On Kinect and PlayStation Move

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I completely understand the whole idea behind not getting an opinion of Portal 2 before playing.

Hell, I'm worried that the second one might just be terrible.

Screw motion controls. They suck and this point is a very dead horse. What I like about the Wii and the blatantly shameless PS move is that it's - or at least on it's way to - the rebirth of the light gun. Maybe I'm alone here but I absolutely love Metroid prime trilogy, RE4, sin and punishment etc and I'm seriously looking forward to what the PS3 will turn out. Sure it's not an actual gun and yeah it's not exactly 1-1 aiming, all room for improvement. The fact is I do see this as a positive direction.

i agree. motion controls can never really be used for any deep game. i'll still buy move though, cuz well sometimes i just want to play a fun little gimmick when i get home.

"Not that I'd be unwilling to do so if you'd be willing to pay for the flight out again, Valve."

What does this "again" mean Yahtzee? Hmmm? I sense some sort of hint. Indulge me people.

Yahtzee, don't bundle yourself in with Kermode. He's a dick.

JaceValm:

the 3DS is a gimmick, nothing more. All my friends who own a DS won't get the 3DS because they don't care about 3D qualities because 100 on sometihng you already have half of is too expensive.

You may want to inform your friends that, despite the confusing name, it is not another iteration of the 3DS. This is the next generation of Nitendo's handheld line, and they need to base the decision on the game line-up, not the 3D effects (which, for the record, can be turned off if you so desire)

People thought you voiced the AI bot? That's just stereotyping the accent =P

Yahtzee and some called it, this article is a legit evidence if the time ever goes and we look back, finding 3D nothing but inferior shit, trying to stop downloading movies and go back to the Cinema. The only 3D movie worth it remains Avatar.

GeneticallyModifiedDucks:
"Not that I'd be unwilling to do so if you'd be willing to pay for the flight out again, Valve."

What does this "again" mean Yahtzee? Hmmm? I sense some sort of hint. Indulge me people.

He has visited Valve in the past (on their expense), hence the "again" there.

3D is a gimmick, unless it is done right.

movies made into "3D" at the last minute to get an extra $5 out of each viewer is a step backwards from what it should be.

movies that think 3D is "Woah, look at this thing that looks like it can hit you but actually can't." is a step backwards from what it should be. "It's like its jumping off of the screen."

Movies that make the movie in 3D but don't really make a big deal out of it (Toy Story 3) have done 3D right.

Kinect is easily the future of entertainment systems (controlling music, movies, and communication by voice? makes for an excellent alternative to a lost remote)

Move has to do what Wii and WiiMotion+ does but better.

Oh please valve add a hidden turret with Yahtzee's voice, pretty please...

OT:
current 3D tech holds no interest to me due to having to wear glasses, and this eliminating me from viewing most 3D films/games comfortably.
As for motion control, minority report style control should be looked into, but i'm with Yahtzee about putting the big bucks into neural socket research. Imagine an improved FPS Crackdown 2 with neural controls, would you need any other game?

Got a feeling that all the hate against motion controls is largely based on Force Unleashed not meeting your expectations.
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Weird controls taking over for the more simple approach has happened before though. Hardened PC gamers remember when they laughed at the stupidity of aiming with an analog stick.

Us oldfashioned gamers have to step aside and let the motion controlling, farmville playing 'casual' tidalwave pass

I fail to see why a new control scheme is so terrible...it's not like the motion will replace buttons out right. Aside from sword fighting or pointing, most wii games that I've played require nothing more than a flick of the wrist, or a small, specific movement. I've never done any of this infamous "arm flailing" people keep complaining about.

Yahtzee Croshaw:
Extra Punctuation: On Kinect and PlayStation Move

Kinect and PlayStation Move aren't taking us towards the future of gaming, they're taking us away from it.

Read Full Article

The brain already has a built in way to disconnect motor control from thoughts, and brain commands. I don't imagine tripping this manually is really outside even our current reach. But direct to brain interfaces carry some scarey implications. Taking instructions from brainwaves is all fine and dandy but when the machine starts feeding back directly, bypassing the standard, ears, eyes, fingers methods, you get some uncharted territory of risk and worry that makes investors tremble. Don't get me wrong I long for the day I can put my little neckpiece on and dive into virtual space wholesale but I honestly think tech is the least of that things worries.

I'm not so naive or fanboyish not to see the kinect and move for what they are in essence. Plugs for some of nintendos market. But the tech is full of good uses, it's just a shame sony went right for the copy + lightbulb, and that Kinect commercials look like wii commercials(which are subliminaly IKEA commercials). While motion controls are not technically as quick for any single command they have the potential to put infinite "buttons" at your command.

