Your Favorite Game Sucks

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I find it funny that many people seemed to have agreed with #2 from last week, especially considering that outside these forums most other people, that have not checked out the Escapist or its forums and only heard of it from reputation, consider it as 'That elitist place, that loves Yahtzee and criticizing anything.'

I suppose in light of that information, this article is indeed badly needed. Though personally I've grown to despise the opposite spectrum a bit more as of late. All the snarky forum trolls and posters of furyyyyy who feel the need to detract and hate on things at every moment of every day in the hopes of 'drowning out' the fanboys of popular things (or at least such has been my experience from the SWTOR forums as of late).

Honestly, fanboys might make people squirm at times, but the elitists that feel the need to 'express their opinions' over a subject at least 5 times every day and put down the fans on forums really are the saddest of the bunch that have recently driven me away from forums far moreso than any fanboy. Especially since I used to be one of them and am pretty sure I know exactly how they feel they're 'obligated' to 'bring people down to reality' whereas in fact they should maybe just let go of arguing over fictional entities and works of art and enjoy life a bit more for a change rather than trying to change it over the freaking internet, where their 'actions' amount to, as ED put it, pissing in an ocean of piss.

So yeah, last week's article is still prefferable for me, since it's more wonderfully balanced and succinct. But still, if people fail to detect sarcasm over a certain point, it's only fair to clarify it so. Fair enough article. :)

Truehare:
You know, I see a lot of people here confusing "stating your opinion" with "being a troll". There is a big difference there, folks.

Let me give you an example: If I say "this game is a big pile of dog shit", that is just my opinion. But if I say "this game is a big pile of dog shit and everyone who likes it is a stupid dogshit-eater", then I'm being an asshole.

Can you see the difference? Stating an opinion about something, be it a game, movie, book or ice cream, shouldn't be considered offensive to anyone or anything but the game/movie/book/ice cream itself. I'm not trying to offend people who have a different opinion than mine.

People in general and fanboys in particular should learn to stop taking everything so bloody personally.

Exactly. I never played certian games and don't like them, like Halo, but I can understand the appeal of it. It's just not my kind of game. I don't rage at Halo fans, I just say I don't like Halo. Agree to disagree, people!

jebussaves88:
If Halo Reach was causing mass infertility, tooth loss and discolouration of the skin,...

Must. Not. Reply. Must. Be. Strong. ;)

jebussaves88:

What I take issue with is people verbally dismissing a game via the internet at the very people who are likely to take issue with the criticism they are levelling at it when the person has no contact with the game short of demoing it. SO I think saying its fine to bad mouth a game without playing it is sort of reckless.

But as Shamus writes in his article you can form an opinion of what the game is like on a lot of subjects. What studio made it? What games do they have in their library? Does the game mechanics seem interesting? What about the genre, the story, the settings and so on.

All of these tings must be taken into account when forming an opinion of what a game is like, and if you would be able to like it based on those merits.

When gathering data you look at gameplay videos and read information about the game. I personally haven't bought a game i that were not carefully studied, hence i rarely waste my hard earned greens.

If we were to buy games, that only people who had played the game, could honestly tell us about. Then our opinions would naturally go with the majority. Since they would have to be right. Genre wouldn't matter since a lack of data would render us unable to determine whether its a good game or it just isn't the genre we would be interested in.

I for one dislike Halo Reach. I know its a glossed up version of Halo with slightly improved graphics (and FPS just isn't to my liking). But if were unable to share my thoughts about game design and etc. we would be unable to discuss in details. Maybe by having a meaningful conversation i would give it a chance and like it? (But so far no one has reached beyond: "Its Halo stupid!".

I am Omega:

Truehare:
You know, I see a lot of people here confusing "stating your opinion" with "being a troll". There is a big difference there, folks.

Let me give you an example: If I say "this game is a big pile of dog shit", that is just my opinion. But if I say "this game is a big pile of dog shit and everyone who likes it is a stupid dogshit-eater", then I'm being an asshole.

