Let's Not Ban RapeLay

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blakfayt:
I'm a serious H gamer, and a lolicon, so let me put it like this.

THEY CAME FIRST for the rapists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a rapist.

THEN THEY CAME for the guro lovers,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't into guro.

THEN THEY CAME for the zoophiles,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a zoophile.

THEN THEY CAME for the sadists and masochists,
and I didn't speak up because I'm neither.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up

We must fight while we can, lest there be a Hentai-less future.

Uh we should go after rapists, because rape is a horrible crime. Perhaps you meant rape game fans.

I've played the game before. It was a fan translation, quite poor really but that's not the point. I downloaded it because quite frankly I wanted to see what the big deal was about. I won't get into detail because I'm not a reviewer but all I can say is that the only way you could influenced by this game is if you were already a rapist.

Altorin:

y1fella:

Altorin:

y1fella:

zHellas:

y1fella:
Rape is pretty much the most horrible thing one human can do to another.

So...By that logic: Rape > Holocaust

You might notice eye said pretty much. not literally and plus i said that incorrectly i meant to say "one individual can do to another"

the argument is still flawed. I'm sure an incredible number of rape victims would still rather be alive at the end of the day then dead. And claiming that just because someone you knew killed themselves because they were raped is anecdotal evidence at best.

Look lets not get into an argument about just how horrible rape is and agree on the fact rape is a horrible sick twisted act and it should not be encouraged for any reason ever at all.

then the argument becomes "does watching rape porn turn you into a rapist", and I say it does not.

To quote Penn Jillette

"You're trying to take away our porn by telling us that rapists are sensitive lovers who are simply misled by fiction?"

Although he was talking about porn in general but he also made this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ACSsUhFk7I

Sober Thal:
"We live in a mature and responsible society in which adults have the right to choose for themselves: What they watch, what they read, what they listen to, and yes, what they play. It's one of the most fundamental principles of our freedom; a bit ironically, perhaps, it's also the one that's sometimes the hardest to live with. But if we accept that videogames are no more responsible for causing deviant behavior than any other form of media - which I do - then it becomes quite obvious that a lot of people are looking at this the wrong way. I don't need to tell you why RapeLay shouldn't be banned. You need to tell me why it should."

I think it should be banned because rape is worse than a 'death' no matter how bloody, no matter what household appliance is used, no matter the context of dieing used in any other video game I can think of..... being raped is worse. Men don't get raped (ok, there have been some stories, but none that I have heard that are legit in my opinion) so maybe you as a man, don't understand what rape is like for a woman (I know I can't even begin to guess).

That being said, take the most offensive violent God of Bore, Hot Coffee, game you can think of, and explain to me how we are talking about a game instead of an outlet for trash.

Do you, as a human, know of something that is more evil than raping a woman? If you do, should that be allowed in games as long as we say people under the age of 18 can't play it??

Many may think I'm overreacting, but this sounds to me like people want to have some rape fantasy happen for them, and don't want to admit how horrible they are for allowing it.

I used to think that rape was worse than murder too, but how can you justify that? I'm sure if you gave the woman the ultimatum she wouldn't choose to die.

The biggest appeal in sex is the taboo of it, the vulgarity, indulging in peoples sexual fantasy's is completely different from enabling it. If they already have the capacity to do it than it may give them ideas, but I'm certain it wouldn't convert anyone towards it.

Finally, isn't that a bit sexist? To be completely honest, from the discussions I've had anyway, Men put a much bigger taboo on rape than Women do, in fact they seem much more comfortable discussing and even joking about it. The whole perspective of rape seems to radiate a stench of sexism to me.

Anyway to go back to my opinion on the topic. No, I don't believe rape is a laughing matter, I definitely don't think it can be justified in any situation. But this isn't rape, much the same way as porn actors running around a room doesn't count as rape to me.

You would think that rape is so wrong to put in a video game..well yeah it is , but think about all the other wrong stuff we're doing every single day , killing hundreds and thousands.

