Zero Punctuation: Final Fantasy XIII

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Mydnyght:
I checked and yep, there's already erotic fanart of the FF13 characters

Yeah, well, no shit, Croshaw.

Considering FF13 was released about a week before Christmas in Japan, it's safe to assume what was going on in the past three months.

How to train your dragon already had erotic furry fan"art" a month before the movie hit theaters.

qbanknight:

boholikeu:

ArsenalMark:

Almost almost every game is linear, that INCLUDES Final Fantasy, and they all open up towards the end, just like XIII, so I don't know why he's complaining about that. Footstep thing is true though >_>. If he actually bothered to play the game he would learn about the damn characters and a bit of their backgrounds.

I think he's referring more to the way that FF doesn't "hide" its linearity like other recent games do. It's true that most games are nothing more than "running down a corridor" when you get down to it, but in FF it's just much more noticeable.

Doesn't help that little "map" on the corner of your screen is literally a fucking corridor. It makes me wonder why they bothered putting one in

Well, I think the heart of his actual complaint was that he had only run down 3 corridors in five hours, not so much the problem of linearity so much that the game is extremely light on actual gameplay.

I realize I'm a bit shouting into the ether here, but MAN.

Dude. That was pretty heavily biased. You're not the target audience, clearly, but even still.

Its called character and world building. You show up, with people in a situation you're not supposed to understand, with world details you're not supposed to get, and coming to understand this sort of stuff is the essential hook of... Well, a WIDE stripe of novels, for one thing.

Also, it gets "good"... That is to say, closer to what you would call a traditional goal oriented gameplay skill equals reward format... Pretty much ten minutes after you quit, from the sound of it. Actually working the paradigm system is where the "gameplay" is. Managing roles, switching things in and out on the fly, it results in the same sort of battle-flow as every FF ever... But at ten times the speed.

Its just not that sort of game. Sure, those mechanics are there. But this kind of stuff has turned into what amounts to a visual novel with game mixed in. Hell, the raw linearity (Not something the FF series is known for, lets keep in mind) is basically the design studio saying "Fuckit, you are here for the story, dont like it, dont buy it." Which given the media hype we the savvy knew about it on the first hand, is a legitimate statement.

Sides. Same as 10... And 9.... And 8.... And oh yes, 7.... It goes through a long linear sequence then opens up.

I get none of this is a legitimate argument in your world. We dont come to ZP for serious, in depth, fine analysis, we come for the rough brutal high speed fun. Just... Stop working over stuff because its not your type, please?
The whole 5 hour thing... Yeah, it is unprofessional, too.

He really enjoyed this one! :P

He touched Sascha!

(I'll be genuinely surprised if I haven't been ninja'd with this post, but considering I'm 'doing assignments' I can't be arsed to look through 28 pages of comments to check)

I made it as far as Yahtzee did lol. 5 hours in and i put up my controller... I just want to say though.. I really liked Vanille.. The fact that her voice actor is Australian didnt hurt.. cause she sounds pretty hot some of the time =D

Astralpulse:
20 hours in order to get into a story is not acceptable. Not for a book or game. 5 hours should be quite acceptable to at least get a good grip on the story. FF XIII did not do this very well, at all, unless you read the datalogs, which is an extremely poor way to give story information for a game.

Not acceptable to you, maybe. But that says nothing about it except that you didn't have the patience to stick with it. And even if it is, Yahtzee is paid (I assume) to review games. It is NOT too much to ask to have said reviewer play the entire game before posting up a lot of hate-filled bilge online. Some of his points are correct, but others are disingenous, and he'd know why had he finished it. The Escapist's other review of FFXIII is far more balanced and truthful, if less amusing then this.

Why is this? Because they bothered to actually stick with it and play the game to the end. Now, if you or I were doing it that might be a bit much to ask, but for a professional job it's lazy at best and shocking at worst. If a movie critic watched the first half an hour of a film and wrote his review based on that he'd be ridiculed, and rightly so. Same logic applies here.

I personally found the story easy to get a grip on, and I'm really not getting the hate on this Datalog business. The game is giving you more information then you need, for those who want to know more about the world and its characters, in an easy to find, simple, and completely optional format. What's not to like? It's not like you wouldn't understand anything if you didn't read them.

