Three Reasons for Robin

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Okay, here's the one of the few ways I really see this working.

We use Batgirl's basic origin for the intro to our (for lack of a better term "sidekick"). While not necessarily Barbara Gordon she beats out any of the Robins purely because I've seen too many father-son relationships and not enough father-daughter, plus I want to see Hit-girl/Big Daddy done seriously. Now, from a story perspective, Batman needs an external force to lift up out of the crap that TDK left him in and no one currently in the series is in any position to do that.(Alfred is a lying to Bruce about Rachel, Fox is on his way out, and Gordon is under siege from his own corrupt police force and is hunting Batman) That's where our "sidekick" comes in. They bring in some light hope and happiness into the Batman's nightly prowling and, most importantly, can actually be threatened. I mean, let's face it, Batman is so physically capable (beating down BOTH SWAT and a gang at the same time with no human deaths, taking bullets to the gut, kidnapping a VIP out of China) that nothing can really threaten him in the eyes of the audience, but an untrained and untested sidekick would be in actual peril in even the simplest of scuffles. Batgirl/Robin would be independent of Batman, making their gear from scratch and writing their own rules. Batman catches them several times but never convinces them to stop and they slowly warm themselves up to him. For an actual example of how this would be done watch the entire third season of The Batman (the post-BTAS with slight anime stylings). Basically shows the evolution of Batgirl from annoying and in-the-way to independent a capable hero.

The villain would have to be one of Bat's ladies since he needs a good replacement for Rachel and their are no good gals to really pull from. Catwoman's simple thief who doesn't really hurt anyone could work and we all can imagine that. Drop the previous affair and possibly her daddy's name and Talia 'al Ghul also works by bring back the League of Shadows. And pair up perfectly with her would be Poison Ivy. Of course, Ivy would have to be reduced to a very pretty man-hating eco-terrorist lacking any actual powers just some potent chemical and biological weapons and a massive desire to use them on Gotham. Rounding off the possible villains are a Riddler played by David Tennant (not Depp, we want quirky smart not insane gibbering), Penguin as the new boss of the underworld (played by Phillip Seymour Hoffman), Black Mask basically lifted as is from the comics, or a much more cerebral Bane (think Joker smart and physical equal to Batman). Hush, Mad Hatter, Zsasz, and other relatively normal bad guys require a little too much back story or lack the appropriate dramatic gravitas to really work for a whole movie. On a side note, that Robin origin movie idea would match up great with the likes of Calender Man.

Basic plot goes:
Batman running around getting beat up barely holding the city and himself together
Batman inspires sidekick to become hero
New villain shows up an attacks city
New sidekick builds up skills and tools to start off with (Think compressed Batman Begins)
Batman and sidekick meet, Batman disapproves
Villain attacks in earnest
Sidekick proves self to Batman as a better writer with more time takes villain vs Batman vs Cops to whatever conclusion the Nolan's want to bring it to

You know, if they were worried about Robin's costume issues, I wonder if they would consider using the Red Robin costume that Tim Drake has been using lately, originally introduced in Kingdom Come I think. It would be a departure from established comics reasoning and characterization, but the movies have kind of already veered off on their own storytelling arcs.

Also, everyone arguing that Robin doesn't fit in the realistic world setting of these movies, you can't have read many actual Batman comics. Either that or you haven't properly internalized the themes. Frank Miller, one of the most obsessively and ludicrously grimdark comic writers in the world introduced the first female Robin.

gartoo:
Okay, here's the one of the few ways I really see this working.

We use Batgirl's basic origin for the intro to our (for lack of a better term "sidekick"). While not necessarily Barbara Gordon she beats out any of the Robins purely because I've seen too many father-son relationships and not enough father-daughter, plus I want to see Hit-girl/Big Daddy done seriously. Now, from a story perspective, Batman needs an external force to lift up out of the crap that TDK left him in and no one currently in the series is in any position to do that.(Alfred is a lying to Bruce about Rachel, Fox is on his way out, and Gordon is under siege from his own corrupt police force and is hunting Batman) That's where our "sidekick" comes in. They bring in some light hope and happiness into the Batman's nightly prowling and, most importantly, can actually be threatened. I mean, let's face it, Batman is so physically capable (beating down BOTH SWAT and a gang at the same time with no human deaths, taking bullets to the gut, kidnapping a VIP out of China) that nothing can really threaten him in the eyes of the audience, but an untrained and untested sidekick would be in actual peril in even the simplest of scuffles. Batgirl/Robin would be independent of Batman, making their gear from scratch and writing their own rules. Batman catches them several times but never convinces them to stop and they slowly warm themselves up to him. For an actual example of how this would be done watch the entire third season of The Batman (the post-BTAS with slight anime stylings). Basically shows the evolution of Batgirl from annoying and in-the-way to independent a capable hero.

