Zero Punctuation: Shadow of the Colossus

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Warforger:
words words words

Eldarion:
words words words

Gee guyz arguing with total strangers about which one of you is better at a video game when neither of you have ever played eachother is super cool.

Easy solution to your problem: PLAY EACHOTHER. I don't care if its just one match, 2 out of 3, or whatever. But it'll settle this argument a lot more certainly than "LOL NO U SUK MOAR"

Man I REALLY need to hurry up buy an old PS2 controller, I have so many games left over for that console that I've wanted to play for so long now, but none of my old controllers work and I always put off buying a new one. :(

I could only beat the first Colossi, my horse backed me into a corner for the second one and I couldn't shoot.

I hate it when people hate something so popular that they began to start talking about it like their opening up an argument. I don't care if you don't like starcraft2. And yes it is very satisfying to destroy your enemy.

And if you remotely like rts's get starcraft2 because it is the best one ever. And rts's never get boring because in any other type of game you can beat it a million times with the same experience. Every rts match is different. So you can play your favorite game today and you can play your multilayer fps's using the exact same strategy over and over but sc2 wont die for a very long time.

Nice review, I think I have to dust off that mean ol VCR again.oh and also:
I agree with Yathzee on the SC2 part.
I personally can't get into RTS myself.
The only one I really liked was Age of Empires 2.
But only because I used to spam E-mc2 troopers and Big Daddys and crush everything in my way.
Yes I enjoyed cheating, so grill me.
And I definitely won't get SC2

They need to make 'Shadow of the Colossus HD'. Don't change it, don't mess with it, just bump it up to 1080p.

I never played Shadow of the Colossus. And yet, I figured a piddling thing like playing games for some 27 years makes me a gamer. I tear this title from my heart!

Sheesh, the PS2 has turned out to be a definitively awesome platform all around, when I think of some of the remarkably diverse and excellent experiences I found o nit.

Ico was not one of those remarkable experiences. That game was naughty; it actively defied being played. I traded it in soon after buying it.

Mannhammer:
Say what you will of Starcraft II to and the entire RTS genre, at least they're games. Not like this grab and stab series of what are essentially quick time events.

Shadow of the Colossus=Colossal Fail

I was about to launch into some frenzied rebuttal about how no part of SotC even resembles a QTE.

Then I got to the part with the incredibly lame play on words, which reads like the opposite of a film critic trying to secure his one-liner for a movie poster, and it became apparent that I really wouldn't have to debate this person.

SC2, as most RTS games, eventually boils down to pure economics. Yes, I can micro my attacks to some extent in an attempt to eek out a few more kills (or even half-kills) here and there, but that's hardly the driving force of the game. Every unit and structure is just a stand-in for the resources I spent to create them. At some point I just see one collection of crystals and gas fighting another collection of crystals and gas. The game ceases to function as a test of skill or creativity and starts to take on the shadow of business - complete with constant, time-based stressors and incessant micromanagement. Worst of all is my distance from these forces, friend and foe alike. I've got no real investment in any of them beyond the economic. For me, the game becomes so detached and, well, capitalist.

I know it's possible to enjoy the game without turning it into a job (optimal build orders, APM in the 200-300s), but it seems an irresistible temptation for me. There's little reward for creativity or thinking outside the box (as established by all the best players well before I arrived), and that's just not my bag. Anyone who can get into the whole "running a miniature version of America, complete with hilariously irresponsible military spending" is welcome to their jollies, though.

sketchesofpayne:
They need to make 'Shadow of the Colossus HD'. Don't change it, don't mess with it, just bump it up to 1080p.

\

I did read something about a Team Ico Collection coming to PS3, so that might happen pretty soon.

For something that he says he doesn't hate, he sure goes out of his way to say how unimaginative and cowardly all the supporters of the genre are. And how the games of said genre are unimmersive and boring. Since he is basing his previous experiences on rts with games like Red alert, Halo wars (why review that and not touch sc2 is beyond me), Rise of nations and Brutal Legend one can sympathize with his stance on RTS. Idk... to me, sc2 was something with a quality and charm that was beyond its genre and was way too damn good.

