Three Reasons for Robin

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Three Reasons for Robin

Why MovieBob wants the Dynamic Duo reunited.

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I completly, totally, and fully agree.

There really is no reason they cant fit Robin in the Nolanverse. And if they want the third film to at least do good, since it will never be anywhere near as successful as TDK, that's really the only thing they can do unless another cast member dies.

I really liked this post, and I totally agree. I was also going to mention that the current main bat-series is called Batman and Robin, and has a much lighter campier tone while still being fairly serious. That's what Morrison was going for. It's also good to mention for the un-initiated that in the comics right now, The first Robin is Batman, and he's doing a damn good job.

To be honest, I agree that Robin should be in the next Batman movie. The previous two have been about Bruce Wayne moving beyond what he wants to become a symbol (or a performance, if you want to get all metafiction) that people need to realize what is right and wrong. What better way to cap off his transition from flesh-and-blood man to a modern mythological hero than to take someone under his wing, who can also carry on his legacy in the way that the flesh-and-blood Harvey Dent could not? And it can certainly tie into the other themes of Nolan's films in very interesting ways.

i also agree. robin was probably the most human element in batman. otherwise it would be just "the adventures of Mr scowl and his incredible belt". robin shows the humanity in the comic book world. unlike all the heroes in the comic book universe all the robins were actually effected by the world around them. the first robin grew up and did his own thing and became a batman knock off, the second died a horrible death which left batman with a deep source of grief and the last one i think eventually killing the joker only to eventually unknowingly become the joker of the future. kind of badass.

Anyone besides me liked Batman Beyond? My friends (Like me) are into DC comics and batman but I'm the only one who liked this incarnation of the franchise.

Anyway, back on topic. I agree 100% Robin should show up in the next movie.

Way to remind me of the grossness that is the Human Centipede.

Agreed with you last time, agreeing with you this time.

To rephrase my opinions on the matter from last time, I think a lot of the problem people have is that they believe Batman can't be gritty if he's got Robin, whereas I think this is provably untrue. The naysayers point to Batman & Robin, Batman Forever etc, but in my experience that's because they haven't read some of the comic books, like Dark Victory. Anyone who can read Dark Victory and say that it's an upbeat novel is clearly the sort of person who begins each day with genital mutilation.

Also, Death in the Family, one of the most highly regarded of all the Batman stories, is focused entirely around the development of Jason Todd, leading to his eventual (You should know this by now) death. Dick Grayson was introduced with his parents brutal murder by a mob boss, Tim Drake's father gets murdered, his mother gets mrudered, his girlfriend gets murdered, and then Batman seemingly dies and there's a massive scuffle over who gets the cowl, these are not light and fluffy plotlines.

I don't just think there's room for Robin, I agree that there's a need for Robin. Batman alone is a borderline psychopath, Robin brings him back from that brink (another thing which is explicitly commented on in not just one but several comic books.) Also, remember Ra's Al Ghul's little demotivational speech about Bruce's father failing to act? Robin in any incarnation gives Batman the chance to be the father who did act to stop the violence, so it even makes sense in-universe. There's nothing inherently comical about Robin just because he wears a circus highwire costume and makes the occasional joke (again, really not something he does in Dark Victory). It's all in the treatment, and if Christopher Nolan honestly couldn't handle Robin right then it's his failing as a director, not the character's failing (and also the writer's fault for not writing him right, casting department etc.) And for the record, so I don't get misquoted, I think C Nolan could handle Robin, it's just that he doesn't want to because he's hit upon the dark and gritty market, so he's not really pushing any limits with the films.

Overall, I know Robin won't be in the third movie of this remake (both Nolan and Bale have stated they'd walk out if it happened), but I think he should be, and I think if he was handled well, he could prove to be just as much as a surprising character as this new interpretation of the Joker was. Because remember how everyone said Heath Ledger was going to be awful? Remember how that turned out? There is nothing at all to say that adding Robin couldn't be just as good.

TL;DR: Batman needs Robin to stay sane, and Tim Drake was the most awesome Robin ever.

I was adamantly opposed to the idea of Robin appearing in another Batman film in my lifetime, and in three pages Bob changes my mind...

