Zero Punctuation: Shadow of the Colossus

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You know, I always wondered what Yahtzee really thought of this game (I knew he appreciated it at least since he's referenced it favourably before) but I never really had much hope that he'd actually review it, even as a retro review. So this was a really interesting review to watch.

I also liked seeing his brief commentary on ICO, which in my opinion is arguably a better game- it has a lot more gameplay depth (it's a puzzle platform action adventure, while Shadow is more minimalist), has a better story (not actually difficult, as once again Shadow's plot is very minimalist), a MUCH better camera (something I'm surprised Yahtzee didn't touch on, as Shadow's camera sometimes spazzes out completely when you're particularly close to a colossus) and dispenses with the unnecessary GUI altogether, making the game more immersive. But I think Shadow of the Colossus just gets more recognition than ICO because it has giant stone monsters in it. They're both brilliant, but if you ask me ICO is just that little bit more so.

PTSpyder:
Thank god we finally got to get yahtzee's opinion, which he had already made perfectly clear countless times before, about an over hyped, half a decade old title that quite frankly fucking sucked ass. That's right everyone, it sucked.

The title alone was boring enough and did nothing to inspire players to rush out there and pick it up. From the damn title alone you got the feeling that this thing would be there for a long, long time and could be picked up whenever. The controls were not laid out well, the world had dyslexia when it came to pacing, and the boss fights were boring. GREATEST GAME EVER!!1! No, just the most over hyped game ever. Stop praising mediocrity.

You are wrong. Sorry, you're entitled to your opinion, but it's wrong. Sure, you didn't have to like the game if it doesn't particularly appeal to you (maybe you'd like it more if Wander had a rocket launcher and Mono had enormous tits), but it does not "suck". It's not even "mediocre". Maybe it isn't the "GREATEST GAME EVER!!1!" but if you say it simply "sucks ass" then you're wrong. Sorry.

Love this game. Story was confusing but the game itself made up for it. I often found myself imagining my own stories as I would play through it. Great game, great review, and yay for bucking the trend and reviewing something other than what everyone in the world tells you to.
I've not even seen gameplay footage of SC2 and I'm already sick of hearing about it...
But of course, that's just what hype tends to do to me.
Anyway, back OT: Great review, Yahtzee. Well done, though I would disagree on the point of the smaller colossi. Sure they weren't as visually impressive as the bigger ones but I thought they were pretty thrilling in their own way just because they were so much faster.
Still, to each their own! Looking forward to the next one.

Zhukov:
...aaaand the crowd goes wild.

And "crowd" includes myself. I've always wanted to see Yahtzee review this game.

Incidentally, if the game release schedule has dried up, would you consider a review of Metro 2033? If nothing else, it's a game with plenty of flaws to criticise.

Oh shit, who didn't LOVE the part when you have a children on your back... my god it was annoying trying to aim with that little fellow kicking my arms so I was sure to miss the damn SUPER speedy rats.

Good times.

So, I take it Yahtzee liked this one...

I understand that your not into RTS games but the only one Ive ever really seen you review was halo wars, and that blew serious balls. At least give a good RTS a review before you ignore them completely.
I honestly don't care if you rip it apart because you always find the problems that everyone has with the games to rip them apart on. In my opinion SC2 is great but then again I have always liked RTS games. Any way thats just my little opinion in this giant mess of comments that will probably never be read.

Christ, you must love saying something nice about a game for once.

..And no, I'm not saying hw good that must feel.

Personally I'd love to play Shadow of the Colossus, since I never had the opportunity to do so. Meh, I bet this game costs way too much on E-bay these days.

Can I come up to the tree-house too, Yahtzee? I'll bring chips (or crisps as I believe they're called in Australia)!

TheBaron87:

You realize that the vast, VAST majority of people playing SC2 absolutely suck at it, right? They might have potential, but even a ton of people that still play Starcraft 1 have no idea how to play. You can't base a game's depth off how its worst players play. The only reason tabletop games don't have "spamming units" is because the sort of casual players that actually expect that sort of thing to work anywhere above bronze won't make the commitment to pay for all the crap needed to play tabletop. Dawn of War is not a bad game, you're just straw-manning it based on its worst players.

