What's Wrong with Xbox Live?

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What's Wrong with Xbox Live?

Everything would be much better if Xbox would just let us run its servers.

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Little stingy, eh Microsoft?
That's just depressing, really.

Shamus Young:

Everything would be much better if Xbox would just let us run its servers.

Good luck Shamus, prepare for the Valve hate.

I may actually be able to play Modern Warfare 2 for more than 10 minutes if it had dedicated servers. On any platform.

And this is also why the PC version of Halo 2 and even Halo 1 is still up. The community runs the servers.

If you're already footing the cost then it may not seem an issue, but if you're someone like me who wasn't paying for Gold already then all the hike does is turn you off more. Especially when the justification is that they have shit like Facebook and whatnot; so either stuff I can get free on my PC, or stuff that you have to pay for already on the PC which you then pay more for to use on XBL.

Not to mention that I don't see why I should be paying more to unlock the other half of my games. I think 360-exclusive users would be in for a bit of a (pleasant) shock if they got a chance to use Steam.

Ah, not to worry, according to some experts there won't be another console generation just PC gaming. Problem solved.

Ok, I made up the above fact.

In all honesty, if they proposed a tier system where you can get services depending how much you are willing to pay, I'd opt for the online only and just play with my friends. Not interested in all the other services or whatever, I want to pay accordingly to the services I use. Not something general.

Microsoft no doubt worry that the average console player can't spell dedicated let alone handle playing multiplayer games through them.

Equally, it's hardly all roses & icecream with dedicated servers. The last game I played online regularly which used them, COD2, was a navigational nightmare full of servers that were empty, locked, playing a map I didn't like, or servers that seemed open but then after 10minutes of loading informed me that it was infact full. As a casual player who really doesn't care who I play with, dedicated servers are more of a hassle than they're worth when one can just select ones preferences & let the game do the rest*.

*Yes I hate Xbox American teens as much as the next person, but muting mics seems an easier option than dedicated servers to escape that nagging issue.

Uber Entertainment is giving us a free DLC for Monday Night Combat.
They've also got a system in place that allows them to modify their game, and have already.

Saints Row 2, Red Dead Redemption, Dynasty Warriors 6 Empire, Rock Band/Rock Band 2, Ace Combat 6, etc. have all had DLC for free, to different degrees of quality.

Burnout Paradise had a ton of free content released in patches.

Are we sure that Valve can't do what they did? I mean, some of the publishers there are big, but Uber's like 12 people.

The_root_of_all_evil:
Good luck Shamus, prepare for the Valve hate.

Taken a complete anti-Xbox PC elitism stance now have we?

OT: Yeah they need to change the rules round a bit for sure. Don't deny that.

But also they shut down the old servers so they could update current Live. Not because it cost too much to maintain.

I like the idea of sponsored servers. But if they let gamers do their own moderating of servers it'll be like Gears of War 1 public games.

*Yeah I made a kill! Oh I've been booted because I killed the host...*

The_root_of_all_evil:

Shamus Young:

Everything would be much better if Xbox would just let us run its servers.

Good luck Shamus, prepare for the Valve hate.

Not entirely sure what that's supposed to mean.

OT: I never realized that Xbox Live had so many problems. I'm actually kind of glad I haven't wasted money on buying it. I like my Left 4 Dead experience the way it is. Getting the xbox version would sorta kill that.

GamesB2:
But if they let gamers do their own moderating of servers it'll be like Gears of War 1 public games.

*Yeah I made a kill! Oh I've been booted because I killed the host...*

Either you didn't read the article or you're completely oblivious of how player run dedicated servers work.

Cousin_IT:
Microsoft no doubt worry that the average console

Dude they can do it like L4D2 on the PC. If you want you can just quickly find a server and kill shit or go to a list of servers and play with your friends in a dedicated server.

Shamus Young:
Experienced Points: What's Wrong with Xbox Live?
Read Full Article

Great article Shamus! Well done! Maybe this way consoles can be able to host mods like new maps and other shit.

Denamic:
Either you didn't read the article or you're completely oblivious of how player run dedicated servers work.

Well yes I did skim the article originally.

Then I read the article in depth.

Then you get an instance of a game where you have all the admin powers. You can set the maps and the game mode and boot or mute at will.

So yeah my original point still stands.

I hope this never happens I like the status quo, don't mess with it, could only end badly, then maybe be better.

Zachary Amaranth:
Uber Entertainment is giving us a free DLC for Monday Night Combat.
They've also got a system in place that allows them to modify their game, and have already.

Saints Row 2, Red Dead Redemption, Dynasty Warriors 6 Empire, Rock Band/Rock Band 2, Ace Combat 6, etc. have all had DLC for free, to different degrees of quality.

Burnout Paradise had a ton of free content released in patches.

Are we sure that Valve can't do what they did? I mean, some of the publishers there are big, but Uber's like 12 people.

Its case by case I believe. The quality of DLC is the major factor though. Valve tends to add a lot to their games, new maps and weaponry, whole new systems (the hat thing and such), and the last thing Microsoft would want to see is such a large chunk of content given away for free. Ultimately they get to decide what is released and not for free, not Valve.

