The Spoiler That Changed the World

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The Spoiler That Changed the World

What would you do if a single scene changed everything you thought you knew about a movie? (Warning: Spoilers for Iron Man 2!)

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Well, I'm not really sure that it changes anything. At least for awhile.

Right now it could be a superweapon shaped like a hammer.

Even after the Thor movie and Captain America movie ended. It would take the Avengers movie to tie all these loose ends together. People could enjoy all these 3 films seperately

And by the time the mythology is built up, it would be pretty easy to explain that the comic book universe has come to life.

Much like Gaiman's 1602. A real universe with comic book elements shaped to fit it

Its going to be interesting to watch how they merge supernatural with uber-technology without it getting embarrassing.

So uh Bob... when you saw that hammer...did you think this?

"Woa woa woa woa...

STOP... HAMMER TIME!

"

Huh. I was wondering why they didn't show off Mandarin. They have referenced him at least once; Iron Man 1's terrorist group was called The Ten Rings. But yeah, no crazy sorceror. Bah, I want Dr Doom to come back and be a badass technosorceror like he was supposed to be :\

They could work it into some sort of sci-fi realistic setting, maybe. The Tomb Raider movies had a lot of mythological identities while still remaining in the real world.

I don't really agree with your analogy.

Firstly, Iron Man is in the Marvel universe, and so a lot of people would've expected that things like Thor would've joined the show.

The Godfather is not part of a universe like that, and so your analogy is faulty.

Secondly, the avengers movie and the presence of Thor was announced before this film. And so, many would've expected some sort of cameo like this.

I'm not saying it wasn't epic, because it really was. But it wasn't mind-blowing and I firmly believe that it was more about fan-service than actually making audiences unknown to Thor aware of him.

Oh, and I take it that you're talking about Mandarin at the end of your article? He was announced as a possible villain for Iron Man 2 after the first one, and so it was never out of reach for the second installment. Plus, since the gang from the first film was a direct reference to him, he'll probably show up soon.

I look forward to reading this after I have seen Iron Man 2.

Hubilub:
I don't really agree with your analogy...

This is kind of uncomfortable.
You're not aware of the concept called "fun", are you?

I think you're giving Iron Man too much credit on being set in a world anything like our own.

SPOILER!

Remember the scene when Tony created a new element (one he was specificaly trying to create) by hookin up some electric cables and shooting plasma at metal triangle while jumping over a shark? So long laws of the universe, I think Thor will fit right in.

Also he knew by looking at a schematic of an element that does not yet exsist what its properties were and that it would work despite saying earlier that he had to test every permutation of every element.

_Nocturnal:

Hubilub:
I don't really agree with your analogy...

This is kind of uncomfortable.
You're not aware of the concept called "fun", are you?

I think its a valid point

Iron man and Thor would both fit into the Dr. Who universe seemlessly

_Nocturnal:

Hubilub:
I don't really agree with your analogy...

This is kind of uncomfortable.
You're not aware of the concept called "fun", are you?

No, no, this is not comedy. Comedy is funny, hysterical-type things. Antics, damnit! Comedy of error, like the Keystone cops falling down. General wackiness like that. I don't find him funny at all.

See what I did there?

so am I the only one who found it interesting (or at least took note of the fact) that the big-bad of this movie was (essentially) the company "Hammer Industries" and then we're given a viking hammer at the end of the movie to indicate that Thor (and most likely) Avengers are going to happen?

Saw the movie at the premier and loved it. I'll probably see it a couple more times. Guys who put this movie together did a fantastic job!

I'm curious to see how they handle Thor and Asgard. That's always been the one element of the Marvel Universe that I never really thought fit in all that well. But I've read some of the early Thor stuff from before Asgard had even really entered the picture, and I like his character. I also really liked Thor in the Ultimates.

It's funny how Bob pictured the whole imaginary scene in the theater because for the life of it me it was EXACTLY what it happened in the movies 2 days ago. Except I was the overenthusiastic fan whispering "THOR'S FREAKING HAMMER!!" hard enough for people other than my friends and girlfriend to hear it. :P.
Iseem to recall hearing people a few rows ahead of me talking about it as well

BTW: was I the only one to assume the element Tony created was to be called VIBRANIUM? just wiki it.

