Blizzard’s Unreal Real ID

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Whispering Death:
BJJ Hero your post confuses me. You seem to be trying to refute my coments and yet at the end you say

bjj hero:
I post here without a name as I work for the government. I'm signed up to the values of my department, need to stay apolitical in public and must practice pro social modelling. There are lots of subjects on the board I would have to stay well away from if my real name was attatched to my profile. If the escapist pulled a Blizzard I would not get mad, I'd just post a lot less, the same way I don't talk about bitches and hoes around co workers or while recognisable as my profession. It's the same reason I don't use face book etc, I work with some nasty people who I would not want looking me up. It is a choice I've made. Surely with now axed changes to the Blizzard forums its a case of "don't like it, don't post".

At the end of the day, you see the clear and obvious ramifications for linking online identities with your real life. You could easily have situations where 17 year olds on blizzard forums perhaps post a strongly repubican view on politicical issues they're interested in. Very typical, very normal activity. Flash forward a decade, they're 27 and more mature, reasoned, and down-the-middle, and are applying for a job in government. The hiring manger, who perhaps leans left, finds those right-wing opinions written 10 years ago. Now they have a black mark on their resume for something they did under a forced real name 10 years prior.

Even more simply, what if the hiring manager has a negative stereotype of people that play lots of those computer games. Gamers are lazy, they play violent games, and they don't have good social and teamwork skills. Oh, here's his profile and he plays lots of World of Warcraft? Next resume, please!

I think any system that forces people to put their real name out there has many dangers. We people get passed over for jobs and fired all the time because of things that have happened on facebook, myspace, and recently twitter. There's a reason "Facebook privacy" is a topic that makes it into the front pages of newspapers around the world.

Blizzard would be taking a step even further than facebook in revealing personal information to anyone who wants it, regardless of whether you want them to know it or not.

Youre right, I can see the possible out comes of linking online with real names. The same way I can see why I Should be careful about what I say in the paper, in public, at work etc. My point was that I'm all for personal responsability. I choose what I say dependent on the possible consequences. I was saying that it is neither a good or bad thing, its just a different setup. If they change the rules then you adjust your behaviour. This is not much worse than myspace/facebook/twitter. I choose not to use them for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post. That does not make them bad or evil, just not for me. I have coworkers who use social networking but aare very guarded about what they put out there. Its personal choice. As long as Blizzard is upfront about the rules I see no evil there, read the rules and make your choices as I do. Its not forced on you, you can vote with your feet or with silence.

With your example there are very few people who believe you are the same person at 17 as you will be 10 years later. Your whole world view changes. Managers are people too. Comments in journals, previous political affiliations, can come back to bite people on the arse. You have to be aware of it. Just don't make douche bag comments if you are not prepared to own them and live with the consequences.

Well, thank goodness they canceled this idea.

Think about it.

You could actually find that guy who ganked you for 14 solid hours in duskwood.

And do things to him. Terrible, terrible things.

(alliance suck)

http://ganked.ytmnd.com

I thought at first that Real ID would be a good idea and rid all of the anonymity that allows everyone to discard what trappings of civility they might have, though i never thought of any of the reasons that it could be bad. Good job on the article for that, whether Blizzard went through with it or not.

Eh, I'd rather keep my ability to blend in, thank you very much. This sounds like it has the potential for disaster, in a big way.

The internet is populated by rabid and unrepentant assholes who will wade into a reasonable discussion on Zerg vs. Protoss and begin an argument over whether or not Obama ordered NASA to create the Twilight movies as a smokescreen to cover up the fact that the Xbox red ring of death was caused by gays in the military.

Hahaha, very nice indeed. I also enjoyed the delivery on that dividing by zero joke.

