GREEDo Shoots First

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Jandau:
Lucas is releaseing Star Wars in 3D. Films that weren't recorded with 3D technology are getting converted into 3D. Now let your mind wander over other recent releases that were converted into 3D. This won't be the Star Wars Avatar, this will be the Star Wars Clash of the Titans...

GrinningManiac:
Still don't understand the significance of whatsisface shooting first or not. Why does it matter?

In the original release, Han Solo shot Greedo while they were talking. It set him up as a badass. In the "updated" version, Lucas decided that it made Han look too mean and edited the scene so Greedo shoots at Han first, and then Han fires back in self defence. It was the principle of the thing that pissed people off. There was no need for the change, nobody was bothered and it was basically a symbol of Lucas doing everything waaaay to family friendly.

Whoa, I just remembered I still have my old VHS tapes of Starwars...Well Ill be darned though, I forgot Han Shot first

Thnx for clarifying that up for me.

BehattedWanderer:

Grey Carter:

BehattedWanderer:
Lupin the Third reference? Crazy!

There is?

...was it not? A spring loaded boxing glove coming out of Han's crotch? That is what that is, is it not?

Actually he was supposed to be shooting it out of his gun. I'll have to talk to Cory about that one. Which film does he shoot a boxing glove out of his crotch though? I can't remember that one.

Grey Carter:

BehattedWanderer:

Grey Carter:

BehattedWanderer:
Lupin the Third reference? Crazy!

There is?

...was it not? A spring loaded boxing glove coming out of Han's crotch? That is what that is, is it not?

Actually he was supposed to be shooting it out of his gun. I'll have to talk to Cory about that one. Which film does he shoot a boxing glove out of his crotch though? I can't remember that one.

It was the opening cinematic ending for the series, I believe, where Lupin is diving for a girl's lovelies, and she deploys a spring-powered boxing glove from beneath a towel from between her legs, knocking him away. I thought that's what it was that Han was doing.

Grey Carter:

BehattedWanderer:

Grey Carter:

BehattedWanderer:
Lupin the Third reference? Crazy!

There is?

...was it not? A spring loaded boxing glove coming out of Han's crotch? That is what that is, is it not?

Actually he was supposed to be shooting it out of his gun. I'll have to talk to Cory about that one. Which film does he shoot a boxing glove out of his crotch though? I can't remember that one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm99tmzmXkk

There's the video I was thinking of. It's after they introduce Lupin.

Dorian6:
You will never love a woman as much as George Lucas hates his fans.

basically. God damn it. Way to make your characters ever the more shitty, lucas.

Characterization in the prequel trilogy is terrible.

Madara XIII:
Whoa, I just remembered I still have my old VHS tapes of Starwars...Well Ill be darned though, I forgot Han Shot first

No, no, Han shot, period. Greedo never fired.

I'm a little annoyed at the people who say they don't care about Star Wars looking down their noses at people who are annoyed at the re-release edits. Maybe since you don't know anything about Star Wars, you fail to see the importance of this change?

That's on top of the fact that neither Greedo firing at all and then missing from so close makes any sense. This change annoys people because it damages something (Han's characterization) and creates nothing except paranoid, lifeless family-friendly sanitation.

What if Romeo left town instead of killing himself?

I wasn't really a fan of these comics because I never gave them a chance. But now, after this one, I read through all of them today. Very funny! I wish they were older so that there could be more.

I liked this one. I was already laughing and then suddenly the fist pops out. xD

Deathlyphil:

Yensei:

GrinningManiac:
Still don't understand the significance of whatsisface shooting first or not. Why does it matter?

Because it turns Solo in to a justified wimp instead of a dangerous outlaw? I guess...

Pretty much. It defines Han's character for the first film. When he shoots first it shows that he is dangerous and unpredictable. Therefore Luke and Obi Wan have chosen the wrong person to protect them. It brings in uncertainty and doubt, and makes his transformation at the end of the film much more important.

This is precisely why I've come to view the change as wrong. I didn't have an ardent reaction of fanboy rage upon seeing the scene altered. It did just look funny but I was fine with it. On subsequently reviewing the movie though and having some time to chew over it it weakens the whole character and the premise of the danger solo represents as a whole. And that isn't just "nostalgia blinding me". One change can have a huge impact on a film, like the decision to include Commodus's scene with his father's bust in Gladiator or the decision to Go back to the original ending for Bladerunner.