The villain would have to be one of Bat's ladies since he needs a good replacement for Rachel and their are no good gals to really pull from. Catwoman's simple thief who doesn't really hurt anyone could work and we all can imagine that. Drop the previous affair and possibly her daddy's name and Talia 'al Ghul also works by bring back the League of Shadows. And pair up perfectly with her would be Poison Ivy. Of course, Ivy would have to be reduced to a very pretty man-hating eco-terrorist lacking any actual powers just some potent chemical and biological weapons and a massive desire to use them on Gotham. Rounding off the possible villains are a Riddler played by David Tennant (not Depp, we want quirky smart not insane gibbering), Penguin as the new boss of the underworld (played by Phillip Seymour Hoffman), Black Mask basically lifted as is from the comics, or a much more cerebral Bane (think Joker smart and physical equal to Batman). Hush, Mad Hatter, Zsasz, and other relatively normal bad guys require a little too much back story or lack the appropriate dramatic gravitas to really work for a whole movie. On a side note, that Robin origin movie idea would match up great with the likes of Calender Man.

Basic plot goes:
Batman running around getting beat up barely holding the city and himself together
Batman inspires sidekick to become hero
New villain shows up an attacks city
New sidekick builds up skills and tools to start off with (Think compressed Batman Begins)
Batman and sidekick meet, Batman disapproves
Villain attacks in earnest
Sidekick proves self to Batman as a better writer with more time takes villain vs Batman vs Cops to whatever conclusion the Nolan's want to bring it to

I'd watch that!

whats really weird is that i skipped to page three and say in italics the human centipede, i saw this mentioned on facebook earlier today and looked it up, was horrified, then realised it was (pun intended) a crappy horror movie. I wish i hadnt ever saw it but since i read this i guess i would have had to know about it eventually. just a freakish occurrence for me.

OT:i think that shia lebeouf should play robin

Not a huge robin fan, and hell i just registered to get this off my chest. Robin would not work in nolan's universe well at all.

Why let us look at hit girl and why she worked in kick ass. while kick ass in many ways was a good portrayal of what if super heroes really existed the problems they would have hell even big daddys fight scene was pretty gritty and what a real batman would look like in action, with heavy armor, guns, grenades etc etc. hit girl was so over the top is why she worked. she could run up walls, jump about 5 feet into the air, dodge bullets fired at her head in the big end fight scenes, and cursed like a gang banger.

nolans universe is very grounded in context of the fights, batman is a ninja with some cqc martial arts style grounded in real life martial arts. the new improved bat suit allows greater movement which allows them to do the big hong kong fight scene and batman is fairly mobile and athletic, but he is still not doing any superhuman judo martial arts magic mumbo jumbo leaps and kicks.

what would a robin do in a nolan film? fighting armed mobsters, psychotic clowns, murderous men with half their faces burnt off, and whoever shows up in the 3rd act. keeping with the rest of the films style, a child would mostly get the living hell beat out of them. without the wire assists a hit girl had, and the above average speed hit girl had, assuming he would have to wear body armor like batman not to have a few rounds put in his chest or his head blown off, how is a little kid say 10 to 16 years old range supposed to go toe to toe with guys with guns, longer reach, and much greater strength.

camp is dead, batman is not a happy crime fighter nor does he work particularly well as one. he is traumatized by seeing his parents death to the point he becomes obsessed with stopping crime and dedicates his entire existence to it. he has a bevy of women he has sex with but avoids close personal relationships with an almost neurotic dillgence. he is sarcastic and not very talkative to even his friends like alfred, superman, etc. he hardly ever get chummy with anyone, since he knows he is the last and best line of defense in almost any situation he really cannot afford personal ties to the degree that a normal human being would have.

does this really sound like the person who should be raising a child? lol nevermind putting them out on the streets of arguably the most dangerous city to ever exist, in tights.

yea there are great batman and robin stories, batman the animated series, which some of the writers are doing batman AA and its follow up. had some of the best bats writing and characters of any series cartoon or comic. still btas had a full season of loner batman that worked perfectly well, it was not until the second or third season where robin was introduced. and it was done very well robin was not campy or annoying.

still it is a lot easier to make robin viable in a comic or cartoon, is robin an integral part of the batman mythos? partially some of the greatest fails of batmans life was putting young boys and girls in the sidekick role, there is alot of tragic drama to be had there if any movie had the guts to show joker torturing, beating to death a child because he is batmans ally, making batman face that, and try to push batman over that fine edge he walks.

but you can create that drama in nolans batman without a robin period, and it is alot easier for it to happen to an adult as opposed to trying to depict a child in the same situations or dead at the hand of a mainiac.

and batman the brave and the bold is the worst piece of shit to ever grace tv, with the possible exception of the movie batman and robin and the 70s tv show. many of us older bat fans hate the camp, care less for the silver age camp in the comics, and perfer our batmen brooding and dark.

