Stolen Pixels #216: Pull It Down!

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Stolen Pixels #216: Pull It Down!

Before you unleash the full fury of the Force, make sure you know what you're supposed to be doing with it.

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That. Part. Sucked.

It's not enough that you have to deal with attacks while pulling the ship down SLOWLY AS HELL.

But then they make the ship attempt to reset itself as you fight off the attackers.

Oh, you DIDN'T want me to destroy it? My bad.

That was pretty good, and I would call the constant powering up of series over time Dragon Ball Syndrome myself, as that's the most famous one. DB was horrible for it, moreso that they didn't actually think too much about it. "This shall be Super Sayain." "But if he's the strongest thing in the universe, how will this keep interest?" "He's not. But he can gain SS2, and then SS3 for the next guy, and SS4 and so on and so forth. Also, HIS HAIR WILL CONTINUE TO GROW LONGER AND LONGER UNTIL IT FILLS THE PLANET! Insert evil laugh here."

That just seems so silly...Why not jsut Jedi the god powers and be done with it? Seems to be going that way...

You can joke about moving around a planet with the force, but how else do you think the Death Star overcame the disadvantage of being too big to realistically work?

I see the point of objecting to this Force arms race - but, I have to admit, I really liked the super-powered Jedi in Genndy Tartakovsky's original Clone Wars series (Mace Windu ripping the rivets out of a battle droid and shooting them with the Force like bullets was pretty darn cool; also, General Grievous wasn't such a damn pansy as in the last movie).

And so what if they move a planet? Doctor Who did it using a phone booth.

Well, IIRC, in one of the star wars tabletop RPG, there was the rule about what mass a jedi can move and the biggest thing was a planet. I think it could not be done with only one jedi but many working together.

Shamus Young:
Mark my words: Sooner or later, a Jedi is going to be moving a planet around. It is inevitable.

Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways.

I think the trope you're looking for is "Lensman Arms Race".

My friend who reads the star wars books told me about one jedi who was totally useless at all force powers except one. He couldn't persuade anyone, he couldnt move object with his mind, he couldn't do the superrun/jump that they seemed to have magiced in Episode 1... but he could absorb energy better then anyone (think Darth Vader just absorbing blaster shots into his hand). Apparently he could just walk up to huge explosions and absorb the blast totally into his body. (Though he often ended up naked, as his clothes didn't have jedi powers)

Quirks like that are good.

I think the worse case of this however, is Wolverine, back when he was first created, he would practically die if shot alot, and spend weeks recoving (it would kill a man, but he could heal quickly... but not instantly). Now we have him recovering from a nuclear explosion in the face in minutes, regrowing his whole body from a skelleton! - Although this might be that other trope of "A superhero is only as powerful as he is popular"

What's even more hilarious to me is seeing the Lucas apologists thrash any of these one-upmanship stories that wasn't directly written by him (though it was approved, mind you), while defending his direct work that, unlike the one-upmanship, decides to just wallow in unfunny and overused oneliners and characterization that makes your brain hurt.

Really...there's nothing wrong with one-upmanship so long as it doesn't go too far. I'd argue that bringing down a Star Destroyer with the Force through considerable effort is somewhere just on the limit for Star Wars (heck, they did say they were gonna go over the top with TFU to begin with anyway), but on the other hand Luke being capable of summoning black holes or the Emperor somehow surviving and coming back in the form of clones?....egh...no thanks...

Still, I do agree - less is more whenever dealing with such stuff. And of all the novels of the expanded universe in Star Wars, I think I like the ones that don't feature cool sabers or powers and promptly make a fetish out of it. :p

Pfft, screw planets, they're going to have a Jedi invert the force of a black hole to create a dark matter alternate universe that he will then cut in half with a lightsaber three light years long to release all the trapped souls of the people who died in deep space.

And then eat the pieces in a sandwich.

Edit:

Loonerinoes:
[...] but on the other hand Luke being capable of summoning black holes or the Emperor somehow surviving and coming back in the form of clones?....egh...no thanks...