Can you see the difference? Stating an opinion about something, be it a game, movie, book or ice cream, shouldn't be considered offensive to anyone or anything but the game/movie/book/ice cream itself. I'm not trying to offend people who have a different opinion than mine.

People in general and fanboys in particular should learn to stop taking everything so bloody personally.

Exactly. I never played certian games and don't like them, like Halo, but I can understand the appeal of it. It's just not my kind of game. I don't rage at Halo fans, I just say I don't like Halo. Agree to disagree, people!

Thats fine. You're entitled to your opinion. I don't like Halo any more either. But, assuming when you said "I just say I don't like Halo", it was on an internet forum concerning Halo, what did you hope to gain by voicing this opinion? You haven't played it, you have no actual criticism based on experience. So why did you bother? All that could happen is that you drew attention to yourself from people who have an informed, or maybe even overly biased opinion that contradicts yours. You don't have anything else to add except "Haven't tried it, don't care to". As far as I'm concerned, that's either a waste of time, or openly trolling those people who you know did like it.

Greetz_DK:

Snip

I don't take issue with people forming their opinions without playing the game. I too dismiss games that I know I won't like. What I DON'T do, or agree with, is to go and argue with people who do like it, as I would have no ground to stand on in such an argument. And an argument is what anyone who puts themselves in this position ought to expect. Okay, so I don't like that developer, or its past works, or that genre. Then why should I expect anyone to care what I think in that conversation/forum topic?

Now in the case of Zynga, there is ground to stand on, as constant news coverage shows how corrupt they are. I actually have played one of their games, and grew bored, and I may even occasionally voice an opinion against Zynga, but only because I have played one of their games (which are free-to-play potentially, so there's no excuse) and because I know what scamsters they are. It is a warning to those pulled into their scam.

Quite frankly I've seen more derogatory comments from the so called professional reviewers than from the users of this forum.

I have more respect for people who experience something for themselves and come up with something original to say rather than just saying the same thing that they heard someone else say. If you have nothing to say about The Great Gatsby other than the name sounds really stupid and the cover art looks lame then you are not really contributing much. Go ahead and don't buy the book for those reasons but don't come on like you are making some sort of expert decision.

Shamus Young:
They were satire, but a lot of people agreed with point #2 - that you shouldn't have an opinion on a game until you've played it. This is a horrible and self-destructive attitude to take. As a consumer, it's your job to be discriminating with what you buy.

Right, but your points were directed at game reviewers. I think it's fair for consumers (fanboys or not) to expect reviewers to withhold judgment on a game until they've actually played it.

kementari:

Shamus Young:
They were satire, but a lot of people agreed with point #2 - that you shouldn't have an opinion on a game until you've played it. This is a horrible and self-destructive attitude to take. As a consumer, it's your job to be discriminating with what you buy.

Right, but your points were directed at game reviewers. I think it's fair for consumers (fanboys or not) to expect reviewers to withhold judgment on a game until they've actually played it.

I don't expect reviewers to hold judgement about those who have a different opinion than their own. You wanna insult the game, great, but leave the player out of this.

jebussaves88:

I am Omega:

Truehare:
snip

snip

snip

I never would go on a Halo forum an say that. That would be trolling.I have several friends who are Halo fans who give me headaches simply because I don't have the game, that's all. I'm not dumb enough to do what you mentioned. Going on a forum about that you don't like is being a troll. Not liking it despite not playing it is having an opinion. As long as you aren't a dick about it, there shouldn't be a problem.

I get a lot of flack in my circle of acquaintances for being biased before trying things. I do this almost to a fault, so perhaps it's deserved, but in either case this article made me feel warm and fuzzy (as preaching to the choir usually will).

Shamus Young:

jebussaves88:
Its okay to have an opinion on something, but blurting out you don't like it in a forum only to reveal you haven't actually tried it is understandably going to be met with hostility by those who do like it.

This is the problem. There is no reason for hostility. I LOVE me some ice cream, but if somebody says that ice cream sucks I don't get all angry and confrontational. There is simply no reason.