Hardcore_gamer:

Deathlyphil:

Yensei:

GrinningManiac:
Still don't understand the significance of whatsisface shooting first or not. Why does it matter?

Because it turns Solo in to a justified wimp instead of a dangerous outlaw? I guess...

Pretty much. It defines Han's character for the first film. When he shoots first it shows that he is dangerous and unpredictable. Therefore Luke and Obi Wan have chosen the wrong person to protect them. It brings in uncertainty and doubt, and makes his transformation at the end of the film much more important.

I don't agree, and to be honest I think most of the complaints about the special edition of Star Wars is just pointless nitpicking and whining.

While Han not shooting first may make him seem slightly less unpredictable it doesn't really do anything to impact is overall character. I saw the special edition first, and then years later decided to check out the originals after hearing the Star Wars fanboys talk about how Lucas "had ruined Star Wars" with his Special edition, only to find myself watching the same movies again only with shitty special effects and some missing scenes.

People are being fooled by nostalgia, or they are just being fanboys. And then of course there are also those who enjoy bashing Lucas whenever they can, so they will bash the special edition as well.

I didn't have an ardent reaction of fanboy rage upon seeing the scene altered. It did just look funny the way it's edited but I was fine with it. On subsequently reviewing the movie though and having some time to chew over the change it weakens the character and the premise of the danger solo represents as a whole. And that isn't just "nostalgia blinding me". One change can have a huge impact on a film, like the decision to include Commodus's scene with his father's bust in Gladiator or the decision to go back to the original ending for Bladerunner. You walked into your viewing with the opinion that the people complaining were "just fanboys". You were biased from the start, don't feign objectivity.

Ultimately they are Lucas's films. You won't hear me griping that they "belong to the people" or some bullshit. Fanboys say these things and it does make them harder to take seriously. But for what it's worth even a broken clock is right twice a day. They belong to George Lucas and that means he can change them however he wants. So long as I'm free to have the opinion that sometimes those changes were unnecessary or for the worse.

I'm glad I have the original movies on video. :-)

Han shoots first in my heart =]
and that's all that matters

GREEDo

I saw what you did thar.

Curse your mangey hide, George Lucas....
I'd heard the rumours, but this just makes me want to vomit.

Not the webcomic, the release in 3D, mind you :P

Best one for a couple of weeks, actually.

Ghengis John:
On subsequently reviewing the movie though and having some time to chew over the change it weakens the character and the premise of the danger solo represents as a whole.

How? How does Solo not shooting a defenseless alien make him look less dangerous then a Solo that survives a murder attempt?

Ghengis John:
One change can have a huge impact on a film

I know, and this one doesn't. If anything, Han shooting Gringo (in both versions) is probably one of the most insignificant moments in the film since it has next to no impact on the story line whatsoever. In neither version of the film does the murder have any real impact on the story, it just sort of happens and then its done. The scenes that truly define the characters are where the heroes/villains do something that heavily impacts the story in some way, and Han shooting Gringo isn't one of them.

Ghengis John:
You were biased from the start, don't feign objectivity.

I don't have to be objective anymore then I want to. I hate the Star Wars fanboys, I make no apologies for it.

mechanixis:
Well I think that's just a matter of perspective. If you'd seen the originals first, like the people who take umbrage, you'd probably prefer them.

Why? I literally can't think of anything I saw in the original versions that I found better. Its exactly the same but with missing scenes and worse special effects.

mechanixis:
But honestly, the special editions have some truly horrendous additions in them that clearly demonstrate Lucas was going off the deep end.

For example, he felt this little gem was missing from the original and demanded insertion.

What is so bad about it? It actually makes Jaba's palace look alive, instead of being all lifeless and empty like it is in the original. People complaining that Han shooting first was bad because it affected his character development I can at least understand, but here I can't help but think people are just complaining for the sake of complaining.

