Stolen Pixels #190: Max Blame, Part 1

Stolen Pixels #190: Max Blame, Part 1

Are games art? One noir-minded, long-winded detective is on the case.

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Hmmm...you know, I just want to start narrating in public now. Seems fun.

I think today's comic all learned us a valuable lesson.

Let Shamus play around with Max Payne comics once in a while. He likes it.

Oh, and something about respecting others opinion

This just seriously makes me want to play Max Payne. Maybe I'll get around to playing the 2nd one this time :P

He did have alot of monologues. Its hilarious how he would try and sound so poetic, whislt putting a shotgun to someones face lol

Great start, you may make an excellent series from this.

Jaredin:
He did have alot of monologues. Its hilarious how he would try and sound so poetic, whislt putting a shotgun to someones face lol

Do you mean to tell me that it's impossible to wax eloquent as a counterpoint to brutal violence?

Max Payne was poetic imo :D

i guess max needs to get his mouth shut just because his family is murdered.I mean look how many people have the same backstory.

I agree Shamus. I never understood why everyone is getting so pissed at a movie critics opinion on games. I don't agree or disagree with him, because I don't care. I just want to play my games. And I will.

Now when everyone is finished with debating art over the internet, call me. I'll be playing Timesplitters.

Wait, wait... you mean we're NOT supposed to provide our own voice-over narration?

So that's what I've been doing wrong all this time!

Ooh I just noticed it says part 1 in the title, looking forward to more of this!

Shamus, I can see you in thirty years being quoted in the newspapers: "Holocubes are not art! They never will be, they do not have the potential to aspire to anything like Psychonauts! Now get this catheter out of me! BLARGH I'M OLD"

Nobody stops Max Payne from his monologues! NOBODY!

Roger Ebert has been involved in the movie business forever, and I find it a little ironic that his most memorable and enduring comments may be the ones regarding video games as art (I personally can't quote him on anything else). I'm sure it's not the legacy he was hoping for.

I also disagree with some of the things Yatzee wrote about. I think it's important and healthy to reflect on the nature of games and to be able to respond coherently to those who know very little about our passion. Let's not just shrug them off as Yatzee suggests and say "who cares about people who don't know gaming". What's the point of only preaching to the choir? It's great that Ebert generated such passion and dialogue in gamers. I don't know anyone who was actually upset by his comment, but I know lots of people who talked and debated about it, who reflected on their gaming memories and tried to define the nature of art. I say it's fantastic! Such intelligent reflection and debate in our forums can only be a good thing.

GoodApprentice:
Roger Ebert has been involved in the movie business forever, and I find it a little ironic that his most memorable and enduring comments may be the ones regarding video games as art (I personally can't quote him on anything else). I'm sure it's not the legacy he was hoping for.

I also disagree with some of the things Yatzee wrote about. I think it's important and healthy to reflect on the nature of games and to be able to respond coherently to those who know very little about our passion. Let's not just shrug them off as Yatzee suggests and say "who cares about people who don't know gaming". What's the point of only preaching to the choir? It's great that Ebert generated such passion and dialogue in gamers. I don't know anyone who was actually upset by his comment, but I know lots of people who talked and debated about it, who reflecting on their gaming memories and tried to define the nature of art. I say it's fantastic! Such intelligent reflection and debate in our forums can only be a good thing.

I think what Yahtzee was driving at is that there is no point in trying to convince those who have convinced themselves of the opposite. More likely then not, Ebert will remain convinced that video games can never be art for the rest of his life. So while his statements may be controversial due to his status, there is no point in worrying over it. In the end, it is just his opinion in an ocean of opinions.

But Ebert did make one valid point and that is that there really is no point for gamers to "jump" to the defence of games. As he said, that makes them look insecure over the statement that games are an artform. If we truly believe that games can be art, we should let the medium grow and speak for itself. Only that will truly disprove the claims of critics and make the validity of that statement apparent.

Besides, it's not like all the other mediums that are considered art nowadays were considered art upon their inception. They too needed to face misunderstanding and/or public scrunity and it took many years before they became widely considered as a form of art. As much as we hate it, video games will also have to undergo that process before they become reognised as an artform.

Now I can't look at my games the same any more...

Screw, I am going to go play Morrowind.

Oh, I missed you little yellow boxes! What fun we shall have together!

TheFacelessOne:
Hmmm...you know, I just want to start narrating in public now. Seems fun.

Oh, it is. Especially if you have a Bluetooth headset. You won't even get funny looks then. Well, you will get funny looks, but then everyone goes "Oh, Bluetooth headset," and stops caring. And then they don't call the local asylum, which is always nice.

As for the "game as art" issue, I'm also with Yahtzee. In order to declare whether video games are art, you first need to define art, and that's going to be different for everyone.