There lies another problem. If somebody said ice cream sucks I WOULD get all angry and confrontational. If somebody said "I don't care for ice cream," or better yet, "ice cream doesn't appeal to me for these reasons.....," I would be perfectly content.

Sicamat:

kementari:

Shamus Young:
They were satire, but a lot of people agreed with point #2 - that you shouldn't have an opinion on a game until you've played it. This is a horrible and self-destructive attitude to take. As a consumer, it's your job to be discriminating with what you buy.

Right, but your points were directed at game reviewers. I think it's fair for consumers (fanboys or not) to expect reviewers to withhold judgment on a game until they've actually played it.

I don't expect reviewers to hold judgement about those who have a different opinion than their own. You wanna insult the game, great, but leave the player out of this.

O..kay? That doesn't really have anything to do with what I was talking about, but that's a fair opinion to have, I guess? Otherwise, cool story bro.

Shamus Young:
This is the problem. There is no reason for hostility. I LOVE me some ice cream, but if somebody says that ice cream sucks I don't get all angry and confrontational. There is simply no reason.

That's why a lot of people agreed with point 2, though. It's gone too far to the troll side of the spectrum. It's one thing to say Halo is a series that doesn't appeal to you. It's another thing entirely to go out of your way to infuriate the fanbase of it, particularly when you haven't played the game.

Personally, I disagreed with 2 out of personal experience. I have come across far more good games by taking a chance then I've come across stinkers.

I think the point most people with that view were trying to raise (or at least I'd hope it was the case) is that you shouldn't act like you know everything about the game without even trying it. We all do, and all should, use outside information to help in our decision making process prior to purchasing something and this is, as Shamus says, more than okay. It's really the smart thing to do. If something looks like crap to you, then don't buy it. If something looks good but not worth the full price, wait until the price drops. Don't, however, go around bashing a game as if you've personally experienced all of it's faults if you haven't even pressed the start button on it.

Actually... I did try out Farmville for about an hour or two and hated it because it was fucking boring. To me, it wasn't a game, it was a system of menus to fuck around in. Does that make Farmville evil? No, its just really, really fucking boring.

And I gave the Twilight series 3 chances to overcome my preconceived misgivings about the series... i.e. I actually read the first three books of the series before finally deciding that the series wasn't going to be worth my time. Sure, none Twilight's characters act like vampires (for lessons on how to act like a vampire please see the movie Daybreakers and the works of Anne Rice). Does that make Twilight evil? No, its just stupid.

Finally Shamus. Finally.

Your word is pretty much the Ten Commandments on this place. This was needed to be said!

kementari:

Sicamat:

kementari:

Shamus Young:
They were satire, but a lot of people agreed with point #2 - that you shouldn't have an opinion on a game until you've played it. This is a horrible and self-destructive attitude to take. As a consumer, it's your job to be discriminating with what you buy.

Right, but your points were directed at game reviewers. I think it's fair for consumers (fanboys or not) to expect reviewers to withhold judgment on a game until they've actually played it.

I don't expect reviewers to hold judgement about those who have a different opinion than their own. You wanna insult the game, great, but leave the player out of this.

O..kay? That doesn't really have anything to do with what I was talking about, but that's a fair opinion to have, I guess? Otherwise, cool story bro.

I know, I misquoted or maybe I quoted you cause you have the nicest avatar.

We may never know.

Hatred is a more profound emotion than most give it credit for. However, hostility for the unknown/untried/flawed is understandable. The verbal castigation and ire that follow popular and unpopular trends are simply responses from a mewling consumer mass that let our paymasters know that we're paying attention.

kementari:
Right, but your points were directed at game reviewers.

No they weren't.

Shamus Young:
Snip

Ok, are ANY of your article not trolling?

Well...I was all ready to jump in and agree that you can be entitled to your opinion and not waste money on something you're not very keen on. I was also going to agree with jebussaves88 that to have genuine back and forth is going to be more beneficial if based in experience. Then again experience is also subject to opinion.
Forget arguing on the internets.
If you feel like stepping out of a gaming comfort zone, go ask someone you trust that is into said-genre-you-don't-like. Get his or her opinions. He/She may even have a game to let you borrow (keeping you from even wasting money on a rental). Ta-da!

