Virtual Property Can Help You Kill Your Wife

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Hehe, I can just imagine the conversation between the man and the assassin.

Man: I'll give you my +120 Str Excalibur Sword with a x2.2 crit rune on it to kill my wife.
Hitman: mmm, throw in that Lucifer's Helm of Cloaking to sweeten the pot.
Man: Deal

I'm sorry, but what was squinting and pinching the bridge of my nose supposed to do? I might just be stupid, but I don't understand what you were getting at.

Obviously, the solution is to make it so you have to provide legal information when making these transaction style make, and make penalties for people who don't provide the truth. Then make sure every transaction leaves behind a trail in game. Thus it would leave a proper digital trail.

Of course, to perfect such a system is almost impossible, so I get what they mean.

Five points for the Hitman reference. Bravo!

Pendragon9:
Obviously, the solution is to make it so you have to provide legal information when making these transaction style make, and make penalties for people who don't provide the truth. Then make sure every transaction leaves behind a trail in game. Thus it would leave a proper digital trail.

And it makes buying a virtual thing more complicated than buying a real thing. Thus will never be implemented.

I wish I would have gone to see that presentation, I went to Augmented Reality presentation instead, but most of it was stuff I already knew. The "Video Game Lawsuits - What's New?" Panel this morning was my favorite presentation at the conference.

Caiti Voltaire:

Susan Arendt:

Well, keep in mind, this scenario depends on the ability to get real-world money back out of the game. One hopes nobody's going to off your wife in return for an epic mount alone.

I've seen the kind of people who play WoW. It wouldn't surprise me in many cases, it seems to breed this absolutely obsessive mindset that honestly kind of scares me.

This is true, but you have to figure that people who know how to kill other people on a professional level (IE: knowing how not to get caught, leaving behind little/no evidence, when/where, etc), and people who get WAY too obsessed with MMOs has very very little over-lap between the two groups. I don't doubt that there's some hitman out there who makes sure to have all his... "work" done by 6pm so he can make his raid, but there can't be more than a few.

Thats. . .as long as there has been laws, there have been those seeking to break/find loopholes in laws. Take more realistically someone with a lvl 80 Tauern warrior. That baby will sell for alot on Ebay (guessing) maybe enough for a hit? hand the TW over to the ninja err...the hitman who makes the money off Ebay and does his or her job. *BUMP*

This will be a "Law & Order" episode in like a year.

Susan Arendt:

Booze Zombie:
Hmm... good points.

Don't know if anyone wants to buy anything they wouldn't own in the end, it'd be like renting a flat but not getting a flat, but instead getting a box that disintergrates after a month.

Anyone who has ever paid real-world money for a virtual item has bought something they don't actually own. They are, for all intents and purposes, renting it.

What about Virtual stuff that's given to you?, I was giving a Pony badge by Themis Media (not sure if you've heard of them) and I consider it mine. So when I stop using this site then I don't get to take my Pony with me?.

Totenkopf:
So... the lesson is:

Don't give people their money back if they sell ingame items for which they paid real cash, or they will hire assassins with that ingame items? Did I get this right?

That was an example. Basically if you can freely convert between ingame and real life money you can use ingame transactions to hide money transfers for illegal purposes (money laundering). There are extremely strict laws about that stuff for companies like PayPal and I'd argue that an MMO with an official cash-out function should be subject to the same laws.

KDR_11k:

Totenkopf:
So... the lesson is:

Don't give people their money back if they sell ingame items for which they paid real cash, or they will hire assassins with that ingame items? Did I get this right?

That was an example. Basically if you can freely convert between ingame and real life money you can use ingame transactions to hide money transfers for illegal purposes (money laundering). There are extremely strict laws about that stuff for companies like PayPal and I'd argue that an MMO with an official cash-out function should be subject to the same laws.

The very real problem i see is when a games items become worth real life money becuase they've transcended a barrier when in the games designers plans they are not worth money. Take for example highlevel WoW acconts, your not techcically sipposed to sell them but people do (i know someone who set up a buisness pretty much on that design, of course totally against the terms of use and i guess you can get sued). Could a man pay a hit-man in Lvl 80 Knight Elf hunters? Druids? Shamans?!!

How about the obvious exampe of WoW gold. it becomes apparent now why blizzard shat themselves over the huge market that was created via gold farming. It was huge buisness.

It's a kind of surreal though to think that a harmless flash MMO could potentially be a vey powerfull money laudering tool but as digital items gain more and more real life worth then i guess we will have to takle these issues more and more.

Caiti Voltaire:

Susan Arendt:

Well, keep in mind, this scenario depends on the ability to get real-world money back out of the game. One hopes nobody's going to off your wife in return for an epic mount alone.