I was never really sure what to think of this whole Real ID on the forums thing in the first place (I don't play WoW so it doesn't do anything to me), but now I guess it doesn't matter as they aren't doing it.

bjj hero:
Youre right, I can see the possible out comes of linking online with real names. The same way I can see why I Should be careful about what I say in the paper, in public, at work etc. My point was that I'm all for personal responsability. I choose what I say dependent on the possible consequences. I was saying that it is neither a good or bad thing, its just a different setup. If they change the rules then you adjust your behaviour. This is not much worse than myspace/facebook/twitter. I choose not to use them for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post. That does not make them bad or evil, just not for me. I have coworkers who use social networking but aare very guarded about what they put out there. Its personal choice. As long as Blizzard is upfront about the rules I see no evil there, read the rules and make your choices as I do. Its not forced on you, you can vote with your feet or with silence.

Your argument seems predicated on the fact that only what you say will call you into question. What about who you are? What if the very nature of your race/religion/sexual preference sets somebody off? What if it's the very fact that you're a gamer? Also, what if this system is retroactive? While you may be on guard once the Real ID system is in place, what if it reveals what you said in the past that you are no longer comfortable divulging? And it doesn't even need to attach your real name to the earlier posts, some basic detective work will fill in the blanks between your real name and old aliases.

You advocate proper decision making in what is appropriate to say for the circumstances, but I say that by forcing Real ID, they would be removing the most practical decision from you, the one to keep your identity a secret. (The safest decision is not to go on the internet at all, but that's pretty ridiculous) As such, I with the camp that wants it more limited (why should friends of friends see my real name?) and opt-in only, with the ability to hide if you don't want to be disturbed (I would never log into gmail if it weren't for the invisible status) but who accept that it can be useful for those who wish to use it.

Mysnomer:

Your argument seems predicated on the fact that only what you say will call you into question. What about who you are? What if the very nature of your race/religion/sexual preference sets somebody off?

Thats a gauntlet you run every day you leave the house. It's part of life, not some special apocalypse created by the internet.

What if it's the very fact that you're a gamer? Also, what if this system is retroactive? While you may be on guard once the Real ID system is in place, what if it reveals what you said in the past that you are no longer comfortable divulging? And it doesn't even need to attach your real name to the earlier posts, some basic detective work will fill in the blanks between your real name and old aliases.

The argument was that prospective employers will do a search for you etc. They could well have a browse of myspace etc, maybe have a quick look at your forum posts. As for researching each of your previous charecters/handles for each Blizzard game you've ever played then trawl through the history. Really? If you have posted like a dick in the past you might want to question if real ID is for you when Blizzard hit the "on" switch. Blizzard couldn't share your ID without your permission.

Now if you have made a whole page post on how Hitler was just misunderstood and is deliberately misrepresented by Zionists under the handle 1337ubertroll666, thats different. Someone might take enough interest to find out who 1337ubertroll666 is. As I said, you should be willing to own your comments and stand by the consequences. Before I post on the internet I think "Would I say this if the person was sat next to me?" If the answer is no you shouldn't be posting it.

You advocate proper decision making in what is appropriate to say for the circumstances, but I say that by forcing Real ID, they would be removing the most practical decision from you, the one to keep your identity a secret. (The safest decision is not to go on the internet at all, but that's pretty ridiculous) As such, I with the camp that wants it more limited (why should friends of friends see my real name?) and opt-in only, with the ability to hide if you don't want to be disturbed (I would never log into gmail if it weren't for the invisible status) but who accept that it can be useful for those who wish to use it.

Opt in and opt out still gives you the information to make a proper decision. You could embrace it and be aware that your comments are attributed directly to you or decide to not use Real ID. The idea of real ID seemed to be to end the secret identity stuff that can breed trolling (my previous posts talked about other anti troll options). Giving up your secrecy on a voluntary basis would nerf that. As long as Blizzard are honest about the new rules before they switch you can make an informed choice. You either embrace it or don't. I see nothing wrong with that.

