Zero Punctuation: Final Fantasy XIII

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Are you guys going to tell shitty taste for liking final fantasy 13, final fantasy in gereral, and JRPGS?

hitheremynameisbob:

yanipheonu:

Vestsao:
FFXIII is the only FF game I've played and I really like it... My heart is broken and I shall now email YZ about how wrong he is and how he should reviewing games..

Which raises a great point. A lot of the nay saying is due to nostalgia. Most (actually likely all, even the linearity) of the elements people don't like have been done in FFs before.

I know it would be wonderful if FFXIII was the same as your favourite, but Square wants to make what they want.

How is the naysaying due to nostalgia if all the points of contention are elements from previous games? That makes no sense :P

And regardless, it's almost the default "covering my ears, I'm not listening!" argument of people defending an entry into an established series to suggest this. Not that it doesn't ever happen, but really LISTEN to the things people are saying about it. The complaint isn't "this game has some minor linearity", it's "this game is TOO linear." There's a big difference there. The argument is thus that the game is more linear than its predecessors, not just that it is linear. Previous games all - repeat, ALL let you freely explore the environment to a certain extent (and I'm just talking about "Numbered" Final Fantasy games here, not Tactics, etc...) from the get-go. Sure you didn't get access to the entire world right off the bat, but unlocking more and more of it as you progressed and obtained new vehicles, etc... was part of the fun of exploring. They mixed this up a bit with FFX and FFXII, but you still had the ability to backtrack, sidequest, and explore a little bit (moreso in XII). Thus, completely removing this freedom from the game is a big change.

And yes, change isn't necessarily a bad thing, but having played the game myself I can safely say that, to me, every single mechanic change they implemented is just terrible, and makes XIII far less fun than any of the previous titles in the series.

ShibuyaRiver:
Again, this whole '20' hours thing has been blown out of the water as well.

The game is actually pretty fun and opens up within the first four hours. Jesus. Stop being sheep and listening to everything your internet celebs say.

Because nobody could possibly actually dislike something you like... How exactly does it "open up" in four hours? You for damned sure can't make it to Grand Pulse in that time, which is the 20 hour mark everyone else is referring to. You're probably just talking about the combat system fully unlocking, but I don't really care about that, since the whole system is **** as far as I'm concerned. The "opening up" bit people have been talking about is when the game stops forcing you to run down straight-line corridors punctuated on either end by cutscenes, and 20 hours is a pretty accurate guess on that.

The combat system is the least-involving, least-nuanced iteration that we've ever seen with the ATB. You only directly control one character, and even that is a tenuous claim, because most of the time you'll just be hitting the auto-battle button, since battles occur in real time and thus wasted seconds are truly wasted. You can issue your party general commands with the paradigms, but think of how simplified that has made things - your control over your entire party has been essentially whittled down to the same level of control you have over squadron-mates in flight combat games like HAWX or Ace Combat. "Attack, Defend, Support" has been expanded to include "attack with magic, debuff the enemy, and heal us", but it's still an incredibly basic, AI-reliant mechanic that ensures most of what you'll be doing in battles is watching from the sidelines, casually tapping one button again and again until you need to paradigm shift. It's all just BORING. At least with Gambits when the game played itself it did so based on the rules YOU set for it.

0_o Look back at the previous entries, it's not that different. The linearity as it is is extremly comperable to FF10.

In FF13 you have to go in on direction in order to get to the next plot point, and only later on can you truly explore, in Gran Pulse.

In FF10 you have to go in one direction in order to get to the next plot point, only later can you explore...

Well in FF7 it was a bit less linear. You had to go to specific place and only that one place in order to advance the plot, only later is there a place to explore... But hey there were towns!

That's not to say the FF series is devoid of exploration (although all start with some sort of restriction in travel), I'm just saying it's wrong to think this is the only "offender". Plenty of others have pulled it off. Clearly some people don't mind linearity.

Your opinion about the battle system is... wrong. In standard FF games, you'll be pressing attack, magic, defend, so on. Often when grinding, it will boil down to mashing A to attack over and over agian. Remakes of older FFs are starting to include auto-battle for this sake. YOu can switch it off in those games, and if it bothers you in 13, you can switch it from default.

I'm getting the feeling you haven't played that much. Later in the game, the battles get INTENSE. You'll be thankful you have auto-battle and only control one character, since you'll constantly need to switch in accordance to what is happening, more fun to me than selecting Cure or Attack manually.

