Let's Not Ban RapeLay

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Let's Not Ban RapeLay

Banning videogames about rape sounds like a good idea. Here's why it's not.

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Um... yeah, according to Kotaku they officially banned rape games in Japan itself, which is some news...

Has anyone here ever played Rapelay?

I have. My and mah buddies decided it would be good for a laugh to download it and play it. And it was, that game is impossible to take seriously. Not to mention that the graphics are so basic that the...organs clip through each other in the most ludicrous of ways, it's not even that graphic, nowhere near how bad the media portrays it. Obviously, it's still horrible in places, but it's hardly the bringer of the end times.

And yes, I think it shouldn't be banned. As long as they have proper safeguards so they can't get into childrens hands (although they'd probably find it as amusing as I did) then any consenting adult should be allowed to buy it, should they so wish. Freedom to choose, and all that.

That way, we can gloss over what is really at its heart quite a poor, silly game and promote the good ones.

sinclose:
Um... yeah, according to Kotaku they officially banned rape games in Japan itself, which is some news...

Not... really.

They're just not calling them rape games anymore. Unless something's changed since then.

It is a problem...you ban one, and then, another and another.

Soon, only games we will be able to play will contain fluffy clouds and good will towards everyne..

John Funk:

sinclose:
Um... yeah, according to Kotaku they officially banned rape games in Japan itself, which is some news...

Not... really.

They're just not calling them rape games anymore. Unless something's changed since then.

Whatever be the case, these games are normally meant to act as 'social valves' to let people live out their fantasies virtually instead of criminally(although the recorded crimes in Japan are beyond sadistic)
What I'll never agree with, though, is kiddie porn.
Japan enforced strict laws on that(outside animation and manga) only after foreign pressure to regulate that content.

sinclose:

John Funk:

sinclose:
Um... yeah, according to Kotaku they officially banned rape games in Japan itself, which is some news...

Not... really.

They're just not calling them rape games anymore. Unless something's changed since then.

Whatever be the case, these games are normally meant to act as 'social valves' to let people live out their fantasies virtually instead of criminally(although the recorded crimes in Japan are beyond sadistic)
What I'll never agree with, though, is kiddie porn.
Japan enforced strict laws on that(outside animation and mange) only after foreign pressure to regulate that content.

I disagree on the last bit, I am for that ANY content should be allowed as long as its properly marked. I dont want a government or any official organ to decide for me what is good for my mind or not. I'm perfectly happy to do that myself. As long as no real kids are hurt making such a game, I say bring it on. I'm not interested in playing something like that myself, but I like to know that I can if I want to.

Banning things that do not hurt anyone is beyond stupid. No one is forcing anyone to play it, so if you dont like it, dont play it.

Of course we shouldn't ban it I mean wtf? Why should we ban it? Is this the old bullshit claim that if you play a rape game you're automatically a rapist yourself? Riiight. I suppose that if you see gay you do gay aswell then? If you play GTA IV then you're a fucking psychopath that needs to be chained to the bathroom pipes every night in case you get any funny ideas like killing your neighboor with a lawnmower..?

It's bullshit. Games are a form of escapism, what seperates it from books and movies etc is that it's interactive. If we have a fantasy that we desperatly we want to live out what better way to role-play than in a game. I have a drivers license but I would never dream of driving reclessly like a fucking idiot. That's what racing games are for, or GTA IV with it's uber realism.

If I want to kill people, I play Manhunt. It certainly doesn't mean I'm a lunatic, just that I need to vent my frustrations. That's why I'm still waiting for developers to let us kill children. Ever sit next to a annoying kid in the buss that just behaves like a brat and won't shut up? You can't slap him on the spot but it'd be nice to play a game where the only thing you're doing is killing kids.

Not a long time ago there was a thread about if we should be able to kill the US president in a game. Why the hell not? I think we can all agree that politicians are bastards so why not let us vent? Better to do it in a game then sending them a letter with white powder.