Robin is an ex-circus performer in colourful clothing helping a brutal vigilante wearing grey and black, he is a neccesary juxtaposition that counterpoints the darkness and violence with a sense of inocence an levity

gartoo:
Okay, here's the one of the few ways I really see this working.

We use Batgirl's basic origin for the intro to our (for lack of a better term "sidekick"). While not necessarily Barbara Gordon she beats out any of the Robins purely because I've seen too many father-son relationships and not enough father-daughter, plus I want to see Hit-girl/Big Daddy done seriously. Now, from a story perspective, Batman needs an external force to lift up out of the crap that TDK left him in and no one currently in the series is in any position to do that.(Alfred is a lying to Bruce about Rachel, Fox is on his way out, and Gordon is under siege from his own corrupt police force and is hunting Batman) That's where our "sidekick" comes in. They bring in some light hope and happiness into the Batman's nightly prowling and, most importantly, can actually be threatened. I mean, let's face it, Batman is so physically capable (beating down BOTH SWAT and a gang at the same time with no human deaths, taking bullets to the gut, kidnapping a VIP out of China) that nothing can really threaten him in the eyes of the audience, but an untrained and untested sidekick would be in actual peril in even the simplest of scuffles. Batgirl/Robin would be independent of Batman, making their gear from scratch and writing their own rules. Batman catches them several times but never convinces them to stop and they slowly warm themselves up to him. For an actual example of how this would be done watch the entire third season of The Batman (the post-BTAS with slight anime stylings). Basically shows the evolution of Batgirl from annoying and in-the-way to independent a capable hero.

The villain would have to be one of Bat's ladies since he needs a good replacement for Rachel and their are no good gals to really pull from. Catwoman's simple thief who doesn't really hurt anyone could work and we all can imagine that. Drop the previous affair and possibly her daddy's name and Talia 'al Ghul also works by bring back the League of Shadows. And pair up perfectly with her would be Poison Ivy. Of course, Ivy would have to be reduced to a very pretty man-hating eco-terrorist lacking any actual powers just some potent chemical and biological weapons and a massive desire to use them on Gotham. Rounding off the possible villains are a Riddler played by David Tennant (not Depp, we want quirky smart not insane gibbering), Penguin as the new boss of the underworld (played by Phillip Seymour Hoffman), Black Mask basically lifted as is from the comics, or a much more cerebral Bane (think Joker smart and physical equal to Batman). Hush, Mad Hatter, Zsasz, and other relatively normal bad guys require a little too much back story or lack the appropriate dramatic gravitas to really work for a whole movie. On a side note, that Robin origin movie idea would match up great with the likes of Calender Man.

Basic plot goes:
Batman running around getting beat up barely holding the city and himself together
Batman inspires sidekick to become hero
New villain shows up an attacks city
New sidekick builds up skills and tools to start off with (Think compressed Batman Begins)
Batman and sidekick meet, Batman disapproves
Villain attacks in earnest
Sidekick proves self to Batman as a better writer with more time takes villain vs Batman vs Cops to whatever conclusion the Nolan's want to bring it to

I'd also watch that...
But with a twist, both of batmans sidekicks (Robin and nightwing)
are each simultaneously tying to prove themselves to him

I Quite like Robin (Dick)

and i enjoy the idea of at the end of the next moivie bruce adopting a young resently orpanized Kid.

Even if the backstory is changed abit the circus drop changed to a ( this JJust Came to Me)
Somthing that is directly batmans fault like they get hity by the tumblerEven If he isn't in the movie and robin

How would the boy-wonder be gritty? and who would play him?

I can only see it working if they turned Robin into the demented psychopath that all teenage boys wish they could be.Sitting there,minding their own business until a group of bullies picks on him.His solution? He kills their dogs and puts them into a blender,then feeds them to his parents before killing them too.Y'know,something Hit Girl would do.