To illustrate:

A standard FF battle

Attack
Haste
Attack
Attack
Attack
Cure
Attack
Firaga
Attack
Attack
Win

An FF13 battle

Attack Attack Attack Attack
Attack Attack Blitz
Paradigm Shift for healing
Ruin Ruin Attack Ruin
Paradigm Shift since everyone is low on health
Provoke Provoke Provoke *pressed triangle since you have enough aggro*
Mediguard Mediguard Mediguard *Triangle again, since everyone is healed*
Paradigm Shift for Full out attack
Attack Attack *stagger* Launch Smite
Win

At the very least, it's not that different, certainly not less-nuanced. I'd likely say more, these are probably some of the most involved battles in FF history.

Gotta say, congrats on the bar. I'm taking a year long sabbatical to Australia, and I'll defiantly swing by! Is ur place big or what?

Yup. If its still crap after 5 hours I'm not going to bother. I'll just go learn a language or a musical instrument instead.

PayJ567:
Wow, Was I the only one to find this episode.....Alot worse than usual?

I mean if you've got a load of work to do with other stuff do that, take a week off from making this show or something.

Well what can I expect from free entertainment.

That's kind of how I felt. I mean I am an FFanboy, and I certainly didn't expect Yahtzee to love the game or even avoid piddling on it, but...how would he say it?...

You could have at least played the whole game you lazy fucking twat. Get your dick out of your mouth, stop licking your own asshole, have your spine replaced since you had to have it removed to get your huge mouth down to your taint in the first place and play the game.

...Yeah, that might sum it up.

I have to agree with Yahtzee on this one, which kills me. This game is just bad. BUT, having only played five hours of it, with those five hours including datalog reading [which I gave up on two hours in], I don't think he really understands HOW bad the game is. There is literally no end to the breaking flaws in this game. I won't bother to list them here, seeing as that would be a waste of time AND since I'm not a game reviewer.

Let's just say this...FFXIII has three incongruous components to it:
1] Too many MMORPG elements [especially when a dedicated FFMMORPG is coming out later this year]
2] A proclivity to punish the gamer for just wanting to play the game [see above for primary concerns of this one]
3] Being veeeeeeeeeeery Japanese.

This things could actually stand alone from each other and still make for a fine game, but when you stick them together with modpodge the effect is really disquieting. When the developers give you a new game + option that lets you skip the entire first 30~60 hours of gameplay, it should be a clue that even THEY know it's shit [Don't tell me it's NOT just that, either. You don't even get your final crystarium level until you defeat the last boss, and you haven't unlocked ANYTHING ELSE THAT IS NEW.].

Anyway, I'm starting to go on about it, which was not my intent.

What I wish is that Yahtzee would finish playing the game and give us a second review, this time maybe more than five minutes flat, extolling the horrors that is poor game design coupled with a AAA-title-making franchise and fanboy rabies. It might be the only thing that makes me feel like the game was worth playing through.

[DELETED]

I love this game; it's rare that I would pull an all-nighter on a game. This game made me do two in a row.

*on topic* I completely agree with the ridiculous names and the Hope bashing. I'm surprised he didn't mention the main characters hair colors, as three of them (Lightning, Vanille, Serah) have differing shades of pink.

@Beauwight

You, sir, are not raised to a higher intellectual being by using such words in so uncreative a manner. You are obviously TOO much of a fanboy to realize the GAME FUCKING SUCKS...this coming from a 20 year veteran of the series who IS willing to look at [GASP] the truth. I think your face wouldn't reach your dick even if you HAD your spine removed.

I mean, Christ, I've been a user here for almost 16 months, and have only made three posts...one of which I had to dedicate to YOU, the excrementally-challenged version of we respectable JRPGers who have the common sense to not only know that Magna Carta is Korean, but that it, also, sucks rectal tissue.

Etc., Etc.

Oskamunda:
@Beauwight

You, sir, are not raised to a higher intellectual being by using such words in so uncreative a manner. You are obviously TOO much of a fanboy to realize the GAME FUCKING SUCKS...this coming from a 20 year veteran of the series who IS willing to look at [GASP] the truth. I think your face wouldn't reach your dick even if you HAD your spine removed.

Or you could be different people with different tastes and opinions. CRAZY I KNOW!

You know there is a problem with a game when the R of the RPG has been slapped away from the core of the game like a gimp in a office of the congressional pages.

I was so bored I actually become more productive at work...

