Zero Punctuation: Shadow of the Colossus

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God of War 3 did it better.

MajoraPersona:

angelblack:

MajoraPersona:
It's like trying to get a famous neuro-surgeon to perform a heart transplant; wrong area of expertise.

This is stupid. People are not asking Bioware to make an RTS, they are asking a critic to criticize.

There's a HUGE difference between MAKING something (where the term 'area of expertise' applies) and CRITICIZING something.

Yes. One involves investing a large amount of time to create, from a basic model, an interactive experience from a jumble of data. The other requires a steady hand, intense focus for hours on end, and results in aiding someone in surviving a little bit longer. Or has the nature of similes changed since I was ten years old?

Are you one of those people who weren't there for the whole Ebert debacle? Where a famous movie critic said that video games aren't art? Just as the title of 'movie critic' does not make one suited to review video games, being a 'video game critic' does not automatically make someone an expert on how video games work.

Yahtzee does not play RTS games. He does not enjoy them. Therefore, he would not be suited to tell others what is wrong with the game, as, for the most part, he may not be clear on what is and what isn't supposed to be integral to the game genre as a whole.

Yahtzee's reviews tend to focus on pointing out flaws in a variety of games. Variety, in this case, refers to primarily FPS games, sprinkled with the occasional platformer, RPG, or action game. Plus one or two about Guitar Hero. And the USA.

For those of you who aren't completely stupid, I apologize for this rant. It's only said the things that have been stated a million times before, but I feel it bears repeating until everybody gets it.

TLDR: No you.

THANK YOU.

Dear Croshaw,

I just wanted to thank you for reviewing Shadow of the Colossus. SOTC is my all time favorite game, when I saw the review I was so surprised and afraid to watch the video in fear that you would somehow pound it down in to a pulp since you are Mr. Croshaw and you seem to do that for ever game. When I saw that you were actually praising the game, that made me happy, for now other people can know how great it is and other people will have a chance to play it and see how great the game really is and it can finally get its praise it deserves. I love that game, and I am glad to see that someone else thinks the same thing. All I need to say Croshaw is, thank you very much.

Talienforn

Would be interesting to see an SC2 review. Anyway, this one was really very good. Gotta love Yahtzee's taste in games.

Say what you will of Starcraft II to and the entire RTS genre, at least they're games. Not like this grab and stab series of what are essentially quick time events.

Shadow of the Colossus=Colossal Fail

esliang:
Would be interesting to see an SC2 review. Anyway, this one was really very good. Gotta love Yahtzee's taste in games.

No it would not! He would just rag on it for being an RTS it would be a distastor. It'd be like monster hunter review all over again.

I can't believe this very simple review is getting so many comments. This is just ridicilous.

Mannhammer:
Say what you will of Starcraft II to and the entire RTS genre, at least they're games. Not like this grab and stab series of what are essentially quick time events.

Shadow of the Colossus=Fail

Those are fighting words pal. Also. Not true.

reiem531:
^Once again, this person did not understand the game and is still bitter about it.

That's just too easy. "This game's great reviews backs up my opinion, so any mud I throw out there is bound to be a great argument!"
Yes, I'm still bitter. As I am with every hyped game that ended up not being what it was made out to be. Never trust the internet.

I'm not sure what's not to 'get' though. The game mechanics (this is supposed to be the fun part, yes?) are pretty much as simple as Tetris, you do the same thing over and over again till Game Over. Completing it well within the completion time, it's not something I never 'got'.
The most interesting bit of the game was the ending part, after the last Colossus. But I could be well without the whole Bambi thing.

Meh, you can call me a troll. It's that easy word you can just throw out there, and you're still in the safe-zone; you never had to think up an actual argument or anything.
It will affect on the same level of effort you put into it though.

Is it just me or was that a 14.4V Bosch drill/driver? Either that, or Metabo. They're hard to tell apart.

I guess I could track the game down and play it, but eh...

Always nice to have the occasional positive review from Yahtzee. Half the time the analogies are better than some of the more forced ones for crap games.

The best part about Shadow of the Colossus is the hardcore quick time events. We need more games with more quick time events. Dragon's Lair forever!! Best game EVAR!!1! No skill, no challenges, just more "QUICK PRESS X!!!" quick time events.