Oh yah, maybe having played with the pro's qualifies as "straw-manning it based on its worst players".

TheBaron87:

Warforger:

Eldarion:

You have to use tactical thinking, fight for map control and preserve your units in Dawn of war. Same with starcraft but you can afford to lose troops if you did more resources in damage to your opponent. I don't know what games you are playing.

Yah which is like the first or second tier. Let's put it like this, if you lose one squad of Space Marines in DoW, is it that devastating? No you can just build more. You could throw away an army then build another one while the enemy is walking towards your base.

That claim is laughable at best. Especially in the face of games like World In Conflict or Ground Control.

Seriously? Re-read what you just typed, and tell me how a game would ever end if every time you lose your army you could just "build another one while the enemy is walking towards your base." Losing military units without inflicting comparable damage leaves an opening in your defenses, which must be addressed by focusing on military production which harms the rate of economic growth, or taking the chance of not focusing on production which risks a counter-attack that can REDUCE your economy, giving the opponent a long-term advantage. It also shrinks the size of your future army while leaving the opponent's army the same size, which he can continue to bolster to remain at a military advantage and contain you while he expands, or he can expand immediately without risk of being overpowered, either way putting you at a long-term disadvantage that can cost the game. Only a fool would charge straight into an enemy base after a close victory and hit the rebuilt army. Any decent player would use the victory to establish map control and deny expansion while he secures the lead. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Have fun staying in Bronze forever.

Ahuh. Surely you knew that was a exaggeration? How's staying in Freshman English forever doing for you?

Let me rephrase what I find wrong. There isn't as much tactical decisions as much as it is who can spam faster then the other by having the most economy points, this is how by the end of tier 2 the strategy is over because now your just focusing on amassing the largest army and picking off your enemy, so basically you win by early game, otherwise you just sit around the rest of the game achieving little.

My point was that every individual unit is very unimportant and disposable, if you lose one space marine squad, fluff wise its devastating, but game wise time to get another one.

Well how about that. THAT is doing something different. I really enjoy your show Yahtzee. I respect that you are exploring an element outside your niche....so thumbs up from me. Seeing the odd good game (especially nostalgic) gives comparison and is entertaining.
You did that with psyconotts, correct? (Yes, the spelling is crap...but nothing like a pint after work, eh). Anyways, keep up the good work man.

Well done ^~^! Thanks for the upload ^~^! I have heard that Shadow of Colossus is a great game. I suppose this just confirms it >~<!

Warforger:

TheBaron87:

Oh wow, you're no higher than gold, are you? Spam the best unit? Yeah, don't worry about scouting, adapting, positioning, cheesing, harassing, expanding, denying, sniping, hiding, or countering, just mass Stalkers every single game. You're guaranteed to win, right?! Come back when you're Diamond, and I /might/ take you seriously.

Positioning? Ha. Funny. The rest are all aspects of spamming the best unit. Fuck I was good at Warhammer 40k TT and Chess but when I got on DoW all everyone was talking about was what unit was the best to spam.

Eldarion:

You have to use tactical thinking, fight for map control and preserve your units in Dawn of war. Same with starcraft but you can afford to lose troops if you did more resources in damage to your opponent. I don't know what games you are playing.

Yah which is like the first or second tier. Let's put it like this, if you lose one squad of Space Marines in DoW, is it that devastating? No you can just build more. You could throw away an army then build another one while the enemy is walking towards your base.

That claim is laughable at best. Especially in the face of games like World In Conflict or Ground Control.

"Is one unit of marines a devastating loss?" It would be if you were playing anyone decent. The sudden loss of 200 requisition+squad reinforcements and heavy weapons upgrades can delay your teching speed more than enough to cost you the game. If you let yourself lose squads and you opponent retreats/dances/outfights you and doesn't lose squads sure you can build another marine squad, but your opponent can also build another squad and have those troops plus the ones you didn't manage to kill. You'd get overwhelmed or out teched. You clearly don't play anyone even half good at that game. Any dawn of war player worth anything will tell you to do your best to maintain map console and to avoid losing squads. You just didn't play beyond the tutorial level. Any RTS is just spamming units if you don't know how to play.

