Science!: Alternate Realities and Bullet Proof Cotton T-Shirts

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Science!: Alternate Realities and Bullet Proof Cotton T-Shirts

Could blackholes actually be wormholes into alternate realities?

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You know what I was doing when I saw that picture of the snail?

Eating Yogurt. Now you screwed my appetite.
On the plus, Bulletproof cotton T-shirts that say "SHOOT ME" Have increased in sales 200% in the last 5 minutes.

Complex organisms that don't need oxygen quick start researching them so we can live in space with out the need to breath muwhahaha! That is about the coolest thing I ever heard.

I definitely want a bulletproof T-shirt. Especially if I can get it in a Super Mario 3 design.

The wormhole theory is interesting to say the least...just as plausible as everything else we've come up with thus far.

It seems the scientific community is going out of its way to increase the awesomeness of the common T-shirt. I'd already heard about colour-changing T-shirts, and plastic solar cells that could be woven into fabric - could we end up seeing bulletproof, selectively camouflaged clothing able to power a laptop deep in enemy territory? It'd be the soldier's best friend!

And I'd imagine that a certain percentage of Escapists have now descended into full-blown foetal-position gibbering at the mention of "quantum mechanics".

I want one of those T-shirts.

Somehow I would just find it hard to have confidence in the bullet-stopping capabilities of an armored t-shirt. Now if they used that method to create vest inserts roughly the same size as the current kevlar inserts it would be a different story. Dropping weight off the typical warfighter's gear would definitely be a plus, my vest had to weigh about 40 pounds between the ammo, armor plates, radio, ECM, and grenades. Thats not even counting my rifle, helmet, pack with food and water, rocket launcher, rockets, and 20 pound satchel charge.

Would be really cool if the Blackhole thing is true.

It means, out there. There could be another me...another everyone...imagine how lives might have been different...

"Science all up in this bitch!"
...
Sorry, had to get that out of my system.

Anyway, the whole black hole/alternate universe thing fascinates me, and sounds pretty awesome.

Also, bulletproof T-Shirts? If it actually works, it could be the coolest thing ever.

I really don't understand quantum mechanics, but aren't blackholes just areas of extreme gravity and dense mass? How could they be portals to another dimension?

So wait, this means that if we invent something to send us through a black hole and send messages back, after much trial and error, we could go into a utopia? Even better, combine this with the "Writers are channeling alternate universes" idea, and we get the ability to go to The Firefly 'Verse? Good thing that cure to aging is 30 to 40 years away, after all, it would take sometime to get there. Besides, even if that "channeling alternate universes" theory is wrong, there is still some place where Firefly continued for all eternity. I love science!

I made the mistake of looking at the mentioned equations, and now I can say, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that I want to die.

I hope the black hole/alternate universe isn't true, because then JJ Abrams will just make more movies/shows with it as the main theme.

oppp7:
I really don't understand quantum mechanics,

Which is to say you're not amazed by it?:)

oppp7:
but aren't blackholes just areas of extreme gravity and dense mass? How could they be portals to another dimension?

I have no understanding of the math, so I can't explain how it could even be possible. Since this hypothesis currently seems to be mostly math, I think we're all stuck for a response. Wait for the other smart people to peer review and hope one of them explains it. I mean, here's the linked abstract, em and en dashes changed to hyphens and all those silly one-character "fi"s and "fl"s removed:

We consider the radial geodesic motion of a massive particle into a black hole in isotropic coordinates, which represents the exterior region of an Einstein-Rosen bridge (wormhole). The particle enters the interior region, which is regular and physically equivalent to the asymptotically flat exterior of a white hole, and the particle's proper time extends to infinity. Since the radial motion into a wormhole after passing the event horizon is physically different from the motion into a Schwarzschild black hole, Einstein-Rosen and Schwarzschild black holes are different, physical realizations of general relativity. Yet for distant observers, both solutions are indistinguishable. We show that timelike geodesics in the field of a wormhole are complete because the expansion scalar in the Raychaudhuri equation has a discontinuity at the horizon, and because the Einstein-Rosen bridge is represented by the Kruskal diagram with Rindler's elliptic identification of the two antipodal future event horizons. These results suggest that observed astrophysical black holes may be Einstein-Rosen bridges, each with a new universe inside that formed simultaneously with the black hole. Accordingly, our own Universe may be the interior of a black hole existing inside another universe.