I really hope the Avengers movie lives up to its hype. Imagine if after all this build-up and speculation it ends up being complete and utter crap. My fanboy heart might not bear it.

twm1709:
BTW: was I the only one to assume the element Tony created was to be called VIBRANIUM? just wiki it.

The funny part is that he had vibranium sitting in his garage the entire time.

Also, with SHIELD finding the shield, this brings up the question of how does Thor get his hammer? Does he go to SHIELD and ask politely? Unless SHIELD gives it to him early in the movie, will he go the majority of the film without his signature weapon?

Aerodyth:

twm1709:
BTW: was I the only one to assume the element Tony created was to be called VIBRANIUM? just wiki it.

The funny part is that he had vibranium sitting in his garage the entire time.

Also, with SHIELD finding the shield, this brings up the question of how does Thor get his hammer? Does he go to SHIELD and ask politely? Unless SHIELD gives it to him early in the movie, will he go the majority of the film without his signature weapon?

My knowledge on the Marvel Thor is a little (ok, VERY)patchy, but if I remember correctly, only Thor can pick it up so its stuck in the crater until he comes and gets it. I'm looking foward to the Thor film as it'll be interesting to see what Kenneth Branagh does considering he's most famous for directing Shakespeare. However, I hope they change the hat design from the comics (or just leave it out) as that really would look stupid!

I stayed to see what the end credits scene wsa going to be and I remembered why I didn't for Iron Man. When did credits suddently become so long?

Plinglebob:

Aerodyth:

twm1709:
BTW: was I the only one to assume the element Tony created was to be called VIBRANIUM? just wiki it.

The funny part is that he had vibranium sitting in his garage the entire time.

Also, with SHIELD finding the shield, this brings up the question of how does Thor get his hammer? Does he go to SHIELD and ask politely? Unless SHIELD gives it to him early in the movie, will he go the majority of the film without his signature weapon?

My knowledge on the Marvel Thor is a little (ok, VERY)patchy, but if I remember correctly, only Thor can pick it up so its stuck in the crater until he comes and gets it.

You're right, Thor is the only being able to lift his hammer (with the exception of a very angry Hulk). Also, his hammer returns to him when called. So if somehow SHIELD did move it to a warehouse or something, all Thor would have to do is call it and it would fly straight to him, through walls and anything else in the way.

we are all missing one big thing here, if the marvel movie universe is like the comic universe then that means there are marvel zombies traveling from realm to realm looking for flesh, and that is one film I do NOT want to see made.

With Mjolnir and a villain named Justin Hammer I was quite disappointed that neither the film nor you made any reference to a certain MC

I wish I could get this excited about stuff. Even about a comic book movie.

Hubilub:
I don't really agree with your analogy.

Firstly, Iron Man is in the Marvel universe, and so a lot of people would've expected that things like Thor would've joined the show.

The Godfather is not part of a universe like that, and so your analogy is faulty.

Secondly, the avengers movie and the presence of Thor was announced before this film. And so, many would've expected some sort of cameo like this.

I'm not saying it wasn't epic, because it really was. But it wasn't mind-blowing and I firmly believe that it was more about fan-service than actually making audiences unknown to Thor aware of him.

Oh, and I take it that you're talking about Mandarin at the end of your article? He was announced as a possible villain for Iron Man 2 after the first one, and so it was never out of reach for the second installment. Plus, since the gang from the first film was a direct reference to him, he'll probably show up soon.

Bob is doing it from the perspective of someone who's never read any marvel crossover comics.

Iron Man is firmly grounded in a technologically high tech world that seemingly has zero magic, demon, angels, gods or aliens or even mutants.(which probally won't happen since X-men are not gonna be apart of the Avengers Universe at the moment.) So showing of a Ancient Hammer like Thor's without explanation isn't something you'd understand right away. (Like if half-way into Zombie Land a UFO crashes in the middle of the road and helps out Little Rock and Tellahassee wouldn't make a ton of sense.)