Take metroid prime 3. The wii circumevented it's lack of a mouse with the even more intuitive direct pointer. On top of that it circumvented it's lack of buttons by putting the grappling hook on a nunchuck gesture. This worked pretty smoothley and yanking a pirates shield felt pretty visceral and it was a damn fun game. I know this is a pretty small example but it worked well, and the game was otherwise, very traditional. You can hybridize motion controlls and button controls.

If the kinect does nothing else but enable headtracking in FPS and racing games I'll be all over it. It really need not end there. It's not really motion control tech that's the gimmick, it's the lack of creativity using it that's cheap. For the record I don't think stereoscopic 3d is a gimmick either, it's a novelty, overused while its hot, then later toughtfully used to actually add quality to the final product.

You know color and sound were branded as gimmicks by critics when they were added to film. An idea supported by thier, at first, completely overexagerated use. Things like unnaturaly colorful wardrobe or blaring soundtrack. Just sayin.

yahtzee have you not seen the new gameplay mechanics on valves youtube channel?

i warn you, some puzzles are solved in front of your very eyes so spoiler alert i guess

http://www.youtube.com/user/Valve#p/u/5/1oVpE40V9rE

i think this game is going to be the length of an average game now, with all these new aperture puzzle solving mechanics...its going to be easier to have a longer game without the player getting bored

I CANT FFFFFFF-ING WAIT!

Anyone else dissapointed in there not being a ZP this week. Ah well, I think he said on his twitter that his internet was down so that's understandable, but still I need my master to give his honest opinion so I can twist it that anyone who dissagrees with him is auto-matically wrong and doesn't deserve an opinion. Oh well.

Good article by the way, I agree with everything except the gameplay trailers, I can't help but get hyped up for Infamous 2.

EDIT: Shit, I thought it was wednesday today.

Thank you, Yahtzee. I spent like half an hour trying to establish to this one guy why motion controls will not live up to the Steel Battalion legacy.

Thank you Yahtzee for restating what I've been saying all along: Motion Controls are a gimmick and IT'S NOT REAL 3D! I too have had people claim about how it will add real depth to games for jumps and such(comments made by people who really should know better, and who work for this site), when in reality it provides no depth and you still have to train your eyes to judge jumps the same as if it was flat 2D with no optical illusions.

Motion controls are jerky, unresponsive and I think we really do need that data-jack in the back of our necks to move forward beyond hand controllers or keyboard/mouse. Not to mention, the Move still looks like a sex toy....now with buttons to make it really hardcore.

ProtoChimp:
Anyone else dissapointed in there not being a ZP this week. Ah well, I think he said on his twitter that his internet was down so that's understandable...

He told you on the internet, that his internet was down...SPOOKEY NOOCHIES!

Ok difficult discussion incoming, motion controls DO have a point but immersion is not that point. To go back to the "Learning to read" analogy mentioned in the article, many people don't want to learn to read. It's hard. Motion controls are the 'picture book' of control schemes. They are abstract, imprecise but they are easy to 'get' for those who where averse or ignorant to gaming before this.

They break down the leanring time invoved in gaming but have no real function for those who already know the language. Personally i think controllers are VASTLY superior to motion solutions.

As with the article on "games as art," this one also hits the nail on the head in regards to motion controls and 3D. Bravo, Yahtzee-won Kenobi. Bravo.

hawk533:
Has anyone else read the article in the latest Popular Science on this new game system in Las Vegas that was previously a Military and Police training tool.

It's essentially a giant hamster ball on a track with a virtual reality headset, you move and the ball turns and moves your avatar. It sounds much more immersive than motion controls or 3D, but it isn't any closer to the Thought -> In Game Action than a regular controller.

Sure but it is a start. Which means we might see the thought--->action in my lifetime.

This whole 3D/motion control boom disappoints me greatly.

So far the only thing they've accomplished is "decent gimmick", and thats me being generous.

ColdStorage:
Ben Croshaw will be have a cameo in a later Valve game, I'm calling it.

Rasputin1:

Tharwen:
What? Wheatley sounds nothing like Yahtzee! Silly people...

The new robot thing? How could anyone possibly think that thing is Yahtzee.

Because he's British, Americans have difficulty telling two brits apart, to the point that even our own Irridium can't tell the difference between Cockneys and Scousers.

There's a difference?

Right on the money.

What?! Wheatley is WAAAY too nice to be Yahtzee! and they sound NOTHING alike, minus the accent.

I do think that motion controls are immersive. Much like how one would perform a task by creating a motion in real life, video games seem to be using the same method for one to perform a task in the game. The only problem is that we haven't found a way to create feedback besides the rumble of the controller. I'm not saying that this is the ideal- feeling the feedback of an explosion would suck to say the least -but I don't think that just thinking something would be as engaging as moving.

I completely agree. I hate motion controls. In fact, before I obtained my 360, I had a gamecube and a PS2. PS3 had the little control motion control thingy, (can't remember the name), and the Wii had full motion control. Because of those two things I got the Xbox.