After a struggle and a few sketchy areas, I made it as far as "geodesics" before my brain fell out. And this is the abstract, the summary that's supposed to let the reader get an easy and quick idea of the whole document. Lauren's first paragraph is sort of a summary of the summary with some added commentary. Allow me to do a summary of the summary of the summary: "Boy howdy, space is confusing for being mostly empty." And now I expect a knight to walk in and try sell a guide book*.

(* Sorry, obscure reference to a surrealist Archie comic from the 1960's, where a knight walked through the scene three times selling plot summaries and guide books to confused characters. Best Archie comic ever. But I'm rambling.)

Personally, I think it's obvious. All the alternate realities are sending gamma-ray bursts through to try turn us all into The Incredible Hulk. So as soon as someone Hulks out, we're gonna throw him into a black hole so he can fight the alternate-reality bastards. We'll probably also send a camera crew.

'Scuse me, I'm going to find my brain and then watch owls while I get it reseated. BABY OWLS!

Reload the page six times, nothing, repost, double post. ARGH!

HG131:
So wait, this means that if we invent something to send us through a black hole and send messages back, after much trial and error, we could go into a utopia?

Assuming their physics are the same as ours. Don't see any reason why the cosmological constants have to be the same between 'verses. Similar I suppose, else 'their' black holes wouldn't exist, but perhaps another set of constants leads to universes with "white holes" that output something more than gamma radiation, so it'd be a one-way trip. If you didn't get smushed. But this is all daydreaming; I'm moving well beyond credibility for discussion and must get back to work!

Another set of just Awesome facts.

I especially like the blackhole theory. Though this does kinda screw with the hope of moving through space at fast than light for the moment.

Also, doesn't the theory of relativity allow for wormholes. They are just really small and require atrociously high energy to keep open.

I thought anyway.

If only I had an oven and some boron id be turning all my clothes bulletproof. Though i doubt its bullet proof not bullet resistant. Still though, would be so aweosme as long as I didnt get shot in the head

oppp7:
I really don't understand quantum mechanics, but aren't blackholes just areas of extreme gravity and dense mass? How could they be portals to another dimension?

Black holes are areas of extreme gravity and dense mass.
They aren't portals.
Black holes have Gamma bursts, Stars have solar flares.

Bulletproof shirts sound cool, I'd like to know the boron mixture they use so I can convert all my shirts.

Formica Archonis:

oppp7:
I really don't understand quantum mechanics,

Which is to say you're not amazed by it?:)

oppp7:
but aren't blackholes just areas of extreme gravity and dense mass? How could they be portals to another dimension?

I have no understanding of the math, so I can't explain how it could even be possible. Since this hypothesis currently seems to be mostly math, I think we're all stuck for a response. Wait for the other smart people to peer review and hope one of them explains it. I mean, here's the linked abstract, em and en dashes changed to hyphens and all those silly one-character "fi"s and "fl"s removed:

We consider the radial geodesic motion of a massive particle into a black hole in isotropic coordinates, which represents the exterior region of an Einstein-Rosen bridge (wormhole). The particle enters the interior region, which is regular and physically equivalent to the asymptotically flat exterior of a white hole, and the particle's proper time extends to infinity. Since the radial motion into a wormhole after passing the event horizon is physically different from the motion into a Schwarzschild black hole, Einstein-Rosen and Schwarzschild black holes are different, physical realizations of general relativity. Yet for distant observers, both solutions are indistinguishable. We show that timelike geodesics in the field of a wormhole are complete because the expansion scalar in the Raychaudhuri equation has a discontinuity at the horizon, and because the Einstein-Rosen bridge is represented by the Kruskal diagram with Rindler's elliptic identification of the two antipodal future event horizons. These results suggest that observed astrophysical black holes may be Einstein-Rosen bridges, each with a new universe inside that formed simultaneously with the black hole. Accordingly, our own Universe may be the interior of a black hole existing inside another universe.

