Machete vs. The Expendables

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They both look inexplicably stupid to me.

ultimateownage:
Come on, it's motherfucking Rodriguez! Versus the shit fest of the year. There's no contest. Rodriguez knows how to make good films, and he definitely knows how to make B-movies.

I agree, this is basically Stallone vs Rodriguez, one was trying to figure out how a camera should be held (and didn't manage to) while the other has been doing quality stuff for over a decade.

But yeah, if The Expendables was terrible, and had probably the worst use ever for some of the cast, specially Jet Li, and the fact that 80% of the budget was spent on the cast and 15% on explosives was very easily noticeable.

Most of the people that enjoyed The Expendables mostly quote the mindless fun, but I have a hard time figuring out how someone could enjoy the movie. The action scenes were hindered by outrageously bad camera work, the fight scenes are uninteresting, which is a shame when you have Jet Li on the cast and make him a wimp, there were no funny moments, the only laugh I had the whole movie was when

, and there really are no redeeming factors to be had to mitigate the bad action, since the movie is 50% action, 50% retarded exposition of retarded story and crappy one liners.

Shale_Dirk:

JourneyThroughHell:
Threat? Haha, what?

I'm just saying that I could've turned my comment in a rant, if I hated his opinion so much.

Also, "it's the Internet"? So what? Does that somehow make you calling me and others "whiners" okay, yet me trying to refute that - not?

People ask for Bob to review The Expendables
Bob reviews The Expendables, people don't like that he didn't like it, and shamed other people for liking it. They demand he gives a further explanation. He clarifies a little in the comment section of the review, and people whine more.
Bob brings up The Expendables the following week to make comparison points to what a good B-movie should be doing, and people whine because he's "digging into the wound". People continue to whine because he doesn't clarify exactly what the issues were with the movie.
Bob writes a column specifically outlining what he doesn't like about the individual components of the movie, and some of the first responses are, "Well if you'd only done that two weeks ago we wouldn't be so mad, but I don't agree", etc.

You disagree with his opinions. Power to you. I'm tired of people complaining like small children, Bob coddling them, and then these same people making a bigger stink and threaten they'll get the internet to turn on him, like they have for the last two weeks.

Refute away, just don't preface it with, "You should have done this".

lolz, thanks for doing this for me. My heart sank when I saw his posts and realized I'd have to go on a big rant to defeat him. Cause you know, I MUST WIN ON TEH INTERNETS!! Ignorance can be a pain, luckily we can just label him as troll and pretend we won the argument =)

Oh well, Expendables = Bad, gonna go see Machete tonight. Thanks Movie Bob, keep it up.

Bob, I'm starting to think you don't know how to let go. For as much as you seem to HATE The Expendables, you sure do talk a lot about it.

Ever heard the phrase "beating a dead horse"? Everyone else has moved on to other movies, maybe you should too.

You know what, if MovieBob had put all this into his review, these valid points, and not just bagged on the Expendables, calling it stupid and crying about Scott Pilgrim, I wouldn't have minded him slapping the movie with an F and neither would alot of people.
It really is a shame that it's taken him this long to make some valid points about a movie he reviewed a few weeks ago. And by the way, stuff doesn't need to have a deeper meaning to be good.

I love a good cage match. Nice to see Trejo and Rodriguez come out on top in this one.

I rather enjoyed both reviews, and this article. Honestly, if you read/watch reviews to tell you what to think about movies, you deserve what you get; if you read/watch them to confirm your opinion, you've no right to be indignant when the reviewer disagrees; and if you read/watch them for entertainment, then listening to someone rail against a credo with legitimate points is about as entertaining as it gets.

Yes, reviews "should" be objective, but that's not really possible. People have opinions, and all judgments are, at their core, opinions. Asking a critic to leave their opinions out of a review will leave you with no review at all.

Good work, Bob. I applaud you.

Hmm... why is context important to Machete but not The Expendables? I'd hate for you to be inconsistent, Bo.

And yet, out of the two movies, I'd much rather see The Expendables again *shrug*

Zeeky_Santos:

MovieBob:
Machete vs. The Expendables

It's a B-movie shootout between Rodriguez and Stallone.

Read Full Article

You are a genius. I want you to know that. Don't let the rest of those assholes get to you when they complain that you called them idiots. You have every right to feel the basic human emotion of anger and more so to blame those who deserve it. Good work this week Bob!

why would you quote that? i have to agree with your point but you've really weakened it by being the one to express it.

to moviebob, good article. now just go and replace the audio from the actual expendables video with his and the bitching at you will be completely undeserved.

