It's Time To Forgive George Lucas

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qbanknight:
time to get over it dorks, film evolves. there were plenty of gems back then and the star wars franchise was a legendary piece of filmmaking. but there have been so many, many GREAT films: Lord of the Rings, The Dark Knight, District 9, The Hangover, Toy Story, Spider-man, X-Men, Kick-Ass. All are making an impact on film history without Lucas, film has evolved without him.

Without him? hardly. His influence has made many of those films possible. While they are probably much better without his direct involvement. Its impossible to disregard the influence the Star Wars movies had on future projects. I also know that Lucas and Pixar are connected, but not how off the top of my head.

OT: Its about 50/50 for me. I appreciate the prequels because I love Ewan McGregor and the prequels were the first (but by no where near best) time I noticed him.

On the other hand, I despise Hayden Christianson and the kid who played Annikin in the first was also pathetic. The retconns were annoying and well, Jar Jar Binks... There were some unintentionally funny moments though. Right before the last fight in Revenge of the Sith Annikin says that "your either with me, or against me" and Obi Wan responds with "only Sith deal in absolutes" which is itself an absolute. I got a chuckle in the theater over it at least.

For the record, it also annoys me that Christianson appears in Return of the Jedi now. But I still don't hate Lucas, I kind of pity him. It would suck to have to try and top yourself with success so young in life.

Donnyp:
I refuse to forgive him for what he did....i can't sleep at night....i see images of it in my head.

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Okay then. I'm not sure that the films deserve this much fanatism (if that's a word; i think it is). At this point they're pretty mediocre, original triology included. The original triology may have been ahead of it's time or something, but they weren't all that great.
Something that deserves more praise is 2001: A space oddessey. If I watched that movie without seeing the orange plastic furniture, I'd think it relatively modern. It's all around better scifi.

Eremiel:

Macgyvercas:
Why do I have to forgive him? There's nothing to forgive. I actually liked the Star Wars Prequels and Indian Jones IV. *runs away before the flaming starts*

A lot of people might disagree, but Indiana Jones IV was IMO a far far FAR better movie than Temple of Doom.
Re-watch Temple of Doom, then watch Crystal Skull immediately afterwards before posting your disagreement :p

I disagree. For their times, Temple of Doom was MUCH better than Crystal Skull. Especially plotwise. Interdimentional beings? Common
I will admit the prequels were fine, up to 3. Sure there's some stuff that people dislike, but when I watched it first I was the target audience, so I liked it. The acting was good, the action was good (specially in 1, okay in 2, not enough major battles in 3.

LOLZ RANT.
In closing, if anybody gets this far, George Lucas is gonna pump sumthin else out that sucks and ruins a series.

The only thing I can't stand are people who claim that the prequels weren't a disaster.

I never hated Lucas. He wasn't a bad guy.

But he just does things that irk me. Like the Clone War series.

He basically made a version of Star Wars with even more terrible CG graphics and a Hilary Duff ripoff (Asoka whoever) to boot.

I just don't know what to think anymore.

Here's something to think about:

The suckage in the prequel trilogy was due to inability of the people around Lucas to say "George, that's a stupid idea."

Think about it for a minute. If more people would have said no his boner writing (ie; Jar-Jar, Kid Anakin, and the dialogue during ep.3's lightsaber battle, Anakin's dumbass motivations, etc, etc) , then the prequels wouldn't have sucked. Likewise, they shouldn't have let him direct, because it was obvious he was nowhere near as good as Lawrence Kasdan or Richard Marquand.

In short, his entourage allowing him to suck by being failures as people.

We wanted George to be good and make good things. He didn't, because, like everyone else, he needs people to say "No, that's iditotic". His stuff needs polish to shine. That's why it's a team effort.

As for Indy 4, it failed for me when Shia Lebouf stepped on screen with his big, wet eyes and wimp-ass attitude. But again: bad writing, stupid ideas. I would've had Indy's son be from, say, some formerly hot 50-ish Brit actress, and be played by Jude Law, who would then proceed to be a badass like his old man....

Sovvolf:

Scde2:

Ok, we can agree how bad it was. He was in financial trouble (Splinter of the Minds Eye was written to be a possible sequel). But he DID NOT need the money from the special. A New Hope is one of the highest grossing movies of all time. The Holiday Special came out a year and a half later, when A New Hope had already made hundreds of millions of dollars.

Yes but George at this point was more focused on making a trilogy. Sure George could have just kept the money and lived a comfortable life, however we would not have TESB or ROTJ as a result. TESB was actually paid for out of Georges own pocket, the money from the first movie also went into creating Skywalker ranch for the Special effects and filming (and thus PIXAR was born as a result of this). George needed all the money he could get to finish TESB.

