Let's Not Ban RapeLay

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Dark Angel Warlord:

Altorin:

Dark Angel Warlord:

Delock:
I'm violently anti-censorship due to the fact that I believe that people should have the freedom to express themselves however they please (so long as they aren't harming others... unless those people are into that sort of thing), so it's no surprise that I'm against banning Rapelay. Sure I'm not going to go buy it, but I believe that if a person who is mature enough to handle it wants to, then they should be allowed to. Hell, if you banned everything with rape in it, the Bible would be out of store instantly (you know that story about Joseph and the multicolored coat that has been made into several movies, some of which are for kids? Guess what, his sister was raped, making those brothers of his form a plan to kill the offender and his family when they asked for her to be married to him knowing that she couldn't refuse now. Their method? Agree if his family were circumsized. They did that, and the brother rode through and killed them as they tried to recover. Yeah, and you teach kids the story that comes after that without any problems) as would several other classic pieces of literature. And then we know this wouldn't end. Next would be any games with too much violence (with a definition of too much becoming more and more broadly).

yeah but the bible is not videogames plus it was written thousands of years ago and who knows who editted what over the years and put in what they wanted in

we are talking about RAPE
would u like to know some sicko is playing a virutal game where he downloads a photo of your mom or sister or girlfriend onto the game and can virual rape her and terrorize her>?? thats sick and twisted

as long as he's not ACTUALLY raping people, I say let him do what he wants.

yeah but what if someone plays rape videogame then goes out and rapes someone and does what he does to them in the game

like example
someone is stalking jennifer
he cant have her he dont have courage to ask her out
so he photographs her and downloads her image to the game where he rapes her in the game
then he snaps one day and cant tell fantasy from reality and goes and rapes jennifer in real life

then thats his fault for being a depraved lunatic, not the games. People probably do the same thing in movies... and tell me, is pressing a button saying (perform sexual act) the same as actual rape? No it is not. This 'What if?' scenario serves no real purpose.

Besides, if this guy is stalking "Jennifer" he has problems anyway...

Not that i want to play any rape games, but theres allways the arguement off,

"Murder is worse than rape, and we can have games about mudering"

Allow it, then make it legal to pirate.

Everyone who wants it gets it, company steadily loses sales and vanishes. Everyone wins.

Because some people might like it and buy it. It's a job source after all and there are no real persons being hurt.

Dark Angel Warlord:

Altorin:

Dark Angel Warlord:

Delock:
I'm violently anti-censorship due to the fact that I believe that people should have the freedom to express themselves however they please (so long as they aren't harming others... unless those people are into that sort of thing), so it's no surprise that I'm against banning Rapelay. Sure I'm not going to go buy it, but I believe that if a person who is mature enough to handle it wants to, then they should be allowed to. Hell, if you banned everything with rape in it, the Bible would be out of store instantly (you know that story about Joseph and the multicolored coat that has been made into several movies, some of which are for kids? Guess what, his sister was raped, making those brothers of his form a plan to kill the offender and his family when they asked for her to be married to him knowing that she couldn't refuse now. Their method? Agree if his family were circumsized. They did that, and the brother rode through and killed them as they tried to recover. Yeah, and you teach kids the story that comes after that without any problems) as would several other classic pieces of literature. And then we know this wouldn't end. Next would be any games with too much violence (with a definition of too much becoming more and more broadly).

yeah but the bible is not videogames plus it was written thousands of years ago and who knows who editted what over the years and put in what they wanted in

we are talking about RAPE
would u like to know some sicko is playing a virutal game where he downloads a photo of your mom or sister or girlfriend onto the game and can virual rape her and terrorize her>?? thats sick and twisted

as long as he's not ACTUALLY raping people, I say let him do what he wants.

yeah but what if someone plays rape videogame then goes out and rapes someone and does what he does to them in the game

like example
someone is stalking jennifer
he cant have her he dont have courage to ask her out
so he photographs her and downloads her image to the game where he rapes her in the game
then he snaps one day and cant tell fantasy from reality and goes and rapes jennifer in real life