Also, is it just me, or does the phrase "games are (not) art" sound like some video game tie-in to the latest Evangelion remake?

PoweD:
i guess max needs to get his mouth shut just because his family is murdered.I mean look how many people have the same backstory.

Yeah, and look hw many people turn to drugs and drown in the river instead of going on a rampage of awesomeness. Two rampages, to be precise.

Don't ask why, wasn't the wittiest comic from Shamus, but I friggin' loved it. I guess it's the nostalgia.

Tolerant Fanboy:

TheFacelessOne:
Hmmm...you know, I just want to start narrating in public now. Seems fun.

Oh, it is. Especially if you have a Bluetooth headset. You won't even get funny looks then. Well, you will get funny looks, but then everyone goes "Oh, Bluetooth headset," and stops caring. And then they don't call the local asylum, which is always nice.

As for the "game as art" issue, I'm also with Yahtzee. In order to declare whether video games are art, you first need to define art, and that's going to be different for everyone.

Also, is it just me, or does the phrase "games are (not) art" sound like some video game tie-in to the latest Evangelion remake?

People ignoring you? Are you insane!? You take the fun out of it!

I want to walk into a Starbucks and say, "I walked into Starbucks on break, the usual thirty minutes. Twenty-four left. I get up to the counter and ask the lady, "Get some coffee and a muffin to go." I sit at a table as I wait, contemplating my latest problem at my work..."

Benjeezy:

Jaredin:
He did have alot of monologues. Its hilarious how he would try and sound so poetic, whislt putting a shotgun to someones face lol

Do you mean to tell me that it's impossible to wax eloquent as a counterpoint to brutal violence?

Who says it has to be a counterpoint?
Well, I know I am growing tired of the debate agreggating endless. I, for one, still stand in my place; where Ebert is nothing but a blowhard narcissist. But I do look forward to seeing Max Payne in the middle of it all.

TheFacelessOne:
....I want to walk into a Starbucks and say, "I walked into Starbucks on break, the usual thirty minutes. Twenty-four left. I get up to the counter and ask the lady, "Get some coffee and a muffin to go." I sit at a table as I wait, contemplating my latest problem at my work..."

Someone in that shop is going to start snapping in rhythm. Bet you a latte'.

samsonguy920:

TheFacelessOne:
....I want to walk into a Starbucks and say, "I walked into Starbucks on break, the usual thirty minutes. Twenty-four left. I get up to the counter and ask the lady, "Get some coffee and a muffin to go." I sit at a table as I wait, contemplating my latest problem at my work..."

Someone in that shop is going to start snapping in rhythm. Bet you a latte'.

That'd be awesome - but I don't drink coffee.

You know my trick? Mutter the monologe very quietly under your breath and twitch your head randomly every once and a while. Nobody bugs you over that.

EDIT: On the games are/aren't art subject: There's really good arguments that the necessity for interaction is in itself a reason to not consider a game art, as the piece is not complete without the player (MGS4 aside). However, Modern art often has some level of interactivity, either in a mental or physical way that the viewer is engaged with it (one of my personal favorate pieces to bash was a series of five sentences and the piece of "art" was the image tha you came up with mentially).

As for Ebert, every generation has it's cranky old critics: Comic books, Table top games, whatever was going on in the '60s and '70s , and now video games. He's just transitioning into the "stubborn old guy who claims everything was better during his time" stage, along with a lot of others.

The Gentleman:

EDIT: On the games are/aren't art subject: There's really good arguments that the necessity for interaction is in itself a reason to not consider a game art, as the piece is not complete without the player (MGS4 aside).

As much as I dislike Kojima for being the world's most overrated hack writer just because he's writing for video games, he's actually done a lot in the "games as art" area. Take the simple concept that to get bugs off your rations you quickly move the inventory bar up and down, as if you're actually shaking your rations rather than just looking flicking through a visual representation of your items. Now that's genuinely clever!

Wonder if Max has nightmares where he's Mark Wahlberg? That's got to be worse than tho one where he finds his murdered family.

Shamus Young:
I would hope that after a long run like that the public would allow me to hold an unpopular opinion without me becoming a pariah.

BURN THE WITCH!

But no, seriously, it's not worth getting worked up over, especially based on the opinion of someone who doesn't actually play games at all. (It'd be like listening to someone as if they were a film critic, when they have not actually watched a film in their lives.)

Personally, I think that games *can be* art, but that most aren't, at least not in the "high art" sense that Ebert is talking about. (They do all *contain* art, though, and lots of it. There's a difference.)

I remain baffled as to why Braid keeps getting held up as a shining example of this, though. I mean, The Path is way more arty than Braid is. Braid is definitely pretty, but I wouldn't call it (high) art.

animation is art, and storytelling can be considered an art.

on the other hand Shamus is mixing words on us. or I skipped a few sentences.

 

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