Escape to the Movies: The Losers

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Why in the world are you calling for Robin? Nothing good can come from that.

well the losers looks like a fun time to spend with friends watch a action flick. the cats looks good enough but one thing in this review that troubled me. Avatar is not a better film the Star Trek. so yea just putting that out there avatar is a overhyped mess not saying is was awful but there better films out there but this is my opinion on the matter please do not bite my head off.

mchoueiri:
well the losers looks like a fun time to spend with friends watch a action flick. the cats looks good enough but one thing in this review that troubled me. Avatar is not a better film the Star Trek. so yea just putting that out there avatar is a overhyped mess not saying is was awful but there better films out there but this is my opinion on the matter please do not bite my head off.

Avatar is better than Star Trek. I know hating on Avatar is popular, but the truth is Avatar is smarter, bigger, and better.

Oh and as for the movie, I'll tell you the first thing that strikes me from the trailers I've seen.

It reminds me of something Yahtzee said in his Uncharted 2 review talking about how Hollywood likes to take actors and personalities that look more than capable for their part and still consider them flawed.

Like one of his examples putting a Victoria model in a dirty sweater and calling her ugly, or suggesting a GQ model with a six pack is out of shape just because he grunts from jumping from one cliff edge to another.

The characters in this movie look nothing like a group of losers, they look like any generically bland cast of action figures you'd expect from a dumb as blonde movie like this. There is absolutely no attempt made to make them seem flawed in a slightest bit and yet I'm suppose to take the titles word for it?

This movie looks like 2 hours worth of fail wrapped in insult to me...>:(

Decabo:

Avatar is better than Star Trek. I know hating on Avatar is popular, but the truth is Avatar is smarter, bigger, and better.

avatar was not smarter. just because it played the old "respect nature and dont displace natives" card does not mean its smart. and the impressive graphics do not make it better. they just make it prettier.

im not hating on avatar. it simply was not some mind blowing experience.

Nomanslander:

(On a serious note, I'm sorry Bob, you might like the guy but Robin stands for everything that's wrong with the series. The whole point of his existence was that parents were afraid Batman was too dark for kids so they decided to throw in a teenage clown to PG it up and instead substituted crime and grit with pedophilic and homo erotic innuendos almost ruining Batman FOREVER.)

Robin was added to the series in the 1940s mainly because someone at DC comics thought that having a kid the same age as most of the readers hanging out with Batman would appeal to them. Given that it's been SEVENTY years since then, and that there has been a Robin of one form or another in Batman books almost-constantly since, someone at DC comics seems to have been right about that. Just sayin' ;)

People forget this because Robin was mostly persona-non-grata in the (awful) grim-n-gritty 90s comics and didn't make it into the two Tim Burton movies, but the franchise has been "Batman & Robin" for 99% of it's existance: Batman was without a Robin for ONE YEAR - literally a mere 11 issues - of his existance. Pretty much every great Batman story ever written either involved a Robin or took place during a period when there was one.

I'm not necessarily saying that's the reason it "has to be" done... Just that there's got to be SOME reason why, no matter which version it is, he turns up in nearly every Batman retelling at some point...

Decabo:

mchoueiri:
well the losers looks like a fun time to spend with friends watch a action flick. the cats looks good enough but one thing in this review that troubled me. Avatar is not a better film the Star Trek. so yea just putting that out there avatar is a overhyped mess not saying is was awful but there better films out there but this is my opinion on the matter please do not bite my head off.

Avatar is better than Star Trek. I know hating on Avatar is popular, but the truth is Avatar is smarter, bigger, and better.

not not smarter but looking yea but not smarter no were close to smart. now I don't hate on avatar because everyone does I dislike it because I do not think it is a good film but I am stating my own thoughts on the matter. doesn't mean you have to agree with me or disagree.

Moviebob, your argument is flawed from the beginning. Hit Girl is getting attention for the over-the-top language she uses and violence she enacts, which can really only work in a bright, GARE-ish movie like Kick-Ass. In the darker, more subtle (kinda) Batman films, I don't think such a character would work in quite the same way as Hit Girl would.