Ok, first of all, he's a stalker, already a bad thing. Two, he's hacked the game in his obsessive habit (as far as I know, the game isn't just "Put a picture on your scanner and the victims are them," it's "Chase after easily able to distinguish from reality models in the game." Still creepy but not obsessive). Three, HE SNAPPED. The game didn't cause that, his own problems brought on by his inability to let go of someone, his own self loathing at his lack of courage, and his overall insanity did. And how is him someone who is obviously insane a representation of a normal person? Unless the game is f*cking hypnotizing people to turn them into rapists, there should be no relationship between actual rape and fantasized rape other than that wierd fantasy that allow Pyramid Head to have fangirls. I believe the escapist ran an article a long time back about how most people do have rape fantasies, but would never rape/enjoy being raped.

I also want to go back to your previous comment that I never got to respond to. First of all, that passage is still in there. It would be banned. Just because something is written thousands of years ago doesn't mean that people can't be offened by it (also would like to point out that most people offended by it would be people who don't understand the culture it was created in, just like this game). Second of all, I would have a problem with a person who is obsessive enough to find a photo and do that, but then they probably would be doing the same damn thing in their head without the game, but at the same time they aren't hurting anyone.

I hate actual rapists (most of whom enjoy either the power, the feeling of breaking a person, destroying someone's life, or just taking away something from their victims) just like I hate murderers, serial killers, extortionists, and terrorists. However, I've done most of those crimes in videogames myself and I can easily say that I'm not one of them.

Lastly, why are videogames always the medium to fall under fire when it has questionable material. I know it gives you control and a visual, but I'd say books are worse where you have to imagine the entire scene, meaning you have to craft the event in question yourself using your mind.

Um, I just want to know since when can CNN demand that a foreign SOVEREIGN NATION do anything? It's one thing to call people in the United States to action in matters regarding our own country. It is quite another for a U.S. company to dictate morality to another nation, one which has one of the lowest crime rates of all the 1st world nations. Seems to me, we could take a few tips from them.

It's a really REALLY hard thing to consider. Cause on the one hand, it's a game about raping women. On the other hand... it's a game about muthafsckin raping women!!

I'm a woman. I'm friends with a girl that I suspect was raped at a younger age, and she and I have been close enough for long enough for her sensitivity towards rape has rubbed off onto me. These things culminate to being physically ill at the idea of a game about raping women. The human condition on this one really sickens me; that people skilled in game development will go so far to make it, and that there's a market for it.

Having said that, I'm against banning books. Things like "The Catcher and the Rye" and books focusing on homosexual content were once banned books simply because of their content. Later in life, the ban on these books became an outrage. But again, we're talking rape; one of the worst crimes a person can commit on another person!

I'm still not sure! Ban? aaah... But it's rape! AH! I dunno.

yeah but all it takes is one bible thumping congressman or woman or senator to scream loud enough and u will see censorship looke what games like mortal kombat did for videogames now they are rated but are they enforced yeah right ive seen 10 year olds buy violent videogames and the shop keeper dont care its all about the green backs

As much as this piece of filth sickens me, I'd rather not have it banned, because it goes against the ideals of free speech. I prefer to believe that karma will eventually take care of the developers, and in this case that's not a pretty thought...

Great article Andy. I think this whole "rapelay" issue stems from two basic principles:

#1 - Hypocrisy. "I hate A. Therefore A should be illegal.". It's stupid as hell, but it's the most common mentality. People try to ban what they don't like because they're intolerant, and... Well... On average people are idiots... Accepting that you can dislike something and still live with it isn't easy, and requires people to think, something they seem so fundamentally opposed to. I'm not saying rape should be legal mind you, but "fake" rape? Which leads us to point #2...