Kurokami:

Sober Thal:
"We live in a mature and responsible society in which adults have the right to choose for themselves: What they watch, what they read, what they listen to, and yes, what they play. It's one of the most fundamental principles of our freedom; a bit ironically, perhaps, it's also the one that's sometimes the hardest to live with. But if we accept that videogames are no more responsible for causing deviant behavior than any other form of media - which I do - then it becomes quite obvious that a lot of people are looking at this the wrong way. I don't need to tell you why RapeLay shouldn't be banned. You need to tell me why it should."

I think it should be banned because rape is worse than a 'death' no matter how bloody, no matter what household appliance is used, no matter the context of dieing used in any other video game I can think of..... being raped is worse. Men don't get raped (ok, there have been some stories, but none that I have heard that are legit in my opinion) so maybe you as a man, don't understand what rape is like for a woman (I know I can't even begin to guess).

That being said, take the most offensive violent God of Bore, Hot Coffee, game you can think of, and explain to me how we are talking about a game instead of an outlet for trash.

Do you, as a human, know of something that is more evil than raping a woman? If you do, should that be allowed in games as long as we say people under the age of 18 can't play it??

Many may think I'm overreacting, but this sounds to me like people want to have some rape fantasy happen for them, and don't want to admit how horrible they are for allowing it.

I used to think that rape was worse than murder too, but how can you justify that? I'm sure if you gave the woman the ultimatum she wouldn't choose to die.

The biggest appeal in sex is the taboo of it, the vulgarity, indulging in peoples sexual fantasy's is completely different from enabling it. If they already have the capacity to do it than it may give them ideas, but I'm certain it wouldn't convert anyone towards it.

Finally, isn't that a bit sexist? To be completely honest, from the discussions I've had anyway, Men put a much bigger taboo on rape than Women do, in fact they seem much more comfortable discussing and even joking about it. The whole perspective of rape seems to radiate a stench of sexism to me.

Anyway to go back to my opinion on the topic. No, I don't believe rape is a laughing matter, I definitely don't think it can be justified in any situation. But this isn't rape, much the same way as porn actors running around a room doesn't count as rape to me.

I don't think men put a bigger taboo on rape then women do, I knew girls that killed themselves after being raped, and so I get a bit crazy when this subject comes up. (But to end ones life is a more serious matter than my texting on a forum) For that reason alone, I was out of line and quick to spout dumb words, I guess.

I was wrong with my original post. After thinking it over, and having someone state simple ideas that counter what I said originally, (that should be common knowledge) I realized that it's wrong to try to ban anything fictitious, as it's a (story/game) just because it may bother someone.

Books shouldn't be banned, even if they are stories about rape, or human instrumentality.

But as to what you said tho:

Don't assume one would choose rape over death.
People who joke about rape aren't cool or 'non-sexist'.

That being said, this is a topic that I shouldn't post about, it makes me sound like an ass I'm sure. I take peoples' text seriously, and think the worst about them if they try to defend media that allows you to rape women in an interactive setting digitally.

Father Time:

blakfayt:
I'm a serious H gamer, and a lolicon, so let me put it like this.

THEY CAME FIRST for the rapists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a rapist.

THEN THEY CAME for the guro lovers,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't into guro.

THEN THEY CAME for the zoophiles,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a zoophile.

THEN THEY CAME for the sadists and masochists,
and I didn't speak up because I'm neither.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up

We must fight while we can, lest there be a Hentai-less future.

Uh we should go after rapists, because rape is a horrible crime. Perhaps you meant rape game fans.

Yeah, but if you've read the poem you'd notice that it would fuck that whole line up, google THEY CAME FIRST and you'll get a very interesting poem on wikipedia that was written a long time ago, I felt that with a few minor tweaks it would fit well here. It also wouldn't work cause I'm a fan of rape hentai, no one was harmed in the making, so who gives a shit? Maybe we can ween all the rapists and molesters onto hentai and have a safer world. Compared to Japan we have like five times more rapes and child assaults than they do, maybe the forbidden fruit is a bit too tempting, huh?