After a struggle and a few sketchy areas, I made it as far as "geodesics" before my brain fell out. And this is the abstract, the summary that's supposed to let the reader get an easy and quick idea of the whole document. Lauren's first paragraph is sort of a summary of the summary with some added commentary. Allow me to do a summary of the summary of the summary: "Boy howdy, space is confusing for being mostly empty." And now I expect a knight to walk in and try sell a guide book*.

(* Sorry, obscure reference to a surrealist Archie comic from the 1960's, where a knight walked through the scene three times selling plot summaries and guide books to confused characters. Best Archie comic ever. But I'm rambling.)

Personally, I think it's obvious. All the alternate realities are sending gamma-ray bursts through to try turn us all into The Incredible Hulk. So as soon as someone Hulks out, we're gonna throw him into a black hole so he can fight the alternate-reality bastards. We'll probably also send a camera crew.

'Scuse me, I'm going to find my brain and then watch owls while I get it reseated. BABY OWLS!

Ah, thank you for clearing that up. :)
Edit: Does this mean all of existence could be a bunch of fractal universes?

If it's possible our universe lives inside a different universe, would that mean black holes do the opposite on the other side? So instead of taking in matter, it pushes it out at a high rate? Quantum mechanics have always amazed me.

Has anyone else seen the show Sliders? If yes,than you know how cool alternate universes would be. EVERY other conceivable outcome is another universe...and that's just nuts. But again, friggin cool.

I'm more interested in this 'exotic matter'. Anti-grav is such a bizarre notion, especially when applied to matter.

Reading that I'm getting an old fuzzy nostalgic feeling towards Farscape. Damn, I love that show.

So the idea is that the reason black holes are so dense and hot is because there's an entire universe in them? Now that's my kind of physics.

I remember reading one theory that said that black holes exist for some kind of cosmic survival of the fittest; like living beings, universe exist to create the most offspring (the universes in the black holes) and so most physical constants are the way they are simply because they're the ones that make it more likely for black holes to appear in a universe. And the reason we exist is a mere side effect of this, because we are carbon-based lifeforms and a high carbon concentration is one of the things that makes it more likely for a universe to have space babies.

As for the t-shirt:

Read what? i: a scroll labeled AXAXUAXUAXUAXUA MLO
Your t-shirt glows green for a moment.
i: a scroll of enchant armor.
d: a +8, +8 t-shirt.

We have so many hypothesis on black holes, yet we've never tested anything. I say we take a camera, tape it to a satelite, and got at it hell or high water.

I hope so because this reality sucks...

The tshirts may stop a bullet penetrating them...

But the bullets will still break whatever they hit underneath the tshirt. If it's really that flexible, it will flex in with the bullet... Ouch.

oppp7:
Ah, thank you for clearing that up. :)

No problem. Just holler if you need more mud in the water.:)

oppp7:
Edit: Does this mean all of existence could be a bunch of fractal universes?

Conceivably, it could!

Daemascus:
I hope so because this reality sucks...

That's only because you haven't seen the intelligent carnivorous plant universe yet.

Formica Archonis:

We consider the radial geodesic motion of a massive particle into a black hole in isotropic coordinates, which represents the exterior region of an Einstein-Rosen bridge (wormhole). The particle enters the interior region, which is regular and physically equivalent to the asymptotically flat exterior of a white hole, and the particle's proper time extends to infinity. Since the radial motion into a wormhole after passing the event horizon is physically different from the motion into a Schwarzschild black hole, Einstein-Rosen and Schwarzschild black holes are different, physical realizations of general relativity. Yet for distant observers, both solutions are indistinguishable. We show that timelike geodesics in the field of a wormhole are complete because the expansion scalar in the Raychaudhuri equation has a discontinuity at the horizon, and because the Einstein-Rosen bridge is represented by the Kruskal diagram with Rindler's elliptic identification of the two antipodal future event horizons. These results suggest that observed astrophysical black holes may be Einstein-Rosen bridges, each with a new universe inside that formed simultaneously with the black hole. Accordingly, our own Universe may be the interior of a black hole existing inside another universe.