As for Robin in a Batman film, that is a gutsy move. If they're going to put him in a Nolan Batman flick, the biggest thing they have to do is keep Robin his proper age. Don't bring in some 21-year old man who can look Batman in the eye without going on tip-toes in and say "Look! It's Robin!" Keep Robin 11. Keep him a child.

My advice for how Robin would work best would probably earn a lot of hate mail if enacted. I would:

Make Robin an 11 year old child who lost his parents under similar circumstances to Bruce Wayne. However, rather then spending years globetrotting and training to become the best superhero he can be, he just dives right into crime fighting, earning a name for himself.

In the mean time, Batman's alter ego, Wayne, is suffering mentally from his actions in The Dark Knight. Being on the run from the police has made him largely ineffective, as he has no friends on the streets of Gotham. The crooks he hunts all try to kill him, the police are trying to kill him, and even the common folks on the street will try to kill him if they see him. He is torn between the vow he made to his parents to save Gotham, and the realization that Gotham no longer wants him. He begins to debate hanging up the cowl for good.

One night, the night that is supposed to be his last night as Batman, he spies the young vigilante known as Robin getting his ass kicked. At first Batman is in shock over Robin's age, as the criminals defeated by Robin have lied about it in order to save face (no one wants to admit to being beaten up by a pre-teen). However, when it becomes clear that Robin needs Batman's help, he swoops in and saves the day, spiriting Robin away to the Batcave.

When Robin awakes, he finds that his wounds have been treated, but his mask has not been removed. Batman comes down to the cave and tells his story, how his parents were killed and how he too chose to become a vigilante, and how he is now starting to regret his choice. He tries to convince Robin to give up crime fighting, but Robin says that he can't; he made a promise to his parents to fight the evil that took their lives. Shocked by this remarkable similarity, Batman agrees to help Robin in his crusade, though Bruce has still chosen to retire his Batman persona (in the sense that he will no longer go out and fight crime).

He helps him by providing Robin with some of his martial arts training, as well as giving him his own utility belt and gadgets.

In the mean time, whatever villain they've put in the movie has slowly been assembling all
(s)he needs for their masterstroke. Batman has been trying to figure out what the plan is, and finally realizes that the big bad thing is being disguised as some benevolent act, so for him to attempt to stop it would make him even more of a monster in the eyes of Gotham City. This stuns him, and he can't bring himself to stop it. However, Robin is disgusted that Batman can break his promise to his parents so easily, and goes out alone to stop the bad guy. Batman of course realizes that Robin is right and helps him defeat the villain. However, at the last minute, Batman is detained by the big bad while Robin is caught, unmasked, and arrested.

At Robin's trial, Robin is aquitted after lawyers (paid for by Wayne) point out that according to all of Robin's victims, Robin is a man in his late teens or 20s, so this pre-teen can't be the real Robin, only some pretender. However, being so young and an orphan, the court rules that Robin will be a ward of the state, which fills Robin with dread, as he knows that due to the corrupt nature of the Gothom Police will allow them to force Robin into a situation where he can be killed. However, Bruce Wayne comes to Robin's rescue, making him his ward.

Back at Wayne Manor, Robin is wary of Bruce until he meets Alfred, who Robin recognizes from his time in the Batcave. Realizing who really adopted him, Robin asks Batman when he gets to go back out and fight crime. Batman says that "Robin" isn't going to anymore, that he needs a new name, like... "Nightwing".

The film ends with Batman and Nightwing going out into the night to clean up Gotham City.

Now I realize that there are some plot holes, and things that make little sense, and I know comic fans would be pissed that at the end Nightwing would be played by an 11 year old, but I think this would be the best way to work Robin into a Nolan Batman film.

ZZoMBiE13:

SuperMse:

Hey. when done right, Robin can kick some serious ass.

I never said otherwise. I said remember the last time HOLLYWOOD got ahold of the character?

Yes, he(or she) can be done well as B:TAS and Dark Knight Returns have proven. My point was that telling the suits who may be watching that adding ROBIN merely for the sake of turning more profit is a bad tightrope to walk, if you'll forgive the bad analogy considering the topic we're discussing.