#2 - ...People fail to understand why things are/should be illegal in the first place. Rape and child porn aren't illegal because they're "immoral", they're illegal because they're non-consensual and in order to create them some innocent bystander has to get hurt. This is the reason raping someone is illegal. This is the reason child pornography is illegal. It's not because some people don't like it, or consider it "wrong"... It's because people get hurt...

... Here's the kicker, nobody gets hurt in a videogame. Or in an anime, book, cartoon, etc. And here's where #1 kicks in again. People start trying to ban harmless media about these things because they don't like it.

Rape is illegal because people get hurt. -> Rape is generally considered bad. -> People start banning rape-related cartoons and games because they don't like them, under the faux pretenses that real rape is illegal...

Fundamental cause of the whole shenanigan: people are incredibly stupid...

Furburt:
Has anyone here ever played Rapelay?

It's more comedy than porn. The clipping, particularly, is laughable.

dannymc18:
however, a line must be drawn somewhere.

Why? It's a game. Nobody will ever get hurt over you playing the game. Maybe barring some Jigsaw-esque scheme, but I think we can agree the game itself wouldn't be to blame there.

Why should we draw a line on what we can do if it's not hurting anyone? Would I defend a child porn game? Yes. I probably wouldn't play it myself, let alone buy it, but I can't see a single reason why it should be illegal. Cannibalizing babies? Why not? Probably not the best promotional stunt (then again...). Anything. I might not like something, but that doesn't mean it should be illegal.

As Voltaire once put it: "I might not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to death your right to say it".

The stupidity of todays "journalists" and news stations absolutely sickens me.

I say we ban these idiots instead of the game.

I'm sorry, but I really hate people like this. People who are just completely ignorant and won't listen to facts.

It really makes me want to kill someone, so I'm just going to vent by playing UT2004.

I'm against censorship. Doesn't mean I like this game. It's gross and immoral. But golly, this is like Hot Coffee incident all over. I mean really, if video games considers to be a "simulator", who would consider those heinous acts?

Playing CoD:MW2 or BF:BC2 doesn't make me or anyone a gunslinger. At all.

Captain Pooptits:
Erotic games are always rape, because games can't say no.

That is a fantastic first post.

I think there should be less debate about whether this game should be banned and more discussion about what kind of societal beliefs and individual psychology lead to the creation of said game. Banning this game won't stop people from making rape games, so it's kind of a moot point, and trying to ban it leads to people having to defend the thing. I think someone has crossed a line by making a game like that, or playing one, or having a rape fantasy at all. They have crossed the line from normal sexuality into something-has-gone-awry land. Whatever makes someone want to rape a person, it's not healthy, and psychological exploration is needed to discover the root of the issue. It should not be accepted as something that is okay. Once people start accepting these fantasies as normal, not unhealthy, then you get a society like Japan's where they have a lower rape count because the rape laws say that it doesn't count if there isn't any damage. Drugged? Too bad.

What I'm saying is, look at the bigger issue. Fix that, and no one has to argue about censorship.

coxafloppin:
Not that i want to play any rape games, but theres allways the arguement off,

"Murder is worse than rape, and we can have games about mudering"

Is it? Some people would argue otherwise.

I would prefer to die.

Dark Angel Warlord:

Altorin:

Dark Angel Warlord:
u have to be sick and twisted to get your shits and giggles out of terrorizing s virutal person

The Sims

who said i play the sims? ? ? ?

You don't know what a lot of people do when playing The Sims? FYI, a lot of people find it fun to trap their sims in a room with no doors, or put them in a swimming pool, then remove the ladder (so they can't get out), or other things that would probably constitute torture if done to a real person. And they find doing so HILARIOUS. I know people who do this, and they are most definitely not sickos.

