View from the Road: What Do WoW and Twilight Have in Common? Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 NEXT | |
I didn't rage, but it did bring a smile over my face. Thank you for showing me. | |
Not a bad piece, although I must disagree. The thing I refuse to stand about the Twilight vampire is that it has absolutely none of the dignity that's been afforded to its type. Even the Count from Sesame Street has a certain gravitas for the environment that it's in, but Edward does not. There is absolutely nothing about the story that is related to his being a vampire that you couldn't replace with a mortal jock, and his vampiric characteristics have been literally defanged into just a nice little side dish. "Oh, you're a vampire? That's cool." If Meyer wanted to play up his undeath in a vampires against the rest of civilization scenario, then THAT could have made a more interesting romance. But it wasn't. The whole concept of his being a vampire was for no other reason than to cut off the balls of a cultural icon and monster, and that is why I object to it. | |
Agreed 100%, love the article, just wanted to mention that Dwarves in Dragon Age: Origins have a little more going for them than just being stocky and badass. I see no point to continuity among fantasy worlds, and in fact I am disgusted by the widespread (mis)use of Tolkien, MacDonald and other high fantasy settings. I get very tired when people debate about how vampires or werewolves or whatever are "supposed" to be, and it just seems very pointlessly inconclusive to argue about that sort of thing. | |
you make some good points! one thing I would say about dwarves is that while most people make them the stocky scottish beer swilling type, think about the Elder Scrolls universe! In that dwarves are an ancient type of elf who are obsessed with steam and magic, not stone and craftsmanship! pretty sure their armour makes them the same height as regular humans as well! | |
Oh dear heavens, THANK YOU! Thank you for pointing out something I have thought for a long, long time! I dislike Twilight as well, but I never really understood the argument that the vampires in Twilight aren't "real vampires". The truth is, there is no "right" way of potraying vampires, since how they are potrayed is open to the interpretation of the author. If the author of Twilight decided that the vampires in her fictional universe will be vegetarians and sparkle in sunlight, that is her choice. There is no rule that an author absolutely must adher to standard conventions of how vampires are potrayed. To be honest, I think fantasy authors are already way too stuck to the idea that the inclusion and/or potrayal of a certain race needs to follow certain guidelines. Why do all orcs need to be primitive warriors? Why do all elves need to be tall, graceful and make for good archers? Why do dwarves "have to be" included in every fantasy work (not that I mind them)? Really, it's kind of sad that in a genre with numerous possibilities, authors are so unwilling to explore new ideas and concepts. | |
Not if the basis for them being vegetarians isn't there. Demons and shadow magic have their own rules set down. The ones for Twilight actually contradict each other. | |
So your on a first name basis then? | |
Well, with Twilight and crap, the whole "But he's a vampire!" is just a vice. Edward could have been a serial rapist, a demon, a dwarf, a regular fucking guy, and the story would still be exactly the fucking same. However, the author decided she anted to take a beloved image of horror, and dumb it down to an all time low, so she could make a quick buck off of tween girls. Just a thought EDIT: also, it brings down the monster for the rest of us. 10 years ago, vampires were bad ass. Now, they are incredibly gay and nobody in their right mindset would think they have a good place amongst other dangerous (mythical) beings. | |
Actually John, I think part of the issue is that your dealing with ancient mythology vs. popular fantasy. To the best of my knowlege "Orcs" as they exist now have no real mythological counterpart. Nobody ever claimed real knights fought off "Orc Hordes". It leaves itself to a certain degree of interpetation. On the other hand, Vampires and Werewolves can be traced back to long-lasting mythologies, and as creepy as it is you can find that similar myths occured all over the world. Heck, one amusing thing about Werewolves was that Lewis and Clark allegedly claimed they were read and that they had met Native Americans who could shapeshift. Speaking of shapeshifters, when dealing with fantasy, that's another key element right there when it comes to werewolves in general. To hardcore fantasy enthusiasts there is a differance between someone who has been cursed with Lycanthropy, and someone who simply has the abillity to assume a wolf-like shape. The distinction has actually been used in a few stories. For example when a wizard or fey creature who can alter their form runs into a Lycanthrope, which might lead to two ginormous wolves going at it, though only one of them is actually a werewolf. It's sort of like if someone was to take people with vaguely scaly skin and say they are dragons... I think there are some limits to artistic liscence. What's more I'll argue that when people first started doing the romantic vampire thing, it was differant, and it was interesting because of the monsterous nature of vampires and such. As time has gone on they have simply been turned into a group of superhumans who may or may not actually NEED to prey on humanity... and they have also become progressively whinier and more "emo" than in any way dark, or tragic (which was the original point of the first stories). Such are my thoughts. | |
I loved the backstory of how Worgen came to be. Apperantly they were actualy a trans-dimensional race brought to Azeroth by a powerhungry wizzard to use as an unstoppable army. The cursed denizens of Gilneas are actualy infected with mutated version of the worgen blood. What Blizzard has been doing with Warcraft lore is realy crazy, increadible, unbelivable, insightfull and puzzling all at the same time. | |
