Muslim Should Not Equal Villain

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Waif:

This is where you are wrong. Truth is not based on perspective, if we still believed that, the earth would still be flat. Unless you are a flat earther? In that event,let me introduce you to what is in fact truth. For instance, truth is indivisible in it's definition as: Conformity to fact or actuality. Which is objective, and not subjective as you have stated. This invalidates your claim in it's entirety. Therefore it is your logic that is flawed. Allow me to drive the point home further. There are absolute truths, ones that cannot be questioned. Because to say that there is no such thing as an absolute truth is a self-defeating statement. Because if that statement were not in itself an absolute it would be false!

Truth is a constant, and is supported largely by the factual, not the opinion. In the case of the flat earth, people believed that the earth was flat because that was all the knew. This didn't make it the truth, simply because they believed it. In fact 500 years later, we now know that the earth is round. Perspective can change, the truth, however, remains the same. Unless you actually believe that upon thinking the earth is round, that it suddenly became round?

Morality is another story that is subjective and is based on perspective. As are the concepts of good and evil. For the record, I never said anything about morality. You did. Truth supersedes the subjective. I spoke in terms of truth as in factual evidence that you can find anywhere. On the subject of morality. Look up Honor killings some time. If you don't think that is evil, well, then there is nothing that can be done for you.

Sorry, fail argument.

You're basing your standard for Truth on the false theories of induction, and causality. Our epistemological limits prohibit us from knowing anything outside what we can experience. Objectivity is just lots of people agreeing on something, and calling it "objective" so that it may never be doubted. But of course, they fail, and don't worry the axioms of today [i]will[/b] be the fables of tomorrow.

Okay then, but how come we always have a problem with Muslim terrorists then?

Giest4life:

Waif:

This is where you are wrong. Truth is not based on perspective, if we still believed that, the earth would still be flat. Unless you are a flat earther? In that event,let me introduce you to what is in fact truth. For instance, truth is indivisible in it's definition as: Conformity to fact or actuality. Which is objective, and not subjective as you have stated. This invalidates your claim in it's entirety. Therefore it is your logic that is flawed. Allow me to drive the point home further. There are absolute truths, ones that cannot be questioned. Because to say that there is no such thing as an absolute truth is a self-defeating statement. Because if that statement were not in itself an absolute it would be false!

Truth is a constant, and is supported largely by the factual, not the opinion. In the case of the flat earth, people believed that the earth was flat because that was all the knew. This didn't make it the truth, simply because they believed it. In fact 500 years later, we now know that the earth is round. Perspective can change, the truth, however, remains the same. Unless you actually believe that upon thinking the earth is round, that it suddenly became round?

Morality is another story that is subjective and is based on perspective. As are the concepts of good and evil. For the record, I never said anything about morality. You did. Truth supersedes the subjective. I spoke in terms of truth as in factual evidence that you can find anywhere. On the subject of morality. Look up Honor killings some time. If you don't think that is evil, well, then there is nothing that can be done for you.

Sorry, fail argument.

You're basing your standard for Truth on the false theories of induction, and causality. Our epistemological limits prohibit us from knowing anything outside what we can experience. Objectivity is just lots of people agreeing on something, and calling it "objective" so that it may never be doubted. But of course, they fail, and don't worry the axioms of today [i]will[/b] be the fables of tomorrow.

So you actually believe that the world isn't round? Even when there is evidence to contrary? Objectivity is factual and evidence based. Objectivity is not qualitative, it's quantitative. If you can't see that, then clearly you are the one with the problem. Well then I'm sorry that I can't convince you of the obvious truth. It seems you have failed to even read what I had said, because if you had. You would not have posted this. Oh I'll give you this link:

http://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/ae535.cfm

Obvious you believe that the earth is round only because a lot of people agree on it. Such an argument doesn't even make sense, especially with the data supporting it. Therefore it seems that you are the one with the fail argument. I have proved as such. Though you know, I don't really care whether or not you believe this. You are free to believe that the earth is flat. Obviously you are just trying to antagonize me, because no one could be so dumb about these things. I'm not gonna stoop to your level, I've said all that can be said to a person who will not listen to truth and fact. Good day to you.