I realize he almost ran out of money for TESB, but the Holiday Special didn't make him any money. It was broadcasted only once, viewers stopped watching by the thousands, and it was never released later on video. If anything it might have had a minor impact on the TESB box office. And for being noncanon, Lucas sure didn't mind taking stuff out of it. Like the wookie homeworld (Kashyykk?) and Boba Fett, both appearing for the first time (A good thing from a nightmare).

Scde2:

Sovvolf:

Scde2:

Ok, we can agree how bad it was. He was in financial trouble (Splinter of the Minds Eye was written to be a possible sequel). But he DID NOT need the money from the special. A New Hope is one of the highest grossing movies of all time. The Holiday Special came out a year and a half later, when A New Hope had already made hundreds of millions of dollars.

Yes but George at this point was more focused on making a trilogy. Sure George could have just kept the money and lived a comfortable life, however we would not have TESB or ROTJ as a result. TESB was actually paid for out of Georges own pocket, the money from the first movie also went into creating Skywalker ranch for the Special effects and filming (and thus PIXAR was born as a result of this). George needed all the money he could get to finish TESB.

I realize he almost ran out of money for TESB, but the Holiday Special didn't make him any money. It was broadcasted only once, viewers stopped watching by the thousands, and it was never released later on video. If anything it might have had a minor impact on the TESB box office. And for being noncanon, Lucas sure didn't mind taking stuff out of it. Like the wookie homeworld (Kashyykk?) and Boba Fett, both appearing for the first time (A good thing from a nightmare).

He didn't have any way of knowing it would have bombed, he just accepted the money from a T.V show company, let them use the characters and that was that. Boba Fett and Kashyykk were already thought up of before the T.V show, I think Boba was going to be in the original star wars film too.

I like Star Wars, a lot. Although I really dislike the prequels, I've never seen my childhood as raped by George Lucas. Some people really need to move on. I've never met the guy and I probably never will. By all accounts it just sounds like the story of a guy who had huge success and failed to meet the standards he set the second time. That has happened to me (albeit on a smaller scale) and probably to you too. I forgive George Lucas for not being a robot who can replicate the same quality of work all the time.

StevieWonderMk2:

raankh:

seidlet:

carnkhan4:
Why are midichlorians always picked on as a bad thing? I never got that.

I liked them, it was a bit like mitochondrial DNA in concept...

I always dug that too. Less magic, more 'science'. Awesome.

Ouch, this hurts to read for me .... The entire concept of intelligent microscopic organisms is just ridiculous. There's a reason we are of a certain size in relation to the interacting parts of our cognitive systems (loosely our nervous system). It is difficult to imagine a very small organism being capable of managing information entropy (which means managing energy) in a sufficiently complex way to allow higher-order abstractions and thus intelligence. The alternative is that they work together as a collective to be intelligent, but that is really what ordinary cells do. If they would display this emergent behaviour, midichlorians themselves would just be ordinary cells so that's not what is implied.

Science aside, what does it mean anyway? Everybody is a nation consisting of on the order of trillions to quadrillions (Anakin has over 20,000 per cell) of intelligent beings. What? What does that have to do with anything Star Wars? Sure, the idea might work for something like the Reapers of Mass Effect, but really ....

If they were like mitochondria, I'd have no problem with 'em. It's this "intelligent" crap that's the problem.

When are they ever described as intelligent. Qui-Gon just calls them microscopic. And there's enough bullshit in his sentence to bury the concept even without being intelligent.
They're living organisms inside cells, without them life would not exist. Presumably he means life OTHER than them, but it's still a horrible phrased statement.

The big problem is that they destroy all the magic of The Force and replace it with a crappy pseudo-scientific explanation. It just screams of the fact that Lucas apparently forgot what made the original trilogy so good.

I don't really mind it personally, as it does explain why some are force-sensitive while others are not, and especially explains why force-sensitivity can be passed genetically.
Clearly it's an unholy combination of mitochondria and chloroplasts, those oh-so-useful little organelles that make the whole world go. But it's the word that's annoying to me, not the concept (not unlike unobtainium).

The Force is nearly everywhere, but not everybody can control it. Why is this?
Options available are:
a. Anybody can be a Jedi, you just need to have the proper training
b. Not just anyone can be a Jedi, you need to have innate mental talent for it
c. Not just anyone can be a Jedi, you need to have a biological predisposition for it

And honestly, I'm fine with any of them, even the last one.