I always just assumed it was Masquerade rules, with different kinds being different clans. Dracula was Ventrue, Nosferatu was...Nosferatu, and Cullen was Tremere. In the second Masquerade game, it's hinted that sunlight doesn't kill the vamps, that it's just a tool to keep the vampires out of sight and control them. I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the working over zombies have gotten, they weren't even originally dead. OT: I'm taking option B, that Worgen is furrybait. | |
This argument actually holds some weight. If an element in a unniverse like our own(Twilight) doesn't work as it would in real life, one must do a quick explanation as to why, or elkse you lose realism. Even a cheap handwave is fine, really. This little explanation helps with the willing suspension of disbeleif. For example, if you character can jump 6 feet straight up,this has to be explained somehow, even if it is as simple as "he is superman". The more crazy the idea, the better the explanation, or the suspension of disbeleif gets strained a little more. | |
Orks say WAAAGH because they are truly the best version of orks. People hate Garrosh in warcraft because he is so bloodthirsty but he is really just the most orkish one around and that's why he is taking over. On a side note I won't be getting kittenclysm as I know I will end up just flying around bored out of my mind again as it always ends up that way. | |
Heh, cheers for linking that letter, I had a great time reading it, he's a very funny guy! I hadn't really thought of Blade as being that World of Darness-ey. I know Underworld had some legal problems with White Wolf that should have been settled with a slight rewriting and being called World of Darkness - The Movie, but I didn't really think that about Blade, too. Also, while I'd admit that Anne Rice had pretty emo vampires, I'd still say that World of Darkness has more emo wankstain vampires :P | |
Hey look, I think Blizzard is getting lazy | |
Also to draw in more emo teens | |
If I read it right, "That's not realistic" wasn't what he was getting at. "There's no explanation to it" or better yet "there is an explanation which makes no sense at all" sounds about right. The actual point is relevant, however it gets swept away. If it's regular plate mail, what happens to it? Werewolf folklaw never quite managed this one either, half of them went with "they shift, lose their clothes and end up naked" (Terry Pratchett's Angua), the rest never quite manage it, and if I'm asked to suspend my disbelief, at least have half a lie prepared when my head asks "Why is that?" Vampires are weakened in sunlight. Over exposure kills them, that's what it's done since the first outbreaks in western literature in the 18th century. What Miss Meyer created was not a vampire, it was a fairy with blood fetish. | |
I dunno, I'm not upset by it I guess, but the Moonrage Worgen (Pyrewood folks), male and female I presume, all seemed to turn into the same model of "Worgen", as well as the Wolfcult in Grizzly hills, though I think those that transformed were male-only... can't remember right now... So I understand that they need a distinct shape for the player's perspective, but at the same time, they never really were distinct. Also, the way they did it wasn't completely unexpected; no matter what the males are shaped after, add boobs and hips and cure the scoliosis to make a female version. Granted, this works a little better for Worgen as they were human at one point... TL:DR; I don't quite get it anyway, but meh. | |
I think I'm the only one to touch on this, but as it's something I was giving some thought also... Worgen Druid, John. I feel like I never gave the class a real shot, so maybe the fresh zone and reworked Azeroth will be a good time to try it out. Though when I heard about Worgen's being druids, it still struck me as a bit weird. I mean when you're already a 12 foot tall human wolf, is turning into a bear that badass? Still should be fun. | |
i hate wow and i hate twilight not because of what they have done with fantasy i mean its fantasy that means it can be anything but because they are crap and yes i did read the books and yes i have played it i just didnt like ethier | |
Well, I already loved you, John Funk (just for the record), but it is now a somewhat more fierce devotion. And I'm tired to death of the standard fantasy races that have been so shamefully overused, so that's all I'm going to say. | |
Vampires and Werewolves are used so often because they represent some of our greatest fears in simple recognizable themes. Vampires are fear of things foreign and diseased. Werewolves are fear of the monster inside you. When people start using them outside of an easy scare, they take away the value of the originals. I doubt people could watch Dracula and still feel the same way about it. I don't actually care if someone uses a mythological creature because its recognizable, but werewolves and vampires were created for the reason of being scary. Why can't they stay away from them and stick to elves? lol furries | |
that sounds odd. there are "proper" werewolves in twilight aswell they are only mentioned in the shoddy ending to the last book, but they are there | |
I think more of the outrage over Twilight vampires is that literally the only thing they have in common with "real" vampires is that they drink blood. MovieBob basically nailed it in one of his videos. They're generic superhumans that Meyers decided to call vampires. Literally the only similarities between Twilight vampires and "real" vampires is that they're both pale and drink blood. I personally find it mildly annoying, if only because there's most of a generation who have no concept of what a vampire is actually supposed to be. | |