Waif:

So you actually believe that the world isn't round? Even when there is evidence to contrary? Objectivity is factual and evidence based. Objectivity is not qualitative, it's quantitative. If you can't see that, then clearly you are the one with the problem. Well then I'm sorry that I can't convince you of the obvious truth. It seems you have failed to even read what I had said, because if you had. You would not have posted this. Oh I'll give you this link:

http://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/ae535.cfm

Obvious you believe that the earth is round only because a lot of people agree on it. Such an argument doesn't even make sense, especially with the data supporting it. Therefore it seems that you are the one with the fail argument. I have proved as such. Though you know, I don't really care whether or not you believe this. You are free to believe that the earth is flat. Obviously you are just trying to antagonize me, because no one could be so dumb about these things. I'm not gonna stoop to your level, I've said all that can be said to a person who will not listen to truth and fact. Good day to you.

The human mind cannot objectively verify facts, and I can't stress that "fact" enough. The concept that the Earth is round is not an objective Truth, it's a truth that people throughout the ages have viewed differently, and it is likely that they will once again doubt the objectivity of it. It is so much easier to convince yourself of "facts," than to doubt. The problem here is not with science; it's with the human mind.

Also, I'm not trying to "antagonize" you. I guess David Hume, and Friedrich Nietzsche, amongst others as well, had just been trolling mankind?

mega48man:

oblivion220791:

mega48man:
there's a reason there's such a hate in the media. because when you play as a nazi in the old CoD or a russian in the Newer CoDs, no one bitches about it, not even Vladamir putin gives a crap, i bet he might even find it funny in a way.

but the the very second there's a reference to muslims, EVERY DAMN MUSILM GETS ENRAGED.

what i don't get is why some people can't just take a joke. ok, so you can play as the taliban in medal of honor, big deal, IT'S A VIDEO GAME, IT'S NOT REAL, IT'S JUST REFLECTING MODERN POLITICAL ISSUES. i don't even know why you brought up prince of persia, that game's set in a completely different time than post 9/11. back then the muslims were fine, so why not send one little trouble maker who looks like jake gyllenhal based of an old platforming game in there with the power to stop time? big deal!!!

i looked up for 2 seconds, AND WHY ARE PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT MAFIA 2 BEING AN ISSUE? sterotypes? DUH!!! didn't you watch the godfather??? how about part 2? if you're gonna make a video game about italian mobsters in the 20's, WHY NOT MAKE THEM ITALIAN FROM THE 20'S??? the game would suck ass if you were an asian mob from the 20's, there weren't any asians in chicago at the time either. how about just a bunch of bland white guys? HELL NO, THAT'S BORING!!! i want lines like "he's sleeping wit de fishes" done right, italian mobster.

this has nothing to do with muslims by the way, just a reminder, unless you can find me an italian muslim, then smack him for "ruining the family name" as the don would say it.

BACK ON TRACK, if you really want game developers to stop making games where you kill muslims;
1; stop looking so hard for games with muslims in them. seriously, the only other game i know where that's an issue is ethnic cleansing, for obvious reasons
2; stop playing games where you shoot muslims, aka, stop playing the new medal of honor. instead, play HALO 3, or BAD COMPANY 2, CoD BLACK OPS, or CoD WORLD AT WAR, or BRUTAL LEGEND, or, GUITAR HERO, or GTA4, or MADDEN 11,or DORA THE EXPLORER: ADVENTURE TO THE PURPLE PLANET, or MADWORLD, or PROTOTYPE, or LEFT 4 DEAD 2, or POKEMON GOLD, or FIFA 11, or MARVEL VS. CAPCOM, or GOD OF WAR 3, or FAT PRINCESS, or ROCK BAND 3, or ARMY OF TWO 40TH DAY, or RESIDENT EVIL 4, or GEARS OF WAR 2 (OR 3), or TRANSFORMERS WAR FOR CYBERTRON, or GOD DAMN DUKE NUKEM FOREVER.
--(i just listed a bunch of games with no muslims in them what so ever. if you reply complaining that there is a neglectance of muslims in video games, i swear to fucking god, i will pull you nuts out like we pull our troops out of iraq.)

PAGE 10! W00T!

dude, chill

no, YOU chill..... ok, i'll chill.

go buy mafia 2, that game is fun as hell

i know, i've finished it a day after i bought it

superb story

..... you do realize the good guys in the POP are either Muslim or damn close same for Aladdin, I think we haz failuerz to comunicatez going on...as all I am seeing is "presumption: middle eastern=bad!" discuss.