For the record I've played the game with my friends and it was very interesting. In my eyes it was an interactive porn movie, living out a fantasy of a man who's in complete control, dominating and utterly deciding another persons life. I see nothing wrong with it. Let people enjoy the game. Bloody hell

Good article and well written! You've made a good point about how everyone assumes that if a game isnt banned then children will automatically start playing it. Will you post again with info on the debate? It'd be interesting to see the outcome.

tzimize:

sinclose:

John Funk:

sinclose:
Um... yeah, according to Kotaku they officially banned rape games in Japan itself, which is some news...

Not... really.

They're just not calling them rape games anymore. Unless something's changed since then.

Whatever be the case, these games are normally meant to act as 'social valves' to let people live out their fantasies virtually instead of criminally(although the recorded crimes in Japan are beyond sadistic)
What I'll never agree with, though, is kiddie porn.
Japan enforced strict laws on that(outside animation and mange) only after foreign pressure to regulate that content.

I disagree on the last bit, I am for that ANY content should be allowed as long as its properly marked. I dont want a government or any official organ to decide for me what is good for my mind or not. I'm perfectly happy to do that myself. As long as no real kids are hurt making such a game, I say bring it on. I'm not interested in playing something like that myself, but I like to know that I can if I want to.

Banning things that do not hurt anyone is beyond stupid. No one is forcing anyone to play it, so if you dont like it, dont play it.

I'm not talking about the game(probably a bad idea considering the thread).
I'm talking about ACTUAL kiddie porn. Photos and movies. Do you think that's acceptable as long as the kids agree?

sinclose:

tzimize:

sinclose:

John Funk:

sinclose:
Um... yeah, according to Kotaku they officially banned rape games in Japan itself, which is some news...

Not... really.

They're just not calling them rape games anymore. Unless something's changed since then.

Whatever be the case, these games are normally meant to act as 'social valves' to let people live out their fantasies virtually instead of criminally(although the recorded crimes in Japan are beyond sadistic)
What I'll never agree with, though, is kiddie porn.
Japan enforced strict laws on that(outside animation and mange) only after foreign pressure to regulate that content.

I disagree on the last bit, I am for that ANY content should be allowed as long as its properly marked. I dont want a government or any official organ to decide for me what is good for my mind or not. I'm perfectly happy to do that myself. As long as no real kids are hurt making such a game, I say bring it on. I'm not interested in playing something like that myself, but I like to know that I can if I want to.

Banning things that do not hurt anyone is beyond stupid. No one is forcing anyone to play it, so if you dont like it, dont play it.

I'm not talking about the game(probably a bad idea considering the thread).
I'm talking about ACTUAL kiddie porn. Photos and movies. Do you think that's acceptable as long as the kids agree?

Not at all. As I said as long as no actual alive beings are being harmed I'm fine with it. Even if some (twisted individuals) could argue that real kids would not be physically harmed the emotional scars would be horrific. So NO, I do not condone real kiddie porn in ANY way.

What people choose to draw, or animate or whatever is their own choice however, as well as what media to consume.

I see videogames as a medium for entertainment AND art and as such there should be no limits as long as you are not hurting anyone in the production.

Edit: Offensive material is just offensive, and anyone can just choose not to watch/play it, dont make the choice for everyone else. Offensive material is fine, but I repeat, as long as no one is harmed (in any way) in the production.

I am a strict constitutionalist, with a heavy emphasis on the First Amendment. I don't believe ANY form of speech or non-violent expression(and a rape GAME is not violent) should be banned or censored. It's all about personal responsibility folks. If everyone had it, then we wouldn't be discussing this, but because some people can't wrap their minds around the concept, we get 'scandals' like this.

Utter bullshit.

EDIT: DOH! First amendment, not second. I r a idjit.

What people don't get, is that playing video games doesn't provoke those urges (let it be rape, blowing stuff up, shoving someone's spine up their urethra, whatever), it releases those urges into the game. I've played more violent games than most people, and in real life I'm pretty much a pacifist.

It's like saying that death metal (which I also dig) lyrics causes you to go murderous. If I'm not going bat-shit bonkers, who would?

Umm...
I think I already said something like this last year when this came up, but...

Its not even for sale outside of Japan, no other country or organization has the right to tell Japan what it should and should not ban.