I did not read any of these posts before I said this - can he really summon black holes in some place? I'm kind of saddened.

Didn't vader telekinetically choke a dude? Once over a great distance, just by looking at him?

Well, regarding a Jedi moving planets around, KotOR2 had a Sith who could murder entire planets with his mind...

Shamus Young:
Stolen Pixels #216: Pull It Down!

Before you unleash the full fury of the Force, make sure you know what you're supposed to be doing with it.

Read Full Article

I know Shamus Young is a little more busy than to quopte him directly, but:

I believe the hyperspace move was during a trilogy of books that involved a General name Thrawn. I don't think they actually moved the entire fleet through hyperspace, I believe they used the force to amplify something...

I do, however agree with how incredibly over blown it is. Considering Anakin Skywalker was never able to take down a Star Destroyer, you kind of wonder at the ending.

I think the producers of these works are just trying to see what the next big hype is. I find it kind of pointless when it gets to this point.

Jandau:
Well, regarding a Jedi moving planets around, KotOR2 had a Sith who could murder entire planets with his mind...

Yeah but he could only do that if large amounts of force sensitives were there. And besides, KotOR2 had bigger problems...

Anakin never TRIED to take down a Star Destroyer. He had legions of ships on his side to do that kind of stuff for him.

All Star Wars evidence so far suggests that, hem hem, "Size matters not". So, if you can, say, move a cup, you can, theoretically, move a ship. The only reason it's harder is because you SEE it is harder in your own MIND!

So the only reason random unnamed apprentice dude in The Force Unleashed can do all the things he can do is because he THINKS he should be able to, because Vader raised him from a child to believe that even the "power to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force". Being raised in such a mental condition, and possibly being psychotic (He stood up to Vader as a child. That's not bravery, that's madness) allows him to be the most dramatic Force adept ever!

...Luke would still kill him, though. Plot armour and all that. Also the fact that Vader never bother with basic lightsaber instruction (And indeed, never even gave his apprentice anything beyond a training saber. (And yes, this is my explaination for why it can't cut through flesh like a lightsaber can. It makes sense to me!!))

I now notice that I've diverged from the point of the comic severely...

I admit I've run into the same, very real problem in other games.
For instance, Empire Earth II, an ally nation sent a message that I mistook for a hostile one, and I deployed seven nuclear bombers to his cities across the map.
Turns out "negotiations" doesn't mean what I think it means. (I blame Anakin Skywalker)

Who needs the death star? Just use the force to fling the planet into the nearest star / cold empty void.

Just came here to drop this: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cron_Supernova. In the Star Wars comics one Sith Lord caused ten stars to Supernova, that's gotta be up there on the one uping scale.

one upsmenship! the bane of all things consistent!

Yeh now that u pointed it out i have notice that the force can more or less do EVERYTHING XD use to be it only gave u Sixth sense and mind suggestions.

The most stupid part of that whole series ever.

Even topping Midichlorians and Jar-Jar.

If you can TK a Star-Destroyer, why the living hell would you have ever needed the Death Star?

Starkiller here could just force-choke Alderaan.

But yeah Shamus, Star Wars had Vader choking Admiral Kendal Ozzel, Ben Tk'd his saber to his hand; there was a bit of TK during the first movie.

In fact, given that level of TK ability, that trench looks an awful lot like a X-Wing Junkyard now.

He can move Star Destroyers, but an AT-ST or a Purge Trooper? You're shit out of luck. There are all sorts of weird force powers out there like Sith Battle Mastery that Jacen Solo has in Legacy of the Force.

Forget the size of the Star Destroyer, what about the Star Destroyer's own ability to keep itself in the air? You're dealing with some pretty bigtime engine/repulsor power there. I mean, if a guy can do something like THAT with the force, what the HELL is he doing waving around a flashy glowstick? Is it like Yugioh, only instead of the fate of the world being decided by children's card games, it's lightsaber duels?