All I see is people and some of them are damn hot,even covered in 2 robes worth of material!Eyes are sexy damnit!!

Coming back to this thread again, with a few days of consideration below my belt, I think that the problem is not the games themselves, but social bias. Saladin (which is a wicked name by the way) touches on this on page 10 when he says that if people really think that games reflect the current geopolitical situation (in that "all enemies of the western world" are muslims) then they need to broaden their perspective.

It is interesting because he's grazing against one of my favourite points, namely how media gives us bias. Almost every large media congolmerate in the western world today loves to tell us that "muslim extremists does this" and "islamists think that" and there's an extremly unsettling trend to value a crime commited by a muslim as a better news story then the same crime commited by any other religious or ethnical group (When was the last time you read a headline like: "Catholic man tried to rob a bank"?). For many people today, muslims do seem like the "big threat" because that is what media is telling us. Nevermind that Mexico is rapidly moving towards a state of near dissolution due to widespread corruption and organized crime or the fact that drug cartels makes billions in profit every year (and their products have significant economical impact on society). It is the guys shouting about holy wars and failing to launch cruise missiles that we have to worry about.

So of course games will contain muslim antagonists, because in the current media climate they are easily identifiable as bad guys. The game doesn't need to provide any exposition on why a muslim is evil, the player's own awareness of what media tells him/her will already be enough (if nothing else everyone knows about 9/11). But what about a game were ETA is the bad guy? Or help/fight the rebels in Burma? How about a game were you fight mexican crime? All of these suddenly forces the game to tell you why you should hate or like any of the groups in that particular game. Not to mention, it will be harder to make people buy the game. Shooting muslims/arabs is politically accepted since they are "the enemy" currently, but shooting irish people? Spaniards? Other americans/englishmen/swedes or whichever nation you come from in a warzone?

Lastly, I'd like to just say a thing to the "The moderate muslims must step up crowd". It is very hard for any form of moderate voice to be heard, especially in the current media climate were muslims are typically vilified. Reading swedish books like Lasermannen (a book about 'Lasermannen' a serial killer who killed immigrants and racism in Sweden) and En äkta våldtäktsman (a book about medias portrayal of rapists and societies view on rapists) makes it abundantly clear that muslims and arabs are over-represented by a large marigin in medias news coverage of crimes. I can't speak for the rest of the world, but considering that Sweden is one of the countries often praised for our "open mindedness" I don't find it particularly hard to believe that a similar disproportion exists in the rest of Europe and America. Media currently likes the image of the evil arabic muslim, it sells, so why threaten that stereotype? Besides, bad news sells better than good, sadly.

"It was only a small percentage of Nazis that were actually raping and pillaging Europe, worked in death camps and or supported the Fuhrer's crazy, homicidal and eventually suicidal assault on Europe"

"It was only a small percentage of the Japanese military that were actually raping and pillaging South East Asia, worked in death camps and or supported the Emperors crazy, homicidal and eventually suicidal assault on the allied powers"

"It was only a small percentage of Communists that were actually raping and pillaging Europe, worked in death camps and or supported the USSR's crazy, homicidal and eventually suicidal assault on West Europe"

"Its only a small percentage of Muslims that actually lead multiple attacks on the civilized world from various South East Asian countries to the United States"

Same shit different war. But its important to note that this isn't a war on Muslims as it was a war with Japan. This is a war with extremists and radicalism.

Look, unless you can get a lot of Muslims to get together and disown the radical Muslims from the ranks of Islam,then more people will start thinking about Muslims in a more positive light. But let me remind you that the last time the US went up against this kind of fanaticism, no matter how "small the radical minority was" we got fed up and used atomic weapons.
--------
Now as for the game and how upset you are about how they portray Muslims, I dont really see what your complaining about. If Muslims are such peaceful people then these games dont represent Muslims now do they? It just represents the "violent minority" right?
This is actually the same problem I had with Edward Said claiming that a bunch of b and c list movies and actors were corrupting the minds of westerners and specifically Americans. This I consider the same argument that violent TV or videogames corrupt the youth.