Shadow of the Colossus: Summery(Boss Fights)

1. Climb Monster
2. Stab in Head
3. Tentacle rape
------Repeat------

NOOOOOO!!!!!!!

We need Starcraft 2 Reviewed.

It's better than Halo Wars...

Malmer:

reiem531:
^Once again, this person did not understand the game and is still bitter about it.

That's just too easy. "This game's great reviews backs up my opinion, so any mud I throw out there is bound to be a great argument!"
Yes, I'm still bitter. As I am with every hyped game that ended up not being what it was made out to be. Never trust the internet.

I'm not sure what's not to 'get' though. The game mechanics (this is supposed to be the fun part, yes?) are pretty much as simple as Tetris, you do the same thing over and over again till Game Over. Completing it well within the completion time, it's not something I never 'got'.
The most interesting bit of the game was the ending part, after the last Colossus. But I could be well without the whole Bambi thing.

Meh, you can call me a troll. It's that easy word you can just throw out there, and you're still in the safe-zone; you never had to think up an actual argument or anything.
It will affect on the same level of effort you put into it though.

Your argument is just dated is all. It's like telling a wall that being able to move is a great thing! For the upteenth time no less. Eventually, it gets old. And what you're saying has been said by people too into the usual clones that are released and are quite content with that. (Like, a wall being content with staying in one place! =D)

That's probably why I'm going to make things short, in case you really, somehow, after all these years, don't get it:

In shooters, all you do is shoot. In (a generic) RPG world, all you do is take turns by going through menus for 30+ hours. In platformers, all you do is jump. In sports games, all you do is play with a ball. In SotC, all you do is go around the area killing colossi.

Obviously there's "more" to each genre. And simplifying it would be my attempts at bringing said genres down to my low level of understanding. Luckily, I'm assuming you're above that. Whether or not you liked the game or not isn't something we care about. It says something about your tastes, yes, but overall, we don't care. As I do for inventive games I never really got into/liked, I do have the mental capacity to accept and even respect what said game did for both gaming and the gamers. Even if I didn't like SotC, I would know off the bat that the game offers a unique experience. I wouldn't simplify to simply it to "my bias view" simply because I was incapable of understanding what millions of others did.

But of course, respecting something for what's it's worth is a rare trait among gamers. (I don't play RE or Silent Hill games, but I will never belittle them. I know exactly what they did before and how they're influential now. My example.)

@ProjectTrinity
Fair enough.

I stick to a few actual boards, so I haven't encountered my own viewpoint before. I don't enter game-specific boards to complain (unless their DRM has screwed up my PC. Again).

Speaking of big games and difference in taste, this is the one game, of all time, I don't think deserves its praise. This is a sea praise. The game itself, imo, is not on par with that. It wasn't a horrible game, it's just in the bottom half of easily played and forgotten games.

Now that you mention 'old'. Then yes, hearing about how great this game does this and that has gotten damn old. My original post was more in the light of dissapointment that the video, too, was one endless praise-fest. I expected more than the same ol' story.

Yeah, I'm aware was going to catch hell. There's an army of believers. But probably hardly all of them enjoy the actual game (which is ok, we enjoy different things) as much as this has become a horde of mindless mules going "Yay we all agree on something on the internet, I'm not quite sure what it was, but I'm sure I'm part of something BIG."

That was a bit more than my two cents.

It's even weird see Yahtzee liking a game, even Shadow of Colossus. It's good because usually i watch just for the laughs, as i know you will just complain about the game like a annoying little girl no matter how good it is! YOU SHOULD REVIEW MORE GAMES THAT YOU LIKE, and put a golden star next to them so we know wich are THE CHOSEN ONES.

@ProjectTrinity I agree 100%. Nice post.

i for one am personally glad ZP doesn't review star craft 2. not that anyone here cares i will divulge my views anyways so you might as well skip this post now. besides Yahtzee is probably being but-hurt about not getting large bags of money from blizzard to do a review of Star Craft 2.

to appreciate Star Craft 2 you dont have to know the history of SC1 but it doesnt hurt. SC1 started as a crappy RTS that was sooo bad they switched all there demo screens at E3 when they announced it from SC1 to Diablo. it was a joke but here is what makes it insane.