Hum...
On one hand, I like my current wallpaper. On the other hand, you practically dared everyone who read this to make a Shamus Young wallpaper.
Well, at least they realised it was a bad idea, no?

bjj hero:

Whispering Death:
BJJ Hero your post confuses me. You seem to be trying to refute my coments and yet at the end you say

bjj hero:
I post here without a name as I work for the government. I'm signed up to the values of my department, need to stay apolitical in public and must practice pro social modelling. There are lots of subjects on the board I would have to stay well away from if my real name was attatched to my profile. If the escapist pulled a Blizzard I would not get mad, I'd just post a lot less, the same way I don't talk about bitches and hoes around co workers or while recognisable as my profession. It's the same reason I don't use face book etc, I work with some nasty people who I would not want looking me up. It is a choice I've made. Surely with now axed changes to the Blizzard forums its a case of "don't like it, don't post".

At the end of the day, you see the clear and obvious ramifications for linking online identities with your real life. You could easily have situations where 17 year olds on blizzard forums perhaps post a strongly repubican view on politicical issues they're interested in. Very typical, very normal activity. Flash forward a decade, they're 27 and more mature, reasoned, and down-the-middle, and are applying for a job in government. The hiring manger, who perhaps leans left, finds those right-wing opinions written 10 years ago. Now they have a black mark on their resume for something they did under a forced real name 10 years prior.

Even more simply, what if the hiring manager has a negative stereotype of people that play lots of those computer games. Gamers are lazy, they play violent games, and they don't have good social and teamwork skills. Oh, here's his profile and he plays lots of World of Warcraft? Next resume, please!

I think any system that forces people to put their real name out there has many dangers. We people get passed over for jobs and fired all the time because of things that have happened on facebook, myspace, and recently twitter. There's a reason "Facebook privacy" is a topic that makes it into the front pages of newspapers around the world.

Blizzard would be taking a step even further than facebook in revealing personal information to anyone who wants it, regardless of whether you want them to know it or not.

Youre right, I can see the possible out comes of linking online with real names. The same way I can see why I Should be careful about what I say in the paper, in public, at work etc. My point was that I'm all for personal responsability. I choose what I say dependent on the possible consequences. I was saying that it is neither a good or bad thing, its just a different setup. If they change the rules then you adjust your behaviour. This is not much worse than myspace/facebook/twitter. I choose not to use them for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post. That does not make them bad or evil, just not for me. I have coworkers who use social networking but aare very guarded about what they put out there. Its personal choice. As long as Blizzard is upfront about the rules I see no evil there, read the rules and make your choices as I do. Its not forced on you, you can vote with your feet or with silence.

With your example there are very few people who believe you are the same person at 17 as you will be 10 years later. Your whole world view changes. Managers are people too. Comments in journals, previous political affiliations, can come back to bite people on the arse. You have to be aware of it. Just don't make douche bag comments if you are not prepared to own them and live with the consequences.

Playing games shouldn't have to be taken with the pause and seriousness of writing a thesis or giving an interveiew with a hiring manager.

That's the problem with a real name system. Everything you do is part of your permenant record in a way nothing in real life is. In a "real name" system you have to be more guarded, more watchful, and use more internal filters than you do in real life. What you say and do has more weight than in real life. What you say when you're 15 will still be able to be discovered by a Google search when your 65. It's a terrible idea.

So you have 899.99 followers/fans/whatever?

Congratulations...

bjj hero:
Opt in and opt out still gives you the information to make a proper decision. You could embrace it and be aware that your comments are attributed directly to you or decide to not use Real ID. The idea of real ID seemed to be to end the secret identity stuff that can breed trolling (my previous posts talked about other anti troll options). Giving up your secrecy on a voluntary basis would nerf that. As long as Blizzard are honest about the new rules before they switch you can make an informed choice. You either embrace it or don't. I see nothing wrong with that.