Dark Angel Warlord:
like example
someone is stalking jennifer
he cant have her he dont have courage to ask her out
so he photographs her and downloads her image to the game where he rapes her in the game
then he snaps one day and cant tell fantasy from reality and goes and rapes jennifer in real life

So you're saying that rape-themed games are worse than rape-themed books and rape-themed movies?

yep please make my decisions for me. Please, its my god given right to never be offended by anything. Even if its a product for sale in a country on the opposite side of the world from me and that product is ONLY SOLD in that country. no i cant have that! it must be banned their too because it offends me here! I will continue to live my sheltered life because all things offensive will and must be banned even when it never affected me in the least bit to begin with. it must be known that these people are the scum of the world and we must foster more hate and misunderstanding towards them.

can anyone here who wants to ban rapelay, please tell me how this is worse than playing a game were you gun down innocents? or torture people? or rip off their heads? these things are a-ok, but rape? "naaaah, that shits too much!"

and no, i havent, and wont play it. sounds freakin boring to me.

Oh Rapelay... uhh...

I don't see what the problem is. It is not avaliable here in the US, and by now the game looks like it was made for the PS2. The only way anybody is getting it is when they download it, (from what I heard since it does not seam to have a rating and what I heard, illegally). Where are we to critize Japanese culture when we are basically allowing children to watch Hanana Montana, sitcoms and all that other garbage we call American television? We been dumbing down every good thing they sent us and censoring it like crazy (look up the changes to anime they have made, crap even Sonic X seams to be a good show in Japan). Yet the people of American are going up in arms about a game from a land much different then us that is four years old that hasn't been intentionally exported here.

This is just being dug up because people have started to pirate it and Video games still seam like a good punching bag. This game really is not notable in any way, I heard that their are many games like it in content and far worse. However, it still has made the overprotective mothers of American rise up in anger and caused another snag closer to game censorship

We gamers and our games are still a young medium and have yet to get nay kind of cultural acceptance by a wider audiance. Comic books faced this (they out right banned a lot of content from appearing in comic books), movies faced this (the earliest horror film, Frankenstien (the Edison versian) was banned) and even books when they become mass producable were looked down apon. We have to wait when we become as common part of life as film and television when games like this are accepted and celebrated before we can stop having the headaches brought about by the media like this one.

Though, with people as idiot as Michel Actison that keep deamonizing our little medium, I can't wait for that point to get here fast enough.

dannymc18:
I'm anti-censorship and anti-lazy-high-profile-news-outlets-looking-for-a-cheap-bit-of-scandal-and-controversy, however, a line must be drawn somewhere.

I have some bad new for you. When you draw a line, and then say that that line that you drew is where everyone's line gets drawn, you aren't anti-censorship. The act of drawing a line for everyone is exactly what censorship is.

I'm not a fan of these games myself, but their existence is not hurting people. It's offending some people, yes. But my existence offends some people (or at least I try to make sure it does, as it makes life more interesting) and that doesn't mean they get to ban me. They don't even get to ask me to stop being offensive. That's what freedom of speech, expression and whatnot means. It means that there will be things out there that you will find extremely offensive, and you don't get to make them go away. You just get to choose not to look.

Society as a whole does censor things, for better or worse. I'm of the opinion that it can feel free to censor things that involve actual harm being done to actual people who aren't consenting to said harm occurring to them*. Or, in the case of the oft cited child porn, aren't of an age of legal consent. However, no matter how personally distasteful I find anything else, I'm all for it for the folk who like that sort of thing. That's their choice to make, not mine.

*I left out this consenting part in a similar argument in the past and found that it's like unleashing a 5.1 on the richter scale below Mount St Helen's north slope circa 1980. Leave this part out and people start arguing that boxing should be banned (they made some good points though!).

Arkhangelsk:
It's like saying that death metal (which I also dig) lyrics causes you to go murderous. If I'm not going bat-shit bonkers, who would?

Probably people who are already bat-shit bonkers. Trouble is, these are the only people reported about in the media, and they simply can't distinguish between people who are nutcases because of games, and those who are just plain old, run of the mill, lunatics who have more than a passing interest in the medium.