All I'm saying is let it be Nolan and his creative team's decision. Don't tease the studios into doing something just for the sake of this weeks popular trend from KICK-ASS. That's what happened with O'Donnel and awful though they may be, Batman: Forever and Batman & Robin both made money. And that's all the studios care about. Development of characters should come from narrative, not a desire to sell action figures and badly made Halloween costumes for the underage set.

Alright. I'm sorry if it seemed like I was offending you; I was actually trying to say that just because it had been done badly in the past does not mean that we should not consider it for future installments. But yes, I agree that this should only be done if that's what Nolan's team wants.

I think a good batman and robin could be done, robin would have to be really fucked up though for it to work. Like a kid who has an alcoholic abusive father and is hopelessly addicted to narcotics while also being regularly bullied at school before Bruce Wayne through some unlikely co-incidence runs in to him and takes pity on the little shit then chooses to raise him like a son or something. I dunno I'm not a writer. Though I imagine if they go for PG-13 that kind of story wont be possible so they'll probably steer clear of all things Robin. :P

Incidentally, in case people didn't know this, they actually tried to put Robin into both of the Tim Burton movies: In the first one, Joker was supposed to run over a family of acrobats setting up a street-circus during a chase scene, and the survivor would grow up to be Robin.

Then one of the Wayans brothers was going to do it in Batman Returns, but they scrapped the idea at the last minute. Supposedly, they'd even already made figure-molds of him for the toy line and just repainted them white. Really.

Movie Bob is starting to scare me w/ his obsession with the girl from Kick Ass.

I am glad to hear The Losers is what I thought it would be. I almost made plans to see it.

Regarding adding Robin to the Nolan Batman cycle:

*ahem*

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO *breathe* OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

BAD idea! BAD BAD BAD idea! Get away from the Batman movies, or I will be forced to release the hounds.

D... did Chipman just ASK for another Batman & Robin? Did that man just REQUEST for a repeat of what is widely considered the worst batman movie ever made?

And did he just compare Robin to Hit-Girl?
I mean, yeah, they are both sidekicks, but that's about where the similarities end. Robin is a puling little schoolgirl compared to hit girl, and no one LIKES Robin.

Moviebob... you a master of missing the point.

EDIT: Oh, and did he just diss Big Trouble in Little China?

MovieBob:

Nomanslander:

(On a serious note, I'm sorry Bob, you might like the guy but Robin stands for everything that's wrong with the series. The whole point of his existence was that parents were afraid Batman was too dark for kids so they decided to throw in a teenage clown to PG it up and instead substituted crime and grit with pedophilic and homo erotic innuendos almost ruining Batman FOREVER.)

Robin was added to the series in the 1940s mainly because someone at DC comics thought that having a kid the same age as most of the readers hanging out with Batman would appeal to them. Given that it's been SEVENTY years since then, and that there has been a Robin of one form or another in Batman books almost-constantly since, someone at DC comics seems to have been right about that. Just sayin' ;)

People forget this because Robin was mostly persona-non-grata in the (awful) grim-n-gritty 90s comics and didn't make it into the two Tim Burton movies, but the franchise has been "Batman & Robin" for 99% of it's existance: Batman was without a Robin for ONE YEAR - literally a mere 11 issues - of his existance. Pretty much every great Batman story ever written either involved a Robin or took place during a period when there was one.

I'm not necessarily saying that's the reason it "has to be" done... Just that there's got to be SOME reason why, no matter which version it is, he turns up in nearly every Batman retelling at some point...

I don't know, Robin has always been that side kick that was just there even when his story was implemented well.

I'm not saying he doesn't have a place in the Batman mythos, quite the contrary, but his presents has always been tricky, and most of the time handled very badly.

I know he has his fans, but as for me and I'm sure for a lot of people even as kids we never liked him.

Robin has always been the black sheep of the series, and I guess no family is complete without one.

For us he's one step above Jar Jar Binks except for the fact we've all gotten use to him (that and he's had his good moments)....plus I don't think anyone can ever get use to Jar Jar...lol

-_-

If they were going to go with Robin, I'd rather have Tim Drake than Dick Grayson.

Drake was much more abused and ignored than Grayson was. Grayson just got older and left as Nightwing. Drake could show how Batman is placing duty over friendship, and has to deal with a rebellious young man who wants to live up to Batman, but is always in his shadow.

Yeah well kickass isn't showing in my theater so I can't even do that.