To me it's like him not playing paper Mario just because he loathes jrps. If he didn't make the exception in the first place he would miss out of a niche that he enjoys. Besides, there is a good amount of his viewer-ship that would just like to see him rip into the sc2 cause of people like me (only rts I ever liked was sc and sc2).

I'm more disappointed more then anything else. He'll play shitty games like Demon's souls (I fucking beat that POS, and if i heard the entire staff was publicly raped then killed, I would SMILE.) or Boarderlands but not touch sc2 because he doesn't play the genre. It would just be interesting to see what he thinks of it. Oh well... like they say, you can show a Game critic a good game, but you can't make him review it (or something like that...)

In my opinion, this is easily your funniest review since Alan Wake, so good job! I never actually played Shadow of the Colossus, but I loved Ico, and I'm definitely getting The Last Guardian.

*Proffers arbitrary Starcraft 2 opinion*
I haven't actually played the game, because it just looks like Gears of War from above, and that game was totally nonsensical in the first place. However, I can definitely see where you're coming from. Every time I play an RTS, I get through the training levels and then immediately start cheating, because I don't like:
a) Waiting for another generic troop to spawn so that I can go over and smack the other generic troop in the face.
b) Being in a position where I can't directly influence events, and cannot actually go over and personally smack the other player/generic troop in the face.
c) Putting a good half an hour of effort into a map only to be rushed and have to start over.

Anyway, good work!

Yeah, I'm really glad you reviewed this. It makes me wanna go start playing it again.

Amusing review.

I agree with the SC2 opinion. Because I don't give a damn about the entire game. Grand Strategy Games are infinitely better.

Although, to be fair, those games are infinitely more suitable for the Armchair Hitlers among us.

sketchesofpayne:
They need to make 'Shadow of the Colossus HD'. Don't change it, don't mess with it, just bump it up to 1080p.

Ohhhh that would be fucking, fucking awesome. Mmm just imagine how sexy it would look..... *sigh* just a pity that any remake they would potentially ever do would change the game somewhat.

Hm. Oh yeah OT I suppose: SoTC is brilliant, annnnd yeah.

once again I ask, why all the discussion about a game he's not reviewing.

but on another note, I think that Yahtzee is starting to fall into the same bad habits he's accusing video game makers of. What habits are those, well doing the same thing over and over again just because he knows it will get him viewers, readers, and stirs up people to get all the comments he's getting here. In the past, I loved his reviews because while he ranted, he often had something positive to say unless the game was actually bad with no good features worth mentioning, like Turok or the most recent Alone in the Dark, heck even when he said that HAZE wasn't a good game he admitted that HALO fans would like it and at least it was functional, now all he does is complain.

Personally, I think this series has jumped the shark, and did so during the Arkham Asylum review when he blatantly named himself a "Praiser by Exception" which meant that he officially decided to stop mentioning the good stuff in his reviews. Yes this review is an exception, except that it's technically a retro review and in my opinion doesn't carry as much weight as his reviews of current games (I do give full weight games he ends up reviewing late because of the stupid Australian censorship laws).

I guess we should have seen this coming as far back in his Bioshock 1 review when he mentioned "If my Psychonauts review taught me anything it's that nobody likes me when I'm being nice to a game" but back then he at least mentioned all the good stuff at the start and end of his review thus starting and ending on good notes.

I will continue to watch in hopes that I see a change, and mostly to hear his opinions just in case he offers some more balanced reviews, but I may stop watching regularly altogether if this continues.

Kurt Horsting:
For something that he says he doesn't hate, he sure goes out of his way to say how unimaginative and cowardly all the supporters of the genre are. And how the games of said genre are unimmersive and boring. Since he is basing his previous experiences on rts with games like Red alert, Halo wars (why review that and not touch sc2 is beyond me), Rise of nations and Brutal Legend one can sympathize with his stance on RTS. Idk... to me, sc2 was something with a quality and charm that was beyond its genre and was way too damn good.