Straying Bullet:
In all honesty, if they proposed a tier system where you can get services depending how much you are willing to pay, I'd opt for the online only and just play with my friends. Not interested in all the other services or whatever, I want to pay accordingly to the services I use. Not something general.

100% agree.
I already pay the 50 a year or so JUST for the online play. I don't use facebook, I don't use twitter, I hate Last.FM so no use there, I have 0 interest in the ESPN thing, and I'm not a Netflix Member (and even if I was, PS3 and Wii won't make you pay any additional costs like the 360 does).

The $10 hike then, to me, is B.S. Its a ripoff, especially compared to the other systems and the PC. My friend agrees as well, the only thing he uses besides online play is Netflix, but again, he also has the PS3 and Wii, and prefers to just toss the disk in and watch Netflix on those now. No sense in paying the $50 a year to use something he already pays monthly for.

And games I don't think the point would stand well if players ran servers for Gears. Yeah you'd run into that, but you do for any game. You'd also end up finding players who let you play, no matter how many times you killed the host.
and, off-topic, but where's that avatar from? Can't tell if I've seen it from something before.

GamesB2:

Denamic:
Either you didn't read the article or you're completely oblivious of how player run dedicated servers work.

Well yes I did skim the article originally.

Then I read the article in depth.

Then you get an instance of a game where you have all the admin powers. You can set the maps and the game mode and boot or mute at will.

So yeah my original point still stands.

See, the thing is, what you're describing is called a "shitty server".
Wait, don't panic! It's okay.
Just put that server on your shitlist and play on another server.

The article mentioned this, by the way.
I wouldn't call that 'in depth' reading.

Denamic:
See, the thing is, what you're describing is called a "shitty server".
Wait, don't panic! It's okay.
Just put that server on your shitlist and play on another server.

Yeah but I'm surprised at how many PC dedicated servers are like that too.

And anyway Microsoft wouldn't want people boosting achievements and stuff.

I can just see MS outright saying no and I can't blame them... Live is more of a guided service than an open platform.

GamesB2:

Denamic:
Either you didn't read the article or you're completely oblivious of how player run dedicated servers work.

Well yes I did skim the article originally.

Then I read the article in depth.

Then you get an instance of a game where you have all the admin powers. You can set the maps and the game mode and boot or mute at will.

So yeah my original point still stands.

So ehm. *Cough Cough* The Dedicated servers are soooo popular because everyone likes being kicked and banned for killing hosts? Or because its free and the hosts are usually nice people. Take TF2 Counterstrike Hl2mods Battlefield all those nice games with Hosts not actually kicking people for doing anything but the wrong stuff. Like say Teamkilling or being afk.

Brilliant and eloquently put!

Microsoft seems to me to be evil for the sake of being evil. I can't understand the LIVE situation myself and I'm definitely not going to pay for it anymore.

Nikolaz72:
So ehm. *Cough Cough* The Dedicated servers are soooo popular because everyone likes being kicked and banned for killing hosts? Or because its free and the hosts are usually nice people. Take TF2 Counterstrike Hl2mods Battlefield all those nice games with Hosts not actually kicking people for doing anything but the wrong stuff. Like say Teamkilling or being afk.

Hmm?

No... I assume you're talking about PC.

I was talking about consoles.

Yeah there are some shitty PC servers but I realise that there are still a fair few that aren't.

Dedicated servers work more for PC than they would for Xbox.

cursedseishi:
Its case by case I believe. The quality of DLC is the major factor though. Valve tends to add a lot to their games, new maps and weaponry, whole new systems (the hat thing and such), and the last thing Microsoft would want to see is such a large chunk of content given away for free. Ultimately they get to decide what is released and not for free, not Valve.

Then explain Burnout: Paradise.

I'm pretty sure any excuse that can be made for Valve will fall to scrutiny.

Shamus you are a genius....... i couldn't have put it better myself, what was described in this article is probably the biggest advantage pc gaming has over console gaming.

In order to run a proper walled garden service, you can't have any sort of chinks, leaks, or holes in your walls. Allowing valve to distribute free content through live would undermine the entire service's completely self-reinforcing/circular pricing schemes.

Also, "fag" no longer has any meaning, much less any relation to homosexuals. It, and any sort of homosexual act, is simply the new breed of curse words that scares all the un-hip squares, daddy-O. Nothing to do with hating or fearing gay people. "Choke to death on your daddy's cock" has a little more bite than "stfu."

GamesB2:

Nikolaz72:
So ehm. *Cough Cough* The Dedicated servers are soooo popular because everyone likes being kicked and banned for killing hosts? Or because its free and the hosts are usually nice people. Take TF2 Counterstrike Hl2mods Battlefield all those nice games with Hosts not actually kicking people for doing anything but the wrong stuff. Like say Teamkilling or being afk.

Hmm?

No... I assume you're talking about PC.

I was talking about consoles.

Yeah there are some shitty PC servers but I realise that there are still a fair few that aren't.

Dedicated servers work more for PC than they would for Xbox.

Its like saying America would never function as a country with its citizens having an awfull lack of guns. Stuff like that would take some getting used to for some. And be abused by others. PC has always had dedicated servers and so will the consoles hopefully in the future.