I think most people would agree when I say that changing what a vampire is isn't a bad idea, Twilight just did it horribly. Sparkles are fail, my little sister watched the first twilight film (she's 12 btw) and her first reaction was "What the fuck?! Vampire don't sparkle, who the hell are they trying to fool?!" really, I never laughed so hard in my life. The point is that vampires are supposed to be bad ass, but twilight made them whiny emo losers who get hung up over a MORTAL. Dracula never tried to take a walk in the afternoon sun because some chick dumped him. Why? Cause Dracula is the FUCKING SHIT! See where I'm coming from? And the "werewolves" in twilight are actually just shapeshifters (yeah, I read the whole series, I like to have a basis for my rage) so they don't even COUNT. Over all, yeah, a lot of nerds get all hung up over crap that doesn't really matter, to normal people, but if you play WoW for six hours a day (I'm gonna go with a normal side, rather than the ubernerds who play all day every day) on the weekdays, and eight hours or more on the weekends, then you've dedicated a large sum of your life to this game, and that makes it as much a part of you as your children, or mother, or whatever. Like the ID said when they were making Doom 3, players spend so much time playing these games that they feel connected to them, and their right, when you spend 100 hours playing a game, you know it better than most people, and you do have a right to say what's on your mind (about the game I'd assume). So, that's what I think, we protect things that we've grown up with, vampires are legendary, and you don't just walk up to a fantastic idea that has been around for centuries, and go "hmm, I can make it better!!" and not expect any kind of back lash. | |
theyre both waaaaaaaaaaaay overrated | |
Frankly, that's all you need. What a vampire is "supposed to be"? It's a fictional creature! It does not exist! | |
I have to say Funk that you raise a good point and you present it well. It's also come to my attention that the more rational and resonably presented the arguement the more likely you are to get such reasonable responses such as ^above, Even when they appose your views. I agree that Twilight vampires are techniclly vampires, I just dont think theyre very GOOD vampires. The notion that they Sparkle is just horrible (On top of everything else). BUt of course thats just my opinion. I guess Steph' Was just cashing in on the fact that most people li- Ohhhhhh......Shiny object.......... | |
I want to agree with you, Funk, but I've stood on both sides of this argument in the past, and find it more interesting to play the Devil's Advocate here. I will try to do that. I don't think fiction should strictly adhere to certain archetypes. On the opposite, I support imagination and experimentation, trying out new ideas, twisting familiar concepts into new angles. But is there a point where this new concept strays too far from what we've come to accept? Where is the line drawn between "a new interpretation of X" and "that's nothing like X at all"? Is there even such a line? There might be. If my interpretation of a vampire is that of a kindly creature that glitters in the sunlight, can drink blood only if it wants to, behaves in the same way as humans do, and tends to helps old ladies cross the road at night, is it still a vampire? Maybe some of you will say "Yes, it is a vampire if you want to be vampire, since you're the author here". Okay, I agree to that. I've taken the role of author and if I so want it I can make my vampires to be large fat mammals that eat grass and produce milk. These may be called vampires, but they're not GOOD vampires. I've strayed so far from the base concept, from what we've come to expect of vampires, that calling it a vampire is no longer appropriate. I'll call it a "Cow". And that's sort of the point I'm probably not doing a very good job at making. Whether right or wrong, whether we should or shouldn't, we've come to expect certain characteristics from certain concepts, and straying too far from these expectations might yield a concept that shares the same name, but none of the spirit. Vampires and werewolves have been done so much by popular culture that we may have simply grown more resistant and more critical to new interpretations of these old concepts than others. | |
I fully believe people rail against twilight because it's seen as an affront to their masculinity. Having read the books I can honestly say they'd absolutely rock if given to a competent writer, they have potential as characters. But people will never like them because they have feelings and don't behave like Leonidas or Kharn the Betrayer. It's basically the same as anything that isn't played straight-up masculine and is called 'gay' for it. Frankly if you transplanted those vampires into another universe they'd probably still fit really well. But they'll forever be judged by 'rar Alucard could kill them' which is so childish and 'mine's bigger' that it causes me to wince. That'd ignoring the sexual undertones I've written about on here before which a lot of people on here miss when they think of vampires. | |
John...for all your great points...you skipped the most important fact. | |
That's interesting. I couldn't really relate to the Dragon Age dwarves because to me an hierarchic organisation this complex wouldn't scream dwarvish.. | |
I'm too busy being incensed by the furry porn star modelling of the female Worgen, while the male gets to look like a proper beast. Seriously, what is that about? I want to play a female werewolf. That means I have a sexy human female but she turns into a wolf, not a taller, bustier, hairier version of herself. | |
This is my favourite article that I have ever read on The Escapist! Bravo for the awesome read! | |
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I'm sorry, but this is one of the silliest arguments I've ever heard. If you can suspend your disbelief enough to believe that we're fighting demons by slinging shadow magic at them, you can suspend your disbelief to believe in vampires, even vegetarian ones or ones that glitter in sunlight.