Portal 2 has bve totally excited...and, as for the two new big things...I really hope they will just be fads, so much

I dissagree about motion controls breaking immersion. In my experience, using a Wii's motion control isn't any better or worse than button controls and if implented correctly it could surpass a standard controller.

In my opinion, the size of the motion or the time it takes to do it has nothing to with an increase of decerease in immersion, but how much it feels right. It's not somthing that most gamers would think about, as they're used to using a controller and it simply comes narturaly to them, but game controlers have a fairly steep learning curve. If you're some one new to games, a 360 or PS3 controller would look fairly intimidating due to the sheer number of buttons and sitcks used. If the controls are just mapped to appropriate motions with a baton or camrea to register it makes far more sense.

This isn't to say motion controls are perfect, the technology isn't all there yet, I'm just saying that there's a lot of potential tht people are overlooking.

It would be quite interesting to hear Yahtzee in a videogame. Yet knowing it's Yahtzee will definitely break that fourth wall, and when you break that fourth wall you end up realizing that you're just in a game. Sure, have Yahtzee in a game, just keep it a secret until the ending credits.

To elaborate more on that fourth wall idea: the fourth wall is what separates our world from the world in your screen. When playing a game, our world should melt away and the screenworld should take over. But when a game makes a reference to other media or our world, our world breaks the wall and flows into the screenworld, breaking that immersion.

Which is why I'm glad that Eidos Montreal has decided to create their own in-game brand names for in-game advertisements.

Wait, another thought has sunk into my skull. If you have alot of real world references (see: Alan Wake), then it places the game world entirely in our world. It works well for horror games when your not sure whether or not the town you're living in is infested with shadow monsters and poorly animated facial expressions.

AkJay:
Sorry if this is off-topic, but when will we start getting updates from your space-game again?

I also wonde, but Yahtzee is a fairly busy and sexy man. So i can understand the problem that he probably has no more done than what he said in his last update. Although he can is free to disprove me.insert gay joke-extension here

OT:
I forgot what the article said in the course of typing the above....... Although I remember the Henry VII joke....

Oh, and Yahtzee. Have you forgotten all about that wonderful thing called Emotiv?

Sure, I wouldn't want a giant tarantula on my head eating my thoughts, but it's a step forward.

Plus imagine wearing that while you sleep. Your game would be fucked up.

I agree on motion control, it's a step backwards on the whole brain-game interface.

Stereoscopic 3d though...

Was standard definition TV just a crude imitation of a hypothetical future technology? Was Black and White TV just a crude imitation of a hypothetical future technology? No, it was a stepping stone on the way to a future technology. I'm not as optimistic as him about the prospect of holographic televisions BTW. I greatly doubt that such things will be possible in the next 40 years, so stereoscopic is about the best we're going to get for a long time.

Cinematographers will figure out the techniques that they relied on to give the impression of 3d on a 2d plane and stop using them for 3d, and that should improve the whole thing drastically as well. (They need to switch to more pinhole type cameras and eliminate the out-of-focus foreground and background when you're dealing with 3d. They need to quit trying to use lighting to force a 3d effect as well.) As the whole 3d technique matures, the whole thing will mature and the gimmicks of things flying at you will decrease, the gimmicks of the 2d past will disappear, and new gimmicks and parlor tricks will show up to make the best of 3d technologies in a less obtrusive manner.

In a way, using focus blur and shadows to give the impression of 3d on 2d is a parlor trick and was a stand-in for a hypothetical future technology that has finally materialized...

I've heard that the effect is good, and that it ends up just becoming a part of the experience and you stop really noticing that it's in 3d once you get into the game. It's not in the way, it's improving the experience. I imagine that when the children these days grow up having 3d stereoscopic movies and games, they're not going to have any of the eyestrain problems that we adults have now.

I disagree that motion controls are a step backwards... well partially anyway.

For anything that needs force feedback (sword fighting, fishing, ect) motion controls most definitely are as bad as you make them out. Indeed, "things that need force feedback" includes most everything. There are a couple exceptions I can think of offhand, though: a steering wheel for racing games, and maybe a calligraphy game of some sort. It really doesn't matter if our real bodies are moving or not (in the hypothetical future of total immersion they probably will be, just to get us some damn exercise), so long as we think about the hunk of plastic in our hands as little as possible.

The best interface is the one you don't notice. That's possible with motion controls, though perhaps with too few potential games that can effectively use them.

Tharwen:
What? Wheatley sounds nothing like Yahtzee! Silly people...

Hey Thar, it looks as if your about to shoot whoever is in that screenshot.

Also 3D must die. It is nothing but a useless extra. We already percieve images on a 2d screen in 3d thanks to depth perception. We don't need any help in this from fancy technology.

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