Zeeky_Santos:

MovieBob:
Machete vs. The Expendables

It's a B-movie shootout between Rodriguez and Stallone.

Read Full Article

You are a genius. I want you to know that. Don't let the rest of those assholes get to you when they complain that you called them idiots. You have every right to feel the basic human emotion of anger and more so to blame those who deserve it. Good work this week Bob!

People are idiots because they decided to go to a movie with every action star ever over a movie with Micheal Cera?

Alright then.

Why would he use the large intestine? The small one is longer.

SideburnsPuppy:
Why would he use the large intestine? The small one is longer.

Yes, but they're sort of attached...

My only gripe is: How was the AA-12 from Expendables not the iconic kill? (or series of kills?) Say what you will about the rest of the movie, but how is an automatic, 32 round mag shotgun not awesome?

With the distance travelled, I'm guessing both got some action :)

Anyway, He covers the Expendables thing because so many people wouldn't let it go. I imagine this is the end of it, even if people carry on this week.

CptShiv:
My only gripe is: How was the AA-12 from Expendables not the iconic kill? (or series of kills?) Say what you will about the rest of the movie, but how is an automatic, 32 round mag shotgun not awesome?

Awesome it may be, one awesome kill cannot redeem an entire movie. The point is that a movie is better and usually more memorable if it has some substance to it. Example: Audience will be excited to watch characters shoot each other, but the audience will be much more engaged and interested if they care about those characters or the reason that fight is happening.

zipzod:

CptShiv:
My only gripe is: How was the AA-12 from Expendables not the iconic kill? (or series of kills?) Say what you will about the rest of the movie, but how is an automatic, 32 round mag shotgun not awesome?

Awesome it may be, one awesome kill cannot redeem an entire movie. The point is that a movie is better and usually more memorable if it has some substance to it. Example: Audience will be excited to watch characters shoot each other, but the audience will be much more engaged and interested if they care about those characters or the reason that fight is happening.

I agree with you fully, I just can't fathom how the AA-12 wasn't the coolest part of the movie to bob.

"but once you see him "fight" you're instantly reminded of why his action-hero status plummeted. Bummer."

Hey! Seagal was awesome in Cock Puncher! Wait... oh yeah, Onion movie...

DiscoAtThePanic:
Bob, maybe you cannot convince other people to think like you and you should stop trying? If you had not come out and attacked the fans of the Expendables instead of just saying you did not like the movie, maybe the whole mess never would have gotten so out of hand.

I agree, and its rather ironic as well since he said something similar to that in a Game Overthinker video about the whole "games are art" thing Ebert caused and immediately withdrew (somewhat) if I remember right, I should look the video up again to doublecheck though... Practice what ye preach applies here if true...

Besides, my friend loved watching the Expendables, just like he enjoyed seeing Scott Pilgrim several times in the span of a month, so suck on that...

speaking of pilgrim, Ebert has yet to review the movie... wonder why... heh.

Ask George Carlin

Well I can't now! D:

And aren't we still avoiding the point people made that it wasn't so much the negative review of the film that got people pissed off, but rather making fun of, demonizing, and overgeneralizing the people who wanted to go see the film, not once but twice? In two different reviews?

I get you're point, and I fully understand why you hated the movie, but saying those things about people who wanted to go see it and/or liked it for what it was, that was going overboard, and to top it all off, using your "fratboy impression" in your Piranhas 3D & Centurion review to represent the people who called you out on it just struck me as a bit immature and lame, especially after you tried to prop up Piranhas 3D for the blood and for naked lesbian sex in 3D. I'm likely the only one to say this, but that's NOT much of a good reason for me to see it over The Expendables.

Comparing it with Machete, on the other hand, was a much better way of explaining the flaws of the movie while propping up anotheryou want people to see. And wait, they downgraded Jet Lee to a comic relief that can't win a fight without assistance? What the freaking Hell?! That freaking blows, man! Not only is that completely unfair, but it's kind of racist in a sense, that Asian martial artist who can kick all sorts of ass without using weapons is less of a threat than the big, beefy douchebags that are pretty much interchangeable with each other?!

Well, whatever, you still kind of own an apology to the guys you ridiculed, but you've made your other point clear.

