Yahtzee vs. the JRPG

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Yahtzee vs. the JRPG

What JRPGs does Yahtzee actually like?

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Isnīt "Beat it to the rush to give me money" simpsons joke?

I definitely agree that, when it comes to JRPGs, if you don't like the characters or plot (or, to a lesser extent, the combat system) then you won't like the game. Also, I just preordered Mogworld!

But I don't think you can say that it is impossible to play FF13... You only got 5 hours in, only unlocked the barest bones of the combat system. Though I do agree with you about the crystarium... We should have just gotten traditional leveling, and at the end, we choose which role we want to level up.

awesomeClaw:
Isnīt "Beat it to the rush to give me money" simpsons joke?

Yes, it's "Be the first on your block to give me money!" I believe. I don't remember the episode or context, although I think it's Homer advertising the chance to catch chicken pox from Maggie.

EDIT: Now I remember- it's the story about Mozart (Bart), and after he dies, Mozart's father (Homer) runs grieving into the street and tries to sell death masks.

On topic: Starting a story in medias res is a good way to confuse me. I'd like a game that starts with your character... starting the story. This also goes for amnesia stories. I want to start out before anything game-plot-affecting occurs.

I can abide the JRPG format when I find the story interesting and compelling. For all the shtick FF7 gets for kicking off the spectacle-fighter-ish trend of RPGs which really don't involve roleplaying or indeed really any game playing, the story really was compelling enough that the thinner gameplay didn't bother me. It comes to me as no surprise and a great disappointment that they have taken to the Nintendo method of game making by which I mean just basically releasing iterations of the same game.

Caiti Voltaire:
I can abide the JRPG format when I find the story interesting and compelling. For all the shtick FF7 gets for kicking off the spectacle-fighter-ish trend of RPGs which really don't involve roleplaying or indeed really any game playing, the story really was compelling enough that the thinner gameplay didn't bother me. It comes to me as no surprise and a great disappointment that they have taken to the Nintendo method of game making by which I mean just basically releasing iterations of the same game.

That may be true, but at least Nintendo's iterations are consistently FUN.

Hell yes, Yahtzee likes Chrono Trigger! That just won so many points.

FBPH:
That may be true, but at least Nintendo's iterations are consistently FUN.

The analogy wasn't a comment on the enjoyment value of the games but rather the fact that they're basically doing the same thing.

Though, really, if you've bought one Zelda game you've played them all. Its the Paper Mario series that always intrigues me.

I had to tap out on FF XIII after about 5 hours as well. I didn't think the game was "bad" but it just took too long to get going for my tastes and the combat was too repetitive to really enjoy. I didn't see why the game felt I was unable to control more than 1 character after other final fantasy games have had up to 5 characters to control if I remember correctly. Also, I was very disappointed that there wasn't a Japanese dialog option. JRPG dialog is MUCH more tolerable if the excessive body motions and random non-sequiters are not tied to people speaking English.

Bioshock technically starts in media res, doesn't it? I suppose a good difference in this case is that you don't actually KNOW you're starting in media res. It's only after certain revelations that you realize you're in the middle of the story, which I suppose is a really good thing?

Yahtzee Croshaw:
For the lion's share of the game the only real input the player has is during battles (and even that's a loose and uninvolving input)

And how exactly would you know what the "lion's share" of a 40-hour game consists of when you've only seen the first five? I wasn't a big fan of the game either, but I at least finished it before I started making claims like that. At last contextualize it like you did in the video.

(WHAAAAAAAAAA NO POKEMON?) but really I think he would like it. he also passed up another piece of gaming gold, in his sonic unleashed review, when he pointed out sonic didnt need another game he showed sonic chronicals, but that was a Bioware game done in JRPG fashion. A Bioware game, need I say more?

Final Fantasy XIII seems more like a cinema thing, much like how they wanted to be in the Spirits Within or even that movie Advent Children.

I dunno what to say about XIII though. I tried liking the game. I really do but it fails to hold up to the candle of the old school Final Fantasy storylines. Even the battle system of turn based combat is still unseparable despite major tweaks. But then again, Square does have the latency to make the storyline with more babbling nonsense for the next 10 hours till it gets it right. Of course the Chrono Trigger storyline is simplistic at the beginning but major complex at the end.

I wonder if Mr. Croshaw plays Mother 3 for that matter...

CyricZ:
Bioshock technically starts in media res, doesn't it? I suppose a good difference in this case is that you don't actually KNOW you're starting in media res. It's only after certain revelations that you realize you're in the middle of the story, which I suppose is a really good thing?