In conclusion I understand that many video game playing Muslims are in a precarious and uncomfortable position when the newest game is killing people who speak the same language or practice the same religion as you. And the rest of the world has already separated the violent from the nonviolent except for the dumbasses who screw their cousins in the mountains, or the skin heads in Europe who just hate everybody and probably screw their cousins in cheap hotel rooms. So if the rest of the planet can make the distinction why cant the Muslim community? The truth of the matter is I have no idea.

As a final note after my final conclusion so more like a PS:
Muhammad wasn't just THE prophet he was also a smart and brutal brutal military general, just like Moses. All of these "prophets of peace" were written about when (or a few years after) they were kicking someone elses ass across the Middle East. Basically Im waiting for the next prophet to show up any time now or at least find a person whose recently had a shit ton written about them.

Abedeus:
Wait, what about Assassin's Creed? Weren't like 95% of the people there Muslim?

"Altaiir, my friend! Welcome!"

This is the kind of comment that makes me think a lot of people haven't read the main article.

Assassin's Creed is explicitly mentioned in it.

Can everyone start replying to the content? Not the content they THINK is there? I realise it's a little late after 300+ comments.

Speakercone:

On a similar note, ever notice how a character with a british accent always turns out to be the villain in everything? Are we offended? Yes, slightly. We just laugh at the silly americans who distrust us because we sound intelligent.

Yes but at the same time there are many characters in video games that have British accents or something distinctly European yet are good guys. You can find plenty of heroic German, Russian and Black characters but how many games outside of the Prince of Persia series (and the games that let you create your own character) have had a Muslim character as either the protagonist or a good guy?

G-Force:

Speakercone:

On a similar note, ever notice how a character with a british accent always turns out to be the villain in everything? Are we offended? Yes, slightly. We just laugh at the silly americans who distrust us because we sound intelligent.

Yes but at the same time there are many characters in video games that have British accents or something distinctly European yet are good guys. You can find plenty of heroic German, Russian and Black characters but how many games outside of the Prince of Persia series (and the games that let you create your own character) have had a Muslim character as either the protagonist or a good guy?

That's a fair point. That was meant largely as a joke and not as a serious comparison between the treatment of the British and the Muslim world in games.

Though it is kinda strange that every nationality/race/religious/etc. is a kind of Hollywood shorthand for a character archetype. I guess they can save time on the boring character development and focus on more explosions and tight shots of Megan Fox's ass. :P

The Big Eye:

catalyst8:
'Muslim Should Not Equal Villain' is a laughable travesty of an assertion.

Anyone who condones rape, murder, & slavery (as any Christian, Muslim or Jew must do if they follow their 'holy' texts) is a despicable sociopath in dire need of incarceration.

I'm... not sure how you expect anyone to agree with that statement.

The so-called 'holy' texts of the Christian/Jewish/Muslim religion all condone slavery, murder, & rape. They even condemn rape victims to execution. There is no reason for any of the followers of that bizarre Arab death cult to be excused the role of villain, because the religion they follow is so villainous.

Play a campaign as the Ottoman Empire in Empire: Total War. It helped me break the mental connection of Islam = terrorism.

WWII games depict Nazis as villains, therefor we are unfairly portraying Germans.

See what I did there?

I agree with your first email point,as there are Christian Muslims that have removed themselves from the Islamic regime for good reason...
Your point about jack Chick..I Stand on his profound research and history of Pointing the finger at the sin but not the sinner...GOD's better @ that.
thanks for the response...
(found a chick Tract in a old fashioned glass-boxed phone-booth at 11years old,got skered poopless then and got saved and felt >>>Loved<<<...xD
But But now I'm on satans Hit list,But I have a stronger GODFATHER FAMILIA'hahahaha, through Jesus christ...and all the games I've ever played is Good vs Evil..which side do you play...you fall just get up Pray and keep going.There's room for you in the Familia'...x) hope you don't refuse.. .http://farm1.static.flickr.com/35/65878699_cf3ff8ff8f.jpg

somebody had to step out the majority Flatearther society to say and proove that the world was "ROUND",face ridicule financial reversal by hidden powerful men,be vilified by papers and press,and Probed,Peeped,tracked,gossiped about and laughed at.when the truth is revealed...someone else gets the credit..aawe shuks.

lol...xD

I don't think there are that many games that actually feature Muslims as enemies. The OP cites two, and only one is really applicable to the argument (Prince of Persia is set a bit too far back to be considered politically relevant.) Medal of Honor is using the Taliban as a villain, which is appropriate. The problem here is not game developers equating Muslims with villain, it seems the problem is the OP equating the Taliban with all Muslims. (Please let me know if there are more games that use Muslims as villains.)

edit: also I'm a bit disgusted with some of the people who are on "my side" of the argument. If a group of people is wrongly portrayed as evil, that is a bad thing. I am simply saying I do not think that is the case yet.