Astralpulse:
No. No no no no no no. No. The outro to this video, where he killed off Vanille about 5 different ways? Hell yes. Vanille, Snow, Fang, Lightning, Hope; all terrible, all the the way through the game. Sazh was the only good character in the game.

Any evidence to back up this blanket statement? Or are you saying "I didn't like them, so they sucked!"? Sazh is the best character, I agree, but I liked Snow, Fang, and Lightning personally. Hope starts off whiny but gets better over time, and even Vanille grows on the player. None of them are terrible, and all of them go through character development provided you don't abandon the game. None of them are perfectly likeable, but that's realistic. If I ever met Snow, I'd probably punch him too, but that doesn't mean he's a terrible character- quite the opposite. Realism is part of what makes a good character.

Astralpulse:
I can partially agree here. Anyone who frequents here knows Yahtzee hates JRPGs, so it would be much better to go read the thousands of posts on other forums saying some of the same things Yahtzee does here.

This game was the worst in the FF franchise.

One, I am not a regular on here. Two, I have read other reviews, and though most of them do point out some of the same flaws that ZP does, most of them at least go to the effort to point out the good parts, too. That's part of what makes a critic as opposed to simply someone who plays a bit of the game and declares it terrible- which is, ironically, exactly what ZP's done here. I'm not saying some of these complaints aren't valid, because they are. I'm saying the review is lazy and because of that it paints an misleading picture of how bad the game is. Again, he stuck with Heavy Rain despite being even more disconnected from the game then with FFXIII, and was able to point out that getting better over time was a redeeming point. The exact same is true of FFXIII, but he doesn't do the same here because he's not given it a fair review.

Great review, I'm not sure if Yahtzee is trustworthy to JRPG players but this game really looked fishy ever sense it was announced.
But I especially really liked the credits slide show, so much that I made a short animation based on it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WofhuJm8Zc

All my reservations about Final Fantasy and perplexity as to it's success summed up in a neat five minute vid. Well done again, Yahtzee.

FLWD2L8:
I have to admit .. As much as i like the final fantasy range
Final fantasy 13 has seriously been dumbed down for those that have never played it before.
For the rest of us that have actually kept up with the combat and storyline
It just takes way too long to get to the open world.
I stopped at about 10 hours in and cannot be arse to go any further
I mean its probably gonna be one of those games that i play when im on holidays
Purely and simple for something to pass the time with ..
I mean i cant comment on the XBOX version of the game .. im only playing it on PS3 and its only one disc
And apparently its worse on XBOX ..
How the FRICKEN HELL can it be worse ..
I love FF games .. but i just cant stand this one ..
Im gonna agree with yahtzee on this ... It might have been worth it if there was so much linearity to the game ..

!! END RANT !!

when they say "worse" they basically mean they cba switching disks...ooo and the graphics are slightly worse, but not much...

yeh basically theirs is no difference in the important aspects of the game, like game play =)

Its not so much about being a fanboy. I bought 13 on a whim, after having relegated the rest to rental status, I play more "western" games than "eastern", having largely outgrown my teenage taste for this kind of game.

But plain and simple, its targeted at the sort of person who wants to come into a story, see the characters learn about each other (Which is "our" 'in' to their world, and how we see their character development) and have spectacular if not particularly taxing combat that is more strategic than reflexive.

He didnt hate it because it was a bad game, he hated because he didnt like the type, and presented it as a legitimate 'This is a bad product' statement. Which. It just isnt.

Swmystery:

Astralpulse:
20 hours in order to get into a story is not acceptable. Not for a book or game. 5 hours should be quite acceptable to at least get a good grip on the story. FF XIII did not do this very well, at all, unless you read the datalogs, which is an extremely poor way to give story information for a game.

Not acceptable to you, maybe. But that says nothing about it except that you didn't have the patience to stick with it.

Sorry, but waiting 20 hours for something to get good is not patience, it's simple fanboy "this has to get good eventually" stubbornness.

I seriously can't wait for the day that good editing is as valued in video games as it is in literature/film.