Seeing as how you clearly never played more than one or two matches with another first timer, I don't think you can judge a game you don't know squat about.

You know, there are Colossi in SC2....
Just sayin'

I've no idea why people bother discussing SC2 with people that say things like "It's only mining minerals and spamming the best units".
Would you discuss Team Fortress 2 with someone that said "It's just cartoons jumping around" or COD4 with someone that said it was "just walking around and occasionally clicking your mouse or pressing a button"?
No, you'd understand the person has no clue what they're talking about or are just simplifying an universally acclaimed game for the sake of trolling.
Don't feed the trolls, people. Just be glad you get to play SC2 and experience what is, by all accounts, an amazing game.

Are people still bugging yahtzee about sc2? the dood has about as much interest in the genre as he does jrpgs, leave him alone people :p

Also I never finished Shadow of the Collossus, cant remember why. Pretty sure I only had one or 2 bosses left as well.

What a quinky-dink! I just bought shadow of the colosus last week!!!

That was... unexpected. I was so sure it was going to be SC2 this week! What next, he reviews Beyond good and evil? He defiantly should do that.

Shadow of colossus is just too repetetive for my tastes, the monster might be different for every encounter but one is essentially doing the exact same thing 100 times over in a different setting. REPETITIVE

Well I've been reading alot of posts on this and I just want to comment on the many people who keep saying it'll be hard to find. I usually can find a copy of it at my local Game Stops. If you don't have one, well bummer. But it's not too hard to find that you absolutely must go online to find.

OT: Well... I guess that was on topic? Well still got to beat the game, but man I hate having to find the Colossi sometimes only because my internal compass is worse than my compass in games. And I hate using the map just because I'm stubborn... Only thing I wanna say right now.

Well Yahtzee, it's your loss. Starcraft 2 is really good.

Anyways, I must play someday Shadow of Collosus, wanted to do it a long time ago.

I never thought you'd make this review, event after seeing the one about Silent Hill 2. Thank you, seriously.

This game made me witness one of the neighbourhood tough guys feel really bad about killing an enemy character. Incidentally, the giant low-flying snake-thing. Because, basically, it's just flying away scared of you.

Seeing that made me believe.

And yes, Shadow of Colossus is damn, damn, DAMN good. Points for pointing out the points where its flaws and shortcomings are more noticeably pointable.

The "fall-and-climb-it-up-again" thing got bad sometimes, but the great atmosphere and gameplay made it really bearable. Most of the time.

Yahtzee:
Action games lose effectiveness when they're just a steady stream of nasties lining up for sucker punches.

*cof*God of War*cof*.

ark123:
Don't feed the trolls, people.

Like most sound advices, most people won't listen.

Goddamnit, I reloaded the page five times and my post didn't show up. So I post again and then it does.

Pretty sneaky, you slow updating server you.

QUINTIX:

riottrio:

On topic, its odd how Yahtzee's description of the Collosus made me think about some of the Monsters you get to fight at later stages in Monster Hunter. Sorry if i set down some firewood, i'll just leave it at that.

Let's get off the SC2 high horse and deal with the fact that some one compared SOTC to Monster Hunter.
Let's start here: platforming combat > bonking things on teh head with Excel Spreadsheet stats.

when did i say i was comparing the fighting styles? but now you mention it, i just think you sounded really ignorant in your post... seriously, when i'm hitting things on the head in MonsterHunter, i'm not thinking "734 damage that time! ooh, a critical, thats a nice 1926damage in the bag :D minus that from the 9000000 health it has to get...". i'm instead concentrating on how the monster moves and deciding my next action. (such as which attack i should use next, whether i should finish my combo and roll, which direction i should roll in or whether i have enough time to sheath my weapon to fully focus on dodging. as well as which area i should attack next in order to break more parts of its body, which could put me at a advantage later on in the fight) Yahtzee's anti-excel and powerpoint is funny, but to actually not recognise that as hyperbole; genuinly believing the game is comparable to such applications is something that i want to find hilarious, but simply can't.