One thing I would love to see in the next Nolan movie however, is Harley Quinn, it's about time she made her film debut. Not as a main villain, but just crop up in the first act as a Joker copycat, obsessed with the image of the character despite having never met him (rather than the traditional girlfriend/sidekick approach) but played more sympathetically, like an emotionally fragile teenager.

Rather than be a new threat for Batman to overcome, she would represent the lasting effect that Joker has had on Gotham, hell I'd even be happy to see her spend more screen time in counselling than in costume.

Just a thought.

Ah, Robin, Robin Hood, I see what you did there!

Anyway, this is all pretty good arguments, and I would agree that the whole darkness phase is over, some of the best moments in Iron Man 2 came from RDJr's humour. So yeah, Batman does need to lighten up, because as you mentioned, he's actually starting to look completly ridiculous, not the "Holy **** it's Batman" message Batman is aiming for. And I wouldn't worry about the whole "They'll cast Justin Bieber or whatever" stuff people say, as Chris Nolan as big enough now that he'll be able to just tell the studio's where they can stuff it.

My problem lies with the simple thing about Robin. He's Robin! He dresses up in green tights with a red unitard and his mask consists of a piece of fabric on his face. He looks ridiculous. More than that the premise is that an orphan is recruited by Batman to fight crime in the afformentioned outfit. It sounds silly when you consider Batman is on a lone mission, doesn't want anyone to get hurt (As Kevin Conroy said in Gotham Knight "I'm willing to put my life on the line, but only my life.") and wouldn't want a kid working with him, before you even think what the Commisioner would think of the situation.

If you got Robin on board while getting around the stupid premise I'd be all for it you'd gain all of your benefits, but that still raises the question of getting around the problem.

Dok Zombie:
I was adamantly opposed to the idea of Robin appearing in another Batman film in my lifetime, and in three pages Bob changes my mind...

Same thing happened to me. I can't stand Robin - thank you, Chris O'Donnell - but it's hard to fault Bob's logic at all. Plus, this line:

"Looking at that, does anyone think the sequel is simply going to skew darker? I mean, the only way it could even get darker is if the movie ends with Batman slitting his wrists in the bathtub while listening to a vinyl of Die Fledermousse."

just killed me.

Meh, it could work, and it could work really well if it does work... but this is Hollywood, this is the third movie in a series that's making tons of money, we might have gotten lucky with the first two being mostly unmeddled with by big shot producers who only want to make money, but I don't think we're going to be so lucky with number three.

Sadly, history proves me right, too; Spider Man 3, X-Men 3, Superman 3, all the victims of producers stepping in and telling everybody what to do instead of trusting them to make a good movie on their own, hell, even the first series of Batman films had a misstep with number 3, which actually did introduce Robin... as a whiny as hell 25 year old, who was so poorly written that you could almost replace all his dialogue as "Wah! Wah! Wah!" and it would fit in the movie about as well as his actual dialogue did. (and I LIKED that movie, it was campy fun done right, unlike the utter mess that was Batman and Robin)

Like I said, it could totally be done right, and if it was done right it could make for a better film than even The Dark Knight... but history says otherwise, and I'm gonna agree until I see some evidence that says Nolan can fight off the producers long enough to make another good movie.

I'd love to see that party scene in the next I'm a Marvel/I'm a DC.

Wow, a Swing Kids reference. Moviebob, you rock.

Also, yeah, bring in Robin. But a good Robin, not a nearing 30ish actor to play a teenage acrobat. Find a 13 year old, one who actually could be believed as needing to be placed under adoption when his parents die. Or fuck Grayson, bring in Tim Drake.

I hate the fact that Nolan and Bale refuse to put Robin in there. They shouldn't ignore a character so utterly important to the mythos.

As a side note, I wouldn't say it was to move to darker stories that almost killed comics in the 90s. What happened is people noticed that old comics were now worth ridiculous amounts of money, so they started buying new ones in bulk in hopes to get rich after a couple decades. To respond to this, the comic publishers started printing their books in massive orders with all sorts of crazy special editions (this is where those multiple covers and foil covers bs comes from). Eventually, consumers realized that old comics were worth a lot because they were rare, while these ones they just bought were worthless because there were so many of them. So people stopped buying comics, but the publishers were still left with these massive orders. Lots of comics printed + no one buying them = near bankruptcy for comics.

