal Skull immediately afterwards before posting your disagreement :p

Good article, but I don't get it. This might be because I didn't really care for Star Wars in the first place. Back to the Future is maybe my equivalent, and why I be seeing Hot Tub Time Machine for its nod to it.

Its a movie(any Star Wars), sure it good when it comes to quality, but it isn't much more then that. People make good movies, people make bad movies. Just how it goes, no matter what you do good in you're bound to make mistakes. Some see the prequels as bad, some see it as good. Hell when the third one came out I was able to keep up in conversations about seeing it without seeing it was how predictable they were.

Brutal Legend for any faults in it, it still one of the best games ever in my book. On paper that doesn't make much sense, but that is because of the fact it gives me everything I like in a game. Anything that is bad in the Star Wars series is that to someone else.

This article was ruined by Jar Jar's ugly mug jumping out at my unprepared ass on page 2. Well, okay, not ruined but I didn't enjoy it as much as I would have without it. Goddamnit I hate Jar Jar...

Scde2:
Hasn't anyone even seen the Star Wars Holiday Special?

I haven't yet but now that I found it online (with original commercials) I will soon...

Episode 2 was horrible. But Episode 1 and 3 were fairly good. I am young enough to say Episode 1 was one of the movies I saw in my childhood, I even think it was the first scifi movie I ever saw, so I will always treasure it, just like older Star Wars fans treasure the original films. Also, and I just know God will kill a kitten for me saying this, but...

in fairness to Lucas, while i love the original trilogy of Star Wars, i have to admit to myself that they were kinda naff. i mean, they're a hugely important cultural statement, etc etc. Having watched them as a very young age, the love is still, and shall always bethere, but its kinda like The Rocketeer: saw when i was a kid, loved it, bought it on dvd a year ago (im 22 now) and i had to cringe just a little bit. but i wont turn my back on it.

I also thought Phantom Menace was pretty good. JarJar Binks is not Lucas's greatest 'sin'(see the epilogue ending of Revenge of the Sith. Darth Vader was not ruined for me, he was merely shat upon) he's easily ignored in a movie that has the key ingredient for its franchise: a kick-ass climactic light-saber duel with epic music. And this leads me on to how i feel about George Lucas.

As MovieBob says, Lucas has done many great thing, Indiana Jones being top of my list (Raiders and Crusade only though). What annoys the hell of of me is that, for Indian Jones at least, he forgot the magic formula: Nazis and Biblical relics. While people might yell at me for being pro-formulaic, with everyone's favourite archaeologist, its necessary. Temple of Doom gets forgiven for being muck because its the middle child of a trilogy, and they are often really really not good. (Empire strikes back being an interesting exception to said trend). But to my mind it failed because it lacked Nazis and Biblical relics.

The big problem i had with Crystal Skull, apart from it being muck, having aliens and Shia leBouef, was disappointment. I was so sure Lucas would say to himself 'Right an Indiana Jones movie, break out the Nazi uniforms and someone get me a bible.' I even went so far as to dare to hope that he might have just read Robert Ludlum's the Holcroft Covenant and decided to rip of the whole Sonnenkinder bit (which i would have been totally ok with, provided he did it right.) I thought maybe after the backlash towards the Star Wars prequel he'd make a movie for the fans, not the fanboys (i cite yoda's lightsader duel in Clones as the worst example of fanboy pandering i have ever seen.) Alas that i was wrong. (Aliens?!?! Why, George, why?)

So, in conclusion, i wouldnt go so far as to say George Lucas raped my childhood. he just forgot all my birthdays after i hit puberty and never got me what i really wanted for christmas (Indy vs. Nazi's one last time.)

dekkarax:
To be honest, I never really had this problem, by the time I was old enough to appreciate the Star Wars films the prequels were just rolling out, so I don't really mind them, since I wasn't nostalgic about the original trilogy, same about Indiana Jones too.

Hell, I never watched all of Return of the Jedi until after the first prequel, I was poor so we only bought VHS tapes occasionally.

I feel the same way, I just watched the first trilogy as just a movie, sure it was awesome but I didn't follow the story like other people and follow it like a religion, so I kind of liked the prequels

raankh:

seidlet:

carnkhan4:
Why are midichlorians always picked on as a bad thing? I never got that.

I liked them, it was a bit like mitochondrial DNA in concept...

I always dug that too. Less magic, more 'science'. Awesome.

Ouch, this hurts to read for me .... The entire concept of intelligent microscopic organisms is just ridiculous. There's a reason we are of a certain size in relation to the interacting parts of our cognitive systems (loosely our nervous system). It is difficult to imagine a very small organism being capable of managing information entropy (which means managing energy) in a sufficiently complex way to allow higher-order abstractions and thus intelligence. The alternative is that they work together as a collective to be intelligent, but that is really what ordinary cells do. If they would display this emergent behaviour, midichlorians themselves would just be ordinary cells so that's not what is implied.

Science aside, what does it mean anyway? Everybody is a nation consisting of on the order of trillions to quadrillions (Anakin has over 20,000 per cell) of intelligent beings. What? What does that have to do with anything Star Wars? Sure, the idea might work for something like the Reapers of Mass Effect, but really ....

If they were like mitochondria, I'd have no problem with 'em. It's this "intelligent" crap that's the problem.

When are they ever described as intelligent. Qui-Gon just calls them microscopic. And there's enough bullshit in his sentence to bury the concept even without being intelligent.
They're living organisms inside cells, without them life would not exist. Presumably he means life OTHER than them, but it's still a horrible phrased statement.

The big problem is that they destroy all the magic of The Force and replace it with a crappy pseudo-scientific explanation. It just screams of the fact that Lucas apparently forgot what made the original trilogy so good.

AvsJoe:
This article was ruined by Jar Jar's ugly mug jumping out at my unprepared ass on page 2. Well, okay, not ruined but I didn't enjoy it as much as I would have without it. Goddamnit I hate Jar Jar...

Scde2:
Hasn't anyone even seen the Star Wars Holiday Special?

I haven't yet but now that I found it online (with original commercials) I will soon...

I strongly urge you to not to. But if you like eye and ear rape, go ahead.

duchaked:
I don't think the prequels were bad, just different. Me? I love the Clone Wars era.

Same here, sure jar jar was slightly annoying but he was still funny to listen to. My only problem was episode 2, the romance between padime and skywalker seemed a bit too corny and it interrupted the action. Episode 1 was fun to watch, 2 was OK, 3 was all kinds of epic.
I do think that the original trilogy is still miles ahead of 1,2, and 3 in terms of story and characterization though.

my theory that all old guys(yes all, not some or most) are retarded and nothing can help them just got confirmed. jar-jar was the funny character and that's his purpose, you can't think movie is wrong just because it's not completely obsessed with the borders of it's own genre. TBH I don't need any genres, best movie of all time would have everything and everything on the master level. same goes for games and pretty much any form of art(if art still exists).

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