When this story broke ONE YEAR AGO, I remember reading a piece about it on a women's rights site. And as much as I support women's rights and well, everyone's rights for that matter... I have to disagree with the crux of their argument for banning games like Rapelay. Their argument was more or less as follows: Games like Rapelay normalize violence and will lead to increased sex crime rates.

Umm... first off... that sounds a bit like "everyone who reads porn will commit rape at some point" argument. Which turned out to be false by the way. It has been psychologically proven that most rapists aren't after the sex, they're after power.

Secondly, the game itself isn't normalizing violence. In truth, women's-rights-organization's-site-name-I-can't-remember, you are normalizing sexual violence by saying that any game is doing so. Here's why: By saying that all it takes for me, you, anybody to go out and commit rape or murder or whatever horrible crime, is one game, you are normalizing violence. By saying that, you are telling every rapist, murderer or any other kind of violent criminal, that it isn't really their fault, that every heinous act they've committed is because they were exposed to one random piece of media at some point in their lives.

So no, we shouldn't ban it. And neither should Japan, but that's their call.

To expand on your point about books:
Ann Rice back in the times of 1983-85 published a series of novels that were, for all intents and purposes, an 'Erotic' (I use the term so loosely, it's libel to fall off) retelling of the tale of Sleeping Beauty.
They were about nothing but rape. There is perhaps 3 cases of consensual sex (1 of male-to-female consensual) in the entire godforsaken series. The entire series is disgusting, and outside of just the pure rape, some more horrifying things happen (I absolutely refuse to write any of them out).
Is Ann Rice forbidden from writing? Are her books banned? No, she's one of the most popular modern novelists, over many more talented individuals.
I am not defending the content of the game or of the books, they are both repulsive to me. I'm merely pointing out that video games seem to have...well a double standard.

Take away the rape games and perhaps the people with these urges will just have to go off and rape some real women. Because that's so much better.

Have any of you ever played a Video game in anger to blow off steam? Kill a couple of thousand people in Dynasty Warriors, Curb stomp the CPU in a Beat 'em Up, Shoot a few hundred guys in an FPS because you had a bad day at work? Or your girlfriend left you? Or your mother is dieing of cancer?

Yeah... we all have, there is something therapeutic about letting go of that emotion in a healthy and safe environment where no real people can actually be harmed.

I can see the same sort of psychology that could follow something like Rapelay. Sexually frustrated guys who are getting their kicks or exploring fantasy's in a safe environment where no one can actually be harmed. Rather than just bottling those feelings up until the individual explodes and takes it all out on a real person.

For me there is no reason why it should be banned, I'm against all forms of censorship...

As long as it's only for sale in Japan. This is hard to justify, but at least Japanese society can deal with games like this.

Imagine what would happen if this game came out in the West?

1)You're going to hear a massive uproar from the media, which is bad publicity for all video games since we aren't exactly the most beloved form of entertainment to exist.

2)Communities will speak out and start spewing their own ideological crap, suddenly religions gain opinions on rape games.

3)It's a slim chance that this game will ever cause anyone to actually go out and fulfill a fantasy, but by god if it happens, even if it's only once, it will be, not a scar, but a laceration on the face of the video game industry.

So yeah, we live in a civilisation with a very...open voice..,unless you want that voice to be heard, I think it's best to put rape games back in the cupboard out of reach, not of the ignorant hands of children, but the ignorant hands of adults.

sinclose:
I'm not talking about the game(probably a bad idea considering the thread).
I'm talking about ACTUAL kiddie porn. Photos and movies. Do you think that's acceptable as long as the kids agree?

Depends. This extreme kneejerk "protect the children" thing is kinda recent. Like, the few decades. Child pornography was legal in the US, pictures and videos. Before that, girls were all but sold for dowry (slight hyperbole) to men of all ages. Arranged marriages between toddlers that were consummated as soon as both were able.

But the abuse of children isn't the subject. Its close, though. Saying that any form of pornography can turn a person into a rapist, pedophile, homosexual, whatever is wrong and insulting... to everyone. Its saying that you are just the slightest push from raping a child of the same sex.

But child pornography bans are justified by the fact a child can be coerced into doing just about anything, and any parent that would coerce his/her child into pornography only has his/her interests in mind. Rightly so, but eh.