Yahtzee does it again very well done as always. I just wish you did finish the game before reviewing it.

I Just Knew You Would Tear It Apart, But...Damn!

The ending was my favorite part. I would like to do the same to that character. In fact, I would like to stop playing but people keep beating me over the head with how it gets better 20 hours in and I bought the damn game so now I feel obligated.

. . .sigh. My own fault.

Fordo:

Velocity Eleven:
does anybody else think that he just did this to have a go at the genre? I mean, he talked about the actual gameplay very little and almost every single one of his complaints were based off the stereotypes that all JRPG haters tend to have... and none of those complaints have ever made sense to me... (and respouting them doesnt make them sensical)

If I may,
Yahtz did point out that at one time he did like RPG's (FF6). Which I agree was the best RPG evar. Perhaps he did not talk much about gameplay because there isn't much to it. If you take out a lot of the exploration element in a FF game what can you do? Auto-fight is as effective as it is boring.

His points about generic, goofy, similar looking characters in EVERY FF since 7 I think should be well taken as well.

If f13 adds linear paths, more auto-fights, the same kind of players you've seen since 5 games ago, what do we do with our time besides read txt like a choose-your-own-adventure novel? Play with ability points?

I think yahtz's point is that it's been a long time since RPG's offered anything good. see KOTR1 vs 2.

meh, just my thoughts.

but thats what I dont get, how do the characters look even remotely alike? he compared cloud to squall, where's the similarity? he compared barret to amarant... again, what is he talking about? rikku and vannile? just because they're both "happy" in nature? I dont think i've seen a series that varies as much as the FF games do... I just dont see this "genericness" people keep talking about

yes FF13 you do use auto-fight a lot, however thats not where the strategy lies. you have to switch between paradigms, taking in to account the situation with the health, status effects and the enemies' stagger bar... you have to arrange the paradigms effectively. If an enemy's not staggered I end up switching between paradigms quite a lot, and it gets really tense, trying to think so quickly. Even if the enemy is staggered I sometimes have trouble deciding what paradigm to switch to if I'm damaged

and FF games have never been about the exploration, they're about the leveling, the customisation etc. I do think FF13 lacks in that area which is its downfall but Yahtzee's complaints were just "anti-jrpg rage"

RPGs are always very different, sure you always use attacks and magic and potions and so on, but thats just scratching the surface... what about all the varying development strategies? any genre can be seemed to be made bad if you just scratch the surface... its like saying mario and sonic are exactly the same cause you jump

Oskamunda:
@Beauwight

You, sir, are not raised to a higher intellectual being by using such words in so uncreative a manner. You are obviously TOO much of a fanboy to realize the GAME FUCKING SUCKS...this coming from a 20 year veteran of the series who IS willing to look at [GASP] the truth. I think your face wouldn't reach your dick even if you HAD your spine removed.

I mean, Christ, I've been a user here for almost 16 months, and have only made three posts...one of which I had to dedicate to YOU, the excrementally-challenged version of we respectable JRPGers who have the common sense to not only know that Magna Carta is Korean, but that it, also, sucks rectal tissue.

Etc., Etc.

IF you ask me, FF6 is overrated.

Anyone else notice the pics i the credits where he's beating up Vanille xD

Snow does get less unlikeable later in the game when he finally admits what an idiot he was earlier in the game.

I overall mostly like Final Fantasy XIII, they do eventually add enough for the player to do in the fights around hour 15 (I know, I know that is too long to play a game that you don't like). But it's a good game in the same way that Avatar has a good movie. A lot of it is about the visuals and sound.

As bad as it makes me feel to say this I still find more to like in FF XIII than most current Japanese RPGs. I found Eternal Sonata to be overly obsessed with Chopan for no apparent reason at all. And overall the combat is boring are repetitive. Star Ocean: TLH had decent combat but a cast of wholly unlikable characters that I sincerely hoped would all end up dead.

Sure FFXIII is linear, but most RPGs are linear or close to it with a group of sidequests. Exceptions exist of course but console RPGs have always been mostly linear games. The story is revealed over the course of the game and it does get much more obvious as the game precedes. For people who play these games uncovering the motivations of the characters is one of the big draws of the game.

I think taken alone FFXIII is a decent game taken alone but people have ridiculous expectations of the Final Fantasy series. Yahtzee, we all know you hate jRPGs, there isn't much point in you reviewing something you hate.

gamepopper101:
Unbiased, that's a laugh. You barely like Nintendo games, you hate games staring long lasting characters, you rarely review fighters, you almost always review a game with first person perspective.