If I may we might want to add some more Day the Clown cried type tragedy at least explaining why the Circus can't raise the dude. And if you seen any of the publically released Aang auditions. Well I mean there are some limber kids out there. There are semi-experienced actors out there. You could possibly pull it off. Noah from all reports is a terrible actor (which is fine Aangs a lightweight role and he was cast to GROW into it and has experienced and strong supporting cast) but you could do something there.

Basically make it serious tragedy that triggers the events with Batman and Robin meeting. I'd even include the shorty shorts/trunks (they enable movement and are just a part of the outfit, it isn't like people aren't wearing stuff like it in public) Red Tunic (if he's doing his job you don't see him black *looks* dark and foreboding it really isn't that stealthy most of the time and maybe lose the cape until the end.

I agree completely.

For a Batgirl I think Summer Glau could pull it off pretty well.

If Nolan brings in Robin, what do you do about the fact that Nolan's Batman 3 is the same as Schumaker's Batman 3, with Robin, Two Face, and (reportedly) the Riddler?

brums405:
If Nolan brings in Robin, what do you do about the fact that Nolan's Batman 3 is the same as Schumaker's Batman 3, with Robin, Two Face, and (reportedly) the Riddler?

Two-Face is dead. The Nolan brothers have been pretty clear about that.

Sorry guys, but I have to disagree with MovieBob on this. I think that adding Robin would most likely have a negative effect on the movie; the most notable being that people would immediately start comparing him to Hit-Girl, and so even though he came first he'll feel like a copy. Also, he doesn't fit with the darker and more realistic theme that Christopher Nolan is going for, as well as the central story of how Bruce Wayne is dealing with being Batman. To introduce Robin as well as the next villain(s) would take up a lot of time that needs to be devoted to the central story. If a sidekick type character needs to be introduced, it ought to be Catwoman, since she has a great love/hate relationship with Batman, and it would create a complication to Bruce's feeling about Rachel's death.

Actually I never thought about it like that before - Dark Knight I mean. It really was dark. Huh... thanks good chap.

OT: I don't mind what Nolan does really, anything he touches is gold. Really looking forward to Inception.

EDIT: Zsasz would be the best villain for the next Batman in my opinion. He has the psychotic and twisted nature necessary for Nolan's vision.

By the way, for everyone expressing their disdain for the campier versions of Batman, I urge you to watch a few episodes of the Brave and the Bold. They are Silver Age Batman at his finest and show how well it can be done. They even pull off the near miraculous task of making Aquaman a character you can really like.

Not that it would fit with Nolan's Batman at all but it just goes to show that camp isn't all bad.

Rhino of Steel:
By the way, for everyone expressing their disdain for the campier versions of Batman, I urge you to watch a few episodes of the Brave and the Bold. They are Silver Age Batman at his finest and show how well it can be done. They even pull off the near miraculous task of making Aquaman a character you can really like.

Not that it would fit with Nolan's Batman at all but it just goes to show that camp isn't all bad.

I'd agree with all of that save for the word "camp." "Camp," generally, refers to a form of humor - usually the ironic appreciation of something that wasn't originally meant to be funny or a parody on those same lines. The Adam West "Batman" was most-definately camp, as it was essentially a SPOOF of 60s-style comics and pop-art - and BTW, if you haven't in awhile, go back and actually WATCH some of that series without the cloud of "this made serious comic movies impossible for decades" hanging over it, and you might find it's actually a lot of fun at least in the initial seasons. If nothing else, Batman fans have THAT show to thank for making now-mandatory characters like Bat-Girl, Mr. Freeze and The Riddler popular again (in fact, the Barbara Gordon Bat-Girl EXISTS solely because of the show.)

"Brave & The Bold," on the other hand... I'm not sure that's really "camp." At least not most of the time - the musical/comedy episodes are definately camp. But overall, the tone of that series is basically Silver Age Batman/DC played "straight." That's how comics were, for most part, prior to the late-70s. DC put out a series of "Batman In The..." books covering the 60s, 70s and 80s, reading through them is a good cure for the "Batman has always been _______" thing. That send, B&TB is basically a fantastic show.

Robin as the comic relief \o/

Saarai-fan:
I'm going to have to say I think Moviebob makes a solid arguement. It's understandable why some wouldn't like it, but all I have to say is if Nolan can make it work in some kind of way, then make it work.

Also, I too loved Batman Beyond. I hated it when the show was canceled, but I was at least glad when the Justice League cartoons on Cartoon Network did go back into the Batman Beyond universe a couple of times for fun's sake and to tie up loose ends.