I could actualy see a potential stir of misinformed hyperboyle from you-know-who news, if say we made a game from the point of view of Muslims in Iraq or Afganistan, that are just trying to survive, but have a negative view of the US Army. Their response would probably go somthing like this: In a new video game you take the role of Islamic extremists out for the blood of american soilders. You can obviously see that this game is trying to make our children into terrorists!
It would probably less extreme than that, but if mass effect has taught us anything then I could probably see someone interprit it this way.

letterbomber223:
Yeah Get Over It! Just because 99% of the gaming industry is portraying anyone who looks like you as evil, doesn't give you the right to complain. After all, loads of games are set in modern-day germany with a - oh wait, no. My bad.

I can't speak for american media, but to me (brit.) Videogames are so far out of touch in this respect, I looked very hard at assasin's creed to find the allegory for today, suspecting it was the one voice of reason allowed to be produced. As it stands, we have no videogames where the opening sequence has you pull your one-legged wife from a UN hospital before the yanks blow it to shit, and I wish we had.

Yeah great idea, and the sequel could have us watching our family being slaughtered by the bloodthirsty brits causing the main character to slaughter every British man woman and child (who are all equally cold hearted, ignorant, and evil.) If there's one thing that spreads tolerance, it's bashing the people you don't like.

The so-called 'holy' texts of the Christian/Jewish/Muslim religion all condone slavery, murder, & rape. They even condemn rape victims to execution. There is no reason for any of the followers of that bizarre Arab death cult to be excused the role of villain, because the religion they follow is so villainous.

Once again, I'm... not sure how you expect anyone to agree with that statement. The silly examples to which you point are, and can only be, the result of an insanely radical misinterpretation of the text.

It would be better of you to give those involved the benefit of the doubt, weighing them based on their own beliefs and judgments and accepting that the world's major religions were not founded as "death cults" based around willful ignorance and dogmatic, prejudiced hatred. Oh, but that's too complicated, isn't it? Religious people aspire to be evil! It's the only way the world makes sense!

If you don't see the contradiction in your thinking yet, I can't help you. Either way, you piss me off, sir. Good day.

Seventh Actuality:
Sorry, but this kind of one-sided examination of an issue never helps anything. A long list of games that depict Muslims unfairly (and you're probably right to say most of them do) can't hope to get people really thinking.

I'm loathe to say you've got to look at the whole issue, since the whole issue here goes way beyond just videogames, but this needs balance - a word from the developers of those games, a non-Muslim perspective - to be in any way meaningful.

Not that one sided, he talks about games that don't portray them as rabid maniacs.
The guy wants to see his people viewed as more than just the villain, is that really so horrible? He's not saying games like COD4 should be banned, just that intelligent games that look at both sides of every issue could be a good idea.
Honestly I like it. I hate the whole "politically correct" thing we have going but I would love it if games worked towards more complex story lines. We are already moving that way with fictional races, the aliens in halo were pretty three dimensional for a fps. Imagine a game where two fictional or real life cultures are at war and you as the protagonist (maybe you can design the character too, I mean why not at this point?) are put in the middle. You can choose one side and blow the hell out of the other or you can use stealth and reasoning to get information on both sides and decide who you want to help or maybe find that there are other forces at work that are manipulating the war so you can begin your hunt for them or help them in their struggle to restore order.
Dues ex did something like this, just push it a little further and make it a little bigger and you could have a masterpiece. Of course generic shooters and RPGs are easier to design and sell just fine so I guess nobody making the decisions really cares enough to try it.

pwnzerstick:
I could actualy see a potential stir of misinformed hyperboyle from you-know-who news, if say we made a game from the point of view of Muslims in Iraq or Afganistan, that are just trying to survive, but have a negative view of the US Army. Their response would probably go somthing like this: In a new video game you take the role of Islamic extremists out for the blood of american soilders. You can obviously see that this game is trying to make our children into terrorists!
It would probably less extreme than that, but if mass effect has taught us anything then I could probably see someone interprit it this way.