1st off. There is a reason Robin hasn't showed up in the new Batman films and why he never will. It's not only because the awesome film franchise that it is wants to avoid the latent homosexual undertones of the Bruce Wayne/Robin duo. The Batman audience was given a chance to kill off Robin or save him years ago in the comics. You remember what they picked? Thats right, dead Robin. And u know what, it only helped Bruce Wayne. The second Robin's death profoundly impacted him and made him a much more darker character. Robin is not needed in the new film series unless they intend to kill him off in the first reel of the movie he appears in.

2ndly. I swear to god Bob, sometimes i wonder whether you are intentionally giving certain movies bad reviews just to piss people off. i agreed with you on Kick-Ass, but seriously, why when you dislike a movie do you need hate on it soo bad. i for one still want to see it because i enjoyed the comic and i would like to see Jeffery Dean Morgan and Zoe Saldana attempt to recreate the dark characters from the comic. Im not too jazzed about Chris Evans though, he just doesnt seem right for the job of playing Jensen.

Khell_Sennet:

meganmeave:
image

Is it me, or is there a really creepy pedo vibe coming off that image?

this response is probably why they won't go with a young robin XD

because the ephebo (which is the correct term for 13+) jokes would begin before pre-production!

Robin is a horrible idea Bob. I would tell you why but all the guys above have already done it better than I could.

Le Tueur:

wildcard9:
*In using The Matrix as an example about how we "imported" our action from China and Japan to remind us how to be awesome: you do realize that The Matrix is a cyberpunk film, invented here in America by the once-great William Gibson? Yeah I know, it is at its heart an import mash-up, but we invented the concept, dammit!

The Matrix's tech style is American but the action style is John Woo. Max Payne and the Matrix are quite close to each other and the tie in is John Woo. And I do like William Gibson's style. He coined "Megacorporation" and I can't even tell you how many things steal from that.

The W-Bros have openly admitted that the Matrix was heavily influenced by Ghost in the Shell, which was in turn based heavily on Gibson, although the term megacorporation isn't exactly too hard to come up with on your own...

Of course, all good storytelling is ripped off of Shakespeare anyway, so really we're all just pretending to be British.

As a side note on the Robin thing: The quality of Batman is inversely proportional to the number of sidekicks and other heroes present. and I don't exactly see how the experience of the story is really enhanced by your dark ninja loner hanging around next to a guy in gaudy red tights who does exactly the same stuff, just not as well.

Really though, Batman is dead in the water as a franchise right now, considering how much Dark Knight relied on Heath Ledger, and anything without him will seem like a disappointment.

Evilproduct:
1st off. There is a reason Robin hasn't showed up in the new Batman films and why he never will. It's not only because the awesome film franchise that it is wants to avoid the latent homosexual undertones of the Bruce Wayne/Robin duo.

Yes, because there isn't a latent homosexual subtext in Nolan and Caine bickering like an old couple at all.

It's not widely discussed, but do you really think it is just random that the moment Bruce Wayne and Harvey Dent meet in TDK the love interest gets pretty much written off?

I agree with the other half of your statement, though. Fans don't like Robin the sidekick at all, and for good reason. It either defuses the character of Batman completely or sends him to a very disturbing place. If you have, like Bob suggests, a straight-up psycho-in-training Robin the theme of the movie instantly becomes "why would a grown up turn a kid into a fighting vigilante?" rather than whether or not a vigilante is ever needed, which seems to be what Nolan is going for with the trilogy.

Ironically, Robin works pretty well as a stand-alone character because of all the daddy issues. It's just that when Batman is actually present Robin is flat out boring.

ArmorArmadillo:
Of course, all good storytelling is ripped off of Shakespeare anyway, so really we're all just pretending to be British.

You win this round....but not for long.

*Walks away with dramatic music*

Yes I agree it is time to bring in Robin again, but lets all pray that they do better than last time.

meganmeave:
image

I'm sorry y'all, but that image is just so damn exploitable... I'm going to be having fun with this one for months...

image

As to Robin in the Nolanverse series, I'd say only if A) Robin is the proper young age, B) it's treated like Hit Girl's role where kids are actually exposed to violence, and C) they don't get some annoying kid who ruins the whole movie by his very presence (ie, the brat in "The Road").

