PAX 2010: Torchlight II Hands-On

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PAX 2010: Torchlight II Hands-On

Remember what you didn't like about Torchlight? Yeah, they changed it.

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Torchlight 2? Awesome.

Multiplayer? Awesome

Goggle-wearing ferret? TOTALLY AWESOME!

I'm sold for this game already.

(Also the fact that it's steam-punk made me mentally 'squee'.)

Is it weird I'm looking forward to Torchlight 2 more than Diablo 3?

After what was an eternity of waiting, we find ourselves looking forward to a deluge of excellent action RPGs. I am looking forward to the next few years.

Sevre90210:
Is it weird I'm looking forward to Torchlight 2 more than Diablo 3?

Depends entirely on who you're asking, as for me, no, it's not wierd as I like Torchlight a lot more than Diablo.

Even I reinstalled Diablo 2 a couple of days ago just for the heck of it and oh my, Diablo 2 hasn't aged pretty well, except for the cinematics, the game feels almost archaic compared to what Torchlight brought.

Color me excited for Torchlight 2 =).

Why do I feel like this will be another "Multiplayer is our main focus! Single-player? HA!!! What's that?" game? Long live the single-player mode!

EDIT: Ignore my insane ramblings. I didn't realize that the multiplayer was just drop-in/drop-out to the normal game. I am an idiot with mutton chops.

V8 Ninja:
Why do I feel like this will be another "Multiplayer is our main focus! Single-player? HA!!! What's that?" game? Long live the single-player mode!

Er. I think you're misunderstanding the type of multiplayer they're talking about here.

John Funk:

V8 Ninja:
Why do I feel like this will be another "Multiplayer is our main focus! Single-player? HA!!! What's that?" game? Long live the single-player mode!

Er. I think you're misunderstanding the type of multiplayer they're talking about here.

Thanks for pointing that out. I kinda did miss the mark. Like, a lot. XP

SupahGamuh:

Sevre90210:
Is it weird I'm looking forward to Torchlight 2 more than Diablo 3?

Depends entirely on who you're asking, as for me, no, it's not wierd as I like Torchlight a lot more than Diablo.

Even I reinstalled Diablo 2 a couple of days ago just for the heck of it and oh my, Diablo 2 hasn't aged pretty well, except for the cinematics, the game feels almost archaic compared to what Torchlight brought.

Color me excited for Torchlight 2 =).

With you on that; Diablo2 feels nasty these days and torchlight gave me, effectively, a new version of diablo 1 to scratch that itch. So long as the price stays as nice as the first game I'm way more interested in it than Diablo3.

What torchlight really needed as well as multilayer is way more gear though, if it's going to take more of my time I need to see less of the same stuff coming up all the time. And more pets, I loved the pet mods for torchlight even if some of them were pure cheese.

edit:need to remember to proofread damn it!

Those were the glaring flaws? Really?

For me, the glaring flaws were the loot system which insured that 90% of your spectacular treasure was just menial junk, too few skills unbelievably padded and repetitive slow, grindy gameplay, and the fact that every single thing in the game was a clone of Diablo II done not as well.

But hey, as long as it's outdoors and I can give my rogue different hair...

Here are a few fixes that would take negligible effort and would improve the game:
1. Remove the need to identify items.
2. Have loot be rarer and more likely to be significant rather than constantly inundating you with junk.
3. Have predesigned dungeons with proper encounter structure and length instead of a random generator which produces padded and repetitive dungeon structures.

ArmorArmadillo:
Here are a few fixes that would take negligible effort and would improve the game:
1. Remove the need to identify items.
2. Have loot be rarer and more likely to be significant rather than constantly inundating you with junk.
3. Have predesigned dungeons with proper encounter structure and length instead of a random generator which produces padded and repetitive dungeon structures.

I'm not sure about 2, I'm sure there is some form of mod for it, but the other two would take 1 minute to get with Torchleech. There are loads of predesigned maps around, a few of them are even have puzzles mixed in.

