Super Mario Galaxy 2

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Super Mario Galaxy 2

Yahtzee explains his disappointment with Super Mario Galaxy 2.

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Nice article. So someone else knew about the Doki Doki reason.
And if every Mario hater wants Mario to change. Think about it...Look what happened to Sonic.

Good article, and honestly I wonder what game I would suggest to a new gamer, 'cause that's a fairly interesting point ya bring up

Actually, that's exactly what I would do. Shove a classic controller in their paws and put them in front of a classic game to understand some of the basics of gaming like how to use a controller ... and that you have to press start ...

Aura Guardian:
Nice article. So someone else knew about the Doki Doki reason.

I thought the reason we got that whole reskinned Doki Doki Panic was because the original SMB2 was brutally hard, and NoA thought that us Americans were all a bunch of doughy wimps.
At least that's what I believed...

I would love to see Ebert try and play through Shadow without any experience

I personally think that the original Super Mario Bros is a great introduction to gaming. Think about it, that's where many of today's gamers got their start. I also think Super Mario Bros is a great example of games as art. The game is perfectly condensed down to the level where it is fun to play as a beginner and fun to play as an expert.

It somewhat surprises me the you are defending to a certain degree the Mario games.
But it's OK, I guess, I was never a fan of console games nor any Mario games, so I do not really care.

My question is what you said in the original SMG review if I'm not mistaken, what is Mario going to evolve into now? I mean, it has all the bases covered already.

hmmpf......I would either throw gish or World of Goo at a new player. I don't play many 3D platformers so I can't really make a recommendation there, but I guess the cell-shaded comic looking Prince of Persia seems easy enough for a first timer too.

I agree on most parts, but SMB2 wasn't only released in Japan. I live in Sweden, and I have (had, I guess) a PAL version of it. Unless I was special in some way and found the only PAL version in existance, I'd say it was released here too.

I recently gave my sick 5-year-old baby cousin my copy of New Super Mario Bros DS so that he'd have something to do over the months that he'll have to be hospitalized (I won't go over the reasons for that here). It may indeed have been the most brilliant idea I've ever had. The game is the just about the perfect game for a person who has never played a game before - very hard for a beginner, but simple enough to figure out, and of course endless fun - and he loves it. But on the other hand I have to play EVERY TIME I go to see him. Its all he does! Its taken over his little life. But it keeps his mind off the medicine and nurses so it really was genius on my part.

My point here is that Mario is perfectly fine the way it is. If the people who have played this game grow sick of it, there's always a younger generation of little kids willing to play it. I don't think anybody in Nintendo designed Super Mario Galaxy 2 for thirty-year-old curmudgeons with sweet hats.

An old retro game like the original Mario or Sonic-perhaps even Mega Man would work out pretty well.

A turn-based RPG would also work pretty well IMO. I would have to suggest the original Phantasy Star quadrilogy, as there's enough variety and change form game to game to really see the changes, and the story works out beautifully over the whole course of the series. since it's turn based (and rather simple for an RPG), it wouldn't be too hard for a beginner to try out (unlike something as complex as FF7's Materia, or FFX's Sphere Grid).

So, that's my two cents.

Real-Time Strategy games got many a player into gaming. Warcraft 2 and Starcraft for instance. Also, most MMOs work, as they let you move around in 3D without any complex movements needed. Just walk from point A to B.

But yes, Little Big Planet is a great first game, especially with the co-op aspect.

You know good suggestion with LBP, I'll keep that in mind next time I wanna introduce someone to gamin

I know what happened to "that guy". We killed him. We beat him down until he was a stain on the floor.

I find this column to be better constructive criticism than the video review.
I guess I was expecting this kind of reaction to Yahtzee, him being a mortal enemy of most sequel titles and always demanding more creativity and originality from his games.

That was constructive. Seriously, IMO this article is worth more than the review. This time, at least.

okay, yahtzee, i've never disagreed with you more than i do now. to say that each new mario game has had significant game play improvements/changes is making you sound like another fanboy trying to reassure himself that he's not exactly just that, a crazed, mouth-foaming fan boy. and mario galaxy 2 seems no different to me. the only thing that has significantly improved over the years is the graphics. other than that, we've had one or two things added to each iteration. and this is the exact reason i've grown so bored to tears of them. well, i never did like the 3d ones much anyway (the single handed BIGGEST change to mario, ever, but since then, it's just been that one or two things changing).

Regarding Mario rehashing the same storyline:

Don't watch if you get offended by harsh language. Everybody else, enjoy.

Very well said Yahtzee! I wonder what game I would recommend for a first time player on the Wii, since it's the only new console I have. Hmm, the new SMB would seem like a start, but doesn't do much for learning about 3-D...The Subspace emissary mode in Brawl is a good one too, but again its just a 2-D sidescroller. Y'know what? Maybe that's enough, once they build up their reflexes and sense of virtual physics the transition to 3-D will be as natural to them as it was to us. I like this because it means there will always be a place for sidescrollers.

Totally agree on LBP. Started my six-year-old gamer prodigy - I mean, niece on 3D environment avatar control with that one; still one of her favorites. And god it is FUN when she figures out how to break the game in the level editor mode. (Note: the most used item is Rockets. I love she's already developed a Mad Scientist laugh at this early age.)

Well, the first game i ever played was super mario 64, however i don't remember if it took some time to get into. I was 4 at the time though, but I think what I'm trying to say that it varies from people to people on how hard it is to get into games.

