Escapist News Network: West Washing

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Iron your tie, Jeremy, you're on the news.

Really?

Therumancer:

As far as "West Washing" goes, I think rather than the "Jello" option what we're seeing is evidence that pre-defined characters should be a thing of the past as they cannot appeal to everyone. Games like "Saint's Row 2" have demonstrated that with current technology it's possible to give the player both a highly customizable Avatar to be the protaganist, but
also have multiple voice tracks that can be selected from for the cinematics and dialogue.

Really? Have you no concept of storytelling? If someone creates a story with good characterization, they made the main character the way they are for a reason. For example, what if you had the choice of "customizing" Indiana Jones, instead of having the iconic character. You see what that detracts? Good characters are there for a reason, and being allowed to just summon a character from the depths of your limited imagination isn't what I call storytelling. I'll admit, I like some games that do that, but I don't play most of them for the story. But if someone does go to the trouble of making a protagonist who has his OWN looks and personality, I will assume there is a reason for it. Now, Unfortunately storytelling in most games is still not as good as it should be (with some exceptions) so in those instance maybe customizing your character would be fine. But if a good writer makes a story and characters, I think they should remain as he/she intended. As an appreciater of good stories, I don't care for people feeling everything should be customizable, when a lot of the time, the creator is much better at this than you are.

Xhoyl:
Really?

Therumancer:

As far as "West Washing" goes, I think rather than the "Jello" option what we're seeing is evidence that pre-defined characters should be a thing of the past as they cannot appeal to everyone. Games like "Saint's Row 2" have demonstrated that with current technology it's possible to give the player both a highly customizable Avatar to be the protaganist, but
also have multiple voice tracks that can be selected from for the cinematics and dialogue.

Really? Have you no concept of storytelling? If someone creates a story with good characterization, they made the main character the way they are for a reason. For example, what if you had the choice of "customizing" Indiana Jones, instead of having the iconic character. You see what that detracts? Good characters are there for a reason, and being allowed to just summon a character from the depths of your limited imagination isn't what I call storytelling. I'll admit, I like some games that do that, but I don't play most of them for the story. But if someone does go to the trouble of making a protagonist who has his OWN looks and personality, I will assume there is a reason for it. Now, Unfortunately storytelling in most games is still not as good as it should be (with some exceptions) so in those instance maybe customizing your character would be fine. But if a good writer makes a story and characters, I think they should remain as he/she intended. As an appreciater of good stories, I don't care for people feeling everything should be customizable, when a lot of the time, the creator is much better at this than you are.

I feel that using iconic characters like "Indiana Jones" pales before letting people create their own character, especially when it comes to a sense of immersion. The point is that any story that can be written for a single protaganist, can be written from multiple slightly differant perspectives (with slightly differant line delivery, etc...) as a few recent games have shown.

The only real arguement in favor of assigning someone a character is that it's easier and takes less work for the developers.

I <3 "Bzzzz"

The Unskippable desk was waaay out in left field, and all the more funny because of it. Also, because I have to:

All glory to the Amorphous Blob.

Dont offend Blobby.

Best ENN ever!

Actually if you're a fan of 'Until We Win' (Lordkat.com) you know that some older games were actually made MORE difficult for their North America release. Ostensibly this was to prevent you from renting the game and beating it in a weekend.

Therumancer:

Xhoyl:
Really?

Therumancer:

As far as "West Washing" goes, I think rather than the "Jello" option what we're seeing is evidence that pre-defined characters should be a thing of the past as they cannot appeal to everyone. Games like "Saint's Row 2" have demonstrated that with current technology it's possible to give the player both a highly customizable Avatar to be the protaganist, but
also have multiple voice tracks that can be selected from for the cinematics and dialogue.

Really? Have you no concept of storytelling? If someone creates a story with good characterization, they made the main character the way they are for a reason. For example, what if you had the choice of "customizing" Indiana Jones, instead of having the iconic character. You see what that detracts? Good characters are there for a reason, and being allowed to just summon a character from the depths of your limited imagination isn't what I call storytelling. I'll admit, I like some games that do that, but I don't play most of them for the story. But if someone does go to the trouble of making a protagonist who has his OWN looks and personality, I will assume there is a reason for it. Now, Unfortunately storytelling in most games is still not as good as it should be (with some exceptions) so in those instance maybe customizing your character would be fine. But if a good writer makes a story and characters, I think they should remain as he/she intended. As an appreciater of good stories, I don't care for people feeling everything should be customizable, when a lot of the time, the creator is much better at this than you are.