Oh man, I can't wait. I loved Torchlight, and being able to play with my friends would be awesome.

I played Torchlight one at a friends house, and I found it pretty fun. I'm putting this one on my "Keep an eye on" list.

DazZ.:

ArmorArmadillo:
Here are a few fixes that would take negligible effort and would improve the game:
1. Remove the need to identify items.
2. Have loot be rarer and more likely to be significant rather than constantly inundating you with junk.
3. Have predesigned dungeons with proper encounter structure and length instead of a random generator which produces padded and repetitive dungeon structures.

I'm not sure about 2, I'm sure there is some form of mod for it, but the other two would take 1 minute to get with Torchleech. There are loads of predesigned maps around, a few of them are even have puzzles mixed in.

As a mac user, such mods are mostly unusable for me. That said, I don't like giving credit to developers because players made a mod that fixed a problem. (Aside from the credit for making Torchlight mod-friendly, something which, by the way, it seems like multiplayer can't support)

That said, Torchlight is a fun game, I've enjoyed playing it. All I'm saying is that Runic is bragging about fixing "glaring flaws" that I didn't even notice while really glaring flaws seem unnoticed.

Anyone else seeing the parallels in the Development of Torchlight > Torchlight 2, with the development of Diablo > Diablo 2.

Namely, Diablo also changed its environments from all cavernous to including outdoor areas, the plot involves following a character from the first game.

I am not saying this is necessarily a bad thing, it is just interesting. The plot could be a homage to Diablo 2 I suppose.

I will probably buy it and enjoy it!

You'll be happy to know then that we're revising the id mechanic, spending a lot more time on itemization, making a lot more interesting handmade content to provide more structure to the mix, as well as spending more time and energy on class differentiation. We've got our own laundry list of ills that we want to see remedied. :)

This is like people saying that the only drawback to Starcraft 2 was the lack or LAN support, and they released Starcraft 3 three months after which was exactly the same but with LAN support.

Honestly I can't say I'm very enthusiastic about Torchlight having a sequel.

The multiplayer is nice, but unless they find a way to make it compelling for replay there's no real motivation to grind away like there was in the old D2 days.

I might actually buy this game.

My only complaint about the first game was that I couldn't move around using wsad but that isn't a very Diablo-like control scheme anyway so I'll let it slide.

ArmorArmadillo:
(Aside from the credit for making Torchlight mod-friendly, something which, by the way, it seems like multiplayer can't support)

Torchlight 2 will come with mod tools as well, and they will be supported in multiplayer.
Why do you think multiplayer couldn't support mods?

I actually like how there was no multiplayer in Torchlight. I detest playing with other people.

the antithesis:
I actually like how there was no multiplayer in Torchlight. I detest playing with other people.

Then don't play multiplayer, problem solved.

Considering the epic failure of so many other d2 like games in the past (even including some worked on by past employees of blizzard) I thought Torchlight did amazingly well. There are certainly many ways it could be improved but compared to the original diablo in scale at least I thought it was quite enjoyable. I still retained many of the fun aspects of D2, had better more current graphics and was much cheaper (also allowed very easy mod support!)

I remember reading that Torchlight 3 may actually be released before Diablo 3 and if that is true, and it does happen, it could allow Runic to seriously gather alot of fans....at least if the game continues to evolve a decent amount through each incarnation.

At the same time there are some negative signs I see as well. If Runic is already working on Torchlight 3, or plans on doing so right away after releasing Torchlight 2, that means there will probably be no expansion pack for the second version that adds more classes etc. In a way to me that is like giving up on a game before you have even released it and saying "It will not be good enough, we need to make another version." before audiences have even had a chance to play it, make comments and suggestions and hopefully want to play it more.