Yeah... That's the joke.

There's a new JRPG game, Yahtzee hates it and all the fanboys have sand in their vagina. Who could have seen that coming? :P

Seriously, it was enjoyable as always with a few new unexpected nuances. Keep up the good work.

The Bandit:

TheSquirrelisKing:
-snip-

It. Was. Sarcasm.

If you can't see and understand that, you shouldn't be using a computer.

I understood that it was sarcasm, I was just making the point that many of his complaints are because the game is a part of genre that he is biased against.
Also if you can't play nice, I suggest you rethink who shouldn't be using a computer.

Even though I like the game, everything he said is spot on.

jericu:
I'm a big fan of Yahtzee, but this felt like a very unprofessional review. He admits that not only did he not finish the game, he only got 5 hours in and proclaimed it as ass, which is like taking a nibble off of a slice of cake and decreeing that the cake is disgusting. He can make all the arguments about how a game shouldn't have to take a long time to get good, but it doesn't make his decision to only play 5 hours any more valid. If it was taking him so long to get through the game then he should have A) Waited to review it until after he finished it and review a different game this week instead, like he did with Mass Effect 2, or B) Mark the review as a "First Impressions" like he did with The Witcher.

Are you serious? Who the hell plays a game that isn't fun for 5 hours? I wouldn't play a game for more than one if it isn't fun or any good. And then people claim the first 20 hours are boring? What. The. Hell.
If a game is bad, then you don't need to fully play it, to say it's bad. Easy as that.

Oskamunda:
@Beauwight

You, sir, are not raised to a higher intellectual being by using such words in so uncreative a manner. You are obviously TOO much of a fanboy to realize the GAME FUCKING SUCKS...this coming from a 20 year veteran of the series who IS willing to look at [GASP] the truth. I think your face wouldn't reach your dick even if you HAD your spine removed.

A 20 year veteran, eh? That's very impressive. I for one now certainly feel like taking your opinion to heart even though it is not backed up any discernible argument whatsoever. After all, this is the internet, and the random words of random people really do matter to me.

Honestly, people, let's try to back our honest opinions up with honest arguments rather than just meaningless chest-pounding ad hominems, eh? We are all on an equal footing here; in this context, only intellectual substance can ever truly mean anything. :)

@nicodeemus327

It's not about having differing opinions...If you take a look, you have just defended the one who lashed out at a professional game reviewer because, of course, only HIS OWN opinion should have validity. So much so, that said professional reviewer MUST obviously be an auto-ass-licking, auto-cock-munching, spineless layabout...just because the two individuals opinions did not line up.

What I'M talking about is the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory, or GIFT. It goes like this:

Normal Person + Anonymity + Audience = Total Fuckwad

So, if you please, before using sarcasm in an unbefitting situation, please reference your own words to fact and for relevance to the issue at hand.

Velocity Eleven:
but thats what I dont get, how do the characters look even remotely alike? he compared cloud to squall, where's the similarity? he compared barret to amarant... again, what is he talking about? rikku and vannile? just because they're both "happy" in nature? I dont think i've seen a series that varies as much as the FF games do... I just dont see this "genericness" people keep talking about

yes FF13 you do use auto-fight a lot, however thats not where the strategy lies. you have to switch between paradigms, taking in to account the situation with the health, status effects and the enemies' stagger bar... you have to arrange the paradigms effectively. If an enemy's not staggered I end up switching between paradigms quite a lot, and it gets really tense, trying to think so quickly. Even if the enemy is staggered I sometimes have trouble deciding what paradigm to switch to if I'm damaged

and FF games have never been about the exploration, they're about the leveling, the customisation etc. I do think FF13 lacks in that area which is its downfall but Yahtzee's complaints were just "anti-jrpg rage"

RPGs are always very different, sure you always use attacks and magic and potions and so on, but thats just scratching the surface... what about all the varying development strategies? any genre can be seemed to be made bad if you just scratch the surface... its like saying mario and sonic are exactly the same cause you jump

FF13 is slow at the start. Even if you liked the game its hard to deny that. Did you really think Yahtz would get over that considering he has an attention span less then my three year old?

At 4.34 he could have put in a snide remark like "At least I can still play beyonetta."

I never have nor never will care about the final fantasy series and it was good to see someone not sucking it off for the approval of the internet or hating it and getting blown up in a contraversy bomb.