To me it's like him not playing paper Mario just because he loathes jrps. If he didn't make the exception in the first place he would miss out of a niche that he enjoys. Besides, there is a good amount of his viewer-ship that would just like to see him rip into the sc2 cause of people like me (only rts I ever liked was sc and sc2).

I'm more disappointed more then anything else. He'll play shitty games like Demon's souls (I fucking beat that POS, and if i heard the entire staff was publicly raped then killed, I would SMILE.) or Boarderlands but not touch sc2 because he doesn't play the genre. It would just be interesting to see what he thinks of it. Oh well... like they say, you can show a Game critic a good game, but you can't make him review it (or something like that...)

Or even play it.

I agree with everything you say here, he even admitted to liking, nay, loving Final Fantasy VI despite hating the installments that followed it, and you're right, he might just find a niche he enjoys on some level, plus he would review a real and functional RTS (Console RTS and hybrids like Spore and Brutal Legend are either poorly functional, not enough of an RTS to count, or both) and probably make it so people would stop ranting so much about his refusal to play RTS games in the future. And hey, he might at least like the story since he rarely has to keep certain units alive in the campaign and the cut scenes are quite immersive for an RTS game, he might even sympathize with Raynor, A sullen friendless drunk who spends most of his time in the bar and plotting the downfall of the local government.

Why should he review a genre he doesn't like, quite simply here's my rule for stuff like this: Try something at least once and make sure you try a piece of that something that is regarded as prime good example of it and if you still don't like the thing after that, feel free to bitch. Prime good examples for video games include: JRPGs--Final Fantasy VI, Shooters--Painkiller and Bioshock, Action-Adventure--Psychonauts, Heavy Action--God of War I, Action-Platformer--Prince of Persia The Sands of Time, Survival Horror--Silent Hill 2, and do I even need to say what a prime good example of RTS is?

That's what I think.

I swear, I'm the only human in existence who doesn't like this game. It's not a bad concept, I just found it poorly executed, unpolished, and incredibly unimmersive. The worst part for me was the controls. I can't begin to describe how bad the controls are. It feels like your controlling a 100 year old rusty robot with a broken leg. On a unicycle. And your horse isn't much better. The horse was very stiff and... off. Not to mention the way you got it to move by pressing X. Zelda Twilight Princess, that game had good horse controls, and it was on the gamecube! Controls can make or break a game, and this felt like you were playing as a drunken Leper. That, and bad controls, for me at least, will completely ruin the immersiveness of a game. The entire time I was playing this I always was conscious and aware of me playing the game. I was never immersed into the experience.

Also, the graphics... I see what it was going for, and what it was trying to accomplish, and what it did do at some points, but for the most part it feels too unpolished to pull it off. It's not due to technology limitations, I've seen games that pulled off that look before hand.

I do really like the concept of this game. If it had been properly refined and worked on for a few more years it could be one of my favorites. But as it stands, it just ugly, unimmersive, and... un-not-broken... yeah...

FieryTrainwreck:
SC2, as most RTS games, eventually boils down to pure economics. Yes, I can micro my attacks to some extent in an attempt to eek out a few more kills (or even half-kills) here and there, but that's hardly the driving force of the game. Every unit and structure is just a stand-in for the resources I spent to create them. At some point I just see one collection of crystals and gas fighting another collection of crystals and gas. The game ceases to function as a test of skill or creativity and starts to take on the shadow of business - complete with constant, time-based stressors and incessant micromanagement. Worst of all is my distance from these forces, friend and foe alike. I've got no real investment in any of them beyond the economic. For me, the game becomes so detached and, well, capitalist.

I know it's possible to enjoy the game without turning it into a job (optimal build orders, APM in the 200-300s), but it seems an irresistible temptation for me. There's little reward for creativity or thinking outside the box (as established by all the best players well before I arrived), and that's just not my bag. Anyone who can get into the whole "running a miniature version of America, complete with hilariously irresponsible military spending" is welcome to their jollies, though.