And just to make things clear: The point of the article last week was to show how a fanboy will dismiss any criticism. You either went in with preconceived notions or you didn't know enough about the game in the first place. You're either overlooking the awesome story or you're judging a game on the story when you shouldn't. You either ignored the graphics or you made too big a deal about them. You either skipped the multiplayer or focused too much on it.
No matter how someone expresses their dissatisfaction with a game, a fanboy will be there to let them know they're doing it wrong.

However, shouldn't a reviewer do his or her best to have a well-balanced review that at least covers all parts of the game in question? Not focusing on the multiplayer in a review of Halo 3 is fine. Ignoring it completely, however, is not. (Same goes for Forge Mode).

Also, focusing on the plot of a game that is not story oriented is a legitmate complaint. You shouldn't complain about a simplistic excuse plot of a Mario game while not discussing the power-ups, level design, or gameplay.

The whole "don't judge a game without playing it" is just one of the tools they use, and it's just as invalid as the others. Case in point: Yahtzee's SSBB review. He played the game even though it wasn't his thing, and people slammed him for being "biased." (Yeah. That's what a review is for, you know?) If he had ignored the game some fans would have slammed him for not giving the game a chance, for being afraid to try new things, or for being "unprofessional" by not reviewing a particularly popular title.

Well, it wasn't exactly his best review anyway. While I won't say they were playing it "wrong", I always enjoy the frantic chaos of four players stuck on a smaller area or map more than two seperate duels on opposite ends of a large map (the likely cause of one of his complaints). Also, he had two conflicting complaints about the genre in general (a button masher can defeat a master, but if you unlock all the content your friends will avoid playing you because you're better than them). It's nowhere near his worst review--especially when you look at some of his other Wii-exclusive videos, but some of the negative response he received was quite valid. The idiotic insults that made it into his response video, however, were not.

Shamus Young:

jebussaves88:
Its okay to have an opinion on something, but blurting out you don't like it in a forum only to reveal you haven't actually tried it is understandably going to be met with hostility by those who do like it.

This is the problem. There is no reason for hostility. I LOVE me some ice cream, but if somebody says that ice cream sucks I don't get all angry and confrontational. There is simply no reason.

But surely you get slightly annoyed when someone tells you that what you like is wrong, even if said person hasn't tried it and is going by what they've heard.

I mean sure, they can go ahead and not like a game, i've got no problem with that. But why would you tell someone that the *insert aspect of game here* sucks if you've never experienced it?

Hating on something you've not tried is ok. Telling people who have tried something and enjoyed it that they're wrong isn't.

THIS HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH PROFESSIONAL JOURNALISM.

Shamus Young is not really qualified to be a professional journalist, he never had any training or school to be one. He is very good at writing, but he is very wrong.

Are you seriously going to pay to play every game out there? Then make your own decisions? No! You can't afford that. We(or the Media organization) pay people to supposedly "play" the games for us and give us a fair review of the game so we can form opinions to buy or not. Why do you think we have review critics. Critics are suppose to be fair, it is journalistic ethics, training that almost everyone with a journalist or media specialist has had if they gone to school for it.

Then there are critics out there that don't have those credentials. I mean if they are paying you to review the game, then you should have very well have played it.

Every game has a target audience, a professional reviewer has some understanding of the target audience and knows what is acceptable at graphics, gameplay, story, etc... Things that separate a bad, good, or great game, and if they are not doing this, they are doing something wrong.

Especially wrong if they are not doing the ethically thing, like being paid to write a non-fair review.

Yahtzee is a special case, he doesn't review games to sway people's opinions, it is parody sometime to the extreme for entertainment.