What it comes down to generally is two words that like "Cinematic" and "Compelling", show the world the TRUE UNMITIGATED HORROR OF THESE VILE GAMES.

Those words are "Realistic" and "Interactive".

"Realistic" means to us that the pallet is mostly browns and oranges; but to Joe Q Public, it means that these games are 110% real. Realer than real.

Add in "Interactive", which to us means "you can direct some of the action", and to JQP means "YOU CAN DO ANYTHING TO ANYONE!" and you can almost see why Faux News/Daily Mail gets so much milage out of these things.

To JQP, these games must appear to be the bastard love-child of Existenz and Lawnmower Man, and we must be the Godlike Bastions of SATAN!

(Amusingly, often while they're playing one of their little online scam games)

Banning Rapeplay though? Yeah. I'll stand up to that ban.

Why? Well, the buck has to stop somewhere. And by drawing a line that says "This is where it gets a little dodgy for JQP", that means we have a set point to be drawing guidelines.

The problem with Australia's Left 4 Dead 2 ban is that it focussed on violence against authority figures as bad - which makes Punch and Judy abominable.

(Let's recap...Spousal Abuse, Violence Against Authority Figures, Police Brutality, Animal Brutality, Child Brutality...)

But...Kids have been growing up with that since the 16th century - and despite being condemned by the Political Correct brigade, you can see a LOT worse in any episode of The Simpsons. (before I even touch on Family Guy or South Park, neither of which is patrolled on satellite TV)

So, Homer can punch Chief Wiggum, Punch can't truncheon the Policeman, Rochelle can't nightstick the armoured Infected, but Sam Tyler can punch out Gene Hunt.

Not really across the board, is it?

So... Rapeplay, ban stays. That's as far as JQP is willing to go in America. For Japan, they choose their own line, maybe Brookside or The Sopranos, both of which have far more violent storylines.

Like most of these problems, most of them stem from the majority having an ignorance of the facts, swept along by the RIGHTEOUS CRUSADERS OF...whatever todays hate figure is.

Here's the deal Japan, we ban sitcoms and you ban rapelay.

JaredXE:
I am a strict constitutionalist, with a heavy emphasis on the Second Amendment. I don't believe ANY form of speech or non-violent expression(and a rape GAME is not violent) should be banned or censored. It's all about personal responsibility folks. If everyone had it, then we wouldn't be discussing this, but because some people can't wrap their minds around the concept, we get 'scandals' like this.

Utter bullshit.

I'll go one step further. Violent protest shouldn't be censored either. If the victim of a Violent protest has to use violence to protect themselves, so be it.

But we should all hear about it.

Not sure about the laws in your country, but I expect this statement to be the norm: "Child nudity should be depicted only for scientific or artistic purpouses."

Child pornogrophy and games featuing it serve neither. Simple as.

"The perception that because it's a videogame, it must be for kids. No. Wrong. Wrong."

Is there some way we can get this stapled to the heads of all the anti-game idiots out there? No? Hmm.. how about tattooed?

I really just don't understand why something like this that is so blatantly obvious seems to hard for some people to grasp. I mean, the average age of a gamer now a days is what, 28? Argh...

I'm with you 100%. I may not agree what they have to say, but as long as no one is hurt, I will defend to the death their right to say it.

Also, there is a fine line between condoning rape games, and defending them.

Elesar:
To expand on your point about books:
Ann Rice back in the times of 1983-85 published a series of novels that were, for all intents and purposes, an 'Erotic' (I use the term so loosely, it's libel to fall off) retelling of the tale of Sleeping Beauty.
They were about nothing but rape. There is perhaps 3 cases of consensual sex (1 of male-to-female consensual) in the entire godforsaken series. The entire series is disgusting, and outside of just the pure rape, some more horrifying things happen (I absolutely refuse to write any of them out).
Is Ann Rice forbidden from writing? Are her books banned? No, she's one of the most popular modern novelists, over many more talented individuals.
I am not defending the content of the game or of the books, they are both repulsive to me. I'm merely pointing out that video games seem to have...well a double standard.

This is exactly the crux of the matter. Even films get away with a lot more than games, and that's much more graphic because it's much more realistic. People think because you're "participating" with video games, that it does irreperable damage and makes you into a monster, which is of course total bullshit.

