View From the Road: Cheaters Sometimes Win

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View From the Road: Cheaters Sometimes Win

When does cheating the StarCraft II metagame become cheating the actual game?

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PBR for Zerg?

I probably wouldn't care if someone pulled that on me. I don't consider myself the type to go easy on a handicapped opponent unless he explicitly asks me to. And if he doesn't but still whups me I consider it a lesson learned not to underestimate anyone.

Nah, that's not cheating. I don't believe anything my opponent says during a game. One player tried to trick me with a fake GG. He said GG as i was stomping through his main, and then tried to talk to me about different strats. All the while, he had a 2nd base, and was prepping a dropship attack. I wasn't amused.

I wouldn't call it cheating. Never underestimate your enemy. If after I made my forces I saw that the person was ill-equipped compared to me, I would only send some of my forces, while the others... did other stuff.

I think you might use the term "Gamesmanship" to describe this.

"Pushing the rules to the limit without getting caught, using whatever dubious methods possible to achieve the desired end." (Lumpkin, Stoll and Beller, 1994:92)

(Hooray for wikipedia)

Can't believe I actually used something from that damn Issues in Sports course... freakin filler class.

It's not really cheating, though it is definitely frowned upon. In actual sports it can be things like purposely fouling the other team to knock out an important player at the expense of having a mediocre one thrown out.

Which can lead to actual injuries.

Edit: Thats an extreme example, but the general definition would cover stuff like this.

Sun Tzu's the Art of War states that "ALL WAR IS DECEPTION"

if they believe u suck than thats their fault! :D

I go into every match as if im up against the best. So even when i stomp the guy i still stomp him proper and never let up on the heat. n00b or not you should always crush your enemy with unrelenting force.

Edit: What the guy above me said too :D

lol, i hate, this, the beta vids and commentaries, all the journalists and critics talking about the game

its like starcraft is just this awesome exclusive game that only a room full of people are allowed to play, sometimes people forget that not everyone got a key, you are talking about a game that 95% of starcraft fans havent even played

Your opponents failed to account for the possibility that you were screwing them over. It's their fault that they lost. Manipulating your opponent in this way is neither cheating, nor illegal, nor even bad.

Silk_Sk:
I probably wouldn't care if someone pulled that on me. I don't consider myself the type to go easy on a handicapped opponent unless he explicitly asks me to. And if he doesn't but still whups me I consider it a lesson learned not to underestimate anyone.

I pretty much play under the same rules, I will treat each opponent fair, and with the smae degree of respect I would another...

And, if they did try and trick me, well, then at the end of the day they are just making themself look back more than anything else

Haha! I remember those!

I did that in a LAN party. We were playing Warcraft 3. I took a few glasses and they decided to let me live. It took me a little while, but they decided to fight between themselves. They destroyed one team with a rush. After that, the 2 big boys decided to fight between themselves for a goldmine.

While they were busy killing themselves, I hit one of them hard. The guy basicly had no troops except his 2nd hero. I finished him in a matter of seconds. The other guy was trying to rebuild his army.

I've noticed this in myself when loading a match. If the loading screen suggests the opponent is Favoured to win, I go all out and can often pull off a surprisingly good match, even if I eventually lose. And if I am favoured to win, I tend to slack and can often be kicking myself when I watch the replay as I see the exact point where I should have won, and didn't. The loading screen plays a big part in my win/lose ratio really. I should stop looking at the damn thing.

TitsMcGee1804:
lol, i hate, this, the beta vids and commentaries, all the journalists and critics talking about the game

its like starcraft is just this awesome exclusive game that only a room full of people are allowed to play, sometimes people forget that not everyone got a key, you are talking about a game that 95% of starcraft fans havent even played

And believe me, it will make it all the sweeter when it does come out :)

Desworks:
I've noticed this in myself when loading a match. If the loading screen suggests the opponent is Favoured to win, I go all out and can often pull off a surprisingly good match, even if I eventually lose. And if I am favoured to win, I tend to slack and can often be kicking myself when I watch the replay as I see the exact point where I should have won, and didn't. The loading screen plays a big part in my win/lose ratio really. I should stop looking at the damn thing.

This too. This happens to me *all the time.*

TitsMcGee1804:
lol, i hate, this, the beta vids and commentaries, all the journalists and critics talking about the game

its like starcraft is just this awesome exclusive game that only a room full of people are allowed to play, sometimes people forget that not everyone got a key, you are talking about a game that 95% of starcraft fans havent even played

Have you opted in? I signed up a week ago, it took them 2 days to send me a beta invite.

There is a commentator on youtube who employs "psychological warfare" on the other players at the start of his SC2 games, which is basically what's been described in this article. It's pretty funny the way he does it, too.
So yeah, this isn't anything too new.

TitsMcGee1804:
lol, i hate, this, the beta vids and commentaries, all the journalists and critics talking about the game

its like starcraft is just this awesome exclusive game that only a room full of people are allowed to play, sometimes people forget that not everyone got a key, you are talking about a game that 95% of starcraft fans havent even played

You CAN get to play it, however, even if Blizzard didn't send you the beta key. Some nice fellows are doing contests to give them away, be a part of them.

It isnt cheating its just your enemy is to effected by outside events as i have learnt never understimate anyone.I judge player by watching what is going on the battlefield and 9/10 ignore what people are saying to me.Several times i have had "newbies" pull out really thought out and hardcore tatics.