"I have enough force power to pull a star destroyer out of the sky, destroy entire fleets with a hyperspace wormhole thingy, or even make an illusionary fleet that's nearly indistinguishable from a real one! I will easily conquer this galaxy! And now... now it's time to d-d-d-d-d-d-d-DUEL! *draws lightsaber*"

By the way, all those things I mentioned? Someone in the EU did, though not all the same individual. That's not even getting into teleportation or time travel, which also appear in the EU list of force powers. Straight-up flight seems to be one of the few things inexplicably barred from force powers. They can levitate, slow falls, but they can't go Superman. Yet. Though I wouldn't be surprised if there's a "Force Bulletproof" ability.

The way the force gets treated these days has turned me off to Star Wars. Or at least turned me off to anything force-related in Star Wars. I'm to the point now where I actually smile during the Order 66 scene...

Shamus Young:
Mark my words: Sooner or later, a Jedi is going to be moving a planet around. It is inevitable.

I asked around a little bit, and apparently...

"Moving the core of a star around was done using Naga Sadow's Sith Supernova Spell- yanked the core of a star from it, and threw it in the direction of the enemy fleet."

Not a planet, but close enough to make no difference, methinks.

So, you can go on weeping now, Shamus ;)

God I hated that part. Being assaulted, when you try to fend the enemies off, the entire ship resets itself slowly but surely, tedious but bringing it down is an amazing feat nonetheless.

CitySquirrel:
Didn't vader telekinetically choke a dude? Once over a great distance, just by looking at him.

Yep, definitely telekinetic choke, right there in the first movie. Other force powers involved a whole lot of clairvoyant sensing (especially of other force wielders), the classic jedi mind trick, and a little bit of precognition. The second movie had more telekinesis and precognition, less clairvoyance, no jedi mind trick. Third movie, less telekinesis again (though more than in the first movie), but the mind trick was back and the clairvoyant/precognitive/ESP angle was again strong.

Darth Vader doesnt have to go super saiyin. But i wonder how he would look if he did...

Funny thing about shamus's last comment, jedi (sith, really) already have moved planets, according to the books. Apparently, ancient sith were capable of detonating stars with a bit of concentration, but through millenia of fighting and destroying eachother's holocrons, most jedi/sith knowledge was lost. In the prequels, people knew a bit more of what the force was capable of than when luke first picked up a lightsaber, hence the splendid use of it. The force could always do the unbelieveable, it's just a matter of those using it.
/nerd tangeant

EDIT: ninja'd, but nonetheless, thank you, Whoracle.

Shamus Young:
Without looking, I can infer that there is a TV Tropes page somewhere that describes the tendency of fictional settings to continually ramp up the power level.

Its called Power Creep (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PowerCreepPowerSeep).

I thought the whole explanation for the difference between original trilogy and second trilogy powers was practice and constant use? Doesn't the second trilogy occur during a time when the institutional training is present to properly teach techniques. And aren't the Jedi taught from the age toddlers? All the other crazy stuff is beyond my want or ability to explain, but I thought the difference between trilogies had always been clear.

Sweet, it's Dragonball syndrome at its worst. If the series drags on, the bloke will be able to obliterate the entire galaxy by farting...

I actually had a discussion about that with a friend of mine in physics. He was a major SW geek (to the point of wearing shirts and playing KotOR before class), and even he agreed that it's getting ridiculous. It takes the mystery out of it, the vulnerability, and the relatability. Here's how I gauge whether it's still feasible or not: can Sauron pull it off?

LaughingAtlas:
EDIT: ninja'd, but nonetheless, thank you, Whoracle.

Thanks. I had to ask around myself for that :)

CitySquirrel:
Didn't Vader telekinetically choke a dude? Once over a great distance, just by looking at him?


Well he did insult Vader's beliefs.

DeadlyYellow:


Well he did insult Vader's beliefs.

Well played, sir.

Kwatsu:
I think the trope you're looking for is "Lensman Arms Race".

Tohron:
Its called Power Creep (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PowerCreepPowerSeep).

How about Beyond The Impossible, people? Although on the other hand, that one implies author(s) one-upping himself/themselves over the course of the work, VERY VERY OFTEN. So it's probably not the right one.

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