I feel that using iconic characters like "Indiana Jones" pales before letting people create their own character, especially when it comes to a sense of immersion. The point is that any story that can be written for a single protaganist, can be written from multiple slightly differant perspectives (with slightly differant line delivery, etc...) as a few recent games have shown.

The only real arguement in favor of assigning someone a character is that it's easier and takes less work for the developers.

Honestly, you really don't have any real concept of good stories. The number ones thing that a story is about? The dramatic question. And what is the dramatic question? The desire of the PROTAGONIST. Read a book about fiction sometime. A good story tends to be a good story because it has a good protagonist, that the story could not exist without. Which means replacing him/her with a lame "choose who they are and what they look like" person would not work. Indiana Jones may not be the best example of a great protagonist, perhaps Lelouch from Code Geass (if you're an anime fan) how would the story be without him? Non existent. Now this is all assuming the story is actually any good, which it may not be. In which case I could care less what they do with the "protagonist" and I'll agree it's fun to customize. And even when it is a good story, there's nothing to stop customization of the protags skills, stats, and abilities (unless said skills are also important). But if he/she is integral to the story, then changing their looks past clothing, or changing their personality, is something that simply should not be done.

Xhoyl:
[it's easier and takes less work for the developers.

Honestly, you really don't have any real concept of good stories. The number ones thing that a story is about? The dramatic question. And what is the dramatic question? The desire of the PROTAGONIST. Read a book about fiction sometime. A good story tends to be a good story because it has a good protagonist, that the story could not exist without. Which means replacing him/her with a lame "choose who they are and what they look like" person would not work. Indiana Jones may not be the best example of a great protagonist, perhaps Lelouch from Code Geass (if you're an anime fan) how would the story be without him? Non existent. Now this is all assuming the story is actually any good, which it may not be. In which case I could care less what they do with the "protagonist" and I'll agree it's fun to customize. And even when it is a good story, there's nothing to stop customization of the protags skills, stats, and abilities (unless said skills are also important). But if he/she is integral to the story, then changing their looks past clothing, or changing their personality, is something that simply should not be done.[/quote]

However, video games are not about telling stories the way books do, but by giving the player control over the story and it's presumed outcome. The player is the one who decides how the protaganist(s) go about things, and in many case what motivates them, especially in RPGs.

Being given an iconic or pre-defined character lowers the immersion and feel that the player is somehow in control of making desicians. Ideally in an RPG, or computer game, it's the player who should define the character as much as possible, and the storyteller that sets the overreacing objective, and sets the stage with everything else.

Predefined characters are one of the things that is holding back the medium, and leading to people who by and large agree with you creating things that are little more than movies where the gameplay matters very little.

Shame on you Microsoft. Amorphous blobs have rights too.

Therumancer:

However, video games are not about telling stories the way books do, but by giving the player control over the story and it's presumed outcome. The player is the one who decides how the protaganist(s) go about things, and in many case what motivates them, especially in RPGs.

Being given an iconic or pre-defined character lowers the immersion and feel that the player is somehow in control of making desicians. Ideally in an RPG, or computer game, it's the player who should define the character as much as possible, and the storyteller that sets the overreacing objective, and sets the stage with everything else.

I'm not saying that it should be done all the time. Certain games do benefit from not having predefined characters if the story isn't extremely important. But a game with a good story and characters CAN also have good gameplay and still be immersing. A great example is Beyond Good and Evil, if you ever played that, a cookie cutter protagonist would not have sufficed. And the game is still fun and immersing. It does not have to detract from a game. It often does however, especially when the writers aren't very good. In which case they should stick to the character creation stuff. As for me, I'll write good stories and characters for games that people can care about.

I HATE YOU NINTENDO!!!

sooperman:
Well I'm in favor of "West Washing". The East and the West have been influencing each other for generations, but the East still seems to make video games on completely different standards(and if not games, their characters).

There's nothing wrong with Japan's culture or Korea's MMOs, but I think that the silent majority is taking a stand against the weeaboos. World of Goo showed us that blobs do make effective characters if the plot stays simple, so maybe it's worth a try.

We can settle the problem of East vs West once and for all

MARVEL VS CAPCOM 3

anyways, now that THAT'S out of my system, I take offense to "west washing" westerners don't suck at games... okay most westerners do... BUT! I'd like to see someone else! (as in- other then me) beat Contra NES without the Konami code... or beat City Escape in less then 2:17, or actually I'd like to see anyone beat me at anything that isn't Halo/CoD (I hate modern shooters)

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