Hehe, someone hasnt had coffee this morning? But, I do see your point on the casual gaming thing...Mario does need some practice to play, and you cannot just throw someone into and expect them to do well!

Yahtzee, this is why I respect you so much. Even if you are fond of sweeping generalisations and hurling abuse at developers, audiences at critics alike, there's a strong underlying reasoning behind it all, and you've expressed it exceptionally well here.

Personally, I hope that the next mainline Mario game will continue to innovate again. While I've greatly enjoyed both Galaxy and Galaxy 2, I'm quite aware of the "expansion pack" nature of it, and have been carefully ignoring all the hand-crafted hand-holding Nintendo has packed into the game. It's much better to play in a relaxed, one-hour-per-day way I've found.

Mario certainly isn't casual, but Nintendo is determined to make their idyllic polo-shirt wearing happy families cross the gap into more complex 3D gaming.

Ahh LBP,its Glorious!!!

hmmpf......I would either throw gish or World of Goo at a new player. I don't play many 3D platformers so I can't really make a recommendation there, but I guess the cell-shaded comic looking Prince of Persia seems easy enough for a first timer too.

I hated, HATED, the controls for Gish. Moving that blob around was so frustrating that I quit after about 4 levels. I can't imagine how much worse it would be for someone who's never played a 2D platformer.

I agree World of Goo would be great for a newbie, but I kind of consider it a casual game. Unless you are masochistic enough to go for OCD.

One time my mom decided she was going to play super smash bros. She couldn't even navigate on a 2D plane. She just sat there jumping up and down confused by the very idea of an analog stick.

Some people are hopeless.

Personally, if I had to recommend a game to someone new to gaming, I would probably recommend something along the lines of Ratchet and Clank. Excellent difficulty curve, unique sense of humour, solid platforming combined with a bit of 3rd person shooting action and a nice story, that isn't too complex to understand but not too measly to dismiss without a second glance.

New games being unfriendly to brand-new gamers is one of the reasons I'm sad to see tutorial stages disappear from games.

Let me clarify that: when I say "tutorial stage" I mean an entirely separate level from the game itself where the player navigates an obstacle-course-like level where they learn the basics and have the freedom to do so without a support character yelling at them to hurry up. The original Half-Life had this with the "Hazard Course," and even the Opposing Force expansion put you through an entertaining mini-Boot Camp. Deus Ex had a whole "training and evaluation" level where you saw how you could solve one scenario with different techniques. The whole idea of this stage was to be optional, so veterans could gloss over it but newbies could practice it again and again, making sure they have the technique down correctly (instead of getting it right once by luck and being forced on to the next item with no idea what just happened).

Nowadays (god that makes me sound old) the tutorial is crammed into the first level of the actual game, and usually in an environment that doesn't encourage exploration or proper pacing. Take the first level of Knights of the Old Republic for instance: you're on a ship being blown apart and have to make a mad-dash for the escape pods; how is that a good time to learn about inventory management? The intro to Mass Effect 2 wasn't much better: new gameplay is being introduced while you're fighting for your life against killer robots. By jamming the lesson plan into the first level, it actually slows the game down and makes replay more irritating because you know you'll have to see all those tips and pop-ups again.

Also, most MMOs work, as they let you move around in 3D without any complex movements needed. Just walk from point A to B.

I want you to read Shamus's column and then go to your room and think about what you did.

I agree that LBP is a great first game for gaming newbies. Personally, I think that NSMBWii is as well.

LPB as someones first game? For realzies? The awkward 3D shenanigans and floaty controls make me throw the controller at a wall and I've played video games for thousands of hours during 10 or so years.

I'd probably recommend some sort of not too violent FPS game like Half-Life 2. I think the fast pace and pretty easy but pretty fun puzzles would be good for a starter.

About the whole casual thing. Most long time gamers take all of their skills for granted. All the skills you have with games, a newcomer has none of it. Zip, zero, nothing. That includes basic moving and looking. Moving and looking is a massive challenge in and of itself, and add in the many buttons, it becomes a near-impassibly barrier.

To a new gamer, I can't really decide what they should play, depending on what they like. If they like Sci Fi, then despite it's issues, and if you've never played a Halo before to seee the general uncreativity, it would be a good first game. Not so easy that you can play it blindfolded, but not so challenging that you tear your hair out. My first game was Quake 3, and I got good at it within 20 minutes.

First I would like to say that Yahtzee is right about Galaxy 2 being a cop out for the Mario franchise which is why i didn't get it. Now I think that he is being slightly unfair to it. Let's look at the facts it is one of the few Mario sequels that happen to be on the same console as the last Mario game. So the game that will try to change up the formula would have been expected on the Wii 2 or whatever stupid name they can think of. This game is simply a bone being thrown at the frenzy of Mario fans to tide them over. Also as far as sequels go this game does do more work than other sequels and it is still a good game. Though it is still an annoying cop-out that Nintendo could have avoided since they had the resources to avoid it. All in all the fan boys are happy and the other people can ignore it for the more original things that people keep ignoring. Look up Little King's Story before you say it's stupid. Most of the strategy is throwing all the troops at an enemy, there are a few control issues, and the reason it doesn't use a Gamecube or Classic controller are unmentioned but often wondered. Though it has a strange art style, world, comedy and tries something different.

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