1st it was completely rewritten in 2 months.
2nd it was online.
3rd. where other studios spent time creating new games and new campaigns and new stores. after the first expansion brood war came out blizzard started making tweaks to the game and polished it for 11 YEARS why is star craft 1 the national sport of Korea? because it is one of the most well balanced multi player games in existence.

ok lets say you didn't get into all that stuff me personally i just got on the beta because a friend did(not really knowing what i was getting into) and i must admit it was so fun i ended up buying the game... to my surprise it wasn't all multilayer. there was this single player mode that just sucked me in. i never beat star craft 1 so i dont get all nostalgic when someone shows up and i am supposed to know who they are. but choices you make (that are forced on you in the sort of "oh snap bad aliens are infecting our colony of scientists but y race wants to cleanse the planet with fire you have to click on who to side with kind of thing... its unnerving because sometimes i end up going with the girl thats more attractive... leading to the violent death of the other person... i wish there was a 3rd option like middle ground... but then after that the scenery on your main ship changes according to your choices reminding you of what you made and the story changes accordingly...) anyways back on topic... sc2. its a good game. if your computer can run it. if it cant i suggest you try out SC1 and patch it and play though the campaign. its a really dated game and i never played the campaign but if its anything like 2. the campaign should be jaw dropping suck you in and never let you leave... now alt tabbing back to SC2 >.< it owns my soul now.

back in the day i liked dune 2 and c&c was OK, i moved on to age of empires 2... but decided i hate RTS games... that being said i still throughly enjoy SC2 and it got me back into RTS if only for that game.

Hurray! SotC. This makes me want to replay this game...

Yahtzee fails at basic genetics.

men have X chromosomes too, surely even 12 year olds know this.

Malmer:

Horny Ico:

Malmer:
3. Disney ending with birds and flowers. CHECK.

That's a nice bullshit mountain you have there. What's so Disney about not being allowed to enjoy your victory because you've been turned into a baby?

Forgiveness and rebirth. Fate worse than death.

Also: http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/4995/birdsnflowers.jpg

BEWARE THE DREADED GARDEN!

Sanmei:
I wasn't aware Disney owned the copyright on flora and fauna. Better not include those in any future games, video game developers! Nature is now a trademark of Walt Disney Studios!

Haha, you said it better than I could.

Eldarion:

Warforger:

TheBaron87:

Oh wow, you're no higher than gold, are you? Spam the best unit? Yeah, don't worry about scouting, adapting, positioning, cheesing, harassing, expanding, denying, sniping, hiding, or countering, just mass Stalkers every single game. You're guaranteed to win, right?! Come back when you're Diamond, and I /might/ take you seriously.

Positioning? Ha. Funny. The rest are all aspects of spamming the best unit. Fuck I was good at Warhammer 40k TT and Chess but when I got on DoW all everyone was talking about was what unit was the best to spam.

Eldarion:

You have to use tactical thinking, fight for map control and preserve your units in Dawn of war. Same with starcraft but you can afford to lose troops if you did more resources in damage to your opponent. I don't know what games you are playing.

Yah which is like the first or second tier. Let's put it like this, if you lose one squad of Space Marines in DoW, is it that devastating? No you can just build more. You could throw away an army then build another one while the enemy is walking towards your base.

That claim is laughable at best. Especially in the face of games like World In Conflict or Ground Control.

"Is one unit of marines a devastating loss?" It would be if you were playing anyone decent. The sudden loss of 200 requisition+squad reinforcements and heavy weapons upgrades can delay your teching speed more than enough to cost you the game. If you let yourself lose squads and you opponent retreats/dances/outfights you and doesn't lose squads sure you can build another marine squad, but your opponent can also build another squad and have those troops plus the ones you didn't manage to kill. You'd get overwhelmed or out teched. You clearly don't play anyone even half good at that game. Any dawn of war player worth anything will tell you to do your best to maintain map console and to avoid losing squads. You just didn't play beyond the tutorial level. Any RTS is just spamming units if you don't know how to play.