I think you didn't play enough (good) RTS games. Or you simply didn't play them like they should be played. And for SC2 not giving enough room for creativity. Tell me a game that does better then SC2 in terms of creativity and can be played competitively. If you don't see the creativity in SC2, doesn't mean it isn't there. I can assure you, there's more to the game then meets the eye.

OT: yes, SoTC was good, but I didn't find it THAT good. And I don't quite know why Yahtzee reviews this game when there's SC2 to review. Isn't it your job as a reviewer to review games... Even though you think/know they're complete shit? As others already stated, I find it odd he reviews fucked up shitty "make a quick buck" games, but avoids certain really good games like the plague... Afraid to become too mainstream?

Redgethebat:
I swear, I'm the only human in existence who doesn't like this game. It's not a bad concept, I just found it poorly executed, unpolished, and incredibly unimmersive. The worst part for me was the controls. I can't begin to describe how bad the controls are. It feels like your controlling a 100 year old rusty robot with a broken leg. On a unicycle. And your horse isn't much better. The horse was very stiff and... off. Not to mention the way you got it to move by pressing X. Zelda Twilight Princess, that game had good horse controls, and it was on the gamecube! Controls can make or break a game, and this felt like you were playing as a drunken Leper. That, and bad controls, for me at least, will completely ruin the immersiveness of a game. The entire time I was playing this I always was conscious and aware of me playing the game. I was never immersed into the experience.

Also, the graphics... I see what it was going for, and what it was trying to accomplish, and what it did do at some points, but for the most part it feels too unpolished to pull it off. It's not due to technology limitations, I've seen games that pulled off that look before hand.

I do really like the concept of this game. If it had been properly refined and worked on for a few more years it could be one of my favorites. But as it stands, it just ugly, unimmersive, and... un-not-broken... yeah...

You are not alone my friend. I never understood what the big fuss was surrounding SotC. Out of curiosity I tried the game myself. Little did I know what would await me. I will wholeheartedly agree, the story elements and setting were nicely done. But setting is like the parsley to my porterhouse steak, it makes for a great looking presentation, but does little to affect the taste of the meat. And in this case, the meat of any game is the game play. This is where SotC fails miserably. From the on foot controls, to the horse controls, to it taking a solid 74 hours to traverse the landscape to get from boss to boss. On that note, SotC was basically a big boss gauntlet made artificially longer by a horse riding scene that would make Lawrence of Arabia tired.

Graphically the game had some good ideas, but failed to pull them off. I'll applaud them for what they tried to do and the scale this game presented. Though sometimes you need to know your limits, and in the case of SotC, they did not. The game runs at 30 frames per second if you are by yourself on your horse. The second an enemy or Colussus comes on screen, the framerate tanks to a snails pace. Sometimes it would slow to 5 frames a second making it unplayable. I find it ironic that Yahtzee complains about games that are brown and gray, when that's what this whole game is! Brows and grays. Pot. Kettle. Black.

This game gets a free pass because of the recent trend I like to call, "OMG STORY!" in which a player will ignore bad game play in light of a story, of which there are thousands of things called "novels" that pull story off a hundred times better than any game could hope to. Which leads me to the most disturbing point, when did we stop playing video GAMES for GAME play? When did we become so obsessed about why we're doing something that we can't just play a game. Remember Contra on the NES? That story was about as generic us vs. them as you could get, but it was one fun game because it played well. Are we so pathetic that we need some deep motivation to press an "A" button? Story is a good thing, and in light of playing Mass Effect 2, I love a good story. But it is only an accent to the main attraction of game play.

Now if only Yahtzee played games for game play we might get a review of SC2 or something similar. Instead he waxes poetically about flawed games with poor game play that are good simply because they give him a warm fuzzy feeling about a story. Playing a game like SotC is like having a bowl full of parsley with a 2 oz. bone dry steak. Yum.

It's time for some Contra now.