I've read one of those books too (well not all of it because it was so terrible), it was pretty hilarious to me really, how gloriously idiotic this supposed "erotic" book was. On every single page she was crying and the guys in the book found it a turn on? It's not as disgusting as it sounds, because it's way too unintentionally funny to do so, it's just ridiculous.

Hopeless Bastard:

sinclose:
I'm not talking about the game(probably a bad idea considering the thread).
I'm talking about ACTUAL kiddie porn. Photos and movies. Do you think that's acceptable as long as the kids agree?

Depends. This extreme kneejerk "protect the children" thing is kinda recent. Like, the few decades. Child pornography was legal in the US, pictures and videos. Before that, girls were all but sold for dowry (slight hyperbole) to men of all ages. Arranged marriages between toddlers that were consummated as soon as both were able.

But the abuse of children isn't the subject. Its close, though. Saying that any form of pornography can turn a person into a rapist, pedophile, homosexual, whatever is wrong and insulting... to everyone. Its saying that you are just the slightest push from raping a child of the same sex.

But child pornography bans are justified by the fact a child can be coerced into doing just about anything, and any parent that would coerce his/her child into pornography only has his/
her interests in mind. Rightly so, but eh.

There is a world of difference between Rapelay and Kiddie Porn. It isn't even an arguement. You are trying to connect the dots between something made by adults for adults and something that is harmful to a child. To a person who barely has the concept of right or wrong down. A person who isn't very smart and who can be exploited and manipulated. If the child is infact "willing" it makes no difference. Just like you can't enforce a contract you sign with a minor. If kids were like adults we wouldn't have the ESRB in the first place.

i find it ammusing that japan has all this wonderful stuff like rapelay and...panty vending machines and EXTREMELY well thought through anime porn(hentai W/E im dumbing it down) and yet whilst they aren't without crime they are definitely not in the top 20 crime infested nations in the world... Banning anything doesn't STOP people from doing it....if that was the case we would no longer have drug addicts... all banning things has ever accomplished is making people do/obtain them more secretively...

I agree completely. I think Rapelay and other games like it are disgusting. But censorship is far more disgusting then they could ever be.

Erotic games are always rape, because games can't say no.

Because censorship works.
When people are bleeped out on TV, you totally can't make out what they're actually saying, and your fragile mind is thus safe.
And raging about RapeLay has not made the game 52 thousand times more famous than it was in the first place.
I bet the numbers lie and they really didn't sell several times more copies of the game than they did before.
Yay for imposed morality!

sinclose:

John Funk:

sinclose:
Um... yeah, according to Kotaku they officially banned rape games in Japan itself, which is some news...

Not... really.

They're just not calling them rape games anymore. Unless something's changed since then.

Whatever be the case, these games are normally meant to act as 'social valves' to let people live out their fantasies virtually instead of criminally(although the recorded crimes in Japan are beyond sadistic)
What I'll never agree with, though, is kiddie porn.
Japan enforced strict laws on that(outside animation and manga) only after foreign pressure to regulate that content.

doesn't japan actually have one of the lowest counts of rape in the "1st world countries?" where us united statesians have a much higher count

One of Andy's best articles ever, because he dealt with a really complicated issue in just 2 pages. Y'know, there's a hidden moral to this story: Why in the Fiery Regions of Hell do we care what CNN thinks? I mean, I'd rather watch them than the bad joke that is Fox News, but aren't they simply proving themselves inconsequential? The game was made 4 years ago! We had these discussions then!

Oh, but now CNN's onboard, so it matters again? When do these major news networks move from "reporting" news to "Producing" it?

I'm anti-censorship and anti-lazy-high-profile-news-outlets-looking-for-a-cheap-bit-of-scandal-and-controversy, however, a line must be drawn somewhere. Also, you may say that the game exists as a result of the culture in Japan, but I'm afraid I have to say in that case that something needs sorted out in Japan. A country where women need dedicated train carriages just so they wont constantly get groped is a country that has serious problems.

Anyway, yes, I say a line should be drawn, and it should be drawn long before this game. I'm sure if it was a child porn game no one would defend it, why should this be any different.

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