After a struggle and a few sketchy areas, I made it as far as "geodesics" before my brain fell out.

Drawing on my studies of quantum mechanics, I managed as far as "isotropic coordinates" before I wobble hurgle mrnfk plerc foubrat ghkt skwerpynuibey.
Mgnngngh.

What I find amusing about the black hole theories etc is that the science of the greater universe is mainly speculation. and when these speculations need explaining a new speculation is made.

Consider this: A Person doesn't know how ants build colonies, he can't actually see the colonies inside and read ant minds so he speculates that they have a queen who directs their every will.
Now being a chump, this guy can't collect any evidence to this queen claim so he makes another theory that ant's minds are feeble and thus need a queen to direct them.

His new theory explains the old one while being pure speculation. It's all quite interesting really. We have no idea what black holes are all about so we make theories, counter theories and supporting theories about these theories just to hold our theories true until dis-proven.

Also, that shirt is win, the snails are cute and the oxygen-less bacterium is rather cool too.

material impenetrable to bullets= possible.
thin material able to cancel out all the energy invested in a speeding bullet= currently impossible

"good thing that material stopped the bullet, now will you help me dig it out of my shattered ribcage?"

If you are fascinated by the concept or imagery of black holes, even in the dramatic or fantastical sense that sci-fi media presents them but don't quite grasp 'what' they are or the scientific problems surrounding them are then please read on.

First, allow me to convey a more workable image of a black hole for you. Take a large, heavy bowling ball and put it at the center of your bed. Notice how the sheets and mattress sink in around the ball and warp the fabric around it. Farther away the warp is more subtle but closer in it becomes dramatically more visible. Now take a small marble or gumball and roll it across the bed in a path that doesn't intersect with the bowling ball. If you rolled it very lightly, the path the smaller ball takes spirals inward toward the larger ball until it meets. If you roll the smaller ball harder it might bend a little toward the bowling ball but ultimately continue across the bed.

What you just did was simulate pretty much gravity and space for objects in it. If that bowling ball was a sun and the marble a comet, pretty much the same thing would happen. Now imagine a bowling ball so heavy it sinks through the mattress and sheets leaving nothing but a void, a hole. You roll the small marble just like before and notice that if you don't roll it hard enough it just sinks into the void, and no matter how hard you roll it, if it crosses a definable boundary, the cliff of the hole in the mattress, the marble can't roll out.

That is what is happening around a black hole. So much mass in such a small area as warped space into a void that even the fastest things(traveling at the speed of light, the cosmic speed limit) can't get out once they have crossed the threshold, the event horizon.

Okay now that you can grasp whats going around a black hole, what exactly is happening inside of it. What state of matter and energy and space is reality past the event horizon? Is it all being crushed indefinitely into an ever smaller point with no limit? Is it 'bubbling out' into/through another expanding dimension filled with the matter-energy sucked inside? Something totally different?

Well to answer that question we need to apply a model of understanding. For the super massive scale of large objects like stars, galaxies, the context of gravity we use General Relativity. For the super small scale of small objects like photons, quarks, and the forces that play with them, like electromagnetism, strong/weak nuclear forces, etc, we use Quantum Mechanics.

Black Holes are both super massive, gravitationally immense but also indefinitely small inside the event horizon. So we can't have a workable, complete understanding of them unless we use both General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics. The problem is, attempting to apply both models results in nonsense. Mathematically anomalies, contradictions, and noise fill the interplay when this is attempted meaning that the models, while individually well refined and very verified in their respective context, when combined are simply an incomplete picture.

The problems are most notable when you examine space at the ultra small scale when gravity is incorporated. As you know from above, objects in space warp and bend space itself around them, this includes tiny particles themselves like quarks. However, the Quantum Mechanical model also makes these particles very fuzzy and violent. They exhibit odd characteristics like wave properties and their location and velocity can be indeterminable.