This really is one of those articles you should've co-written with a reviewer that loved The Expendables. I think that would've been far more interesting since, as has been stated, your dislike for the film really shines through in its segments. Not defending the movie (haven't seen it), and Machete does sound interesting, I just think this format for discussion was a mistake.

I would hesitate to compare them. They're both action movies, but whereas Stallone is going for the 80s action flick style , Rodriguez is going for grindhouse exploitation style. Hence the differences in the portrayal of graphic violence.

Saying that, I disagree with MovieBob's suggestion that The Expendables lacked memorable or violent kills. What about Lundgren's opening "warning shot", that strafing run, or that incredible shotgun? It is that kind of excessive, over-the-top action that made the picture reminiscent of Commando, or Predator.

Bob is definitely right about each action hero lacking proper screen time and characterisation. Jet and that other guy I don't recognise got a really lousy deal.

ragingasian36:

Zeeky_Santos:

MovieBob:
Machete vs. The Expendables

It's a B-movie shootout between Rodriguez and Stallone.

Read Full Article

You are a genius. I want you to know that. Don't let the rest of those assholes get to you when they complain that you called them idiots. You have every right to feel the basic human emotion of anger and more so to blame those who deserve it. Good work this week Bob!

why would you quote that? i have to agree with your point but you've really weakened it by being the one to express it.

Wait what?

titaniumChampion:

I don't agree that people are a-holes that voiced their opinion and outrage over being called idiots. And to be honest that's not all he said to get people upset, it was an abusive thing to say and was unnecessary for a movie review. I want you to stop a moment and look at any other movie critic/reviewer articles to see if they attacked the audience of the movie. The audience does not deserve his ire.

Yes they do. How often do you hear people whining about the same ol', same ol' in cinema? You hear the audience clamoring something novel, something original... And when they get it they go see a second rate action movie instead. The same thing happens with games, the same thing happens with books and music, and the message the consumer sends is that they prefer something safe to something new. That their dollars say something different than their mouths is indeed idiotic and getting outraged over something minor like a movie critic insulting them does not help their case. If they really don't like it then they should say their peace and walk away. The fact that many of them are still here watching his videos indicates that they have nothing better to do with themselves than be insulted by a critic they no longer respect. Movie Bob can't rob them of their dignity because they've already given it away.

Also, I don't get why people say other critics don't do this. Have you ever watched Siskel and Ebert, or Ebert and Roeper? Have you ever read the man's column? Right there you have a prominent critic who has taken everyone to task at some point in his career. Lots of other critics do the same exact thing. Criticism isn't purely objective; it can't be when you're dealing with art. Good criticism balances objectivity with subjectivity and tells you how likely you are to enjoy the movie based on your relationship with the critic. When subjectivity is eliminated from the equation criticism fails because it's the human element that makes it worthwhile.

So basically Bob is using Machete and The Expendables as this year's equivalent to his compare/contrast of Transformers and 2012 from last year, the only difference being that Transformers wasn't protected as much as Expendables. Good read.

Aiddon:
This sums up WHY I could give a fuck less about Stallone's eg- I mean, The Expendables. In two weeks I would have forgotten about the damn thing, if that (I had Metroid: Other M anyway) due to Machet's INSANE beats. It's quite clear that Stallone's talent as an action director is severely limited at best; trying the shaky-cam thing in a movie like this doesn't work unless you know what the hell you're doing. Plus Stallone's writing peaked at First Blood and his considerable talents just continued to atrophy (which is mostly his own damn fault, the fool). Now that Bob (and hopefully EVERYONE ELSE) has gotten this out of their system we can move on to more constructive things...like plowing through various types of aliens.

Agreed

Krat Arona:
Bob, I'm starting to think you don't know how to let go. For as much as you seem to HATE The Expendables, you sure do talk a lot about it.

Ever heard the phrase "beating a dead horse"? Everyone else has moved on to other movies, maybe you should too.

I don't blame him to be honest, i think any true fan of the dodgy piles of crap (but inexplicably entertaining) 80's action films would feel the same way. When i first heard about the expendables i had high hopes and was expecting a team of old fart action heroes (where the hell was Carl Weathers?) taking on some cheesy bad guy in some stupid balls out ultra violent action scenes with a ton of nods and references to those crappy movies i (inexplicably) love so much.

I'm STILL annoyed by it because i KNOW it could have been so much better, why do you think people still rage about the Star Wars prequels? Well, rage might not be the right word, i'm not angry, just very disappointed.