Now if you have read a Thor Comic or one of his Cross-overs you'd know what's up (If you didn't already from the Internet.) but with the fact that a Norse God is on the scene changes the known limitations of what's capible of happening like Bob said Like how the ARK Light Reactor grants massive amounts of power in a tiny package. Current Science can't do it but Super Science can.

Edit: Not saying you don't know about Thor just that people who don't won't know what's going on as well and could be amazed later.

Could someone post a link to a vid of that Godfather part 2 scene?

Chances are we'll get Mandarin in Iron Man 3, if they'll be another Iron Man. I once read in some magazine, I forget which one, but it had one of the writers of the Iron Man film in it being interviewed, and he explained why Mandarin wasn't in Iron Man or why he wouldn't be in the second movie. He explained it would be like bringing in the Emperor from the Episode VI of the Star Wars films into Episode IV or V. You save the biggest guy of them all for last. However, if that's how it is, I wouldn't be surprised if they save him for the Avengers movie.

i've been quite surprised that in all your iron man and marvel related talks you've never mentioned the possibility of another hulk sequel even though in the incredible hulk we see Hulk's arch-nemesis, The Leader, being created

Hubilub:

Secondly, the avengers movie and the presence of Thor was announced before this film. And so, many would've expected some sort of cameo like this.

I'm not saying it wasn't epic, because it really was. But it wasn't mind-blowing and I firmly believe that it was more about fan-service than actually making audiences unknown to Thor aware of him.

Oh, and I take it that you're talking about Mandarin at the end of your article? He was announced as a possible villain for Iron Man 2 after the first one, and so it was never out of reach for the second installment. Plus, since the gang from the first film was a direct reference to him, he'll probably show up soon.

Nailed it on the head. MovieBob waaay overacted, if he didnt see something like that coming a mile away the he hasnt been a movie critic very long and is oblivious to the Marvel-verse.

And dont compare Ironman to Batman its just wrong, two differnet types of hero's so of course there movies will be completly different. In fact he's whole backing of Ironman2 scares me a little.

Bob is mostly truthful when reviewing movies but he likes to rip into movies I like, The new Star Trek and the new Transformers movies being just a few examples. He does get it right occasionally, Clash of the Titans, but he was overly critcal. I liked Iron Man but that could be the exception not the rule.

Lucane:

Hubilub:
I don't really agree with your analogy.

Firstly, Iron Man is in the Marvel universe, and so a lot of people would've expected that things like Thor would've joined the show.

The Godfather is not part of a universe like that, and so your analogy is faulty.

Secondly, the avengers movie and the presence of Thor was announced before this film. And so, many would've expected some sort of cameo like this.

I'm not saying it wasn't epic, because it really was. But it wasn't mind-blowing and I firmly believe that it was more about fan-service than actually making audiences unknown to Thor aware of him.

Oh, and I take it that you're talking about Mandarin at the end of your article? He was announced as a possible villain for Iron Man 2 after the first one, and so it was never out of reach for the second installment. Plus, since the gang from the first film was a direct reference to him, he'll probably show up soon.

Bob is doing it from the perspective of someone who's never read any marvel crossover comics.

Iron Man is firmly grounded in a technologically high tech world that seemingly has zero magic, demon, angels, gods or aliens or even mutants.(which probally won't happen since X-men are not gonna be apart of the Avengers Universe at the moment.) So showing of a Ancient Hammer like Thor's without explanation isn't something you'd understand right away. (Like if half-way into Zombie Land a UFO crashes in the middle of the road and helps out Little Rock and Tellahassee wouldn't make a ton of sense.)

Now if you have read a Thor Comic or one of his Cross-overs you'd know what's up (If you didn't already from the Internet.) but with the fact that a Norse God is on the scene changes the known limitations of what's capible of happening like Bob said Like how the ARK Light Reactor grants massive amounts of power in a tiny package. Current Science can't do it but Super Science can.