Now the statement that videogames aren't more demonizing than any other form of media doesn't seem quite right to me. Sure, if you can show to studies on the topic that shows this conclusion, I'll probably believe it, but I believe that the inter-active aspects of video games make them different from other media. Ideally, a video game will give you the idea that YOU save the world and YOU lead the team to the world cup, or that YOU are the murderer and YOU are the rapist. Movies and books just don't do that.

incal11:

reciprocal:
There just isn't sufficient statistical evidence to show that these items have a negative impact on the Japanese people. At worst it has a neutral effect. There are so many other factors involved that may have a dramatic effect but I believe treating Rapelay as a scapegoat is delusional and almost criminal as it prevents the more pertinent factors to be addressed.

It's true we'd have to see Japan banning Hentai and wait to see how it's rape rates evolve to conclude on the cultural factors ; but it remains that there is no evidence of pornography having a negative impact on society at all.
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forumy/2006/06/rape-porn-and-criminality-political.php
Studies like this are real statistical evidence of this ; and that's what this is all about, showing how senseless censorship is.

Rapelay became sort of like a simbol by accident, it could have been some other game like it, It's after CNN made a scandal out of it that literally hundreds of american lawyers started harrassing japanese publishers. Then japanese pro-censorship organisations started receiving large amounts of money from american associations.

That said,I'd like to know what are the more pertinent factors you're thinking of.

I honestly wish I could give you an unbiased answer but I really do not have enough research or experience to give an analysis on what are the leading causes of rape. In my opinion, though, the following may have a higher chance of being causes:
1) Increased usage of drugs, which may lead to date-rape
2) Social taboo on pornography and masturbation coupled with poor sex education. Natural urges are often treated as shameful and are repressed instead of given a safe outlet. I don't want to take a cheap shot but lets look at the recent Catholic priest scandal.
3) Ease at which perpetrators can get away with the crime. This could be 'bringing the family shame', poor public facilities (e.g. dark and no security camera), poor justice system, corruption, etc.
4) Cultural disparity. There was a very controversial rape case a while ago in Australia where a group of boys gang raped a girl because they thought she deserved it and needed to be taught a lesson. As far as I am aware, they tried to blame her for the way she dressed and communicated with them. I don't think Rapelay was out at that time or that the boys had access to loli manga.

All countries have these problems. Most of them are extremely difficult things to tackle but taking cheap shots at a very minor and localised phenomenon such as Japan's manga and anime industry or the games industry in general is extremely disappointing (not surprising).

One more thing to ponder: It is very likely that the Rapelay issue will fade away quickly in America. However Australia's media recently used Rapelay in a very biased poll to push the internet censorship agenda. I think it's worth considering how much freedom we will be giving up if this fear-mongering succeeds.

Did this just feel like him going on about random stuff just to fill those two pages because he didn't actually have anything to say?

Nice read but not much content, maybe I should read it again...

WaderiAAA:
Now the statement that videogames aren't more demonizing than any other form of media doesn't seem quite right to me. Sure, if you can show to studies on the topic that shows this conclusion, I'll probably believe it, but I believe that the inter-active aspects of video games make them different from other media. Ideally, a video game will give you the idea that YOU save the world and YOU lead the team to the world cup, or that YOU are the murderer and YOU are the rapist. Movies and books just don't do that.