However, i do admit, platforming is fun and what experience i have with it (Prince of Persia, Obscure, etc.) i have thoroughly enjoyed, so i can see the many positives of it being a core part of combat. However, i've never played Shadow of the Collosus, and can't really say much about the fighting style (not nearly as much as i could in Monster Hunter), so i can't really compare the two. But at least i admit i am ignorant and don't bother trying.

My first post in this thread was referring to how the descriptions of these Collosus could also be fitted onto certain Monsters from the MH game, i.e. making the earth shake uncontrollably as they merely walk, parts of the environment literally growing off them... that was all i was comparing, perhaps only gently highlighting the fact that Yahtzee missed out on some of these epic fights because they were too far ingame, despite going through the well-reknowned long time it takes to ride your horse from one destination to another. it was supposed to be a smile and move-on because no-one gives a toss post.

and wait, Soul Calibur 2 highhorse? i know it was a good game, but you've just got to let it go that not everyone is willing to play it (!)

(!)<-- used to highlight sarcasm, i'm just making sure. incase you were ignorant of that too

I really don't get it what you sc2 fanboys are trying to achieve by forcing him to play a game from a genre he doesn't like. Like you would play something like that.

Anyway, Yahtzee mentioned Deus Ex in quite a few reviews already. Wish he would make a review of it. Best game ever, IMO.

Almost sounded like it hurt him to admit it was Damn Good. Hope that ending didn't cripple him.

...And so we come one step closer to revealing Yahtzee's top five greatest games of all time tag team!

I have a Ps2 just rotting in the corner, where can I get this game today?

FallenMessiah88:
...And so we come one step closer to revealing Yahtzee's top five greatest games of all time tag team!

Top 6+. They are:
Silent Hill 2
Psychonaunts
Portal
Painkiller(Shurikens and Lightning!)
Prince of Persia
Shadow of the Colossus

..as far as I can figure

That Damn Good segment reminded me of Blackadder Goes Forth, where Melchett keeps screaming Now Then!

hmmm i must try Shadow of the Colossus sometime i was a becouse everyone bit afraid of of trying it becouse everyone said the game ICO was good then i bought it and became bored and i hated the princes couse she could have just as easily be replaced by a magical dog or a key.
it also buged me wery much how when youre holding her hand and runing the controler twitches wich is cool the first time but later on it realy buged me (maybe im just petty over stuff like that)

but i look forward to trying out SotC

Rickyvantof:

Decabo:
Men and women both have X chromosomes. Just thought I'd clear that up.

He said "An extra x-chromosome"
If I'm not mistaking.

I've listened to it multiple times and he clearly says "with an X-chromosome." I promise.

It's not a big deal, though. We all make mistakes. I just thought I'd point it out.

Well personally, I didn't like this game. But 'twas a good review. But the summer drought should be letting up soon w/ Mafia 2 and Kane and Lynch 2.

There are actually more games he's reviewed he DID like but had more criticisms for, like Fallout 3 and Just Cause 2.

PlasticTree:
Christ, you must love saying something nice about a game for once.

..And no, I'm not saying hw good that must feel.

Personally I'd love to play Shadow of the Colossus, since I never had the opportunity to do so. Meh, I bet this game costs way too much on E-bay these days.

Though I don't know where you're from, you can get the game for pretty cheap on Amazon. Here's the listing for it actually:

http://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Colossus-Playstation-2/dp/B0009I6S0O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1281571052&sr=8-1

It's a great game totally worth playing. If you've got the funds to spare and can actually use Amazon...totally do it.

As far as Ebay is concerned, a quick search shows pretty much the same buyout bid range for a few of the auctions, around 9-10 bucks USD. So it isn't too expensive. :)

And no, I don't have a copy there, I'd never sell my copy of that game. I'm just giving a hand to someone with interest in the game. :P

This is what I like about zero punctuation. Every time he puts some creative adjective and make fun. There's a mountain between you and your destination like a fat guy in front of you in cinema. And I don't know why, the last bit had me laughing in tears.

I mean Shadow of the Colossus is a very unique game and all but it's just not my type of game and I wish he would review more old school ps2 game like this.

Understandable that he doesn't want to play SC2. Some genres just don't appeal to everyone (obviously).

That said, I really liked SC2

I bet he would like SC2's story, prob not the gameplay, Sad really cause SC2 has a very solid story.

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