Allowing users to run servers would take control away from microsoft, they can't allow that.

Nikolaz72:
Its like saying America would never function as a country with its citizens having an awfull lack of guns. Stuff like that would take some getting used to for some. And be abused by others. PC has always had dedicated servers and so will the consoles hopefully in the future.

I didn't really get that post... still I'll just go off the 'would take some getting used to' bit.

I don't think it would work as well because Microsoft use their service to guide people more.

They give them easy ways to access games and game content made by the developers that works (we hope) so things like dedicated servers and mods might not interest a large portion of XBL.

I know people who use gaming websites like this would be interested but for the other 90-odd percent they wouldn't be interested.

But that's just how I see it.

Cousin_IT:
Microsoft no doubt worry that the average console player can't spell dedicated let alone handle playing multiplayer games through them.

Equally, it's hardly all roses & icecream with dedicated servers. The last game I played online regularly which used them, COD2, was a navigational nightmare full of servers that were empty, locked, playing a map I didn't like, or servers that seemed open but then after 10minutes of loading informed me that it was infact full. As a casual player who really doesn't care who I play with, dedicated servers are more of a hassle than they're worth when one can just select ones preferences & let the game do the rest*.

*Yes I hate Xbox American teens as much as the next person, but muting mics seems an easier option than dedicated servers to escape that nagging issue.

That was going to be my point, consoles are a different market to PCs because you can game casually, you pick up the controller and press about ten buttons and your in a match (if your in a country with good internet and lots of fellow players), you don't have to know which servers are good or know that shorthand that tells you this server is battle-rifles only. You just game, no you don't get exactly the environment that fits your ideal but its typically a happy medium for everyone.

To put it another way you don't have to find and fit with a clique you just get to be part of the community.

It's not gonna happen Shamus.
You know that Microsoft doesn't have any vision. The only vision that MS has, is the ones it bought out up until those employees leave right after that.

Whoever implements this system on a console first gets my money. Possibly for a long time.

Wouldn't be so bad if they gave online play free. I'm sure they would still be making money on it.

Denamic:

GamesB2:

Denamic:
Either you didn't read the article or you're completely oblivious of how player run dedicated servers work.

Well yes I did skim the article originally.

Then I read the article in depth.

Then you get an instance of a game where you have all the admin powers. You can set the maps and the game mode and boot or mute at will.

So yeah my original point still stands.

See, the thing is, what you're describing is called a "shitty server".
Wait, don't panic! It's okay.
Just put that server on your shitlist and play on another server.

The article mentioned this, by the way.
I wouldn't call that 'in depth' reading.

Yeah, I know servers like that, everyone hates them and goes to the good ones, unless they are trolls and than they flock to servers like that, which is great because it keeps them out of my play zone.

GamesB2:

The_root_of_all_evil:
Good luck Shamus, prepare for the Valve hate.

Taken a complete anti-Xbox PC elitism stance now have we?

OT: Yeah they need to change the rules round a bit for sure. Don't deny that.

But also they shut down the old servers so they could update current Live. Not because it cost too much to maintain.

I like the idea of sponsored servers. But if they let gamers do their own moderating of servers it'll be like Gears of War 1 public games.

*Yeah I made a kill! Oh I've been booted because I killed the host...*

I agree with that, but there are ways around such bs happening constantly.

The person running the server verifies server capacity and ranked or unranked.

Then number of boots per day is set ... extra money for more boots ... but never infinite boots.

If boots are too high or consistently cap, put a symbol next to the server to warn people that the host is insecure about his/her noobishness.

It could be done but it wouldn't be easy.

Isn't Steamworks is getting integrated into Valve games on the Playstation? Something like that anyways. That could be the start of a much better multiplayer experience on the PS3.

Imagine that we had two forums: An un-moderated one for vegetarians and a carefully moderated one for steak lovers. When the vegetarian forum becomes a boiling cauldron of rate, racism, pornography, and shock pictures, I don't think it's fair to blame vegetarians. I'm sure there are nice people that own Xboxes. (I do.) But they aren't going to say much if everyone else is filling chat with homophobic bile.

This would happen, if only because vegetarians are the evil spawn of the devil.

instantbenz:

GamesB2:

The_root_of_all_evil:
Good luck Shamus, prepare for the Valve hate.

Taken a complete anti-Xbox PC elitism stance now have we?

OT: Yeah they need to change the rules round a bit for sure. Don't deny that.

But also they shut down the old servers so they could update current Live. Not because it cost too much to maintain.

I like the idea of sponsored servers. But if they let gamers do their own moderating of servers it'll be like Gears of War 1 public games.

*Yeah I made a kill! Oh I've been booted because I killed the host...*

I agree with that, but there are ways around such bs happening constantly.

The person running the server verifies server capacity and ranked or unranked.

Then number of boots per day is set ... extra money for more boots ... but never infinite boots.

If boots are too high or consistently cap, put a symbol next to the server to warn people that the host is insecure about his/her noobishness.

It could be done but it wouldn't be easy.

OR, you could log onto another damn server, which is the point of private servers.

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