So you're suggesting we should ban all videogames that require players to take part in antisocial in-game behaviour?

wow I am undecided on this subject both sides have good arguments
on one side it's a rape game on the other hand freedom of speech on the other hand it's a rape game but on the other hand censorship is wrong

know what I think I am anti-banning of rapelay just because censorship is wrong we shouldn't be needing the government telling us what not to play it should be up to personal preference and parent's decision (if a parent is even retarded enough to get this game for their kid I mean the object of the game is in the title) whether to get this game for their

plus it's in japan only and we shouldn't be telling japan what to do it's their country they can have any games no matter how messed it is to us

People who want to ban games like that take the view that games are reinforcement training tools, that playing a game which depicts violence or rape inherently makes the player want to go out and commit violence or rape in the real world as well. (Note that this is the exact same viewpoint that the "think of the children! oh noes, ban the violent games!" crowd take.)

Other people take the view that games are escapism, that playing a game which depicts violence or rape actually makes the player less likely to do so in the real world (since they're "getting their fix" from the game).

And the final group take the view that games are pure fantasy and have no bearing on the real world at all, and that just because someone enjoys murder in a game doesn't mean they have any inclination to do so in reality.

Personally, I fall somewhere between the last two groups. I play a lot of games involving shooting and otherwise killing people, and I have never felt the urge to do so in reality (quite the opposite). So I don't see how this would be any different for a rape game.

And on the topic of freedom of speech: like the man said, "if you don't believe in free speech for your enemies, then you don't believe in free speech at all."

Jaredin:
It is a problem...you ban one, and then, another and another.

Soon, only games we will be able to play will contain fluffy clouds and good will towards everyne..

Fahrenheit 451 reference?

reciprocal:
All countries have these problems. Most of them are extremely difficult things to tackle but taking cheap shots at a very minor and localised phenomenon such as Japan's manga and anime industry or the games industry in general is extremely disappointing (not surprising).

It's not taking cheap shot, nor is it a localized issue, hentai is becoming illegal in quite a lot of developped countries ; and it definitely is a dangerous path against freedom of expression the world is taking.
I repeat, it has been proven that legal access to pornography of all kind has a good effect on society overall.

The other causes you talk about are important too but they are actual causes already taken care of by the right associations (more or less), not a media scapegoat .

I don't see why anybody is concerned about kids getting this. No matter how irresponsible a parent is, I highly doubt they're going to purchase a game with the word "Rape" in the title for their child. Plus to order it on amazon you would need a credit/debit card, so to get it the kid would have to take their parent's credit card, buy the game, get to the package before the parent did, and play it in windows where neither one of their parents weren't home. This is all on the assumption that a kid not only knows about but WANTS this game.

Since it's gotten so much attention, I'm curious now as to what this game's actually like. Kind of hard to misconstrue a game with a title like "rapelay," but generally when a videogame is being demonized the degree to how graphic it is increases a lot in the prosecutor's synopsis.

I have to agree.

While I find the acts portrayed in the games disgusting, banning offensive material is a slippery slope.

If we start censoring material concerning rape, then that can pave the way for any special interest group to erase anything they find obscene.

Today its rape, but tomorrow the anti-smoking lobbies could demand that mediums that glorify cigarettes be banned, or Christan groups could demand that anything portraying homosexuality be banned.

Where does it stop?

It's boils down to censorship is wrong. Period. The age rating safeguard is there for a reason. A video I saw about RapeLay (I think it was on here :. ) with parents in the street going "wah what if my kid played this?" Obviously it won't because the game wouldn't be available to the under-18 market. Now we all know over-18 games get into the hands of 8 year olds but that's the responsibility of the seller/parent. In an ideal world freedom of speech and all that jazz should be unconstrained. Banning this is pointless because what good will it do? The rape crisis groups speaking out about it "it's not a light issue... there are many consequences..." all that shit, ya okay but it's a video game. Just like all the games with murder and violence and war, they don't make people kill. Just like Rapelay won't make people rape.

Father Time:

Altorin:

y1fella:

Altorin:

y1fella:

zHellas:

y1fella:
Rape is pretty much the most horrible thing one human can do to another.