Teyaric:
Its not so much about being a fanboy. I bought 13 on a whim, after having relegated the rest to rental status, I play more "western" games than "eastern", having largely outgrown my teenage taste for this kind of game.

But plain and simple, its targeted at the sort of person who wants to come into a story, see the characters learn about each other (Which is "our" 'in' to their world, and how we see their character development) and have spectacular if not particularly taxing combat that is more strategic than reflexive.

He didnt hate it because it was a bad game, he hated because he didnt like the type, and presented it as a legitimate 'This is a bad product' statement. Which. It just isnt.

20 hours before you get actual story is not a game, it is a chore.

kdanielss:

But I especially really liked the credits slide show, so much that I made a short animation based on it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WofhuJm8Zc

Good animation man. Quite amusing.

Yahtzee reviewing a game that he will surely hate makes me happy. Although, it saddens me that you only played 5 hours... It would have been funnier if you played the entire game. (For me anyway)

Anywho, here's hoping that he reviews Sakura Wars: So Long My Love. It's a dating sim/SRPG game with some musical numbers. I wonder if he'd even last an hour and a half before he got to the combat portion of the game.

The ending made me had multiple orgasms

20 hours before you get actual story is not a game, it is a chore.

It's not 20 hours until you get to the story, the story starts immediately. It's twenty hours until you get to anything resembling nonlinear gameplay.

The game doesn't even let you decide what members you use in your party until three hours before this, even in situations where you have four plus people in your party.

As someone who has played up to the "open" world part, the game's a seven out of ten at best, and only if you like jRPGs. There's fun to be had, but you really have to work to get at it, which is a shame. This game could have been a lot better.

Didn't Yahtzee himself claim that Heavy Rain was a game that was 'worth playing because it gets better at the end'? Why does FFXIII not get the same treatment? I will admit, the gifts this game has are handed out at the same pace as a Hanukkah celebration, but each one adds so much to the game you forget that you just spent 5 hours in between each set.

Things he didn't touch:
Item Expansion through EXP
Summons for each character
Free World Roaming
The immense end-game play
About 24 other things Yahtzee doesn't give a damn about. Like the characters backstories.

Also, 'It's on three discs!' Yeah cuz it was originally made for the PS3. Then they decided they like money and released it for the 360, which he somehow managed to not poke fun at. Though to his credit he was too busy reading the script he's carved into the desert sands of Australia that he is required to read whenever the the letter J touches R, P, and G.

Your post is bullshit and you know it. Anyone without a learning disability can handle "gifts" like Summons (mash A to win), item expansion (use organics, then mechanics), and being able to rotate characters in and out of your fucking party without twenty hours of handholding.

Umm... why are you guys critizing Yahtzee for only doing five hours of this? He is busy, and we wouldn't of gotten a review this week. A lot if games are near half way over at that point these days, and if a game has not gotten good by that point no gamer really should be forced to endure another 15 hours for that.

WhiteTiger225:
...to try and con us mana fans into playing the FF series...

You realize that the Mana series is still the FF series right?
Secret of Mana (NA) = Final Fantasy Adventure II (JPN)

Just thought I'd point that out...

YOU PLAYED 5 HOURS OF IT?
Oh, you brave soul, you must be tired from your terrible ordeal. Welcome back from hell XD

P.S, I'm suprised Yahtzee used to like FF6. If some one said that a day earlier we would of mistaken that guy for a loony :S

reviewing a game you didn't even play fully? well done Yahtzee, mediocrity is your forté :)

SilentSh0tz:

But Final Fantasy kind of has lost it's footing off the actual storyline, so they try to fill in the holes that the last one leaves sloppily. Now there really is no storyline to jump off of.

Let me understand: Are you saying that FFXII leaves plotholes for FFXIII to fill?

Bwahahahahaha! Okay, that made me laugh. Great work! ;)

I don't understand why the epitome of the posters here fit the decree of one-sided decisions. Zero Punctuation is not law on how games should be handled or dealt with. In fact, a lot of the this is humor for us which is personally why I watch his reviews. He's very hands-on with critical flaws that zealous fans seem to stray from because their game is more than just a religion.