As for a villian I'd like to see in the next Batman film, probably Hush. Catwoman would most likely be good as a love interest, though Talia could fit in if done correctly. In fact, I'm pretty much fine with any Batman villian, as long as they don't do something to ruin them like how "Batman and Robin" screwed up Bane.

The Batman Beyond six issue comic miniseries starts next month I believe, plus Superman/Batman annual #4 will also expand on Batman Beyond so if you have access to a comic book shop I'd reccomend getting either/both of those.

Batman is fine the way he is. Don't fix what isn't broken.

So here's the idea I had and how I see Batman gaining at least a temporary non-Robin ally. I haven't worked out how exactly it will play out in the end, but I wanted Bruce's internal conflict to shift from Batman as hero or villain symbol for Gotham more to how he balances his skills as Bruce Wayne, billionaire businessman, and the Batman, and for him to see that Gotham needs both in order to prosper.

WHERE THE STORY LEFT OFF: Batman has been finding himself in various amounts of trouble on all sides. Powerful forces on both sides of the law wish to gun him down. Harvey Dent, now known as Two-Face, continues to pursue his deranged sense of justice by chance, despite Batman's and Bruce Wayne's calls for him to stop. Batman regularly prevents Dent from causing further damage, but sometimes must again take the fall for him.

IDEA: Villains: The Penguin, Mr. Freeze "Ally": Catwoman
PLOTLINE: The loss of the Joker, Falconi and various other crime lords has left an economic vacuum in the city, as city government has continually failed to provide for the needs of those who had once, even reluctantly, relied on the black market. An economic crisis has befallen the city, fueled by the destruction caused by the Joker, but also due to other forces. Both the government and Wayne Enterprises are feeling the crunch. Bruce finds that he has less money than he needs to both protect the city as Batman and be that force the city's citizens need to come to their financial rescue.
Enter the Penguin. Oswald Cobblepot, a well-known millionaire who made his fortune through crime, decides to step in and attempt to fill the shoes the Joker left behind as the number one crime boss in Gotham. He sees it as a good investment for his future to supply the goons with what they need to kill Batman, in return for loyalty to him. Unlike the Joker, who thrived on chaos and did nothing to help anyone else, the Penguin, as Cobblepot was known for his love of birds and penguin-like appearance in a tuxedo, instead felt that in order to achieve his ends, he must be the one to bring about order in the streets. He would take over Gotham by robbing from the "rich", such as banks, businesses that remained wealthy (including Wayne Enterprises), and wealthy individuals, and give to the poor, of course keeping a large percentage of the funds for himself and his circle in order to effectively take control of the city government through bribes and other methods. Of course, this would not exactly be "giving", either, hanging favors and predatory loans over the heads of the people of Gotham in order to bring in even more profit and control. This would also aid him in taking out Batman by fighting both a physical and a propaganda offensive against him. If the Penguin supplies the people with what they need, they would despise Batman even more than they already do, seeing him as someone who wants to take away their chance at a decent life along with applying his own sense of "justice" in the streets. This would only add to Batman's already-poor image among the populace due to his taking the blame for the murders committed by Two-Face. Anyone supporting Batman in Penguin-controlled neighborhoods would be dealt with by the mobs.
One such person aided by the Penguin was Dr. Victor Fries, a physiologist in Gotham University researching a cure for his wife's terminal disease. She was being kept alive in a constant cryostasis. Unfortunately, budget cuts due to the economic crisis force the University's board to cut funding for Fries' research. Knowing he needed the funding to keep his wife alive, Fries became desperate. He turned to the Penguin for help, and received it in return for technology that would aid the Penguin in his own dealings. Because Gotham U. is a public university, the government would not allow Fries to continue using the university laboratory to conduct his privately-funded research, especially not with the Penguin's funds. He would not go quietly, and police had to step in and remove him from his laboratory. The Penguin sent lackeys to help protect Fries. Even Batman joined in at one point, in order to make sure things didn't get out of hand. Unfortunately, during the tussle, an accident occurred. The pipes keeping Fries' wife's freezing machine cold broke apart. The doctor ran to fix them, but was severely injured and knocked out in the process. Batman rescued Fries and brought him to the hospital, where researchers fitted him with a suit that would keep Fries' body temperature at the cold temp now required to keep him alive. The Penguin, who bribed police to let him see Fries, convinced Fries to blame his wife's death on Batman and further join the fight against him. So, the villain Mr. Freeze was created.
As the crisis wears on, the city government and Wayne Enterprises continue to take major hits to their public image and their pocketbooks. The Penguin is beating them not necessarily with firepower, but with economics. Now, with freezing technology on their side, there is a new type of danger posed to Batman. How will Bruce make his father proud and bring his company back to a good place in the public eye? How will Batman defeat an enemy whom he had not prepared for, when he may not be able to make the investments necessary to make those preparations? It may take all the skills of both Bruce Wayne and Batman to defeat this new foe.
Though Bruce would have a little help from a surprising source. Selina Kyle comes into the story as a young, driven woman who reminds Bruce of Rachel quite a bit. Unfortunately, the two have a hard time seeing one another. It seems either one of them is never available for sometimes strange and mysterious reasons. Of course, for those who don't know, Selina is Catwoman. She would feature perhaps in one or two meetings between the bat and herself, as a cat burglar taking advantage of the economic mayhem and barely slipping away from the Bat when he tries to catch her. Her biggest intake comes from stealing directly from the Penguin's bank hauls. However, her time with Bruce makes her see exactly the devastation Gotham is in and how the Penguin's predatory practices really aren't making anything better. She decides to make one last heist from the Penguin and steal decisive evidence Bruce needs to threaten the Penguin's empire and hands it over to Batman "to give to Bruce Wayne". In the end, Bruce will use his own business and legal skills to take down the Penguin, allowing Batman to focus on Mr. Freeze and take him down.