Anyway, back on topic, i am going to see machete this afternoon, so i'll see if Movie Bobs arguements over how much better it is prove true.

CptShiv:
My only gripe is: How was the AA-12 from Expendables not the iconic kill? (or series of kills?) Say what you will about the rest of the movie, but how is an automatic, 32 round mag shotgun not awesome?

Well... all things like this are subjective of course, and I'll admit right up front that I'm not a "gun guy" in the sense that I didn't really have a reference of what to "expect" out of the AA-12 or anything to compare it to. (When I play FPS games, I never know which gun I'm "supposed" to have a real hard-on to grab - I typically just take whatever has the most shots per mag and keep it the whole game and stick something with a scope in reserve if it's an option) Plus, the shootouts in the film aren't especially well-staged, so for me that whole sequence was just bad guys flying slightly further back and a much louder "BANG!" sound.

But, more importantly, it didn't strike me as as much of a character scene. The two-man axe-kick, at least, you get the film's only real moment where two of these guys act like a trained/tested military unit - snapping into almost-mechanical two-moving-as-one action. Suddenly there's almost a sense of history and camraderie between whatever-Li's-name-was and whatever-Statham's-name-was.

By contrast, the described scene from "Machete" - while certainly creative and audacious enough to rate high on it's own - is all the MORE memorable because it's such a great character-establishing moment for the hero. See, the film is VERY consciously working to ram home the idea that Machete isn't just a mindless bruiser but a quick-thinking, highly-intelligent operator; which isn't easy to do without slowing down the momentum. So instead, they use scenes like this to let his actions define him - he improvises a distraction and a lethal-weapon out of stuff he finds around the hospital, and executes the intestine-swing based on something he overheard from the doctor. So while looking awesome, it also tells us important things about the guy too. Contrast this with the "arc" of the AA-12 element in Expendables, which is basically just "Terry Crewes tells us he likes his awesome gun" followed by "see? He told you the gun was loud."

Now, I wouldn't presume to tell Stallone how to do his job, but off the top of my head here's how that might work out better: Instead of giving Crewes the gun right off the bat, give it to one of the bad guys and have Crewes notice it on Stallone & Statham's "recon footage." Have him get all excited and geek-out over the AA-12's specs. That gives him two extra details of character depth: Surprise! He's the smartypants "tech-head" of the team AND he's crazy-observant about background details. PLUS, it gives the audience something to root for regarding him: We now REALLY want to see him get his hands on that gun. Later, during the big shootout, have him finally come upon the thing. Close-up on the gun, heroic music swell, close on Crewes, BIG smile, pick up and arm the gun, HUUUUUGE cheer from the audience, transitioning into sustained applause as he puts it to work - we're thrilled to see this gun that's been built-up work, AND we're happy because HE'S happy.

Here's the deal: Machete may have been a better movie than the Expendables, but it's still not a movie that has real depth. It took a one-dimensional concept (Rebel Alliance v. the Evil Empire) and made it two-dimensional (also there is racism). We can do better.

The thing is, as mentioned in the article, the movie isn't subtle at all. The issue is. It's not about insane racists versus heroic underdogs anymore than it's about heroic vigilantes maintaining a border against an ever growing horde of leeches and criminals. Those are strawman arguments, and that's all the movie is making. A good movie would show you the benefits and drawbacks to each side, such that at the end, while you're positive which side you're on, you have no idea where the filmmakers stand. Better yet, you're convinced the filmmakers ultimately take your side in the issue until you talk to your friend who saw the movie with you and is equally certain that they support his opposing viewpoint. And then you both go argue about it on the internet for the next three weeks.

Zeeky_Santos:

MovieBob:
Machete vs. The Expendables

It's a B-movie shootout between Rodriguez and Stallone.

Read Full Article

You are a genius. I want you to know that. Don't let the rest of those assholes get to you when they complain that you called them idiots. You have every right to feel the basic human emotion of anger and more so to blame those who deserve it. Good work this week Bob!

And they have the right to complain when MovieBob calls then assholes.

Enough about The Expendables. We know you don't like it.

heamrh:
you know what Bob, get over it, your a snob it's that simple, so if you just keep that in mind we can move on to another movie, and you can keep going up your own ass.

Just because he is comparing a movie he disliked to a movie he liked does mean you should come into this thread and insult him. It was one movie he got mad at. He has made many other good reviews and I we need to give him the benefit of the doubt.