Science fiction loves to have pseudo-scientific explanations for things. Its best not to overthink them or you'll realize it doesn't make sense. Because of the "fiction" part.

Here's the thing: Star Wars is bigger than Lucas.

I think a lot of the enduring popularity of Star Wars was in the setting. Having snappy lines in the first three movies helps. The prequels had some gems, but they were fewer and far between.

Anyways my point is it's entirely possible to see the entire Star Wars Galaxy and not have it be about the characters that show up in the movies.

This is why I prefer the KoTOR era (even though I originally hated the Dark Horse comics it was based on) it allows people to play in the universe without having to worry about the main movies.

Besides I reserve all my nerd rage for Michael Bay. Watch Transformers 2 and then watch Phantom Menace. TF2 will make TPM look highbrow.

Why does everyone hate the prequels so much?

I kinda liked them. I'm not going to go out on a limb and say they are brilliant movies, but it was a bunch of guys in bath robes swinging around swords made of pure energy at hilariously inept robots; it can't be that bad!

Why, why do people hate Jar Jar? Its JAR JAR! I'd do him! YOU HEARD ME!

slowpoke999:

KillerMidget:

slowpoke999:

C.S. Lewis, in describing his gradual personal transition from staunch atheist to Christian philosopher (and author of the Narnia books) described his period of unbelief as a state of being "angry with God for not existing."

Ow Ow Ow, I don't know who that guy is but that comment made my brain owie, I'll have to read Page 2 some other time

I think the theory there is that you can't be angry with God and not believe in Him at the same time. Or is it just the strangeness of the sentence that vortexed your brain?

OT: Sure I'll forgive the little scamp! But only if I get to tug on his magic beard for luck.

The amount of stupidity from his comment hurt my brain, if he was angry with God, he failed at being an Athiest

Not to say the man couldn't or didn't say dumb things, C.S. Lewis was probably one of the most intelligent and learned men of his era... Just throwing that out there.

Interestingly enough the author of the Divine Comedy had the same problem. He wanted to believe but looked at the world and couldn't, and hated god or the idea of god for that.

OT, I was in the FUCK YOU LUCAS bandwagon for a while but yeah he's not a bad guy. What I don't like is his insistance on marketing only to children when there's obviously a hoarde of nerds with money to blow who want to see a more adult side of the Star Wars brand.

well.. episode 1 was bad... Episode 2 was alright..

I really enjoyed Revenge of the Sith though, what's wrong with it? It wasn't an epic tale or anything, but it was a solid film with one of the most awesome light saber duels ever.

The original trilogy is overrated, tbh. By today's standards it's just an average movie (not speaking effects wise), it was revolutionary back then but that's the only reason people hold it in such high regard today. I guess we, as part of the younger generation, can't appreciate it as well as the others who grew up on it do.

Bout time someone said this. I think the hatred of George was kinda just a fad everyone jumped onto, because looking down these comments, a lot of people really liked the prequel trilogy, myself included.

I mean they had shitty moments, like Anakin's whining in Attack of the Clones and every single scene Jake Loyd was in on episode 1, but overall they were very enjoyable. And Revenge of the Sith was just awesome

I like Jar Jar Binks. His silliness amuses me.

I already forgave him when his world was used to make KotOR, and have passed off any foolishness since, as that game was great, and now that meterial is being used to make a MMO that hopefully won't completely suck, especially considering it's being made by the same people who gave life to the KotOR series (which was too short, I still wanna see KotOR 3).

*clapclap* Right again, Bob! Yeah, he made three mediocre movies (I say three because I liked Indiana Jones 4) but is that really enough reason to blame the guy for everything wrong in existense? He seems like a really good guy, and he has done so much good. Can we move on now?

Distorted Stu:
I always blamed the advancement in technolgy for the flunk of the newest Star Wars films.

wasn't the old lightsaber so much cooler? it all looked otherworldy, and paintings for backgrounds? that was spectacular. Anyway, Lucas is just milking the franchise like he is Jones, I'm definately not pating to watch anymore so I don't really care.

Aditional: wasn't Maul cool, maybe they were aiming at a good Fett character who barely spoke but it worked, and Qui Gon (however the hell you spell it) was a propper Jedi... both good characters, both killed in the first one. we should have just stopped watching then.

Sovvolf:

Scde2:

I realize he almost ran out of money for TESB, but the Holiday Special didn't make him any money. It was broadcasted only once, viewers stopped watching by the thousands, and it was never released later on video. If anything it might have had a minor impact on the TESB box office. And for being noncanon, Lucas sure didn't mind taking stuff out of it. Like the wookie homeworld (Kashyykk?) and Boba Fett, both appearing for the first time (A good thing from a nightmare).