So...By that logic: Rape > Holocaust

You might notice eye said pretty much. not literally and plus i said that incorrectly i meant to say "one individual can do to another"

the argument is still flawed. I'm sure an incredible number of rape victims would still rather be alive at the end of the day then dead. And claiming that just because someone you knew killed themselves because they were raped is anecdotal evidence at best.

Look lets not get into an argument about just how horrible rape is and agree on the fact rape is a horrible sick twisted act and it should not be encouraged for any reason ever at all.

then the argument becomes "does watching rape porn turn you into a rapist", and I say it does not.

To quote Penn Jillette

"You're trying to take away our porn by telling us that rapists are sensitive lovers who are simply misled by fiction?"

Although he was talking about porn in general but he also made this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ACSsUhFk7I

can't watch it in canada, but I think i saw it before it was removed from my country.

Like a year ago.

And if I remember correctly, he was actually answering a question about RapeLay itself

THIS IS OLD NEWS CNN GOD.

"current" events my ass.

Altorin:

Father Time:

Altorin:

y1fella:

Altorin:

y1fella:

zHellas:

y1fella:
Rape is pretty much the most horrible thing one human can do to another.

So...By that logic: Rape > Holocaust

You might notice eye said pretty much. not literally and plus i said that incorrectly i meant to say "one individual can do to another"

the argument is still flawed. I'm sure an incredible number of rape victims would still rather be alive at the end of the day then dead. And claiming that just because someone you knew killed themselves because they were raped is anecdotal evidence at best.

Look lets not get into an argument about just how horrible rape is and agree on the fact rape is a horrible sick twisted act and it should not be encouraged for any reason ever at all.

then the argument becomes "does watching rape porn turn you into a rapist", and I say it does not.

To quote Penn Jillette

"You're trying to take away our porn by telling us that rapists are sensitive lovers who are simply misled by fiction?"

Although he was talking about porn in general but he also made this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ACSsUhFk7I

can't watch it in canada, but I think i saw it before it was removed from my country.

Like a year ago.

And if I remember correctly, he was actually answering a question about RapeLay itself

THIS IS OLD NEWS CNN GOD.

"current" events my ass.

He was, and Rapelay was irrelevant when the media first highlighted it around a year ago and it's certainly old news now.

Show of hands who here would like to ban the movie Pulp Fiction?

There's a movie that features rape and quite graphically.

I know this has been said before many times but here it goes...

I've seen this game, and a few of the other games by the same company "Illusion". They are all far too anime/cartoonish to take seriously. Not to mention that the cutscenes are ridiculously poor and the stories are laughable. I find nothing terribly offensive about them.

On the other hand, there are legal games that I find very offensive. Fallout 3, Bioshock, Left 4 Dead 2, etc. I'm not going to list them all, but western society clearly doesn't mind extremely graphic depictions of violence. i.e. Cutting people in half with a chainsaw is OK... just as long as their genitals aren't exposed in the process.

Guys, CNN is doing it as a publicity stunt, and the views on their page.

I should say that they are becoming the new Fox News. But I'm trying not to bash anyone. ><

To be honest, I'm really upset right now. I had never heard of this game. I think it's incredibly wrong and taken a step too far.

I'm not against games with sex scenes in them and whatever, you do what you want and I'll do what I want. And we should not tell Japan what to do, we're not their Mom.

But this is different. This is rape. Rape is not a joke nor should be made to be taken lightly. This is just a simulation to exercise dominance.

And I know games don't "make" people into things but I feel like it might desensitize. I am anti-censorship unless it hurts people. And I feel like this could hurt people who have been raped. Making something so horrific into almost a joke.

I'm sorry, but I can't support this game.

EDIT: I feel rather prudish about this statement but it's how I feel. I do find it ironic though that people can be horribly mutilated in games and those games can pass. I just think this is different. But then again, what makes it different than Manhunt?

Oh what horrible conflicting feelings.

Call me odd... but Yea, Graphics are old and dated nothing good, was only designed for the Japanese market for use in Japan and wasn't intended for outside of Japan till CNN Poked its nose in the first time and there at it again? Urgh..