I've seen the kind of people who play WoW. It wouldn't surprise me in many cases, it seems to breed this absolutely obsessive mindset that honestly kind of scares me.

Guys guys it can be much worse, it can be using Farmville. (remember the kid who spent 1400 dollars on items?!, that can pay a couple of hitmen in India)

So my point is for those also saying if the sums involved could cover a hitman, its probably no coincidence that this lawyer showed up talking about this. Recently came to attention many immigrants in north America and western Europe countries are paying for dirty jobs done back in their home countries for ridiculously small amounts of money (that in their respective home countries can actually be small fortunes) and the crimes can easily go unsolved as their criminal system is very faulty. Linking everything together its obviously a plausible scenario. One might even think this lawyer probably already came across suspicion of something happening like this and is blowing the whistle.

HT_Black:
I'm sorry, but what was squinting and pinching the bridge of my nose supposed to do? I might just be stupid, but I don't understand what you were getting at.

It's just a gesture people do when they're vexed...consider it a kind of facepalm.

Personally I would only hire a guy who lives in an apartment with a plant and has a strange relationship with a very young girl...

Caiti Voltaire:

Susan Arendt:

Well, keep in mind, this scenario depends on the ability to get real-world money back out of the game. One hopes nobody's going to off your wife in return for an epic mount alone.

I've seen the kind of people who play WoW. It wouldn't surprise me in many cases, it seems to breed this absolutely obsessive mindset that honestly kind of scares me.

There's something like 12 million players. My brother played, and he's a pot-smoking gangster wannabe. I played, and I have a full-time job, respect women, and have more female friends than male. My uncle played, and he is in a happy marriage, has 2 kids, and is an instructor in the Australian Army. Many of my friends have played, and they're all going on to success.

12 million players... Think about that. We're not all fat mouth-breathers. My old guild master was a great guy. Our most committed player was a Canadian teaching English in China, and he was incredibly smart. He also trained to be a film actor, but changed his profession.

We aren't all losers. In fact, all of the people I know who have played aren't.

Scrumpmonkey:

KDR_11k:

Totenkopf:
So... the lesson is:

Don't give people their money back if they sell ingame items for which they paid real cash, or they will hire assassins with that ingame items? Did I get this right?

That was an example. Basically if you can freely convert between ingame and real life money you can use ingame transactions to hide money transfers for illegal purposes (money laundering). There are extremely strict laws about that stuff for companies like PayPal and I'd argue that an MMO with an official cash-out function should be subject to the same laws.

The very real problem i see is when a games items become worth real life money becuase they've transcended a barrier when in the games designers plans they are not worth money. Take for example highlevel WoW acconts, your not techcically sipposed to sell them but people do (i know someone who set up a buisness pretty much on that design, of course totally against the terms of use and i guess you can get sued). Could a man pay a hit-man in Lvl 80 Knight Elf hunters? Druids? Shamans?!!

How about the obvious exampe of WoW gold. it becomes apparent now why blizzard shat themselves over the huge market that was created via gold farming. It was huge buisness.

It's a kind of surreal though to think that a harmless flash MMO could potentially be a vey powerfull money laudering tool but as digital items gain more and more real life worth then i guess we will have to takle these issues more and more.

Don't be stupid. No-one wants to pay for a Shaman.

Angerwing:

Scrumpmonkey:

KDR_11k:

Totenkopf:
So... the lesson is:

Don't give people their money back if they sell ingame items for which they paid real cash, or they will hire assassins with that ingame items? Did I get this right?

That was an example. Basically if you can freely convert between ingame and real life money you can use ingame transactions to hide money transfers for illegal purposes (money laundering). There are extremely strict laws about that stuff for companies like PayPal and I'd argue that an MMO with an official cash-out function should be subject to the same laws.

The very real problem i see is when a games items become worth real life money becuase they've transcended a barrier when in the games designers plans they are not worth money. Take for example highlevel WoW acconts, your not techcically sipposed to sell them but people do (i know someone who set up a buisness pretty much on that design, of course totally against the terms of use and i guess you can get sued). Could a man pay a hit-man in Lvl 80 Knight Elf hunters? Druids? Shamans?!!

How about the obvious exampe of WoW gold. it becomes apparent now why blizzard shat themselves over the huge market that was created via gold farming. It was huge buisness.

It's a kind of surreal though to think that a harmless flash MMO could potentially be a vey powerfull money laudering tool but as digital items gain more and more real life worth then i guess we will have to takle these issues more and more.

Don't be stupid. No-one wants to pay for a Shaman.

Hehe, thats why i put it at the end with exclimation marks. Yeah shamans do suck.

On a more serious note, hoe do games like Farmville get away with thir BS? They must violate every single principle in the book about digital ownership. Perhaps it's because their based in china and very hard to sue but surely their slightly neferious practices to kind of put a dark cloud over the future of 'free' MMOs.