He didn't have any way of knowing it would have bombed, he just accepted the money from a T.V show company, let them use the characters and that was that. Boba Fett and Kashyykk were already thought up of before the T.V show, I think Boba was going to be in the original star wars film too.

If he owned the rights why would he let (CBS?) mutilate his creation, after all, he did write for the show. I am probably sure that he knew that it sucked before it was regurgitated before the public. And sadly Lucas has a obsession with star wars and animation that did not end with the holiday special, ever hear about the TV series Droids and Ewoks?

slowpoke999:

KillerMidget:

slowpoke999:

C.S. Lewis, in describing his gradual personal transition from staunch atheist to Christian philosopher (and author of the Narnia books) described his period of unbelief as a state of being "angry with God for not existing."

Ow Ow Ow, I don't know who that guy is but that comment made my brain owie, I'll have to read Page 2 some other time

I think the theory there is that you can't be angry with God and not believe in Him at the same time. Or is it just the strangeness of the sentence that vortexed your brain?

OT: Sure I'll forgive the little scamp! But only if I get to tug on his magic beard for luck.

The amount of stupidity from his comment hurt my brain, if he was angry with God, he failed at being an Athiest

That's kinda the point. Also you really need to broaden your horizons if you don't know who C.S Lewis is. Him and tolkein we're pretty big deals in the literary world.

Nice work on mentioning redletter medias brilliant review of phantom menace.For any of you who loved it,then he also recently released an avatar review (Which was also excellent) and is currently doing a clone wars review.

CanadianElite:

Donnyp:
I refuse to forgive him for what he did....i can't sleep at night....i see images of it in my head.

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Okay then. I'm not sure that the films deserve this much fanatism (if that's a word; i think it is). At this point they're pretty mediocre, original triology included. The original triology may have been ahead of it's time or something, but they weren't all that great.
Something that deserves more praise is 2001: A space oddessey. If I watched that movie without seeing the orange plastic furniture, I'd think it relatively modern. It's all around better scifi.

I STILL haven't seen it lol. I actually like his movies. They are not the best but provide me with enjoyment. I was gonna do a quote or line from South Park about them finding George and Spielberg Raping Indy deliverance style lol.

I've never hated George Lucas. Yes, I despise his concept of a movie never being finished; it tempts one to keep polishing and polishing until the sheen's worn off. I didn't care for the Prequels, either, especially the first one. So I pretty much just walked away from the franchise, I don't feel the need to stick to something I don't like and rage endlessly about it. It's just seems so excessive to spend this kind of emotional energy on a movie series.

George Lucas's biggest mistake with his newer trilogy and movies was his inability to surround himself with people who questioned and challenged his stupid ideas. This is very obvious in behind the scenes footage where Lucas would propose an idea which his employees visibly were concerned and yet made no objection.

Secondly altering classics and creating crappy sequels is going to upset fans and leave Lucas wide open for criticism.

Moviebob I agreed with you on some parts, but to tell us Lucas owes his fans nothing is dead wrong. His fans are why Star Wars still exists today. Buying his merchandise loyally through out the decades is what funded his projects. They have a right to expect a well created Trilogy when they're the ones who helped made it possible. We need his work, he needs our support.

Scde2:

Sovvolf:

Scde2:

I realize he almost ran out of money for TESB, but the Holiday Special didn't make him any money. It was broadcasted only once, viewers stopped watching by the thousands, and it was never released later on video. If anything it might have had a minor impact on the TESB box office. And for being noncanon, Lucas sure didn't mind taking stuff out of it. Like the wookie homeworld (Kashyykk?) and Boba Fett, both appearing for the first time (A good thing from a nightmare).

He didn't have any way of knowing it would have bombed, he just accepted the money from a T.V show company, let them use the characters and that was that. Boba Fett and Kashyykk were already thought up of before the T.V show, I think Boba was going to be in the original star wars film too.

If he owned the rights why would he let (CBS?) mutilate his creation, after all, he did write for the show. I am probably sure that he knew that it sucked before it was regurgitated before the public. And sadly Lucas has a obsession with star wars and animation that did not end with the holiday special, ever hear about the TV series Droids and Ewoks?