Mass effect was kind of a fluke, the actual fox anchors didn't seem to give a shit. Of course more people would know this if they bothered to watch it instead of blindly assuming fox fucks everything up.
What they did fuck up was their reporting on MW2 (see how you can watch things, even if you don't like them, so you don't look like a raving jackass when you insult them?) and I believe they claimed that the game was "trivializing" terrorism. Hey, at least their not going to the "it's teaching our kids stuff!" angle anymore, that's progress I think.
You know...glenn beck's report of GTA 4 aside, that guy is fucking nuts in a way that even fox makes fun of, and that's scary.

Yeah great idea, and the sequel could have us watching our family being slaughtered by the bloodthirsty brits causing the main character to slaughter every British man woman and child (who are all equally cold hearted, ignorant, and evil.) If there's one thing that spreads tolerance, it's bashing the people you don't like.

Not allowed to point out that there are two sides to every conflict, am I not? If I was simply bashing the people I don't like, I'd get booted by the mods for calling you a cunt too many times.

catalyst8:

The Big Eye:

catalyst8:
'Muslim Should Not Equal Villain' is a laughable travesty of an assertion.

Anyone who condones rape, murder, & slavery (as any Christian, Muslim or Jew must do if they follow their 'holy' texts) is a despicable sociopath in dire need of incarceration.

I'm... not sure how you expect anyone to agree with that statement.

The so-called 'holy' texts of the Christian/Jewish/Muslim religion all condone slavery, murder, & rape. They even condemn rape victims to execution. There is no reason for any of the followers of that bizarre Arab death cult to be excused the role of villain, because the religion they follow is so villainous.

You're wrong. Read the Qur'an, and the Bible. Both say it is against god's law to kill. Anyone who stones a woman to death is not a muslim. Killing people for being gay is also anti-islamic because the quran says there shall be no compulsion in religion and anyone who breaks these laws is not a muslim.

Waif:
It is true that Muslims have been in a bad light (not near as much as Nazi's or Russians lol). However, Muslims have been attacking American values for just as long. Even today we can see hate speeches from Islamic leaders citing violence against Americans, and their way of life. I'm afraid I can't feel sympathetic towards a culture that hates democracy, it's values, and it's people. Also, they hate Jews with such a passion that it makes Nazi's look conservative. This is common knowledge, and also this:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.229799-Iran-Publishes-Anti-Israel-Videogames

Sorry, I'm just not buying that it is Muslims who are the real victims here. Of course, this is a matter of opinion.

So Iran making one Anti-Israel game is bad, but America making several Anti-Muslim games is not? Also, calling something "common knowledge" doesn't make it a fact. I see way to many people using "everybody knows" as an argument in debates like this.

ZippyDSMlee:
..... you do realize the good guys in the POP are either Muslim or damn close same for Aladdin, I think we haz failuerz to comunicatez going on...as all I am seeing is "presumption: middle eastern=bad!" discuss.

All I see is people and some of them are damn hot,even covered in 2 robes worth of material!Eyes are sexy damnit!!

How would you define "damn close" to Muslim? You're either Muslim or you aren't. Just because Israel is close to Muslim states, doesn't make it an almost Muslim country and the same goes for India - which is the setting of Aladdin and a country where Muslims are a minority.

Of course this makes absolutely no sense. I mean where have you ever heard of a muslim terrorist? The folks in afghanistan and iraq are clearly fighting Calvinists!

WaderiAAA:

Waif:
It is true that Muslims have been in a bad light (not near as much as Nazi's or Russians lol). However, Muslims have been attacking American values for just as long. Even today we can see hate speeches from Islamic leaders citing violence against Americans, and their way of life. I'm afraid I can't feel sympathetic towards a culture that hates democracy, it's values, and it's people. Also, they hate Jews with such a passion that it makes Nazi's look conservative. This is common knowledge, and also this:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.229799-Iran-Publishes-Anti-Israel-Videogames

Sorry, I'm just not buying that it is Muslims who are the real victims here. Of course, this is a matter of opinion.