...I actually enjoy the taste of horse, too.

For me, it wasn't that the Horse sections were too long and empty, but the game feels empty. It's just, like you said, a relatively small boss roster with nothing in between. If there had been more puzzles or platforming (actually I take that back, platforming with these controls isn't a good thing) between the bosses to play like actually levels, that would be better. It's not that I dislike the big empty lonely horses, it's just it feels like there should be something more in addition to them.

people who claim starcraft 2 are this and that are the true "fanboys".

Fanbois of thinking the WORLDS most sold/played game for several years atleast is crap only due to in their demented worlds that something that good must be bad because it makes em feel important.

fact and closed.

Jolly good.

hawk533:

I laughed at the "Twoo Wuv" part. Again I am reminded of Princess Bride. "Mawwaige is what bwings us hewe today."

Great movie!

OT: It's so hard to find a used copy, but I was able to find one at gamestop near me (Thank god).

i'm so sad i never got around to playing this and i no longer have my PS2.

/grumble

Amazing Game dude, glad you chose it. They need to make a sequel, even though they'd probably ruin the epicness of the whole game.

SilentSh0tz:
Amazing Game dude, glad you chose it. They need to make a sequel, even though they'd probably ruin the epicness of the whole game.

Ico is as close to a sequel as we'll get in that it's Wander's fault that the Horned Children came to be in the first place. I think the Queen is a remnant of Dormin somehow, but don't quote me on that. She DOES command the same kind of shadows you see watching Wander in his sleep after every kill...

WaffleGod:
I don't quite know why Yahtzee reviews this game when there's SC2 to review. Isn't it your job as a reviewer to review games... Even though you think/know they're complete shit? As others already stated, I find it odd he reviews fucked up shitty "make a quick buck" games, but avoids certain really good games like the plague... Afraid to become too mainstream?

I don't quite know why people think Yahtzee hasn't reviewed SC2. He rips the game, the genre, and the people who play it every time he mentions the damn thing. You should be well aware of his opinion at this point, and you should definitely understand why he opts not to touch it in a formal review.

This isn't the first high-profile release he's refused to review, and it definitely won't be the last. That's been his tact from day one, and no amount of focused complaining will change that. Or at least I hope it doesn't, because I hate to see a guy compromise his convictions for mass appeal.

Although it would be fun to see him thoroughly trash the game AND dedicate a follow-up to his mailbag.

Zanaxal:
people who claim starcraft 2 are this and that are the true "fanboys".

Fanbois of thinking the WORLDS most sold/played game for several years atleast is crap only due to in their demented worlds that something that good must be bad because it makes em feel important.

fact and closed.

Wow, luckily your opinion goes above and beyond any reprieve... Sad little man...

(sigh) You know, I enjoy StarCraft, I also love World of Warcraft, or any other game Blizzard creates, purely for the amount of effort they place into each game they create, and how it clearly shines through in the end results. On the other hand I dislike playing driving games or any type of sport games. Now I don't go out of my way to bash them, especially not to people who enjoy them.

What I don't understand is, why cant you flaming idiots see that tastes differ? So you don't like something, deal with it. Why bash it? Is it out of insecurity that you cant grasp the enjoyment something brings someone else? There is a difference between giving your opinion and being ignorantly dim.

If you dislike StarCraft, then don't play it. If someone else enjoys him, grant it to him, it wont deteriorate the things you enjoy. So why try so hard to destroy the things he enjoys?

Humanity is pathetic...

Azjenco:

Zanaxal:
people who claim starcraft 2 are this and that are the true "fanboys".

Fanbois of thinking the WORLDS most sold/played game for several years atleast is crap only due to in their demented worlds that something that good must be bad because it makes em feel important.

fact and closed.

Wow, luckily your opinion goes above and beyond any reprieve... Sad little man...

(sigh) You know, I enjoy StarCraft, I also love World of Warcraft, or any other game Blizzard creates, purely for the amount of effort they place into each game they create, and how it clearly shines through in the end results. On the other hand I dislike playing driving games or any type of sport games. Now I don't go out of my way to bash them, especially not to people who enjoy them.