So not wanting to buy a game is the equivalent of hating it? I can't honestly say I hate beets until I eat some. I CAN say I don't WANT them. I can't honestly say I hate the PSP until I try it for a few minutes. But I CAN say I don't WANT to play PSP. You may think I'm arguing semantics, but my point is that you not wanting it shouldn't equal hate unless you've had a bad experience from it. No bad experience, no reason to hate. This applies to anything. What if that thing you happened to have no desire to play turned out to be something you liked when you gave in and picked it up? You honestly end up saying you can hate something because it exists, not because it's detestable. While you have a right to do this, you are certifiably stupid for doing so. So do you HATE, or do you NOT WANT?

I have just decided to stop reading this articles, this has become plain ridiculuos.

Similar note: I recall someone asking me how I would know if Dinner for Schmucks was a mediocre movie if I had not seen it. Regardless of the quality of the movie itself, I know I would probably not like it due to the fact that it seems a bit dull considering the talent in the movie and because it is part of a massive shitstorm of hollywood remakes of foreign films that I detest - not because of their general lack of quality but because there is no reason to reshoot a film that game out 1-10 years ago.

The writing around here has been outstanding lately. Great article.
I hear this all the time when I tell people I hate metal (note: I don't say, "Metal is awful" or anything that confuses preference with absolute truth).

Good work, Shamus. And good work to the staff all around as of late.

I also agree and disagree with this topic. I am generating internet traffic for you Shamus and at the same time indulging in the vain fantasy that you care specifically for my contribution. Your sensibilities are very much middle-of-the-road and very much like my own. Let us bask in the illusions of certainty and purpose.

I'm typically not this cynical, I swear.

I'm still personally in the state of mind that if I haven't played a game, I will most definitely try not to judge it. Unless I'm informed by a reviewer that a game is so utterly unplayable, that every reviewer decides unianimously tell their readers to not buy it, chances are I'll give a game a look at least.

There are too many elements in a game to judge it based on trailers and reviews. Considering trailers are simply footage to showboat the graphics and gameplay and reviews are never objective, it's safe to say that I'd have to play a game to form a valid opinion on it. It's like the kid who doesn't eat his vegetables because they look or smell bad, the idea of food is to eat it. Just like the idea of a game is to play it.

I have very little love for the Halo series, but it's because I've played them all (save ODST) and I know that I don't like them. I enjoyed Combat Evolved, but I didn't assume Halo 2 would be just as fun. In fact, it wasn't. I was bored shitless by it, likewise with Halo 3. Then Reach came out and I played it around a friends and loved it.

The decision of buying a game is so different from picking a book to read or a movie to watch. A majority of movie trailers and book blurbs give a good enough of an overview for me to decide weather or not I want to watch/read it. Because the blurb/trailer will express the genre and the themes. Whilst game trailers do this, it fails to show anything deeper. Which is why I always download demos or at the very most RENT a game before buying it (with the exception of my favourite franchises, because if I enjoyed the past titles I'm willing to risk it).

EDIT: After last weeks delightful and mocking article, I'm really unsure about how serious this weeks is...

You do know, you your self are defending idiots why even comment on somthing you have yet to try when thier are people that have played the game fully. Maybe people shouldnt express hate when they havent delt with the "subject" like Americans are all fat ,southern and are all related. Ive never met an American but hey I can just guess.

I know for a fact I can dislike something without trying it. Case in point...Taco Bell's new menu item..."Dog Shit Taco." I know for certain I won't like it because I know dog shit would make me vomit just to smell it let alone eat it. Same goes for anything Zelda, Sims, Pokemon, Megaman, Final Fantasy, Prince of Perisa, Tekken, or Halo. I go to sleep at night completely content that I have not played one moment of any of those games.

Ah, this article needed to be said. Especially here.

I work hard for my money dammit, you bet your ass I'm going to be very, very critical of what I see. $60 isn't cheap. And in most parts of the world games are more than that. Don't tell me I have to buy/do/read everything to have an opinion on it, because I don't. If I don't buy something, that means my opinion of it is that its not worth the money at the moment. Too many people take it as me hating the game without question.

Maybe if people didn't jump to extremes all the damn time, things would be different. Shamus, you said what needed to be said. Especially in a place like this.

This should be Gospel in the videogame bible XD

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