So Iran making one Anti-Israel game is bad, but America making several Anti-Muslim games is not? Also, calling something "common knowledge" doesn't make it a fact. I see way to many people using "everybody knows" as an argument in debates like this.

Well in fairness the US games developers would claim it is anti terrorist rather then anti muslims ie you stop some bland Muslim terorist group rather then going down to your local mosque during friday night prays and get bonus points for killing children.

Of course I have no rpoblem with you making a game based on say the Taliban commiting suicide attacks in Iraq if you wish. I wouldn't buy it and I wouldn't really want to give it positive exposure but you should be able to make it.

That was a really well written article. I'd been thinking similar thoughts since being invited to the MoH beta. I've been playing FPS games since the early 90's, and that was the first one to actually bother me. I can play helmet vs. helmet games all day long, but MoH was the first one to actually puts the ethnic theme in the foreground, and it make me feel nearly sick. Right off the bat, it was easy to figure who your allies and enemies were. If they have a helmet, they're on your team, if they have a turban, shoot 'em. All the while hearing very typical 'fanatical Muslim' phrases that nobody really knows what they mean coming out of the speakers.

letterbomber223:

catalyst8:

The Big Eye:

catalyst8:
'Muslim Should Not Equal Villain' is a laughable travesty of an assertion.

Anyone who condones rape, murder, & slavery (as any Christian, Muslim or Jew must do if they follow their 'holy' texts) is a despicable sociopath in dire need of incarceration.

I'm... not sure how you expect anyone to agree with that statement.

The so-called 'holy' texts of the Christian/Jewish/Muslim religion all condone slavery, murder, & rape. They even condemn rape victims to execution. There is no reason for any of the followers of that bizarre Arab death cult to be excused the role of villain, because the religion they follow is so villainous.

You're wrong. Read the Qur'an, and the Bible. Both say it is against god's law to kill. Anyone who stones a woman to death is not a muslim. Killing people for being gay is also anti-islamic because the quran says there shall be no compulsion in religion and anyone who breaks these laws is not a muslim.

I was wondering how long it would be before the 'No True Scotsman' argument reared it's fatuous head.

The Tanakh, Bible, & Qur'an all condone atrocities: The Bible & Tanakh order the murder of children (Leviticus 20:9 & Deuteronomy 21:18-21), rape victims (Deut. 22:23-24), homosexuals (Lev 20:13); The Qur'an condones murder in various Hadith e.g. kill all non-Muslims 8:39, murder rape victims (because apparently that's adultery according to Islam) An-Nur 24:2-9, the list goes on & on & on, but you get the point.

I could cite chapter & verse upon chapter & verse from each of the despicable 'holy' texts of each of the three sects of the Abrahamic religion, & they'd demonstrate that murder isn't only encouraged, it's compulsory. I could also demonstrate numerous passages which condone & enforce slavery e.g. Colossians 3:22, Qur'an 4:24 also goes so far as to allow the rape of female slaves.

Instead let me stick specifically to the topic of Muslim villainy. The following is Muslim law in action (state execution of rape victims, fortune tellers, homosexuals, people walking on the cracks in the pavement), enjoy your Muslim 'justice' in action:

Fortune teller charged with witchcraft faces beheading
http://womenagainstshariah.blogspot.com/2010/04/fortune-teller-faces-execution-in-saudi.html

Gang-rape VICTIM gets 200 lashes, six months in jail & faces death penalty
http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/nov/15saudi.htm

Female journalist, 54 years old, arrested, raped & beaten to death. Post mortem revealed "A skull fracture, two broken fingers, missing fingernails, a crushed big toe and a broken nose [as a result of] torture."
http://www.iran-press-service.com/ips/articles-2005/april-2005/kazemi_report_1405.shtml

This is your 'religion of peace' is it? A sickening concoction of misogyny, sexual abuse, extreme bigotry, torture & murder.

It is worth discussing whether there is anything the games industry can do about it. After all, they cater to a need. A lot of people want to see terrorists as the enemy. It sells. Besides that, you are asking a gamer to look up jihad (one of your examples), so he/she gets the meaning of the word.