There really needs to be some kind of standard charter or aproval system for these games so the bad ones can be flagged up. Perhaos some kind of real clear international law on digital ownership.

DividedUnity:
Id love to see someone pull off the worlds greatest bank robbery and get away with it cause they used WoW. That would be such a kick in the nuts for police.

I just realised I finally know what EVE is so money based for. Assassins I tells ya

It was already done (in a sense) with Eve Online back in '06.

Agents joined a Guild, gained their trust and robbed them for $16,500 worth of in game gear. What was interesting at the time is that it was used as a marketing tool by CCP touting it as an example of how hardcore, cutthroat and living their game world was.

I remember hearing that the 30 Billion ISK stolen was sold to gold farmers, but that could just have been wild rumor.

Void(null):

DividedUnity:
Id love to see someone pull off the worlds greatest bank robbery and get away with it cause they used WoW. That would be such a kick in the nuts for police.

I just realised I finally know what EVE is so money based for. Assassins I tells ya

It was already done (in a sense) with Eve Online back in '06.

Agents joined a Guild, gained their trust and robbed them for $16,500 worth of in game gear. What was interesting at the time is that it was used as a marketing tool by CCP touting it as an example of how hardcore, cutthroat and living their game world was.

I remember hearing that the 30 Billion ISK stolen was sold to gold farmers, but that could just have been wild rumor.

That was quite an epic story. Fair play to them though most people would do the same for that kind of reward. And although it may seem silly if I saw that you could make that much money from stealing stuff from other people in a game nevermind earning it yourself id probably join up to try and get a taste

DividedUnity:

Void(null):

DividedUnity:
Id love to see someone pull off the worlds greatest bank robbery and get away with it cause they used WoW. That would be such a kick in the nuts for police.

I just realised I finally know what EVE is so money based for. Assassins I tells ya

It was already done (in a sense) with Eve Online back in '06.

Agents joined a Guild, gained their trust and robbed them for $16,500 worth of in game gear. What was interesting at the time is that it was used as a marketing tool by CCP touting it as an example of how hardcore, cutthroat and living their game world was.

I remember hearing that the 30 Billion ISK stolen was sold to gold farmers, but that could just have been wild rumor.

That was quite an epic story. Fair play to them though most people would do the same for that kind of reward. And although it may seem silly if I saw that you could make that much money from stealing stuff from other people in a game nevermind earning it yourself id probably join up to try and get a taste

Thats kind of what goes on in EVE from what I understand though not to that scale hers another eve story. http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/57098

Money laundering is a pretty boring subject so he has naturally embellished it with an assassin. I can see how it could be used to launder, it doesnt leave much of a trail and it crosses international borders. Also yes corporations are responsible for the money that goes through them because those very companies can be owned by launderers. If it can happen to a bank then it can happen to world of wombles.

Its a good heads up to developers to make sure they cover themselves and report any unusual activity.

Formica Archonis:

Pendragon9:
Obviously, the solution is to make it so you have to provide legal information when making these transaction style make, and make penalties for people who don't provide the truth. Then make sure every transaction leaves behind a trail in game. Thus it would leave a proper digital trail.

And it makes buying a virtual thing more complicated than buying a real thing. Thus will never be implemented.

Which is why, if you look further into my post, I clearly say this would be the case and thus don't blame them for not implementing it.

Did you read that part? :/

Pendragon9:

Formica Archonis:

Pendragon9:
Obviously, the solution is to make it so you have to provide legal information when making these transaction style make, and make penalties for people who don't provide the truth. Then make sure every transaction leaves behind a trail in game. Thus it would leave a proper digital trail.

And it makes buying a virtual thing more complicated than buying a real thing. Thus will never be implemented.

Which is why, if you look further into my post, I clearly say this would be the case and thus don't blame them for not implementing it.

Did you read that part? :/

Actually, your exact words were "Of course, to perfect such a system is almost impossible, so I get what they mean." which I took to mean implementation (authentication servers, prosecution of wrongdoers) with no addressing of usability issues. I don't really care about the implementation one iota.

My poorly-articulated point was that as soon as it's harder for the end user to buy something online than it is to drive to a store, pick up a box, and drop it on a counter with a credit card, then the system won't be used.

I would think they'd be more concerned about prostitution than murder. Sound crazy? Probably isn't as far-fetched as it seems, either. If you are willing to sell your body online for some rare mount or weapon, it's not that far of a leap to consider you'd be willing to get someone eliminated. Perhaps we'll see an episode of The Guild with this as a plot device in the future.

Joe Deadman:

One thing though: a videogamer having their spouse killed? What spouse??!!??

It would probably be to save money in the divorce settlement when the spouse eventually leaves him.

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