What I don't understand is, why cant you flaming idiots see that tastes differ? So you don't like something, deal with it. Why bash it? Is it out of insecurity that you cant grasp the enjoyment something brings someone else? There is a difference between giving your opinion and being ignorantly dim.

If you dislike StarCraft, then don't play it. If someone else enjoys him, grant it to him, it wont deteriorate the things you enjoy. So why try so hard to destroy the things he enjoys?

Humanity is pathetic...

Well a game can still be good and not like it ofc, like i said with SOC i dont think its anything great, but that doesn't mean i hate it to the extent of the SC2 haters on this board, which almost certainly is just trolling. Or some closet troll thinking he's looking at it in a objective manner.

Most frequent thing brought up is lan support. So SOTC don't have lan support or any multiplayer support?? do people hate on it for that?

You obviously missed the whole point of the post completely.

If you had read a few posts on this forum and see how much hate there is going towards the SC2 then you might have actually posted something constructive.

I smell sockpuppets in the thread!

What I don't get is, if SC2 is such a great game, why one would need validation from Yahtzee, a man who has time and again stated his ambivalence towards RTSes in general, and who makes a living insulting videogames (and your mum) every Wednesday or Friday. It's like asking a Tourette's suffering quadriplegic to participate in a bloody marathon, or asking Simon Cowell to review a Dragonforce album. Remember kids, he criticizes games, he doesn't just review them.

It's like this friend of a friend who keeps insisting that SC2's a really great game, I shouldn't pre-judge it, yadda yadda, when I already told him that I never said it was bad, I'm just not buying it because I'm terrible at RTSes. I'm not that much of a masochist to try something that I already know will cause nothing but endless monitor-bashing frustration, especially when it costs $60.

As for the actual game reviewed, I agree that SoTC had some seriously buggy control issues, especially on horseback. Did I enjoy the game? When I was holding on for dear life to some giant mossy armpit hair working my way to the weak point, hell yeah I was. Not that GOTY for me though, considering the boring horse rides and bare framework of a plot. Does my opinion make this ZP any less funny for me? Hell no.

Yahtzee's idea of a perfect game would be a Prince of Persia sequel where you're a disembodied breast navigating several giant colossi using a Portal gun while looking for your hot missing wife while listening to the soundtrack for Fantasy World Dizzy.

I got Shadow of the Colossus a few years back, and it was no fun. I had no reason to care about the guy, the girl, the horse, or anything else in the game. On the opposite, StarCraft 2 actually has characters. They have motives, backgrounds, and develop over the course of the game.

And, if you use Halo Wars and the Total War games as the basis for all your RTS opinion, you're being willfully ignorant. WarCraft, Dawn of War, StarCraft and Age of Empires all have fundamental differences, and while we classify them all as RTS games, there are such major differences between them all that saying they're just like Total War or Halo Wars makes you a nimrod.

And while simply clicking your marines around can't compete with the snake thing, holding against a limitless swarm and getting pushed back to the crest of a hill to defend a superweapon while it powers up and detonates as your bunkers are surrounded and your remaining cruisers desperately try to hold off the bigger creatures easily does.

I NEED to play this game. It looks amazing, it's finding a copy of it for less than the price of a new PS3 game that's the problem.

Great review for Yahzee this week (people have already mentioned the X chromosome thing so I don't need to).

Also, is it just me or has he toned down the swearing? That's no complaint, the less swearing, the more room for wit in my opinion.

LostTimeLady:
I NEED to play this game. It looks amazing, it's finding a copy of it for less than the price of a new PS3 game that's the problem.

Great review for Yahzee this week (people have already mentioned the X chromosome thing so I don't need to).

Also, is it just me or has he toned down the swearing? That's no complaint, the less swearing, the more room for wit in my opinion.

"Also she seems to confuse swearing for wit. THAT'S MY THING!" -Yahtzee in the Wet review.

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