To be fairly honest what's the point in banning it:

* It will just get more popular because of that
* Take that one out and another will pop up
* seems to tie into the Japanese culture anyway with there love sims n sex sims...

[Edit] To help clarify my point of view.

I Do agree its a terrible ordeal for anyone to go through (Words cant describe it) for ether sex (Yes men do get raped too but its not as reported) but on the other side its also a sexual kink for some people too, to be fair I don't think the game was made to promote the act in the negative fashion that maybe CNN would want you to believe and was made for the latter

blah blah blah blah rapelay shouldn't be banned blah blah blah blah
That's my opinion. Oh, and feel free to replace any blah with a well thought out and logical argument.

dannymc18:
I'm anti-censorship and anti-lazy-high-profile-news-outlets-looking-for-a-cheap-bit-of-scandal-and-controversy, however, a line must be drawn somewhere.

Then you are not anti-censorship.

dannymc18:
I'm anti-censorship and anti-lazy-high-profile-news-outlets-looking-for-a-cheap-bit-of-scandal-and-controversy, however, a line must be drawn somewhere.

Then you are not anti-censorship.

SecondmateFlint:
To be honest, I'm really upset right now. I had never heard of this game. I think it's incredibly wrong and taken a step too far.

....

I'm sorry, but I can't support this game.

EDIT: I feel rather prudish about this statement but it's how I feel. I do find it ironic though that people can be horribly mutilated in games and those games can pass. I just think this is different. But then again, what makes it different than Manhunt?

Oh what horrible conflicting feelings.

Don't feel prudish, I think you are dead right.
I actually cannot believe the amount of people on this forum who believe that this should not be censored.

Now don't get me wrong; I play plenty of violent video games, watch lots of gross movies and read a lot of "horrible" stuff. Watched plenty of porn.And I'm not here saying that this particular game will turn people into rapists and all that kind of pop-psychology.

But ask yourself; what kind of person wants to actually play a game like this? Are you seriously going to be happy to have them living next door? Arguing that it should be allowed to exist, and that people should be allowed to consume it, is the same argument that would allow a child porn simulator to be legal.
Would you put up with a neighbour who called around every evening to explain why all Jews should be burned alive? Would you actually, honestly just shrug your shoulders and say "oh well, he has a right to free speech"?

Suppose the game was called "nigger lyncher" or "homo basher" and had content to match the title - would you all be defending it then?

Would Mr. Chalk have written an article entitled "Let's not ban Baby in a Microwave Simulator"?
He writes
"We live in a mature and responsible society in which adults have the right to choose for themselves: What they watch, what they read, what they listen to, and yes, what they play. It's one of the most fundamental principles of our freedom;"

which is simply not true. If you really believe that you live in a "mature and responsible" society, why is there so much crime in your cities?

Please let's leave aside all these naieve notions that Censorship is always bad or free speech is a moral right that trumps all other rights, because, it doesn't.
Remember; you only have this "right" because someone long dead put it in your constitution, or whatever equivalent you have in your corner of the world.
Do you really believe they put it in there so that sick, twisted ideas could be freely propagated throughout society? Every declaration of the right to the freedom of speech/expression that I know of, in any country, makes it very clear that this so-called "freedom" is limited by an "offence principal" which is there to protect it's society by refusing this freedom to ideas that offend the majority of said society.

Now you can claim a moral high-ground insead of a legal one, and insist that you have a moral right to read, write, watch, play, or otherwise express or consume anything you want, but that begs the question - at what point does the morality of that stance contradict the morality of the content you are defending?

This is my take on this issue
I am against the ban and will try to explain why, but before that I'm against how people make an opinion or decision as definite as ban something after just getting to know that there is a video game about rape.