Edit: Not saying you don't know about Thor just that people who don't won't know what's going on as well and could be amazed later.

Well what I'm saying is that showing Thor's hammer after the credits was never meant to confuse people. It was meant as fan-service for people who likes marvel. By now everyone knows that most marvel films have something like that after the credits nowadays. If you didn't know what it was, you'll google it, see that it's Thor, and be indifferent because you don't know about the character.

The Godfather example would have nothing at all to do with Star Wars. It would just be a complete ass pull to do something like that. Nobody would get it, nobody would point back to the Godfather after seeing Star Wars and say "Hey, that's really clever", they would say "Hey, that's fucking stupid and ruined one of the greatest mob films ever due to its stupidity".

It doesn't even make sense if you discard the fact that it's completely random to have a light saber in the ending, because Star Wars is set way ahead of Godfather 2 (remember, a long long loooong time ago), which would just make it even more stupid.

So in short, comparing the after-credits scene in Iron Man 2 to a made-up scene with Robert Duvall finding a light saber does not make any sense whatsoever.

I'm not sure how any sane person could expect an Avengers movie to be anything other than a total disaster. In fact, I'd be willing to lay down money that it winds up being such a fiasco that it effectively sounds the death knell for comic book movies for a good decade. Which is not necessarily a bad thing.

Aerodyth:
The funny part is that he had vibranium sitting in his garage the entire time.

Well, he has something that resembles Captain America's shield. That doesn't mean that it's the shield though. More likely they'll spin it that it's a prototype Stark made, and retrofit it into the original shield. Stark "upgraded" the shield a few different times over the years, so it would make sense.

Also, with SHIELD finding the shield, this brings up the question of how does Thor get his hammer? Does he go to SHIELD and ask politely? Unless SHIELD gives it to him early in the movie, will he go the majority of the film without his signature weapon?

It depends on which Thor origin they base it on. If it's the original, a 'human' picks up the hammer and discovers that they're actually Thor (sent to earth by Odin to learn humility). Ultimate Thor, on the other hand, just kind of came with the hammer, and doesn't have a human alter-ego. With few exceptions, characters that are not Thor can't pick up the hammer.

I suspect they'll be going with some hybrid of the two, leaning towards the latter version - that's what Iron Man seems to imply. The 'Avenger Initiative' as being put together by Samuel L. Fury seems to line up a lot more with the Ultimates than the classic Avengers.

Dr. Dan Challis:
I'm not sure how any sane person could expect an Avengers movie to be anything other than a total disaster. In fact, I'd be willing to lay down money that it winds up being such a fiasco that it effectively sounds the death knell for comic book movies for a good decade. Which is not necessarily a bad thing.

Comic book movies already had a decade long death knell. It was called Batman & Robin. I'm not sure how any sane person could just completely right off a movie thats at least three years away from being made, especially when you consider what studio is behind it all.

Well, I might be more impressed by the sheer boldness of the whole thing if Spider-man 3 hadn't dropped an alien in the middle of what was otherwise a fairly sci-fiesque superhero movie about science experiments gone wrong and all anybody could talk about at the end was the lousy dance scene.

I mean, you'd expect the one character that belonged into an entirely different genre to at least get a passing remark from non-comic book geek critics and audiences, but nope. It's Venom. It's an alien symbionte thing. Who cares.

The truth is superhero movies are their own genre, and they're all about things that aren't real. We geeks like to think Iron Man is this sci-fi romp with robot-like armor and mad scientists, but it's not. It's a superhero movie. Iron Man is not a piece of technology, it's a superpower. It's flying and shooting energy beams and having superstrength, and it's basically interchangeable with being a mutant or being bitten by a powers-giving spider.

In fact, and this is the ultimate proof that this is true, Batman has superpowers, as far as your average moviegoer is concerned. It may be blasphemy for the discerning geek, but once Bruce Wayne is in the suit, he will magically win every hand to hand fight he gets into. It's not even an option that he loses. His superpower is to punch people into submission. All that work into setting him up as a ninja in Batman Begins? Not necessary. All you need is the suit. People didn't believe less that Batman could kick people's asses in Batman Returns than in The Dark Knight. It's a superhero movie. Superheroes win fights. Period.