One night i was so drunk i could hardly see the screen but had one of the best W/L ratios ever and i never told anybody i was drunk.As it seemed my drunken subconsicous got mixed with a pro rts player that night.

And this is news how? Welcome to 'mind games 101'.

Kurt Horsting:
And this is news how? Welcome to 'mind games 101'.

This isn't news, it's a column. :P

It's a valid tactic. If you wanna win you can't afford to underestimate your opponent. Always be ruthless. Always be merciless. "It's a new player". Tough. Trial by fire. If people underestimate you they have only themselves to blame when they lose.

Is it cheap? It's arguable. But it's valid.

Ahh...the Zerg. My favorite race in SC, because its the only one I was good at.

John Funk:

Kurt Horsting:
And this is news how? Welcome to 'mind games 101'.

This isn't news, it's a column. :P

The newer generations of Escapees seem to think this is a news site. Me, I miss the old single-page layouts with their fine art interleaved with text!

Ahh yes, I myself have been giving the SC2 metagame a bit of an off-hand touch.
But you're totally right, making my opponents believe I'm under-skilled results in that underestimated win. Zerg-rushing one guy in a FFA and killing him in the first 3 minutes leads everyone to be looking out to bash your brains in and over-estimate you...
Just like any sport or game, psychology plays a big part.

As I recall, a famous Chinese man said "All war is based on deception." So fire away and cheat for all your worth you little scamp.

Just don't do it against me; as an Egoist, that will quickly get my dander up.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Damn..One more reason for me not to try RTSs - not only do I know they're not my specialty, now I'd have to know multiple tactics in order to be able to choose from for when I encounter one of those .. mind trick-playing tricksters!

(wow, did I butcher that sentence good :D)

I think this would be less likely to work in a serious ladder match. I suppose you could take it a step further by bribing or threatening them..

Nimbus:

TitsMcGee1804:
lol, i hate, this, the beta vids and commentaries, all the journalists and critics talking about the game

its like starcraft is just this awesome exclusive game that only a room full of people are allowed to play, sometimes people forget that not everyone got a key, you are talking about a game that 95% of starcraft fans havent even played

Have you opted in? I signed up a week ago, it took them 2 days to send me a beta invite.

That's because you're a lucky bastard :P I opted in the moment the option became available (i.e. months ago) and my inbox is sorely lacking in beta invites :(

It is call psyche warfare and it is perfectly fair. You can say what ever you want to your opponent to annoy them or make them think you suck, they should know it keep cool and play their best no matter what. After all you are wasting APM on the chat as opposed to the game so you aren't getting it for free.

No, you're not cheating (hell, Sun Tzu would give you a high five for essentially following his intellegence strategy), but it is being a bit of a dick...

From chapter 1 of Sun Tzu's The Art of War-Lionel Giles Translation

18. All warfare is based on deception.
19. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem
inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we
must make him believe we are near.
20. Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him.
21. If he is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him.
22. If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow
arrogant.

everyone that wants to get better at Starcraft 2 or any RTS should read this book its less than 40 pages.

You gotta list the SC2 beer recommendations.

Psyching out your competition in chat or otherwise is definately not cheating. It might be a question of sportsmanship. I've never been so competitive as to do that, or to be offended if someone else did that to me. Though if I knew someone IRL or even over the Internet who made a habit of that, I might be less likely to go out for beers on Friday night.

I was thinking, hey, maybe I should try this one playing against my friend on C&C3. then that made me think, this wont work against him... so no, i dont think it is cheating

Perhaps it isn't because you pretended to be drunk at all. Perhaps you kept winning because opponents just assumed you wouldn't rely on something as irritating and ungentlemanly as zerg rushing.

Even if people fell for such deception, I don't think it counts as cheating. It is common to bluff and mislead players in games with a strategic element - like poker or hungry hippos. These people shouldn't be letting up in the slightest just because they may think your drunk.

Cheating? No

Underhanded? Probably

Valid tactic? Definitely

On a related topic it is my experience that my gaming improves when having a bit of a buzz on. Being completely inebriated is of course devastating and often leads to keyboard patterns on my face. What I mean is having a few drinks with dinner, after a late night where you are starting to get sober or perhaps during an evening in good company. Basically in situations where alcohol is involved but you are not - well - shitfaced. In those cases my game improves. I have the most experience in fps on this account but it also holds true in beat 'em ups and other reaction based games. It is my opinion that the alcohol relaxes my in such a degree that instead of over thinking my tactics I just let them flow. Another valid reason might be that I am just that bad.

You realize that Zerg are the easiest, most OP race of the three. There are three standard Zerg almost auto win strats. Strat 1) Speedlings... lots and lots of speedlings (zerglings with the speed upgrade) and if you still need firepower after that, for whatever reason, Banelings are good for ramming walls or defenses. Strat 2 (the one you used)) Roaches... lots and lots of OP roaches that have ridiculous damage and armor with the ability to heal, in burrow especially, if they run into trouble. Strat 3) If all else fails and the game lasts long enough, spam Ultralisks and you are unstoppable.

All of these strats only require Attack Moving to a location and almost not paying attention to them at all while you spam more units at your base. So you winning with roaches most of the time has nothing to do with informing them that you were drunk. Plus, depending on what league you were playing in (which I would guess Copper / Bronze from how you said the other people were playing) there are plenty of horrible people there.

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