I've not grown up with the comic scene but I do want to see Robin in one of these Batman movies. Just because I used to be a huge fan of Teen Titans when it was on Carton Network and he was pretty awesome in it.

KurtzGallahad:

gartoo:
-snip-

I'd also watch that...
But with a twist, both of batmans sidekicks (Robin and nightwing)
are each simultaneously tying to prove themselves to him

It'd be the first Robin (Dick Greyson) if they put him, who IS Nightwing when he grows up. But no that'd be a bad idea anyway, even if they somehow put Nightwing and the 2nd Robin in the story, two kids vying for Batmans respect would be silly.

OT: While I know Robin can exist within gritty Stories (Ie Dark Victory), I find it unlikely that Hollywood would make him gritty, while Nolan did an amazing job with BB and TDK, I just don't trust Hollywood not to pressure him into being too happy for the universe TDK exists in, while I realise that Batman needs something to bring him up from his current situation, I just feel Robin would end up feeling out of place. Although I don't really like Batmans side kicks, I like my Batman gritty and brooding, which most of the time can't happen if Robin is around.

I think Bob is generally on the money, except for one thing, Hit girl is Big daddy's partner, not his side kick. Hell the first time we see her she kicks more ass than the hero, and continues to do so for the rest of the film.

You modify Robin/Batgirl/who ever on that basis, it might actually work.

To me it sounds like you feel you have a solution, but there is no problem. So you're creating problems in TDK franchise so that you have a solution ready.

As far as I'm concerned Christopher Nolan knows what he is doing. It's his baby, his vision and he has by now proven himself worthy as a film maker. No one has a better track record than this guy at the moment.

So while I don't necessarily disagree with you, I'd like to point out that we shouldn't be expecting anything from Nolan. Let's leave him to do the heavy lifting lest we get disappointed prematurely because it's not what we were expecting.

"#1. He Belongs There"

Maybe he does in the comics, but we know that films are a different medium and we've already got so much going on with villains it's hard to get a balance in. I think we should let Nolan decide what belongs where.

"#2. He Makes Sense"

Again this assumes a path is already set for the next Batman. Perhaps the next one is JUST Bruce Wayne redeeming himself through other means. We don't necessarily need an external solution since the problem is internal. We cannot know what makes sense to the director or his writer.

"#3. Dark is Dead"

Noticed how your examples are Marvel studios, Marvel studios, Marvel studios and oh, Marvel studios? I don't think what ONE studio has for a vision should encompass everyone elses' vision. What about Kick Ass? Wasn't that satirical about the disillusionment of "colourful comic capers"? If Nolan wants to give Bruce Wayne a heroin addiction, abusive tendencies and fetish for 8mm (see what I'm saying there?), then so be it. That's HIS vision.

Summary:
If WB gave you $100 million to make the sequel to the next Batman, that would be a travesty. Not because you have bad ideas, but because you haven't proven yourself. You haven't made the franchise yours through success. Nolan is definitely not at a stage where the franchise is so bad that it needs reinvention. I trust the next Batman will be amazing with or without Robin. Nolan doesn't NEED Robin, he just needs to be left alone to enjoy making his movie...that is the most important aspect of film making (having fun).