It is the same case when news channels go against violent video games. They hear that there is a video game that has killing or blood, and based on that bit on information they go on to make their opinions about it about how that must warp people's minds and promote violence or desensitize the poor little kids, and they usually try to provide some research that no one knows for sure how it was made or how valid it truly is on the big picture of things.

So the first thing that should be done before making or promoting the decision of "That should be banned" is taking the time to think about the effects of such media (if the argument is that the game really makes people more likely to kill or rape, or people enjoy doing it in the game as if it were the real thing), playing or finding a way to go through the game (if I were to say, such movie or book should be banned, my opinion would never be taken seriously if I don't watch it or read it first, and that takes more than the 2 seconds some people took to say that rapelay should be banned), and also have some understanding of the material ( I like the article, and how the writer says at the beginning that 'I have no idea how I got dragged into this. I'm no expert on eroge games, Japanese culture, rape, censorship or anything else related to the game').

Where I'm going with this is like lets think for example about how news channels say shooting people in GTA could have an effect in real life, and they talk about research that has been made. If I'm really interested in that issue, I would also bring to the case that scene in GTA or in Heavy Rain in which you decide whether to kill or not a character that is pleading for his life, in those cases my perception of what was happening was completely different than before, I spared their life but then had no problem shooting more faceless drones that came up afterwards. There are games like InFamous in which I played it through it once as a hero (being as considerate to others, specially innocent characters), and once as a villain (being a complete bastard to everyone), and I did all that in one same game. This shows me that even inside of the world of video games, I treat different characters in different ways, and my perception of them changes, so I would think that my brain would react differently with a real person that it does with a video game character as well. So I would put all that info into my research in order to come up with a more complete result, problem is, you need to know more about video games than what tv journalist do in order to come up with that.

Knowing about video games is just half the issue before making an opinion about this though, the other half is going into how violence or in this case sex or rape is portrayed or at what kind of audience it is aimed for. I cannot go as in deep about it because I haven't played Rapelay or know the psychology behind people's sexual fantasies, but I know that there are consenting adults out there that buy handcuffs and blind folds and all sorts of sexual related stuff to enhance their experience and that is legal as far as I know as long as it is consenting, safe, and part of a game. The scenarios in which some people play might be not much different that representing a rape scene, but acted and made belief. They do it in the privacy of their homes (as in the game) and don't go around doing it to unsuspecting victims, and would probably be offended if someone would insinuate that. Some people would see those activities as weird or crazy, but others would find it natural and that it doesn't harm anyone so there is no need to complain.

So is it weird and crazy to have a game like this? many think so and I could too, but not everyone. Is it different to play a fantasy with a fictional, actress like character (hence sort of consenting because the fictional character was programmed for whats happening in the game) than those who play with real people who like the same?

I just think that those issues should be addressed, and understood, before making an opinion about it, and saying if the game is good or bad and what the effects will be. I'm not into rubber suits for sex so what I do is not look for them and buy them or wear them, instead of saying they should be banned because I think is weird and kids all over the world will try them and turn them into rapists. So I cannot be pro banning Rapelay from what I know about it and unless there is some well though, thorough explanation about it as a game and a sexual device. Oh, and some knowledge about censorship would be good too.

(As for the poster above I think that the sexual fantasy aspect make this different than a "nigger lyncher" or "homo basher" game, maybe even above a fighting game or a shooting one, but again we wouldn't know unless someone really goes into the psychology of it).

I agree that most censorship is stupid. But I do think this game should be banned.

Videogames do not "corrupt" you like many think. Someone who plays this game isn't going to become a rapist. Someone who plays GTA IV isn't going to become a crazed murderer. But that's not the point. Videogames are, at their heart, entertainment. Why should this subject matter be entertaining?

Yes, we all play violent games, sometimes because we want to escape into a fantasy world where we can do whatever we want. Sometimes because we're angry, and want to blow off steam. So, blow something up in GTA IV. Revv up God of War and mutilate some beasties. Who blows off steam by simulating raping women? Who's fantasy world is that? Everyone wants to bash in heads sometimes; I don't want to meet the men who want to escape in RapeLay.