That's part of the whole premise though. Your character knows nothing more than you do when you start the game, but in FFXIII all the characters have some background and connections that you find out later, rather than an adventure where you gradually figure things out. Which makes it a good thing.

Looks like we have similar taste in RPG's, eh, Yahtzee?

FF6 is the only Final Fantasy game I liked too.

I am sadly a huge fan of JRPG's, But I will have to agree with Yahtzee on this. The "mainstream" JRPG's are... bleh. I became a fan of Nippon Ichi's game, I love turn based (Damn you Civ...) But the story telling in the Disgaea games has this rich sense of dark humour, borderline vulgarity (C'mon... A zombie with a horse weiner as a main weapon. Pictures of the main character in a very questionable situation all cleverly left to your imagination to determine what it is)

I gave up on FF after 10, or X ... seriously people aren't we past roman numerials yet? 11 MMORPG and as all Japanese/korean of those are pure grind fests. While 12 was horrible. And X2 was nothing for wanna be gamer games to collect the skimpest outfits for 3 girls.

What I am missing most about Many RPG's is. Well... Feeling for the plight and feeling part of it, working on leveling modifying characters to my play style, And having as much control as possible.

I can't help but feel gaming as a whole being so mainstream now, is focusing more on whats popular and hyping themselves up showcaseing pretty graphics so the graphic whores can sit around and watch those lovly graphics rather than have them used in any intensive gameplay mechanic.

If you disagree look at the trend of Shoot em ups. All tough space marines with massive armor, all racing games sporting the best cars and graphics etc etc...

Maybe I just got too cynical for todays popular games. Mind you I loved Modern Warfare 2 Multiplayer. ^^

Haha, three of the four games he mentioned are in my all-time-favourites-list of jRPGs!(not Earthbound, though I have played it). I like stories and history and I'm a perfectionist, so jRpgs are perfect for me.

FBPH:

Caiti Voltaire:
I can abide the JRPG format when I find the story interesting and compelling. For all the shtick FF7 gets for kicking off the spectacle-fighter-ish trend of RPGs which really don't involve roleplaying or indeed really any game playing, the story really was compelling enough that the thinner gameplay didn't bother me. It comes to me as no surprise and a great disappointment that they have taken to the Nintendo method of game making by which I mean just basically releasing iterations of the same game.

That may be true, but at least Nintendo's iterations are consistently FUN.

So, so true. Thank you for pointing this out.

Suskie:

Yahtzee Croshaw:
For the lion's share of the game the only real input the player has is during battles (and even that's a loose and uninvolving input)

And how exactly would you know what the "lion's share" of a 40-hour game consists of when you've only seen the first five? I wasn't a big fan of the game either, but I at least finished it before I started making claims like that. At last contextualize it like you did in the video.

To be fair to Yahtzee, if a game isn't interesting by it's 4th Hour, it IS wasting time and as good as FFXIII gets around hour 15, that's still 15 hours of SLOG that you have to get through. It's bad storytelling and it's bad game design.

I have now watched the game for 20 hours, and it now "opens up"
but now I just want to finish the game and get it over with.

I am not going to bother with it,

I'll vouch for Yahtzee as someone who played the game for a more extended period of time. If this game had come out with a different title, no one would have touched it. It's bad design, through and through.

Zukonub:
But I don't think you can say that it is impossible to play FF13... You only got 5 hours in, only unlocked the barest bones of the combat system.

He mentioned why waiting to get to the best parts is not a good selling point, using Plan 9 and putting your hand on a stove as metaphors (both in different reviews).

That said, I want to know if he's ever played Persona 3 and/or 4, and what his thoughts on them were. I guess he really just can't be bothered to play them, given his apparently busy schedule.

PedroSteckecilo:

Suskie:

Yahtzee Croshaw:
For the lion's share of the game the only real input the player has is during battles (and even that's a loose and uninvolving input)

And how exactly would you know what the "lion's share" of a 40-hour game consists of when you've only seen the first five? I wasn't a big fan of the game either, but I at least finished it before I started making claims like that. At last contextualize it like you did in the video.

To be fair to Yahtzee, if a game isn't interesting by it's 4th Hour, it IS wasting time and as good as FFXIII gets around hour 15, that's still 15 hours of SLOG that you have to get through. It's bad storytelling and it's bad game design.

I agree to an extent, even if it's a game that requires an enormous overall time commitment. I think what bothered me was the way he phrased it. Realistically, he has no idea what the "lion's share" of the game consists of.

i love final fantasy 6, earthbound, and paper mario but i haven't played chrono trigger :(...