All the responses are either, "my golly, you are simply a [blank] because you only played it for five hours.' The others are "my golly, you managed to live through this wretched AIDS infested paradise we call a game for five whole hours? If this was an Olympic game, you would have won two gold medals!"

What I got from this video was that Yahtzee's opinion stood strong. He doesn't like turn-based games or JPRGs, both of which are valid reasons. I hate sports games because if anyone is going to spend $60 on a game to throw a ball to a buddy could have bought several footballs for the same price to do the same exact thing.

I personally enjoy Final Fantasy XIII with all it's weird forgettable characters, flat environments, and horrible level-up scheme. The reason is because it's my personal taste. I hated "The World Ends With You," and several other titles. It just goes to show that there's always a "red and blue" side to things. It's as bad as the PS3 vs 360 fan base.

Thank you for the video, Yahtzee. You're one reason I look forward to Wednesdays.

You liked it more than I expected. Seriously.

i love ff13 and only playing 5 hours ha. Try reviewing it after you finish it

just so you know i'm biased toward jrpgs because i like games where devs give a damn about making a good story

and sorry i couldn't survive watching it so i quit about 2 or so minutes in

5 hours seems like plenty to me.
If it hasn't even remotely captured your interest by that point, it probably never will.
(and yes, i like a lot of jrpgs)

Oh, how I'm late. But, uh...Toldja so.

I can't really say anything more that hasn't already been said, both right now and what I said months ago about how something like this would go. I'm actually surprised Mr. Ben reviewed it, as a wayaward "what if" post about this happening caused me to become so outspoken about here in the first place. These complaints that Yahtzee made are very similar to the ones I made when the game came out in Japan, views being shared with people who actually reviewed the game for a living (As I've said in previous posts I've made on the subject). Hell, even before then I was wary because Square has been getting into a nasty trend as of late.

Addendum: Reading over most posts in the thread, I'd like to further something. The tone of the vid wouldn't change if he played more than 5 hours. This is because the amount of flaws to time ratio this game is rather relative. Like the fact that once you reach the "Open World" part of the game, it's already over. To reiterate, the same shit that happened in Final Fantasy X, only without towns, puzzles, lore, or sidequests to add immersion to the world.

But hey, I think I'm done on the subject (finally). The game was described as what it was. It's not the worst game evar, but it surely one of the most overrated in the past couple years, even though it's only been out for such a short time. There REALLY isn'tmuch else to add, except argue over the fact that it could've been better without a little more polish and care, or argue that everyone that hates it is blinded by it's perfection ala Final Fantasy 7.

Just skimmed this topic to check how may more people have written an unforgivably long account of how his review was WRONG (everything has faults no matter how much you like it - oh and OPINION CANT BE WRONG). A few even had typos where presumably they couldn't see the key board through tears.
It makes for amusing reading but it also makes me lose faith in humanity a little.

SilentSh0tz:

Yes we understand maybe the 5 more hours of CGI was worth the playing.
But Final Fantasy kind of has lost it's footing off the actual storyline, so they try to fill in the holes that the last one leaves sloppily. Now there really is no storyline to jump off of.

Wait, you think theres a continuing story throughout all 13 games?

Wow...

Looking forward to this week's Extra Punctuation.
"waaaah waaahhh you didn't play more than 5 hours" --paraphrased from half the posters

jewbagel:
Someone needs to tell Square Enix to just stop. They lost that special Final Fantasy magic a decade ago. Does this still appeal to anyone? Even the Japanese?

5 hours, hats off to you my good man.

They make 'em for the erotic doujins.
That's the only thing FF has goin' for it now.

aoi287:
5 hours seems like plenty to me.
If it hasn't even remotely captured your interest by that point, it probably never will.
(and yes, i like a lot of jrpgs)

agreed. I found the same problem with Star Ocean - bland charcters, awful voice acting and I'm more of a fan of turn based. I got about 2 hours in and, while it started to get better, I got the feeling it wasn't going to get that much better. Read a range of reviews and they all confirmed how I felt so I took it back. Revisiting Lost Odyssey now and I seem to appreciate that so much more.

Might give FF13 more of a chance some day. There's just much better games to play in the meantime..

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