On Topic: Machete looks like a pretty gory and awesome film. The idea that some guy gets his large intestine ripped out and used as a rope is cool. I have got to see this movie.

While I do agree with Bob's analysis, I would just like to point out that with proper use of language, you can make ANY story sound stupid.

SirPumpkinLongshanks:
-snip-

I guess I missed the episode where they sat in the theater not doing an insightful critique of a film, but instead shouting "f*ck everyone who likes this" and "this makes me question evolution" over and over. In a film that Ebert thoroughly hated (North,1994) he goes over point by point what he hated and gave reasons. At no point did his evaluation turn to the audience, he simply mentions that this will be marketed to kids. That is professional ladies and gents.

MB called everyone sheep, but from what I can gather from your first paragraph is that they aren't being led in the direction you want them to be. Popularity is the measure of success, and that means appealing to a wider audience. I don't blame people for not enjoying every new idea out there all of the time. Some things become great on their own, some things achieve cult status, and others don't get any attention at all. If you have $60 dollars to your name only, and want to purchase something that will keep you entertained and satisfied, you will likely pick something safe as well. Dollar value aside, it's a hard sell to tell everyone you have to invest in experimental or outside their norm medium. Everyone wants to be entertained, and you need to accept that people will choose things, regardless of what they claim, that are safe as human nature.

Lastly, Inception did incredibly well at the box office and reviews. That is an experimental/out of the norm concept. That became successful and popular with the audience. Two key differences between Inception and SPVTW: Marketing and Demographic.

MovieBob:

CptShiv:
My only gripe is: How was the AA-12 from Expendables not the iconic kill? (or series of kills?) Say what you will about the rest of the movie, but how is an automatic, 32 round mag shotgun not awesome?

Well... all things like this are subjective of course, and I'll admit right up front that I'm not a "gun guy" in the sense that I didn't really have a reference of what to "expect" out of the AA-12 or anything to compare it to. (When I play FPS games, I never know which gun I'm "supposed" to have a real hard-on to grab - I typically just take whatever has the most shots per mag and keep it the whole game and stick something with a scope in reserve if it's an option) Plus, the shootouts in the film aren't especially well-staged, so for me that whole sequence was just bad guys flying slightly further back and a much louder "BANG!" sound.

But, more importantly, it didn't strike me as as much of a character scene. The two-man axe-kick, at least, you get the film's only real moment where two of these guys act like a trained/tested military unit - snapping into almost-mechanical two-moving-as-one action. Suddenly there's almost a sense of history and camraderie between whatever-Li's-name-was and whatever-Statham's-name-was.

By contrast, the described scene from "Machete" - while certainly creative and audacious enough to rate high on it's own - is all the MORE memorable because it's such a great character-establishing moment for the hero. See, the film is VERY consciously working to ram home the idea that Machete isn't just a mindless bruiser but a quick-thinking, highly-intelligent operator; which isn't easy to do without slowing down the momentum. So instead, they use scenes like this to let his actions define him - he improvises a distraction and a lethal-weapon out of stuff he finds around the hospital, and executes the intestine-swing based on something he overheard from the doctor. So while looking awesome, it also tells us important things about the guy too. Contrast this with the "arc" of the AA-12 element in Expendables, which is basically just "Terry Crewes tells us he likes his awesome gun" followed by "see? He told you the gun was loud."

Now, I wouldn't presume to tell Stallone how to do his job, but off the top of my head here's how that might work out better: Instead of giving Crewes the gun right off the bat, give it to one of the bad guys and have Crewes notice it on Stallone & Statham's "recon footage." Have him get all excited and geek-out over the AA-12's specs. That gives him two extra details of character depth: Surprise! He's the smartypants "tech-head" of the team AND he's crazy-observant about background details. PLUS, it gives the audience something to root for regarding him: We now REALLY want to see him get his hands on that gun. Later, during the big shootout, have him finally come upon the thing. Close-up on the gun, heroic music swell, close on Crewes, BIG smile, pick up and arm the gun, HUUUUUGE cheer from the audience, transitioning into sustained applause as he puts it to work - we're thrilled to see this gun that's been built-up work, AND we're happy because HE'S happy.

tl;dr.
But really though, that scene you described would have been a huge improvement on the movie, and I suppose you do have a point about your iconic kill. However, I am a huge fan of the AA-12, so when I saw the thing was even in this movie, I let out a squeal of joy. But, to each his own I suppose.

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