We are talking about games. In a world where most people can't be bothered to even know the capital city of their neighbouring country, can you really expect gamers to look up stuff like this? Is that even realistic? If all people would look up stuff they have an opinion about, the outcome would be world peace.

WaderiAAA:

ZippyDSMlee:
..... you do realize the good guys in the POP are either Muslim or damn close same for Aladdin, I think we haz failuerz to comunicatez going on...as all I am seeing is "presumption: middle eastern=bad!" discuss.

All I see is people and some of them are damn hot,even covered in 2 robes worth of material!Eyes are sexy damnit!!

How would you define "damn close" to Muslim? You're either Muslim or you aren't. Just because Israel is close to Muslim states, doesn't make it an almost Muslim country and the same goes for India - which is the setting of Aladdin and a country where Muslims are a minority.

Mmmm depending where the story derived from it can be a mostly Muslim.

Middle eastern is damn close enough, like European and Catholic/Christan/Jew.

this is why gaming isnt taken serious, we refuse to look at the racism in the media. Good to see escapist is. Bravo

catalyst8:

letterbomber223:

catalyst8:

The Big Eye:

catalyst8:
'Muslim Should Not Equal Villain' is a laughable travesty of an assertion.

Anyone who condones rape, murder, & slavery (as any Christian, Muslim or Jew must do if they follow their 'holy' texts) is a despicable sociopath in dire need of incarceration.

I'm... not sure how you expect anyone to agree with that statement.

The so-called 'holy' texts of the Christian/Jewish/Muslim religion all condone slavery, murder, & rape. They even condemn rape victims to execution. There is no reason for any of the followers of that bizarre Arab death cult to be excused the role of villain, because the religion they follow is so villainous.

You're wrong. Read the Qur'an, and the Bible. Both say it is against god's law to kill. Anyone who stones a woman to death is not a muslim. Killing people for being gay is also anti-islamic because the quran says there shall be no compulsion in religion and anyone who breaks these laws is not a muslim.

I was wondering how long it would be before the 'No True Scotsman' argument reared it's fatuous head.

The Tanakh, Bible, & Qur'an all condone atrocities: The Bible & Tanakh order the murder of children (Leviticus 20:9 & Deuteronomy 21:18-21), rape victims (Deut. 22:23-24), homosexuals (Lev 20:13); The Qur'an condones murder in various Hadith e.g. kill all non-Muslims 8:39, murder rape victims (because apparently that's adultery according to Islam) An-Nur 24:2-9, the list goes on & on & on, but you get the point.

I could cite chapter & verse upon chapter & verse from each of the despicable 'holy' texts of each of the three sects of the Abrahamic religion, & they'd demonstrate that murder isn't only encouraged, it's compulsory. I could also demonstrate numerous passages which condone & enforce slavery e.g. Colossians 3:22, Qur'an 4:24 also goes so far as to allow the rape of female slaves.

Instead let me stick specifically to the topic of Muslim villainy. The following is Muslim law in action (state execution of rape victims, fortune tellers, homosexuals, people walking on the cracks in the pavement), enjoy your Muslim 'justice' in action:

Fortune teller charged with witchcraft faces beheading
http://womenagainstshariah.blogspot.com/2010/04/fortune-teller-faces-execution-in-saudi.html

Gang-rape VICTIM gets 200 lashes, six months in jail & faces death penalty
http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/nov/15saudi.htm

Female journalist, 54 years old, arrested, raped & beaten to death. Post mortem revealed "A skull fracture, two broken fingers, missing fingernails, a crushed big toe and a broken nose [as a result of] torture."
http://www.iran-press-service.com/ips/articles-2005/april-2005/kazemi_report_1405.shtml

This is your 'religion of peace' is it? A sickening concoction of misogyny, sexual abuse, extreme bigotry, torture & murder.

Shame your intellect isn't half the size of your ego. A:It's not MY religion. B: The hadiths and the sunna are separate from the Qur'an. C: the Qur'an CLEARLY states that many people will seek to use it as an excuse to break god's law, and these people will be the worst of all (because as the book says: to kill one man is as heinous as killing all of humanity.) The 'examples' you sight do nothing more than support the Qur'ans claim to be the only transcendental text on earth. (which I don't believe it is, FYI though my religious beliefs, and those of others should not make them a viable target for hatred like yours)
Do you play tennis? Cause you just got SERVED!

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