To clarify, my position, I'm with Benjamin Franklin ("Those who give up liberty etc. etc."), this system is not worth the costs, and I have my doubts about how effective it would be as some sort of anti-troll/griefer method. As such, in that final bit, I was talking only of it's social networking aspects, the only solid advantage it has going for it. If they were to implement a successful version of Real ID, it should be transformed into a purely social-oriented service to succeed.

Whispering Death:
Playing games shouldn't have to be taken with the pause and seriousness of writing a thesis or giving an interview with a hiring manager.

That's the problem with a real name system. Everything you do is part of your permanent record in a way nothing in real life is. In a "real name" system you have to be more guarded, more watchful, and use more internal filters than you do in real life. What you say and do has more weight than in real life. What you say when you're 15 will still be able to be discovered by a Google search when your 65. It's a terrible idea.

While from the outset, I knew there was something wrong with the argument that "You just need to be more careful," I had trouble putting it into words, it was more of a feeling, really. But here you have captured it exactly. We are playing games, we are enjoying something in our downtime, it's a chance to take a break from all your socially guarded, real-world interaction. Even if this did stifle trolls (which I doubt it will), it would also stifle debate and bold discourse, and probably just stifle people in general. This runs counter to the current nature of the internet.

Whispering Death:

Playing games shouldn't have to be taken with the pause and seriousness of writing a thesis or giving an interveiew with a hiring manager.

That's the problem with a real name system. Everything you do is part of your permenant record in a way nothing in real life is. In a "real name" system you have to be more guarded, more watchful, and use more internal filters than you do in real life. What you say and do has more weight than in real life. What you say when you're 15 will still be able to be discovered by a Google search when your 65. It's a terrible idea.

You have to use those internal filters in real life. Thats why keyboard warriors say and do all sorts of things on the internet that they wouldn't dare to do in real life. The quiet kid who sits in the corner and wouldn't say boo to a goose is large and in charge on the internet because he threw all of those filters out of the window when he got his keyboard out. I'm not saying that everything you say online needs weeks of research and editing but, in the proposed system, if you are going to be a douche in a public forum you will need to consider the consequences and own your comments. In a similar way you do in any public area.

It is just a change of rules, if you are not happy with it then don't use it. Play or use something else. Some people would like it and use it, others would choose to not use it, It is not inherently evil, just the same as social networking etc.

Mysnomer:
I'm with Benjamin Franklin ("Those who give up liberty etc. etc."), this system is not worth the costs, and I have my doubts about how effective it would be as some sort of anti-troll/griefer method. As such, in that final bit, I was talking only of it's social networking aspects, the only solid advantage it has going for it. If they were to implement a successful version of Real ID, it should be transformed into a purely social-oriented service to succeed.

I'm sure blizzard/Activision wants in on the social networking pie. Real ID would be looking at what they can offer you that facebook can't, hence the games/forums thing. To set it up as a vanilla social networking site is a real up hill struggle against the giant thats facbook. I suppose they might give it a go.

We are playing games, we are enjoying something in our downtime, it's a chance to take a break from all your socially guarded, real-world interaction. Even if this did stifle trolls (which I doubt it will), it would also stifle debate and bold discourse, and probably just stifle people in general. This runs counter to the current nature of the internet.

I go to Martial arts, about 4 sessions a week. This is face to face with my actions attributed to me. We have no trolling, no racial slurs, talking about each others mothers etc. This is an escape from the real world of my work place etc. I don't feel "socially guarded" as you phrase it but there are things you don't say or do. That is the normality of social interactions. Being faceless on the internet is a recent anomaly. its why the IRA and KKK felt the need to wear masks and why being faceless in a mob makes people lose themselves. It allows for douchebaggery. If blizzard changed it and it was not to your liking then you could chose not to use their product, the same way I refuse to use facebook. As far as stifling debate not every forum is the right forum for every debate. The same way I wouldn't start a discussion on the benefits of lowering the age of consent at work or at a group for child abuse survivors.

I wouldn't have used real ID and still don't. That doesn't make it evil or terrible.