PedroSteckecilo:

Suskie:

Yahtzee Croshaw:
For the lion's share of the game the only real input the player has is during battles (and even that's a loose and uninvolving input)

And how exactly would you know what the "lion's share" of a 40-hour game consists of when you've only seen the first five? I wasn't a big fan of the game either, but I at least finished it before I started making claims like that. At last contextualize it like you did in the video.

To be fair to Yahtzee, if a game isn't interesting by it's 4th Hour, it IS wasting time and as good as FFXIII gets around hour 15, that's still 15 hours of SLOG that you have to get through. It's bad storytelling and it's bad game design.

Agreed. Games, like books, movies, and other forms of storytelling, have to have that critical "hook" to pull you in and keep you interested. If there is no hook, no golden nugget in the river bed, then there's no reason to go through the trouble of digging in the dirt, regardless of how profitable the gold mine might theoretically be.

Have you ever played FFIX? It's kind of a throwback to pre-FFVII, and it's actually my favourite in the series. I never really liked FFVII, FFVIII or FFX and later, I prefer fantasy over sci-fi in Final Fantasy games.

spamalot314:
That's part of the whole premise though. Your character knows nothing more than you do when you start the game, but in FFXIII all the characters have some background and connections that you find out later, rather than an adventure where you gradually figure things out. Which makes it a good thing.

That's one of the problems with JRPGs. When your characters know more than you do and they seem to be going down a linear path regardless of what you do, well it just seems like your watching cinema where you occasionally have to mash buttons to progress through a scene transistion.

I don't see why FF7 is bad to him, since I felt it did more than just look pretty (back in the day of course).

I can see why he hates where FF as a series has gone (all trying to live up to VII but whatever)

I couldn't get into Oblivion, and Mass Effect hasn't really gotten to me (was hoping to finish it and try ME2 out but getting there will be a challenge)

maybe my gaming style simply isn't suited for RPGs anymore...don't have the time to invest these days

Suskie:

PedroSteckecilo:

Suskie:

Yahtzee Croshaw:
For the lion's share of the game the only real input the player has is during battles (and even that's a loose and uninvolving input)

And how exactly would you know what the "lion's share" of a 40-hour game consists of when you've only seen the first five? I wasn't a big fan of the game either, but I at least finished it before I started making claims like that. At last contextualize it like you did in the video.

To be fair to Yahtzee, if a game isn't interesting by it's 4th Hour, it IS wasting time and as good as FFXIII gets around hour 15, that's still 15 hours of SLOG that you have to get through. It's bad storytelling and it's bad game design.

I agree to an extent, even if it's a game that requires an enormous overall time commitment. I think what bothered me was the way he phrased it. Realistically, he has no idea what the "lion's share" of the game consists of.

Very true, he should have referred to this as an "Impression" like he did with The Witcher.

"Beat it to the rush to give me money" oh Yahtzee you silly silly man. I'll probably get Mogworld at sometimes after it initial release but now right away.

Yahtzee, are you willing to share any your other exceptions to the rule? Like do you like any fighting games, any RTS's, or any Multiplayer games? If you can find expections to something that you hate as much as JRPG's, and you have admitted to liking TF2 and WoW when you can't stand the human race, their has to be other exceptions your holding back on.

Yahtzee Croshaw:
...and I don't care what any official media says, if Vanille is over 16 I will suffocate myself with a miniskirt

As both a fan of spectacle, and someone who played more then the first five hours, I feel obliged to point out that...

I can respect that.

By the way, if you never did finish Chrono Trigger Yahtzee, you should try the DS remake. I know that that you hate remakes, but the New Game + mode makes it much faster to tackle the bosses for subsequent runs and to get the other endings, even if you still need to finish them the traditional way the first time.

Edit: New Game + was in original as well. I STAND HUMBLY CORRECTED.

T_ConX:

Yahtzee Croshaw:
...and I don't care what any official media says, if Vanille is over 16 I will suffocate myself with a miniskirt

What HAVE YOU DONE!? You've effectively killed Yahtzee!
You shall rue this day ConX...mark my words...

pretentiousname01:
I also have a sinking feeling that games like Fallout 3, Mass effect, and Dragon age, have ruined jrpgs for me.

Baulders gate, previous fallouts and kotor were all good. However lacking the same power that the aforementioned games had.

I'm in the same boat, so to speak.

Western RPGs (Fallout 3 in my case) and CRPGs (KotOR I and II, though II isn't strictly defined as a CRPG) have pretty much destroyed any promise that JRPGs can ever hold in my eyes (I suppose that which games bring this revelation to your eyes is a matter of personal taste, so I'll leave my other opinions out of this).

Granted, I still play Pokemon games, for some inexplicable reason (see my avatar). Probably nostalgia, but I could be missing something.

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