Actually it's Clash of the Titans that I used to sneak in to Kick-Ass a few hours ago...

Hey, Bob. A thought occurred. I think I recall reading something or hearing about something where the actor who currently plays Batman says he would step down if they bogged him down with a sidekick (ie Robin). I doubt Warner Bros. or the other people involved with Batman aren't interesting in messing that up.

RestamSalucard:

Aiddon:
And the next movie is going to be the last, wrapping up everything nicely

Even falling down a waterfall couldn't stop Sherlock Holmes. If it's popular and successful enough, it's going to have a sequel, for better or for worse.

jokulhaups:
Hopefully if they introduce Robin to the Batman franchise they have enough sense to do it in the style of the All-Star Batman & Robin series. It might border on being absurd but it's the only Robin orign story I've seen that could potentially seem like it wasn't being surgically implanted into Nolan's Batman franchise.

I'm sorry, but are you dense? Are you retarded or something? What in god's name possessed you to think a movie about Crazy Steve could possibly make sense?

Murderers, rapists, perverts, petty thieves... They have no regard for human life...I hate them all. My parents are DEAD!

Sorry, I just like my Batman turned up to 11.

Well The Losers is a great comic, I guess it's too much to ask for it to be made into a great movie too. Kind of expected, ah well.

MovieBob:

CK76:
I am surprised Bob would want to introduce Robin on the basis "it will make you money" when part of Nolan's Batman films is they have integrity to the character and have not thrown in villains for merchandise, but to fit narratives.

Bob's wants Robin in the movies because Robin is AWESOME. If "it will make more money" is what it takes to get the studio/filmmakers to do it, then so be it ;)

The problem with Robin has always been that he's a GREAT character who adds a vital extra element to the central Batman franchise... but only after you get past how stupid his existance is.

Lemme explain: From where I sit, Robin has remained a near-constant part of Batman longer than any other added-element because he improves the main character. It gives Batman someone to talk to who isn't a love-interest or a background player. It ups the stakes of the action scenes because now it's two people watching eachothers backs. It allows the exploration of just how "arrested" Batman's psyche actually is (i.e. Bruce Wayne has, in some respects, NOT matured significantly beyond whatever age his parents died at) by having him interact with someone who is a younger equivalent to himself. It helps solve the logic issues of Batman being everywhere at once. It lets you have moments of levity without compromising the lead character.

Problem is, to get ALL THAT... you have to somehow solve the problem that it makes no logical sense for any superhero, least of all Batman, to decide that adopting a troubled orphan and teaching him to be your wingman. Once you find a way around that, your golden ;)

I don't think Robin is destined to be a negative or positive if he is elected to be included in future Nolan Batman films. The issue is why include any character in a film.

Batman Begins - Ra Sha Gul and Scarecrow - I doubt anyone would elect these two characters, but they fit what Nolan was doing, telling Bruce Wayne and Batman's origin story and the theme of fear.

Dark Knight - Joke and Two Face - Bigger profile, but elected again to fit the story. Joker the opposite number and challenge to Batman's hopes and Harvey served as the fulcrum of that struggle.

So, where does Robin fit in the current narrative? What is the theme of Batman 3 (or whatever its title may be). Why would Batman desire an ally and how would such a development effect him and grow into his role as our protagonist? If these questions can not be answered competently then Robin needs to be left out, much like a villain (say, Bane or Killer Croc) would as well.

Again, it COULD work, but it does not need to be forced, it needs to be organic.

Callate:
Regarding adding Robin to the Nolan Batman cycle:

*ahem*

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO *breathe* OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

BAD idea! BAD BAD BAD idea! Get away from the Batman movies, or I will be forced to release the hounds.

Better yet... *dramatic pause*
Release the kraken.

(Ok, ok, I won't do that again)

Looks like bob has the same idea as me, except instead of using the Losers I used how to train your dragon.

Bunner. I have a feeling next week (new Elm Street very possibly) won't be spared as well.

Bummer I mean.
God that was stupid

I know I'm a little late to the party, but is the comic at least any good? Is this a junk adaption of something that's pretty good - or is this just a junk adaption of junk?

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