I'm 18 years old so the first contact I had with Robin in a Batman movie was, well, Batman and Robin. Naive as I was back then, I didn't realize what was wrong about that movie. Still, I liked the Robin on the Teen Titans series on Cartoon Network. He was a good mixture of being pushed to the edge, mostly involving Slade (voiced awesomely by Ron Perlman), but he also had some more tame, human moments, like whenever he was hanging around Starfire. I would like to see some variation on that on the new Batman movies.

Not to be a parrot but I'm with you on this one Bob. I just hope they don't make him too... well camp, though Nolan's done a good job of avoiding that so far... I guess there's nothing to worry about. Also I think it would fit with the comics. Batman Begins was pretty much a live action re-telling of Batman: Year One, The Dark Knight borrowed more that a couple elements from Batman: The Long Halloween, now it would fit pretty well with the movie series to follow through with Dark Victory and allow us to have a Robin. The third Batman is supposed to be the last of the Nolan series so it would be nice for him to end it with our Robin. I'm also interested in how Nolan would do Robin with his serious movies?.

Now i always been a fan of robin, but the pictures you chose will probably do more harm than good. showing the worst dipictions of robin is not a strong way to build confidence in your words. unless you were speaking sarcasticly in which case that was a really douche thing to do.

Point of mine though is robin should be in the Batman movies but for this artical i would chose better pics, such as batman holding the lifeless body of robin after being killed by joker, something from teen titans, or maybe a cool pic from the comics. Robin from the worst batman movie (ever) and robin from the crazy old batman movie only invokes memories of a really bad movie and the line "holy snickerdoodles batman!"

But i'm a guttersnipe and your a published writer, so what do i know?

You know, I've never really liked Robin, but you make a really convincing argument. And yeah... Batman needs to take yoga lessons or something. I have this image of my head of the club fight scene in the middle of the movie where he's just grabbing people and elbowing them over and over again... :(

moviebob:
A younger, more agile partner with an acrobatics background would add dynamic oomph to fight scenes that - let's face it - aren't exactly terrific thanks to the insistence on the armored Batsuit look.

I read that & the first thought I had was of that scene in The Lost World that I dare not mention because it single-handedly ruined the film. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO !!!!!!

If Nolan & co. can write Robin into the story in a tasteful way, then by all means they should do it.

However, I'm going to have to insist that they go the way of Batman: the Animated Series and make Robin a late-age teenager. To me, putting a straight-up kid (a la Hit Girl) into Nolan's Gotham wouldn't feel right.

I think if they were gonna go this route, they should cast someone like Joseph Gordon-Levitt in the role. Thinking about that animated series Dick Grayson, who was between the ages of 18-24, JGL would be a perfect match.

Dark Templar:
Anyone besides me liked Batman Beyond? My friends (Like me) are into DC comics and batman but I'm the only one who liked this incarnation of the franchise.

Anyway, back on topic. I agree 100% Robin should show up in the next movie.

They're starting a run of Batman Beyond comics in June. You'd probably like it.

Robin, if portrayed well, can make the next Batman movie much more interesting and fun. done wrong however, and we can end out with another Batman&Robin (and god knows we don't want that).
Oh crap, I just realized that they might get Shia Labeouf to play Robin! Run for the hills, the end is nigh!

I would like to see Robin added, only if they actually make the character feel like part of the movie. In that last incarnation of the Batman movie franchise where they had Robin, he just felt tacked on and more like an annoying little kid than any help whatsoever to the movie.
I am all for adding Robin to the mix, so long as they make him a useful part of the team. Sadly though, they haven't provided many clues towards there being a Robin included in the next movie so they'd almost have to pull him out of thin air for this to happen. Still, I think he could make this last Batman a decent one if done right.

I had no idea you had gotten so much flak from your Losers review. I thought it was a great idea (I had just watched Kick Ass before I saw it).

I think Robin would have seemed a bit out-of-place in the Dark Knight, but since he hasn't shown up in any of the movies for so long that's probably what they intended.

But, when I think of bringing him back I think of the show Teen Titans. In that one, Robin is a leader, he's well grounded but also has moments of volatility, and he's an exciting fighter. If they brought Robin back in that type of character, where he's a ground for Batman but also looking out for him at the same time, I'd be more than happy to watch it.