Given that the Nolan films have established Barbra Gordon as being fairly young in the current timeline, I don't think that Batgirl is possible (Yes, I know that she isn't the only Batgirl, but she's the most obvious canidate). That said, I agree with Bob, Robin should have a role in the next Nolan film.

Not a particularly large role, but a good supporting role to play off Batman's darkness. It's a needed counterbalance. So long as Robin isn't over-played, I think that it could work.

My single issue is that the only way I see this working is if they use Dick Greyson as Robin, rather than Jason Todd or Tim Drake (who I consider to be better Robins that Greyson, who I only really think of as Nightwing).

I would rather they use robin to then develop him into "nighthawk" (is that right is that what he is called or is it hawkeye i always get those 2 confused) that way they could focus on the two characters diffenent responses to fighting crime maybe.

So everyone ignored my first post, which is a shame, because I think I had good points. So I figure I'd best go technical with this. I hate to be a ranter, but I am 100 percent positive that putting in Robin would ruin the franchise, and possibly even damage other comic book movies, so I want to make sure I'm heard, so that if/when it happens, I can point to this and say "I toldja so."

Problem 1: Time.
Simply put, there is a lot of movie to get through in the third installment. You have to help build Bruce's character, a little Alfred building up, some Gordon, you have to introduce 2 new villains, characterize them, build them up as epic, give them reasons for being psycho and you have to conclude all hanging storylines from the first 2, plus all the action scenes you want. That's MINIMUM, you might want to introduce new characters (more on that in a moment) or throw a new plotline around. That's a lot to do in 2 and half hours. Now add in Robin...
Well this isn't War Machine, we don't have the character lying around to just stick in a suit, there hasn't even been an X2-esque name-dropping. So we have to introduce him, his parents, them owing money on some level, them being murdered, Bruce adopting him, him finding out Bruce is Batman, him deciding to join him, training and his action scenes. That's a good solid hour to 90 minutes right there. Trying to fit that in to what you already have to do in the final installment is going to make the film feel rushed or FAR too long, and odds are you're going to have to skimp somewhere in the plot, causing the ENTIRE thing to suffer.

Problem 2: Logic.
Robin, on a lot of levels, makes VERY little sense. His costume is entirely unsuited to stealth, adopting him is out of character for Batman and taking a minor into battle is a bit immoral (which, if you'll recall, was the point of Hit-Girl in the comic.) You HAVE to reimagine his costume, there is no way around it. But then you've got a problem, because if you change his costumes, hardcore nerds are going to bitch, if you don't it's going to look overpoweringly stupid (for reference, see Wolverine's costume in the X-men films, or at least the good ones). And you have to add in Bruce wanting a sidekick of some kind, which is going to make the movie feel even more stretched.
And none of this even addresses that Robin, as a character, is unsuited to the dark feeling of the current movies. For example, having a teenager in red and yellow standing in the corner smart-mouthing during the Joker interrogation scene would have RUINED the scene.

Problem 3: Casting.
Let's cut the crap, shall we? A lot, lot, LOT of teenage actors are either annoying or unsuited to this role and movie and having one of your main characters miscast is almost a death sentence on it's own. I suppose we could pull A Clockwork Orange move and cast a 29 year old guy as a teenager, but that's really just postponing the issue. And even if you get a good actor in his own right, if he doesn't work well with Christian Bale (who, let's face it works best alone), the movie could still go down the shitter.

Feel free to ignore me again if you like, but I don't think it would work very well.

Dok Zombie:

Rhino of Steel:
Since Nolan is so opposed to the idea of Robin this all sadly seems beside the point as he won't be in the next one anyway. They could always go with the other sidekick, Batgirl. That way they can keep the dark, gritty feel if they also give us her change to Oracle. Actually, if they did that it may well trump the level of darkness in TDK.

Failing that, just give us Ace.

Wait... why has nobody suggested this yet? Batgirl has all the qualities of Robin that people have listed, with the added interest of Oracle.

Because Batgirl has all of the problems of Robin DOUBLED. And you should only put Ace in the movie if you want to kill the Batman films for a good solid ten years and set back the cause of comic book movies being taken seriously back to Fantastic Four levels. I'm not kidding. Ace in a movie is the single stupidest thing I've heard in recent memory.

Alternately to the whole over-his-issues-now angle:

Nolan has now established batman as 'the dark knight', a figure who is whatever Gotham needs him to be, does whatever it needs him to do, etc etc. What better than a hero who begins to indoctrinate a youth into his lifestyle--living up to the whole 'live long enough to see yourself yadda yadda' bit?