Well, what happens to space in the presence of this reality of particles? It becomes a roiling, chaotic foam, a horribly violent soup of space-time that pretty much makes any kind of modeling or useful information moot, you simply can't get anything useful or reasonable from space at this level and thus the core of the anomalies when you try to apply both Quantum Mechanics and General Relativity together and the reason why Black Holes are such a curious thing for science.

They are basically a huge red light to physicists that say "Hey, you think you can get away with dividing the universe into the small and large and think you could have a complete understanding of everything? Pffft."

You know I never understood the need to preserve some species. Like Panda's for example, they're cute and all but even when we put them in a natural environment, pump some Barry White and feed them in such a way where their sex drive could blow a hole in the planet - they refuse to FUCK. If they're we're going to be like that they were most likely going to die out in due time.

oppp7:
I really don't understand quantum mechanics, but aren't blackholes just areas of extreme gravity and dense mass? How could they be portals to another dimension?

The trouble is, nobody really knows. Once you exceed a certain density threshold, the strength of gravity is sufficient to overpower all other forces in the vicinity. This is notable because gravity is the weakest of all the forces - note how simply magnetism (a fairly strong force, and commonly accepted to be the result of much, much smaller nuclear forces) is able to overpower the gravity that results from several trillion tons of matter that is the planet. Beyond this threshold, even the incredibly strong nuclear forces are unable to resist and matter is inexoriably crushed.

The part that's difficult to fathom is what happens once these unimaginable thresholds are breached. A "black hole" (that is an object of sufficient mass that light itself cannot escape) does not require infinite density in the most literal sense - indeed a very finite (but difficult to fathom) density is all that's necessary. Few physicists will propose that black holes are an object of non-infinite density however, because once all of the known forces in the universe have been overcome, the best conclusion one can draw is collapse to singularity.

Stranger still perhaps is Hawking's theory that black holes evaporate. Apparently, matter has a strange habit of popping in and out of existance. According to theoritical physics, our normal matter has an evil twin (called anti-matter) and in any instance where matter pops into being (for reasons that aren't entirely clear, nor has it ever been observed but the math has held up for several decades now) it comes with it's evil twin. Where the normal matter is often able to escape into the universe, the antimatter is not and is drawn into the black hole where it annihlates an equal amount of mass of said black hole. It is worth noting that while the density of this object may be infinte, it's mass is not (though it is very, very high). Over time the result of decreased mass is a reduction of the event horizon (the surface in space marking the point at which gravity is so strong that even light cannot escape).

The real problem is there has never been a direct observation of a black hole (space is quite large) and we have only detected their presence by induction. Worse still, every rule in physics falls apart once you cross the event horizon because, quite simply, math doesn't work at infinity (thus why dividing by zero never returns a real value).

AnteGravity:
Well, what happens to space in the presence of this reality of particles? It becomes a roiling, chaotic foam, a horribly violent soup of space-time that pretty much makes any kind of modeling or useful information moot, you simply can't get anything useful or reasonable from space at this level and thus the core of the anomalies when you try to apply both Quantum Mechanics and General Relativity together and the reason why Black Holes are such a curious thing for science.

Well said in general but I wanted to comment on this point. As you have already pointed out, there are two main branches of modern physics that more or less replaced the older forms (Dynamics, Kinematics, Mechanics and Thermodynamics). While classical physics works just fine in most circumstances, once you start reaching extremes of size or speed or mass, they fall apart pretty quickly. While our modern understanding has demonstrated that quantum mechanics reconciles with virtually every observation we have of the universe, it just never seems to work out when applied to gravity. It's the longest ranged force in the universe yet it is generally the weakest. When sufficient mass is present it becomes the strongest. Gravity appears to be a property inherent to mass yet it affects things that seemingly have no mass. Basically what you hit on is the big unanswered question in physics - a unified theory of gravitation. People have tried for decades now to sort it out and time and again they have been foiled as you pointed out. While there are a great many unaswered questions in physics, the unified theory problem is almost certainly the biggest, and whomever eventually resolves it may well be remembered for having made the greatest contribution to science since Newton (and even he might take a back seat for that one).

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