Seeing as how you clearly never played more than one or two matches with another first timer, I don't think you can judge a game you don't know squat about.

This is hilarious. So basically what your telling me is that not only do I suck at RTS's, in order for me to actually use strategy is to play online multiplayer with the hard to find and get into club of elitist pro's. Do you see whats wrong here? Not only have I played with the pro's and seen nothing that special, I've also encountered they're huge douches half the time. So basically in summary I have to play with the "Gold" people in order to experience "strategy", instead of you know playing against the AI and experiencing "strategy" even if that was true, it still doesn't touch the Ground Control campaign. This sounds awfully alot like the "but it gets good 20 hours in!" argument for games, its not a point in its favor.

Again my original point shines here, Yahtzee thinks a game should stand on its SP, at this rate the Starcraft review will probably end up like SSBB and Halo Wars combined.

PS. I've played hundreds of online DoW matches

Banok:
Yahtzee fails at basic genetics.

men have X chromosomes too, surely even 12 year olds know this.

Extra X chromosome. Women == XX Men == XY

Decabo:
Men and women both have X chromosomes. Just thought I'd clear that up.

I thought it went Y,Y= female, X,Y= male.

EDIT: Double quote.

Thanks for the increase in adverts, I hope they're paying you well!

A lion with a jetpack? Damn, I want one.

CTU_Loscombe:

elitestranger1:
don't knock silent hill 4 its the greatest story of any game in existence, the only game i've played that makes me want to keep playing to find out what happens next.
yes silent hill 2 is good coz its scary but the story is wank.

First off it wasnt originally gonna be Silent Hill, it just ended up with Silent Hill story bits tacked on and is completely out of place in the series (not counting Homecoming and the God-awful PSP and Wii games)
Silent Hill 2 on the other hand was one of the best stories in games though and gave you the drive to carry on...which was NOT the case in 4, which was fucking clown shoes.=P

the reason i say this is coz silent hill 2 was a simple game of hide and seek (mary must be in the hospital...ok maybe not, lets try the park...dam the roads blocked...and so on)

silent hill 4 is a total mystery (why is the door locked? why is there a hole? what is this place? who are these people? why do they keep killing themselves? how do i get out?) also the story of walter in the diaries that unfolds is one of the main points that made me keep playing.

...

Stone Wera:

Decabo:
Men and women both have X chromosomes. Just thought I'd clear that up.

I thought it went Y,Y= female, X,Y= male.

EDIT: Double quote.

O_O

...No, it's XX for female, and XY for male.

Banok:
Yahtzee fails at basic genetics.

men have X chromosomes too, surely even 12 year olds know this.

You really, really overestimate people's general knowledge.

Also, it was probably a joke. Yahtzee is known to make those from time to time.

I know it is futile trying to convince yahtzee to review starcraft 2, it really is a good game. I am sure he mentioned that he reviews games based on their single player, and starcraft 2 has a great campaign, truly draws you in and certain decisions will affect how the rest of your missions progress. I also love starcraft 2 and some FPS's, who says you can't love both?

Anyways, nice review, always part of my weekly entertainment.

Don't bother, he's not gonna like it, he doesn't know who Raynor is, he's not gonna care what happened to Kerrigan, it's not even the story of the century. The only reason I even give a damn about SC2 is because I've been playing BroodWar for the last 13 years.

For once, me and Yahtzee share a common opinion. This game really is THAT good.

Hey! Red Faction was great!

and
Since Yahtzee won't review SC2, I can do it for him:

It's damn damn shitty damn shitty shitty shitty damn. shitty.

I work for free :D

Blablachn:
love this game, one of my favs!

*edit*

great review as well... starcraft 2 can suck it

SC2 doesn't need a review. It was a game for the fanboys and Koreans.

Now I must play SotC. Where'd I put that old VCR... I mean, PS2....

Warforger:

Eldarion:

Warforger:

TheBaron87:

Oh wow, you're no higher than gold, are you? Spam the best unit? Yeah, don't worry about scouting, adapting, positioning, cheesing, harassing, expanding, denying, sniping, hiding, or countering, just mass Stalkers every single game. You're guaranteed to win, right?! Come back when you're Diamond, and I /might/ take you seriously.