I remember hearing a Torchlight MMO might be in the works as well.....which is interesting. A great way for Torchlight to really blow away Diablo is to increase the multiplayer aspect beyond what D2 could offer. In many ways Torchlight fell short of the game D2 was even before the expansion pack even though it was released so many years later by people who worked on the original. It's a fun game but a casual one while D2 even pre-expansion was basically an addiction for way to many people. No ladders and multiplayer is probably a big part of that but just allowing a drop in/drop out multiplayer mode is not going to solve that problem. I was never a big dueling player but it certainly helped create a D2 economy and helped keep the game current. I think Diablo 2 would still have been an extremely popular game without the expansion but it was, in my opinion, the expansion and later patches that really pushed it over the edge into the realms of unprecedented popularity.

The first Diablo was a great game that I played many times, but I doubt I played it over 200 hours all together. The second game has the title of most played by me and many of my friends over the years and is still played by many even now. I hope Torchlight evolves much like Diablo did and I would rather see a higher price tag then just an updated version of Torchlight with a few minor improvements and multiplayer.

The game needs more diversity between characters, especially if multiplayer is going to be available now. While you could play each character in different ways, they all played extremely similarly. I loved the customization of characters in D2 and created many guides and character builds over the years (more then 20 I'm sure) that was the fun for me. In torchlight there wasn't the same ability to create your own character....and I am certainly not talking about how it looks.

So I agree with an above poster. T2 needs to seriously improve it's skill system, item drop and gem system and hopefully include runes of some type or something that makes you work long term for very powerful items (other then heirlooms). A leveling system of some kind for your pet would be nice or at least some other options besides the spells you add (more along the lines of hirelings in D2 for instance...but honestly why just clone....improve and make pets into a full fledged customizable character as well, with pet skills, stats etc).

Imagine having not only the ability to PvP or battle in an arena, but having the ability to set your pets to fight each other while the players watch. That could be seriously fun. Maybe even include the ability to place small bets on the pets hehe.

Torchlight has great potential because it has already grabbed the attention of a large audience. I hope it uses this opportunity to not just fix many of the complaints about the first game (adding multiplayer, fixing identify/item drops etc) but to surpass D2 in as many ways as possible. I love D2 and have played it to death but it is way past time for another game to take the reigns. Sacred, Titan quest etc have all to a large extent created a similar gameplay (and in many ways superior) to what we saw in Torchlight (although at a higher price tag). Torchlight 2 needs to separate itself from the pack and hopefully blow that tired old game (Decard Cain may actually be younger then some of the initial d2 players now) out of the water.

^ Not reading this

Anyways, I'd give this 10/10 but it doesn't have linux client.

VanBasten:

ArmorArmadillo:
(Aside from the credit for making Torchlight mod-friendly, something which, by the way, it seems like multiplayer can't support)

Torchlight 2 will come with mod tools as well, and they will be supported in multiplayer.
Why do you think multiplayer couldn't support mods?

Because what if two players mods conflict?
Or what if you play a custom class not supported by the other players mods?
Or what if someone just uses mods to cheat?

Torchlight was a boring game, but considering the price it was alright. Besides, nobody expected this game to light the world on fire anyway. If they just get rid of the "identifying stuff" gimmick they have going on, I'll certainly have fun with it. That's all I would ask for anyway.

GeneticallyModifiedDucks:
Torchlight was a boring game, but considering the price it was alright. Besides, nobody expected this game to light the world on fire anyway. If they just get rid of the "identifying stuff" gimmick they have going on, I'll certainly have fun with it. That's all I would ask for anyway.

Identifying items isn't Torchlight's gimmick, try looking up the meaning of the word.

OP: It looks nice so far, so as long as they correct the flaws they noticed in 1st game and keep it a cheap (I don't think people would pay 50$ for it) it should do just fine.

mexicola:

GeneticallyModifiedDucks:
Torchlight was a boring game, but considering the price it was alright. Besides, nobody expected this game to light the world on fire anyway. If they just get rid of the "identifying stuff" gimmick they have going on, I'll certainly have fun with it. That's all I would ask for anyway.