Besides, it's just easier to have something tangible and suitably misunderstood to use as a scapegoat. Violent criminals? BAN VIDEOGAMES! Obese children? VIDEOGAMES DID IT! Global warming? PROBABLY SOMETHING TO DO WITH VIDEOGAMES! BAN THEM ANYWAY, JUST IN CASE!

This dilemma reminds me of: "While I may not agree with what you're saying, I'll fight to the death for your right to say it."

You don't have to support eroge, or enjoy it, or have even played one; this isn't about the game. It's about defending an adult's right to freedom of media. Of course, convincing some people that "video game" does not equal "toy" can't hurt. Once the slower part of the population finally realizes that video games are a new media rather than a childs plaything, we might not have to worry about this crap.

Not G. Ivingname:
We have to wait when we become as common part of life as film and television when games like this are accepted and celebrated before we can stop having the headaches brought about by the media like this one.

You try making a TV show where young girls get graphically assaulted physically and sexually (from what I've seen in screenshots, but there's little else to go on) with no detailed spared. At least things like Boys Don't Cry are done tastefully, not full-on rape from start to finish just to satisfy some sick, deranged people out there. Also, like I said earlier, it boils down to who will be using Rapelay and how easy it is to imitate what happens. You can play GTA but there is absolutely zero chance of you amassing a hoarde or RPGs and taking on the US Military by yourself, but as for walking down a dark street and pulling a woman into the shadows.... And again, you have to look at who the game is for - people who are the most likely to carry out the actions in the future once they realise their needs can't be fulfilled by a simple game (again, the desire to blow up an entire state isn't a realistic need), or even, more worringly, ones who have commited such acts in the past.
I have plenty of points to make, but my mind is frazzled being up this late, so apologies if the above post makes no sense.

as a actual expert on Eroge games, playing all that have come to america by Peach Princess and G collections and some that have been translated and put to sale on DLsite and a purchaser of actual non translated games all i can say is so what i have played games were women rape women or men for that matter, also all of these games have a adult only rating on the box in big letters (and if i knew how to insert pictures i would of a cover of a game), as a avid player of these games due in part that some of them have very good stories or good looking characters all i can say is lay off. if your afraid the kiddies will get them they can't with out a credit card anyway since they aren't sold in any adult store let alone regular stores.(i've looked still have yet to see one) as for ones you can download illegally guess what if you go public saying your kid downloaded it the manufacture (i think) can actually sue you for illegally getting there game first off, second haven't you heard of parental controls for your web browser. Don't damn a whole slew of games that you know nothing about just because of that weak argument, Or i will slue a very big one at you just for the hell of it like this, The Statue of David is based on a underage boy, so take it down

also Toddlers and Tiaras (not sure thats what it is but Joel on the soup makes fun of it every week so i thought i would give it a honorable mention) , do i even need to continue on how sick that show is yet were is CNN?

This has a big neon sign saying, "Please Iseryn, please come shout at me."

Censorship is, yes, bad. But I never understood the point of eroge games. Why not just go to places where all sorts of sex are legal....*its somewhere in indonesia or asia or something, the name escapes me*

Lord_Ascendant:
This has a big neon sign saying, "Please Iseryn, please come shout at me."

Censorship is, yes, bad. But I never understood the point of eroge games. Why not just go to places where all sorts of sex are legal....*its somewhere in indonesia or asia or something, the name escapes me*

yes, uproot your entire life to satiate your sick sexual urges, rather then spend 4000 yen and satiate it from your bedroom.

I'm sure the "Go to Indonesia and rape a girl" market is HUGE compared to the eroge game market

Andy Chalk:

Dark Angel Warlord:
like example
someone is stalking jennifer
he cant have her he dont have courage to ask her out
so he photographs her and downloads her image to the game where he rapes her in the game
then he snaps one day and cant tell fantasy from reality and goes and rapes jennifer in real life

So you're saying that rape-themed games are worse than rape-themed books and rape-themed movies?

movies are rated and 90% of the time they are enforced games are not

and movies are not interactive

trust me all it will take is a few bible thumping congress or sentors and u will see censorship like u wouldnt belive

Altorin:

Lord_Ascendant:
This has a big neon sign saying, "Please Iseryn, please come shout at me."