I imagine a Gotham City ten years down the road, where Wayne Enterprises is the new mafia--controlling everything, everyone knows about it, etc. Now that Gotham's financial prospects are fertile ground, foreign interests begin to move in. The Penguin, as a rival entrepreneur.

Meanwhile Batman has evolved into a a symbol of the old city; the weird, the dark, the evil. Bruce Wayne dresses up like Batman and abducts petty thieves from jail--inciting the city to righteous anger against him.

Edward Nigma (change the name to something less golden-age) is brought in as a detective character for the Gotham PD. They need to ACTUALLY find Batman now, and ACTUALLY get rid of him--and The Riddler is the only detective who can crack that particular puzzle.

Fox is gone. Alfred is dead (or dying?) Wayne is getting older, and soon Gotham is going to be without its protector/catharsis, Batman, or its not-so-subtle financial overlord, Wayne Industries. Is this really such a bad thing? We're not sure...

...but Bruce begins to train his young replacement.

This would also be a nice step up in terms of aesthetic. BB was all brown and gritty streets and factories. Dark Knight was dark streets and glass windows. Batman3 is marble floors, penthouses--more of the whole corporate espionage angle.

And so it goes.

I have nothing against Robin, but he just doesn't work in the mythos Nolan has made for his trilogy plus adding something just to add something is what kept the franchise dead for nearly a decade. Elesar's points unfortunately hit the nail right on the head in that the way Nolan and his team write just doesn't fit with Robin being in there. I can't even seen Knightfall working now that I think of it since Azrael is just a twisted Robin foil. I dunno, Nolan and his boys haven't made a bad movie yet so I have faith.

MovieBob:

brums405:
If Nolan brings in Robin, what do you do about the fact that Nolan's Batman 3 is the same as Schumaker's Batman 3, with Robin, Two Face, and (reportedly) the Riddler?

Two-Face is dead. The Nolan brothers have been pretty clear about that.

Really? I believe you Moviebob, but source?

And given the Dark Knight film, perhaps we will see a new Robin, in the form of Gordon's son. He has seen time on screen and has had some interaction with Batman and directly effected by the villains of Gotham City.

Or

Barbara Gordon has never been shown on screen (As far as i know) and so they are free to cast whoever they want as her if they were to bring in a Batgirl.

brums405:

MovieBob:

brums405:
If Nolan brings in Robin, what do you do about the fact that Nolan's Batman 3 is the same as Schumaker's Batman 3, with Robin, Two Face, and (reportedly) the Riddler?

Two-Face is dead. The Nolan brothers have been pretty clear about that.

Really? I believe you Moviebob, but source?

And given the Dark Knight film, perhaps we will see a new Robin, in the form of Gordon's son. He has seen time on screen and has had some interaction with Batman and directly effected by the villains of Gotham City.

Or

Barbara Gordon has never been shown on screen (As far as i know) and so they are free to cast whoever they want as her if they were to bring in a Batgirl.

Actually you would have seen Barbara at the same time you see Gordon's son; when Two-Face took the Gordon family hostage. All of Gordon's children were young. The third film would have to be at least 7 or 8 years after TDK ends to have a Barbara Gordon old enough to be Batgirl. But that possibility is very much open, so it could happen.

As other people has also mentioned, Dick Grayson (first robin) is the current Batman, which means not having Robin in the batman movies kills any chance of this happening in the movies.

And I want to see a kid about the age of Hit-Girl to be Robin, I feel this could add a sense of depth to the movies.

You mentioned Bucky in your article also. Just like Robin became Batman, Bucky is the new Captain America, so not adding him in the movie would be rather silly. (Considering the awesome movie plots you can make from the Wintersoldier and Captain America Reborn comics)

Marvel is going for a much older Bucky though, and not the teenager he was in the original comics (Much closer to the Ultimates version of Bucky)

But that is why I feel a 11year old Robin could be so cool.

PS:
A bit of a problem for the Batman Movies, and DC based movies as a whole is that they are not overseen as much as the Marvel movies are. So we see a lot of the issues we saw in early Marvel movies, where the director gets to make his own choices to how the movie should be.

That combined with the (what seems to me) an endless supply of Batman reimaginations comics, makes it very hard to tell what is the "correct" Batman movies to make.

Where as the Marvel movies have two comics universes to pick from: Marvel Comics and Ultimate Comics. Anything else is just side stories.

This is why the Avengers movies rock, and why DC based movies will continue to be cool, but not the same as the comics (imo)

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