Identifying items isn't Torchlight's gimmick, try looking up the meaning of the word.

OP: It looks nice so far, so as long as they correct the flaws they noticed in 1st game and keep it a cheap (I don't think people would pay 50$ for it) it should do just fine.

OK, gameplay mechanic then. That doesn't change the fact that the game made me run back to town to sell all the items which neede "identifying". I liked how you can use the dog to sell your stuff without running back to town, but without identifying the stuff first you hardly got any gold. And monsters don't drop nearly enough scrolls. So basically I had to go to town myself and buy some scrolls, then identify, then sell... It was a boring chore. If they remove it, I can see myself having fun with Torchlight 2.

GeneticallyModifiedDucks:

mexicola:

GeneticallyModifiedDucks:
Torchlight was a boring game, but considering the price it was alright. Besides, nobody expected this game to light the world on fire anyway. If they just get rid of the "identifying stuff" gimmick they have going on, I'll certainly have fun with it. That's all I would ask for anyway.

Identifying items isn't Torchlight's gimmick, try looking up the meaning of the word.

OP: It looks nice so far, so as long as they correct the flaws they noticed in 1st game and keep it a cheap (I don't think people would pay 50$ for it) it should do just fine.

OK, gameplay mechanic then. That doesn't change the fact that the game made me run back to town to sell all the items which neede "identifying". I liked how you can use the dog to sell your stuff without running back to town, but without identifying the stuff first you hardly got any gold. And monsters don't drop nearly enough scrolls. So basically I had to go to town myself and buy some scrolls, then identify, then sell... It was a boring chore. If they remove it, I can see myself having fun with Torchlight 2.

I agree the selling can get tedious but that's the "problem" with all diablo clones out there, I mean the whole game revolves around loot grinding. As for the scrolls, well you can easily learn "identify" spell that can save you a ton of id kits.

ArmorArmadillo:

VanBasten:

ArmorArmadillo:
(Aside from the credit for making Torchlight mod-friendly, something which, by the way, it seems like multiplayer can't support)

Torchlight 2 will come with mod tools as well, and they will be supported in multiplayer.
Why do you think multiplayer couldn't support mods?

Because what if two players mods conflict?
Or what if you play a custom class not supported by the other players mods?
Or what if someone just uses mods to cheat?

Modded multiplayer sessions will require all the players to use the same mods, same as any other game that has multiplayer and modding capabilities of course.

And no, it won't be 100% cheat proof.

VanBasten:

ArmorArmadillo:

VanBasten:

ArmorArmadillo:
(Aside from the credit for making Torchlight mod-friendly, something which, by the way, it seems like multiplayer can't support)

Torchlight 2 will come with mod tools as well, and they will be supported in multiplayer.
Why do you think multiplayer couldn't support mods?

Because what if two players mods conflict?
Or what if you play a custom class not supported by the other players mods?
Or what if someone just uses mods to cheat?

Modded multiplayer sessions will require all the players to use the same mods, same as any other game that has multiplayer and modding capabilities of course.

And no, it won't be 100% cheat proof.

Which essentially means that modding will be limited to preset player groups and not for any kind of online matching. Hoepfully they'll have a "Turn Off Mods" button to make such play possible for those who want it.

Also, what would happen if you used mods to beef up a characters gold and gear supply, then immediately switch them off to play them in normal games.

ArmorArmadillo:
Also, what would happen if you used mods to beef up a characters gold and gear supply, then immediately switch them off to play them in normal games.

The game is still early in developement, those sort of what ifs are really too hypothetical to discuss right now. However, the developers stated that they don't intend to create an alternative to battle.net, there will be no official ladder, and a cheat free game is not their top priority.

I hope they make T2 as low CPU spec friendly as the first one.

Torchlight with multiplayer? That's a sale right there.

I never played the first one but the secound one did look nice at PAX but I never got a chance to play the PAX demo. If I do decide to pick this one up am I missing anything by skipping the first one?

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