Imagine:

Batman is nearly overwhelmed by the band of thugs. The leader is laughing already as he can almost taste his victory. Then, just as his men close in on the Batman a huge crash is heard and dust and debris fill the room.

The Batmobile skids to a halt in the room, the hatch opens and reveals a masked teenage boy. One thug jumps onto the vehicle and is swiftly dispatched by the young man, as he wields his quarterstaff with strenth and ease...

The villains are swiftly defeated by the Duo.

"I told you to stay behind." Batman tells his companion.

"You needed the help." Robin replies snidely.

Yeah, I think that could work. But I think he's also due for a costume update.

My problem isn't with Robin, it's with Dick Grayson. While Robin may fit well into a new Batman film, Grayson, and particularly his origin, would really stick out like a sore thumb. The 'lone survivor of a fatal circus mishap taken in by Bruce Wayne' backstory really goes against the overall tone of the movie.

Fortunately, there's more then one Robin.

Tim Drake, the third Robin, would probably make for an ideal choice. He's a bright young man who actually does really enjoy being a superhero, although he doesn't see himself doing it forever. His father was a small-time crook who ended up getting killed, and he, too, found himself adopted into the Wayne family and wearing the red and black Robin costume.

Damien Wayne is another idea, and a character that could actually be worked into the plot threads left over from Batman Begins. See, his story is that he is Bruce Wayne's son, having spent his early life with his mother, Talia Al-Ghul, learning to be an assassin and a certifiable master of whoop-ass. That could dovetail right into the ninja mountain deal from Begins.

Also, historically, there have been at least two female Robins should that seem more appealing (if, you know, Nolan were interested in going full Hit-Girl on this). One was Stephanie Brown, the daughter of a second-rate supervillain who took over the mantle of Robin briefly (and is currently Batgirl), and an alternate continuity Robin from the Dark Knight Returns, a girl named Carrie Kelly whose parents are amazingly inattentive, and who started going out and fighting crime simply for the fun of it.

So, yeah. Lots of choice here, if we want to skip over the circus shenanigans.

saintchristopher:

Dark Templar:
Anyone besides me liked Batman Beyond? My friends (Like me) are into DC comics and batman but I'm the only one who liked this incarnation of the franchise.

Anyway, back on topic. I agree 100% Robin should show up in the next movie.

They're starting a run of Batman Beyond comics in June. You'd probably like it.

YaY :D

Oh, while we are on the subject of robin, I think they could add him into the next movie pretty easy. Maybe they show his family getting murdered by.....someone....and then have robin wandering the city in his circus costume hunting down the culprit bent on revenge so that batman can steer him down the right path or something....

Would be a convenient way to add him and add motivation to go after whatever villain they add for the next movie. OH I bet Ra's al Ghul would be a great bad guy to add at this point.

Edited cause of brain fart for a sec there.

Since Nolan is so opposed to the idea of Robin this all sadly seems beside the point as he won't be in the next one anyway. They could always go with the other sidekick, Batgirl. That way they can keep the dark, gritty feel if they also give us her change to Oracle. Actually, if they did that it may well trump the level of darkness in TDK.

Failing that, just give us Ace.

Batman Beyond was fucking awesome.

...er...

And I actually think Bob makes great points and if Nolan can slip Robin in without futzing it up, then all power to him.

Plus if the Batman franchise is going to live on after this installment, they need to do a drastic turn from the realism aspects. I'm not sure how they'll do this probably slowly, a villain like Mr. Freeze, Dr. Destiny, or Poison Ivy would be a nice little science fiction turn, or hell do Dr. Hurt, the character is only 2 years old. But back to Robin and all that, the Bat-family would be another way to drive this franchise for a long time. You add in Dick Grayson, and now you have potential for him to become Nightwing, then Jason Todd to give batman continued motivation to be Batman. (Let's face it one of the differences between Batman and Wolverine is that Batman actually gets new stuff to be brooding about). After Jason you have Tim and Damian, not to mention other players, Batgirl (Barbara Gordon obviously), Huntress etc... The more characters you have around him the more interesting Batman becomes.