Maybe next week we can have a review of the new pokemon games. We haven't had a good masterbation joke in a while. Im looking at you pokewalker!

Hold It!

How do you 'Play' Final Fantasy XIII?

The game is SO linear that it plays itself. Just press UP when not in battle. And when IN battle, the top option of the battle list is AUTO, so just select that. No shops, no exploring, auto-battle, linear pathways. You dont play FFXIII, it plays you.

Hopefully Versus will be better

krgskks:

jericu:
I'm a big fan of Yahtzee, but this felt like a very unprofessional review. He admits that not only did he not finish the game, he only got 5 hours in and proclaimed it as ass, which is like taking a nibble off of a slice of cake and decreeing that the cake is disgusting. He can make all the arguments about how a game shouldn't have to take a long time to get good, but it doesn't make his decision to only play 5 hours any more valid. If it was taking him so long to get through the game then he should have A) Waited to review it until after he finished it and review a different game this week instead, like he did with Mass Effect 2, or B) Mark the review as a "First Impressions" like he did with The Witcher.

Are you serious? Who the hell plays a game that isn't fun for 5 hours? I wouldn't play a game for more than one if it isn't fun or any good. And then people claim the first 20 hours are boring? What. The. Hell.
If a game is bad, then you don't need to fully play it, to say it's bad. Easy as that.

For the average gamer, this is absolutely true. However, Yahtzee is a game CRITIC. That is, someone who plays and reviews games as a living. Thus, as a critic, he is expected to at least finish a game before giving his opinion on it. Playing a game for 5 hours and saying it's bad without finishing the rest is like doing an eighth of your paperwork at work and telling your boss that you're done. If I was doing the paperwork out of boredom, and had no professional obligation to do all of it, then it would be fine to stop. However, if it's my FREAKING JOB to do it, then my boss has the right to expect me to do all of my work before saying I'm finished, as opposed to a fraction of it. Yahtzee may not like the game, but if it's his job to play through games and tell people how he feels based on the whole product, he doesn't have the right to do his review after 5 hours of a much longer game. He doesn't like the game, and office workers don't like paperwork. But you're getting payed to do it, so you have to do it, or find a new job.

I hate to say it, but he's spot on about FFXIII

linear maps (to an almost literal degree), uninvolving combat, and the first 20 or so hours feel like the intro.

If you can play this game for 5 hours straight then I salute you, and shall lay a flower at your grave

To be fair about the linerality, the creators did that because one of the themes was that the characters were being chased. The creators thought ot wouldn't make sense forthe characters to casually stroll around towns when they're on the run.

case_orange:
Only five hours? Damn, son, I'm impressed. I'd be good for like 2 hours, tops.

I was surprised he would even review this game, it seems like he'd equate it to chopping off his own dick you know?

jericu:
For the average gamer, this is absolutely true. However, Yahtzee is a game CRITIC. That is, someone who plays and reviews games as a living. Thus, as a critic, he is expected to at least finish a game before giving his opinion on it. Playing a game for 5 hours and saying it's bad without finishing the rest is like doing an eighth of your paperwork at work and telling your boss that you're done. If I was doing the paperwork out of boredom, and had no professional obligation to do all of it, then it would be fine to stop. However, if it's my FREAKING JOB to do it, then my boss has the right to expect me to do all of my work before saying I'm finished, as opposed to a fraction of it. Yahtzee may not like the game, but if it's his job to play through games and tell people how he feels based on the whole product, he doesn't have the right to do his review after 5 hours of a much longer game. He doesn't like the game, and office workers don't like paperwork. But you're getting payed to do it, so you have to do it, or find a new job.

To be fair most people don't really watch his videos for an actual review. We watch him because he's funny.

ammm... am i the only one that noticed he played the harp wrong? you're actually supposed to sit on the other side (where the pedals are:) and lean it on your shoulder...

krgskks:

Are you serious? Who the hell plays a game that isn't fun for 5 hours? I wouldn't play a game for more than one if it isn't fun or any good. And then people claim the first 20 hours are boring? What. The. Hell.
If a game is bad, then you don't need to fully play it, to say it's bad. Easy as that.

This man speaks the truth!
In fact I commend yahtzee for getting 5 hours into a boring/bad game. I've thrown away one or two bad/boring games in under 20 minutes because sometimes you just know that a game just isn't right for you. If its a good (or even an agreable) game you don't need to grind through it, you should realise suddenly that several hours have just disapeared.

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