Shamus Young:
The internet is populated by rabid and unrepentant assholes who will wade into a reasonable discussion on Zerg vs. Protoss and begin an argument over whether or not Obama ordered NASA to create the Twilight movies as a smokescreen to cover up the fact that the Xbox red ring of death was caused by gays in the military.

Accurate description of the internet. I love you, Shamus. :D

Alot of good points. I'm still down for atleast like the social security bit, or some kinda id for Blizzard to differ banned trolls from just first time assholes. Because, just like with other online games, ip proxy, new account on trial bases, bam troll's back. Now granted, this would only be for Blizzard, and nobody else. Cause it would be nice for someway to get rid of most of the assholes that post n stuff.

I find that one of the things that people tend to forget about in the "privacy" arguement, is that if people decide to hunt down somebody because said person took the "epic pants of internet trolling" in the last run through an instance, that person has a name too and can be charged with assault for kicking thier target in the nads. Why was everyone so afraid of this, I think its great that blizzard was trying to make things better for everyone.

great read Shamus

Shamus Young:
Blizzard's Unreal Real ID

Shamus is 2000 times less famous than Felicia Day, yet he still thinks Real ID is a bad idea.

Read Full Article

Might I

Shamus Young:
Yes. I wrote this last night. And then two hours before the column went up Blizzard changed its mind.

They did this not because of public outcry, but because they wanted to annoy me.

Might I suggest adding a little Disclaimer at the start of the article? stating so :)

What do I want from you? You're doing it already.

I've watched The Guild for a bit, got bored with it and nowadays I pay no attention to Ms Day at all and read every column you throw up here...

I don't do anything Twitterish though.

aside:
The Houses of Griffindor, Slytherin and Twitterish are always at each others throats.

Hah never thought about the famous. BUT being famous, doesn't that already mean u have to get use to being harassed? kinda comes with the territory y should it be any different in games :P

Shamus Young is the guy behind Twenty Sided, DM of the Rings, and Stolen Pixels, Shamus Plays, and Spoiler Warning. All this and he's still 2000 times less famous than Felicia Day. WHAT DO YOU PEOPLE WANT FROM HIM?!?

um being a good looking woman helps. Granted to find a woman in gaming isn't like seeing a unicorn anymore, more like finding an endangered species.

Irregardless of what Blizzard did and didn't do to screw over poor ol' Shamus, the fact remains that Real Names on the Internet is a dividing question of personal preference VS the cold, inevitable grip of b*stards, trolls and the occasional identity theif

My name is Alasdair, this much I feel happy with admitting, but I'm at a stage in my life (only for one more year now...*gulp*) where I have no real-world responsibilities beyond 'turn up for school on time', so I don't think there's much to be stolen from me at the moment

Very nice editorial.

I just cannot wrap my head around how a company who specializes in selling an alternate reality to their playerbase would really expect forcing RL name display would go over with no uproar.

Nice to see someone at blizz set the peace pipe down for a second.

thiosk:
Well, thank goodness they canceled this idea.

Think about it.

You could actually find that guy who ganked you for 14 solid hours in duskwood.

And do things to him. Terrible, terrible things.

(alliance suck)

http://ganked.ytmnd.com

I don't know if that is awesome of extremely sad.

Just love how all the people advocating for this system haven't posted their real names here. Which is a good thing, too, because I don't know I would have been able to not use that name and combined with the information almost everyone mindlessly releases in forumsto figure out where they live and sent them something showing how easily I could have hurt them, if I weren't such a good person. I mean, I've figured out people's real addresses from their email before, it's not that hard--people underestimate how much information they are giving.

They talk of limiting risk, and yet can't realize that posting your real name on the Internet is inherently of the highest risk. You aren't just revealing this information to people you've vetted, or to people who have an interest in keeping your secret. You're revealing it to complete and total strangers. Strangers you are playing a competitive game with.

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