But I think Nolan is driven to his idea that this is a young realistic Batman, so odds are this will be his last movie, and then the Batman franchise will have to get Spidermaned (Rebooted yet again). Fortunately DC was smart for hiring Grant Morrison, Geoff Johns, and Marv Wolfman as consultants on all of their movies. Not to mention the DC Entertainment top brass are all comic creators, who all seem to have a lot to do with the movies; so hopefully we won't end up with a horrible reboot of Batman in the vein that some spidey fans are dreading.

Well, it's interesting. I like Robin in the comics, because I honestly think he has the best story. I mean, the kid grows up and becomes Nightwing, and has an affair with an orange alien woman in the process. Cool. However, The Dark Knight was extremely popular and brought in tons of money, and I almost see it getting the treatment I kind of see in the God of War series. That is, Marketing or whoever recognizing what sells about the product, then ramping up the dial to a ridiculous degree. It's possible that the grittiness in the next Batman movie will attempt to be even greater, and would probably just come off as silly.

I do want to see Robin. I don't want an extremely gritty twist on his story, because I think it works very well. I am interested to see how they could spice it up, though. But I heard, don't quote me on this, that Nolan would only do another Batman if there was no Robin anywhere to be found. Could anyone shed some light on how much truth is in that, or why he'd say so, if he did?

Also, thanks Moviebob, you've done an awful lot to push me to think about the movies I see, rather than always take them at face value.

The only problem with this is Dick Grayson's origin story which quite frankly doesn't work with the current build of Batman we have. And even Tim Drake's origin specifically requires a previous Robin for him to replace so unless you completely rewrite the origin story for robin then you sort of have to avoid him or devote the entire movie to giving Bat's the necessary character development to actually take a Robin under his wing.
However, co-opting the origin of, or just plan using, another character's origin could work. Take Batgirl/Barbabra Gordon. She is the niece of Jim Gordon who chooses to copy Batman and be his sidekick independently of any outside encouragement. She just shows up and sort of forces Batman to accept her and in some stories actually considers herself more of a freelancer as opposed to Tim and Drake being handpicked and personally trained by the Batman. Basically, the sidekick for Batman3 is going to have to be self motivated because right now it would be irresponsible and against Batman's character to risk a kids life in his war on crime while dodging the police. Maybe after a sidekick forces themselves into the fight would Batman even consider bringing in a Robin.
I'm not saying Robin couldn't work. It's just that to bring him in without destroying the character of Batman or Robin would be incredibly difficult and almost preclude other characters from being used in later films

Reading this reminds me of how stupid the ending of The Dark Knight is. Not only would it have made much more sense for Batman to have blamed Two-Face's actions on the Joker, it would of hammered in the fact that the Joker succeeded 100% in demeaning someone to his own level.

In the current version, Gotham's symbol of justice has been compromised (the world thinks he is now a serial killer) for no adequate reason. It is the most significant plot hole (of many) in the movie, because it dictates how the sequel will turn out: It will be some tedious story in which the superhero has to prove to the world that he isn't a bad guy. Kind of boring, since we already know he isn't a bad guy. Plus the Spiderman films have already gone with that exact same plot in every movie.

I don't think Robin would fit in with the story that Chris Nolan is telling with what will ultimately a trilogy, though if he did I think Jason Todd would fit better with what he is trying to do than Dick Grayson.

Rhino of Steel:
Since Nolan is so opposed to the idea of Robin this all sadly seems beside the point as he won't be in the next one anyway. They could always go with the other sidekick, Batgirl. That way they can keep the dark, gritty feel if they also give us her change to Oracle. Actually, if they did that it may well trump the level of darkness in TDK.

Failing that, just give us Ace.

Wait... why has nobody suggested this yet? Batgirl has all the qualities of Robin that people have listed, with the added interest of Oracle.

THIS MAN TALKS SENSE!

It's perfect, we've already seen the Gordon kids in TDK, the next film could be set years later, with Batman as an established figure in Gotham city, and he takes her under his wing, only for her to be paralysed in the line of duty, leaving Batman feeling guilty for it.

*Shameless self-plug in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...*

AAAAND, combine this with my Harley Quinn idea (see above) and you have a great theme of hero-worship going awry and the impressionable effect that characters like Batman and Joker have on young people.

Screw Nolan, me and you will make this movie!

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