Censorship is, yes, bad. But I never understood the point of eroge games. Why not just go to places where all sorts of sex are legal....*its somewhere in indonesia or asia or something, the name escapes me*

yes, uproot your entire life to satiate your sick sexual urges, rather then spend 4000 yen and satiate it from your bedroom.

I'm sure the "Go to Indonesia and rape a girl" market is HUGE compared to the eroge game market

I'm not saying tis huge, but it happens. I dunno, I don't involve myself with things that do not interest me. I'm just not all that interested in Japan and their Video Games Industry's problems. This isn't Fahrenheit 451, it's just a news network blowing things out of proportion as usual. What can I say; birds fly, fish swim, Michael Atkinson molests sheep and News programs blow things out of proportion.

I was just surprised Iseryn didn't come here to rip Andy Chalk a new one, to be frank, since she's a very vocal opposition of these sorts of things. Its like Khell ranting about....well anything......we each have our schticks.

I don't think this sort of thing is something that should be marketed by a reputable company. I think that ban or no, the games will still exist, but allowing them to exist solely for that purpose is merely to silently condone their existence and the content.

A good rule of thumb in ethics is that if you have to try really, really hard to come up for a reason that something is ethical, it's probably not.

I WANT TO ASK THIS DONT FLAME ME OKAY
But if it was a rape a child game would there even be any arguement or discussing in favor of why this game should be allowed?

cuz im telling you rape games are the begining we will see child molesting games next

when we do we draw the line?

deth2munkies:
A good rule of thumb in ethics is that if you have to try really, really hard to come up for a reason that something is ethical, it's probably not.

we don't have to try very hard at all.

1) there is rape everything else, and noone bats an eye
2) it's a game, for the same reason we can say violent video games don't make you violent, we can say a game where you rape someone won't turn you into a rapist
3) The country that the game is ONLY available in has one of the lowest percapita rates of rape and violent crime. Even if the rape number is larger because rapes largely go unreported, that's across the board. Rape is an underreported crime in ALL areas, not just Japan.

Dark Angel Warlord:

like example
someone is stalking jennifer
he cant have her he dont have courage to ask her out
so he photographs her and downloads her image to the game where he rapes her in the game
then he snaps one day and cant tell fantasy from reality and goes and rapes jennifer in real life

Like example
Someone is pissed with John
He can't do anything about it, because he's weaker than John, who beats him regularly
So he photographs him and downloads his image to a game where he shoots him
Then he snaps someday and and can't tell fantasy from reality and goes and shoots John in real life.

We should definitely ban CoD, Battlefield, Gears of War, Halo, CS, (insert FPS here)...

You can say rapelay has a disgusting idea for a game, and I agree. But what about a game where you have sex with prostitutes and beat them up after it to get money? That's fine, right?

I don't like the idea of rape game, but its something only sold in Japan, where they have this weird culture on which this game is acceptable. If they can handle it, why should anyone try to impose their will on a sovereign country?

Dark Angel Warlord:
I WANT TO ASK THIS DONT FLAME ME OKAY
But if it was a rape a child game would there even be any arguement or discussing in favor of why this game should be allowed?

cuz im telling you rape games are the begining we will see child molesting games next

when we do we draw the line?

One: They already exist, Lolicon is pretty much this.
two: We don't need a line, human beings should be able to draw their own lines.

Maybe Rapelay could be a virtual outlet for possible rapists? Or possible an amplifier for desires they already have?

Censorship is never good but a line must be drawn somewhere.

EDIT: Oh wait, the Japanese government could have released the game and placed tracking devices on every disk to expose possible sex offenders in a hope of changing their subway-groping culture! Fine I'll keep my conspiracy theories to myself...

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