So no, Thor's hammer changes nothing. It's just another power-granting item, basically a McGuffin for superhuman action sequences and some light social commentary. And we're all fine with that, at least if done well.

Aerodyth:

twm1709:
BTW: was I the only one to assume the element Tony created was to be called VIBRANIUM? just wiki it.

The funny part is that he had vibranium sitting in his garage the entire time.

Also, with SHIELD finding the shield, this brings up the question of how does Thor get his hammer? Does he go to SHIELD and ask politely? Unless SHIELD gives it to him early in the movie, will he go the majority of the film without his signature weapon?

In no particular order...

- I could be wrong, but I think people are misinterpreting the "shield" joke in this, i.e. I don't think that's ACTUALLY supposed to be Captain America's shield. In the first movie, there was a random object on Stark's desk that the internet thought was the shield because it kinda looked like it in freeze-frame. In IM2, if you look at the way the scene is timed, it seems like it was meant to be a fake-out - i.e. the agent holds up that same random object, Stark goes "that's it!!!" drumroll... and then they use it to prop up the dohickey. "Gotcha!" I think it's just a bit of fun being had at the expense of people who've been clue-hunting like mad ever since that big S.H.I.E.L.D. crate turned up. Speaking of which...

- ...It actually looks like the shield "joke" is distracting people from what could be a HUGE reveal a few scenes earlier. Nick Fury says he knew Howard Stark because he helped found S.H.I.E.L.D. Howard Stark who's been dead for several decades. How OLD is Nick Fury? See, here's the thing: the LOOK of this guy is based on the "Ultimate" Nick Fury, who's just a regular (albeit badass and well-connected) guy, but the majority of the story/character beats for all the Avengers-related movies so far have drawn more from the "normal" Marvel universe... and in THAT world, Nick Fury is IMMORTAL (he takes a serum, it's complicated) and has been around doing hero-stuff since at least WWII, where he was the leader of a special-ops army team called "The Howling Commandos." Said Commandos, in some form, are supposed to turn up somewhere in the Captain America movie. So is Jackson, but everyone assumed he'd be at the end in the "present" or in setting up a flashback... but maybe he'll just be "there?" I dunno.

- These movies don't all take place in "order" thus-far, so I imagine that Mjolnir being in a crater is the result of something that happens in the middle or at the END of "Thor." For example, if you look quick during the scene with Fury at the end of IM2, you'll see that one of the TVs is tuned to a live news report from Culver University, which is where the big midpoint battle from "Incredible Hulk" took place. So, apparently, most of Hulk happens in between the last hour or so of IM2 and it's own Stark-cameo.

- The "rules" in regular Marvel are that only Thor or someone who's just as "worthy" can lift the hammer, though sometimes noble can be superceded by "really, really strong." Captain America can lift it, as can various other Thor god characters, and a few others. I think in one of the inter-company crossover thingees, they had Wonder Woman do it, as well (I seem to remember in the same "event" that Superman COULDN'T do it, but then could once Thor "let him."

Calling it now: the Avengers movie cancelled due to budget issues.

Noelveiga:
The truth is superhero movies are their own genre, and they're all about things that aren't real. We geeks like to think Iron Man is this sci-fi romp with robot-like armor and mad scientists, but it's not. It's a superhero movie. Iron Man is not a piece of technology, it's a superpower. It's flying and shooting energy beams and having superstrength, and it's basically interchangeable with being a mutant or being bitten by a powers-giving spider.

Exactly.

This is like the second or third article about how sticking Iron Man and Thor in the same movie is going to alter the very concept of genre, even though they've long been together in one superhero "universe" and most superhero fiction combines magical faux-science, technology-that-works-like-magic, and straight-up magic all the time. One might as well gush about the exciting genre-defying qualities of the Great Gazoo.

-- Alex

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