Because they paid for the rights to use his characters and world in that show. Most likely through a contractual agreement. As said before, he was young and inexperienced along with needing the money to help fund his sequel. He didn't write much of it (he's not even credited as writer) and had very little involvement. Though it's quite likely he knew it was going to be shit before it was shown. I haven't seen but I've heard of the Droids and Ewoks series. Caravan of Courage is one of George Lucas's shitty spin offs of Starwars. I can't argue for Lucas on this one though... he had full creative control and it was still bad, not Holiday Special bad but still pretty bad.

There's nothing for me to forgive. All 6 episodes were quite fine. (Except for Ep. 2's awful romantic scenes. But even then, that's the only bad part)

I agree with everything you stated, Moviebob, except that I think Episodes Two and Three are not terrible. Episode Two is mediocre, sure, but not God awful. Episode Three, on the other hand, is only slightly worse than Episode Six.

And, while we're talking about the prequels, let's not forget the awesome Genndy Tartakovsky Clone Wars mini-series.

"...Romantic sand talk, redundant link to Red Letter Media's "Phantom Menace review, blah blah blah, etc. etc. etc."

Red Letter Media's Phantom Menace review isn't nearly widely enough known. It is the lemonade that has been made out of a trilogy of lemons.

Don't call that delicious lemonade redundant.

I don't flat-out hate the prequels, it just seems...I'll see if I can find the right words. It just seems that when I sit down to watch them, I'm watching a mediocre sci-fi film with a lot of flair, not something I would associate with Lucas; like his "touch" just isn't there, if that makes sense. Also the pacing of the story has always felt "off" for some reason, like the parts they're rushing should be slowed down, and vice versa.

Anyway, I don't feel I'm making much sense, so I'll leave it at that. Hope you could make something out of it.

MovieBob, have you ever been to TheForce.Net? Probably one of the most devoted fan sites out there, and as much as you rail on the haters here, they are actually quite a minority compared to the bulk of the site.

But anyway, this article seems to be a little confusing. First, you say you are with the more intensively adamant group, then you talk about how those same people should stop bitching.

This is the bloody internet! People aren't supposed to agree on anything!

And I'll say this: I enjoyed the prequels, but their casting was terrible. I love the Clone Wars TV show, and I love the Special edition.

So, if I enjoy any of these things, does that target me as an ignorant person who isn't a 'hardcore' fan? Or am I just part of the consumer mass? Where exactly does this put me at?

Sovvolf:

Scde2:

If he owned the rights why would he let (CBS?) mutilate his creation, after all, he did write for the show. I am probably sure that he knew that it sucked before it was regurgitated before the public. And sadly Lucas has a obsession with star wars and animation that did not end with the holiday special, ever hear about the TV series Droids and Ewoks?

Because they paid for the rights to use his characters and world in that show. Most likely through a contractual agreement. As said before, he was young and inexperienced along with needing the money to help fund his sequel. He didn't write much of it (he's not even credited as writer) and had very little involvement. Though it's quite likely he knew it was going to be shit before it was shown. I haven't seen but I've heard of the Droids and Ewoks series. Caravan of Courage is one of George Lucas's shitty spin offs of Starwars. I can't argue for Lucas on this one though... he had full creative control and it was still bad, not Holiday Special bad but still pretty bad.

While he did need the money, he could have had a more active role so it would not suck as bad as it did. Even though I doubt that being young and inexperienced had little to do with the outcome of the holiday special as numerous TV made shows he did/written for/authorized were fucking piles of shit. One you already mentioned, Caravan of Courage, then its sequel, The Battle for Endor, and movies compiled from Droids and Ewoks, The Great Heep, The Haunted Village, The Pirates and the Prince, Treasure of the Hidden Planet... At least they were not even close to the holiday special.

No... It's not time:

http://io9.com/5496171/george-lucas-wants-to-make-jedi-babies-tv-series

Sorry if someone has already posted this.

As much as I do not enjoy the new movies, and where Genndy Tartakovsky's Clone Wars are ridiculously better than the CG wrecks that follow, I don't begrudge Lucas for not making things that I like. I just don't like them.

I would be fine with the man, if he would just give me the Blu-Ray copies of the original trilogy, un-edited (the Han/Jabba edit is particularly ugly, no matter what issue you take with the retcon aspect of things), which I know he showers in, and swims in, and sleeps in, and builds his private outhouse out of, merely to be mean to his countless fans that love work which he despises.

I liked the 3 new movies (maybe aside of the whole Jar Jar thing), I also wouldn't buy or watch any other "Star Wars" versions than the Special Editions (hopefully soon in HD and Remastered), as much as I wouldn't watch any other Lord of the Rings versions other than the Extended xD

I don't get this whole thing :P

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