Positioning? Ha. Funny. The rest are all aspects of spamming the best unit. Fuck I was good at Warhammer 40k TT and Chess but when I got on DoW all everyone was talking about was what unit was the best to spam.

Eldarion:

You have to use tactical thinking, fight for map control and preserve your units in Dawn of war. Same with starcraft but you can afford to lose troops if you did more resources in damage to your opponent. I don't know what games you are playing.

Yah which is like the first or second tier. Let's put it like this, if you lose one squad of Space Marines in DoW, is it that devastating? No you can just build more. You could throw away an army then build another one while the enemy is walking towards your base.

That claim is laughable at best. Especially in the face of games like World In Conflict or Ground Control.

"Is one unit of marines a devastating loss?" It would be if you were playing anyone decent. The sudden loss of 200 requisition+squad reinforcements and heavy weapons upgrades can delay your teching speed more than enough to cost you the game. If you let yourself lose squads and you opponent retreats/dances/outfights you and doesn't lose squads sure you can build another marine squad, but your opponent can also build another squad and have those troops plus the ones you didn't manage to kill. You'd get overwhelmed or out teched. You clearly don't play anyone even half good at that game. Any dawn of war player worth anything will tell you to do your best to maintain map console and to avoid losing squads. You just didn't play beyond the tutorial level. Any RTS is just spamming units if you don't know how to play.

Seeing as how you clearly never played more than one or two matches with another first timer, I don't think you can judge a game you don't know squat about.

This is hilarious. So basically what your telling me is that not only do I suck at RTS's, in order for me to actually use strategy is to play online multiplayer with the hard to find and get into club of elitist pro's. Do you see whats wrong here? Not only have I played with the pro's and seen nothing that special, I've also encountered they're huge douches half the time. So basically in summary I have to play with the "Gold" people in order to experience "strategy", instead of you know playing against the AI and experiencing "strategy" even if that was true, it still doesn't touch the Ground Control campaign. This sounds awfully alot like the "but it gets good 20 hours in!" argument for games, its not a point in its favor.

Again my original point shines here, Yahtzee thinks a game should stand on its SP, at this rate the Starcraft review will probably end up like SSBB and Halo Wars combined.

PS. I've played hundreds of online DoW matches

Yes I am saying you suck at dawn of war. All the things I mentioned aren't thing that only gold level players grasp, its the basics that everyone knows. Stuff that noob guides cover. If you can't grasp the basic stuff then you must not be very good at this game.

PS. I've played hundreds of online DoW matches

That doesn't matter if you play badly with other people who don't know how to play.

I don't even know why I am talking to you to be honest. Your "all rts games are crap except this one." attitude is classic fanboy behavior. So is just ignoring basic strategy in a game just because you can't seem to use any. Obviously you aren't here to discuss anything, but rather to troll against any game that isn't Ground control.

Eldarion:

Yes I am saying you suck at dawn of war. All the things I mentioned aren't thing that only gold level players grasp, its the basics that everyone knows. Stuff that noob guides cover. If you can't grasp the basic stuff then you must not be very good at this game.

Which weren't actual strategy. The only actual strategy is between T1 and T2 after you've establish economy it quickly fades away, and with the games focusing on getting to T3 the strategy is quickly extracted. Again most of the posters have been telling me that I have the play gold level to experience strategy, which again is NOT a point in its favor.

Eldarion:

PS. I've played hundreds of online DoW matches

That doesn't matter if you play badly with other people who don't know how to play.

I don't even know why I am talking to you to be honest. Your "all rts games are crap except this one." attitude is classic fanboy behavior. So is just ignoring basic strategy in a game just because you can't seem to use any. Obviously you aren't here to discuss anything, but rather to troll against any game that isn't Ground control.

I avoided comp stomps and I've played a multitude of players ranging from noobs to pro's. No I am not, my point is that these RTS's are more like Real Time Spammers then Real Time Strategy.

I'm not a troll in the basis that trolls just post to piss people off, some people are pissed off when they see people they don't agree with.

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