Someone here mentioned that Women's Rights groups have stated that games like this "normalize" violence against women. That same person responded with the "they won't become rapists" argument. That's not what they're talking about. They don't mean it'll become everyday practice to go around raping because it was in a game. They mean that the players will cease to see it for how horrible it is in real life. NOT that they wouldn't be horrified by it if it happened to a woman they know, but that they wouldn't make the connection between the two. A few commenters have posted that they played this with friends "just for laughs." The "just for laughs" is what the women's rights groups are worried about.

This is a real problem that happens to real people, men and women. Again, why should this be entertaining?

For the record, I think the books and movies that glorify rape should be banned as well. Yes, there is a double-standard for gaming. That double-standard is partially because games are interactive; it's one thing to watch a porno about rape, and another to act it out. But for the most part that double-standard is unfair. But I don't think the answer should be "we can be as depraved and offensive as everyone else." I think the rules about movies and books should just become stricter.

I feel rather conflicted on this issue - yes, games like RapeLay are intended for adults, and thus adults should have the right to choose whether or not they play such a game. Then again, what the game is portraying for the sake of entertainment, to me, is morally repulsive. I'm all for free speech, but who is going to find this garbage "entertaining"? As someone above me mentioned, I'd rather not meet someone who likes to escape into a world where they rape women. There's something wrong about that - then again, I suppose one could argue that anybody who enjoys running people over with cars in GTA is no better - and to that I would say, "fuck, you're kind of right, I suppose".

I suppose that games like GTA have just been around for so long that we simply accept it for what it is - a game, and nothing more. These people aren't really dying in GTA, and the women in RapeLay aren't actually getting raped. Still, it's just my personal opinion that the simulation of women being raped for the sake of entertainment just seems so fundamentally wrong, that I can't help but criticise this game for doing such a thing, and thus I feel it has no place being sold in western society. If they want to sell it in Japan, that's completely fine. There are distinct cultural differences between North America and Japan, and I feel that those should be acknowledged and respected when considering whether or not this game be banned.

Censorship is bad, therefore I'm opposed, it's Miller time. But then I made the mistake of thinking about it for a minute and it occurred to me that I was being asked to speak out against a ban on a game that was entirely about raping women.

How the hell am I supposed to oppose that?
---------------------------------------------------
Um....demand that Japan be equal & make games where women rape men? (Which would actually sell with highschool girls & old cougars).

Oh well, banning the game would only backfire. Negative publicity increases sales & if it's banned, people will pirate it. & since it was never available outside Japan, people will download it off of torrents for pure curiosity because items of controvery are secret indugendces just waiting to be picked up & anything taboo gets it's own cult following.

Here's another point, while I'm here: In another article by the same guy about the same game, he said that we shouldn't worry about games like this, because no gamer is going to be anything but repulsed by it. I wish I could hold every gamer to that standard of decency, but it simply isn't true. There are horrible, perverse gamers in the Western world, and you can meet them in any MMORPG.

The whole point is not whether we should ban or apply censorship, the point is the awfully pathetic game shouldn't have been made in the first place. And for people who play it for kicks or laughs, or just to find out and see what the game is like, perhaps they should take those reasons and tell that to real rape victims.

"oh I played the game for laughs!"
When ever penny spent on it, every minute wasted on it producing it was like violating a rape victim all over again.

Maybe a game where you are a pedophile and the point is to lure children to your house, and you get super special upgrades for group sessions. maybe your a buyer for a sex slave ring and sell boys and girls men and women all over the world, maybe next your a general for a group of child soliders in the Congo.

my point is what come next to satisfy people desire for "escapism"

I don't believe in censorship its wrong, free thought is good, crossing the line of integrity and decency and considererations for other who have suffered at the hands of people who are scum, why would anyone want to be scum, even for pretend

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