So Luke enters the palace, and Jaba is entertaining himself with some music, so what? There was nothing in that scene that looked out of place, no character development was affected, it was just a crime lord amusing himself while one of his slaves danced for him, just what exactly am I suppose to feel enraged about?

hahhaaa oh man that's be hilarious
I've been a Star Wars all my life basically, but I'm having trouble keeping up with all the new stuff they keep pumping out
so I don't really care too much, enjoy stuff when I can, you know?
people can't seem to adopt a non-worshipful attitude (it's how one enjoys Halo while remaining a member of this community)

BehattedWanderer:

Grey Carter:

BehattedWanderer:

Grey Carter:

BehattedWanderer:
Lupin the Third reference? Crazy!

There is?

...was it not? A spring loaded boxing glove coming out of Han's crotch? That is what that is, is it not?

Actually he was supposed to be shooting it out of his gun. I'll have to talk to Cory about that one. Which film does he shoot a boxing glove out of his crotch though? I can't remember that one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm99tmzmXkk

There's the video I was thinking of. It's after they introduce Lupin.

i think i saw it first in an episode of furi kuri, it was probably a reference to lupin but i didnt watch that until later. and truthfully the crotch thing was totally by accident, if i had moved the picture over a little more to the right you could have seen that its coming from his gun at his side... kinda...

foxyexplosion:

BehattedWanderer:

Grey Carter:

BehattedWanderer:

Grey Carter:

BehattedWanderer:
Lupin the Third reference? Crazy!

There is?

...was it not? A spring loaded boxing glove coming out of Han's crotch? That is what that is, is it not?

Actually he was supposed to be shooting it out of his gun. I'll have to talk to Cory about that one. Which film does he shoot a boxing glove out of his crotch though? I can't remember that one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm99tmzmXkk

There's the video I was thinking of. It's after they introduce Lupin.

i think i saw it first in an episode of furi kuri, it was probably a reference to lupin but i didnt watch that until later. and truthfully the crotch thing was totally by accident, if i had moved the picture over a little more to the right you could have seen that its coming from his gun at his side... kinda...

Yup. They actually reference it in that episode, making fun of the one-time appearance of the Green Jacket. But, hey, if it's a FLCL reference instead, I'm totally cool with that too. Furi Kuri is pretty awesome...

As we know Han is a smuggler, looking out for himself and perfectly content with backstabbing some of his freinds (excluding Chewbacca of course) to make money. What we know of Greedo is that he is a trained killer, a bounty hunter that clearly has met Han before and knows what he is capable of. Now, as we see in the scene, they start a conversation. Han knows that Greedo is here for the bounty but due to the fact that he is a smuggler and not a bounty hunter himself, he wants to resolve this peacefully. Greedo on the other hand doesn't care because he knows he will be paid anyway. For all you people who say "where is the logic in that" just think, why would the Empire want Han alive? There would be no point whatsoever in keeping Han alive, so whether Greedo shot him or not they would still get rid of the smuggler.

Now, Greedo is getting impatient, frustrated that right when he meets his bounty he is unable to do anything due to the conversation they were having. He shoots, misses, then Han shoots. At the range they were at it may seem impossible to miss but put into account how innaccurate the blasters were in the first place and the fact that the elevated stress level could have caused Greedo to curve over to the reckless side, we cannot deny that Greedo missing was possible.

Now that that problem has a more realistic look to it rather than a "No, Han shoots first because thats how the movie was made", it can put into perspective how much thought could have been put into it.

Or, you know, they could have just changed it to make it family friendly.

Now to mention on Critical Miss. Why is it that I am both mad at them yet amused at their comics? They make fun of things on a Yahtzee level (which is in itself funny) but I can't help but think that (like Yahtzee) they are overdoing the douchebaggery of it. hmm.

PaulH:
image

That is all ^_^

O_O

Me brain no working now.

Regarding the boxing-glove, I don't think it's supposed to be a referance to Lupin or FLCL, but just a comically cartoonish and non-violent alternative to a real gun. It's apparently coming from Han's crotch because he has his gun under the table in that scene.

Hardcore_gamer:

Ghengis John:
On subsequently reviewing the movie though and having some time to chew over the change it weakens the character and the premise of the danger solo represents as a whole.

How? How does Solo not shooting a defenseless alien make him look less dangerous then a Solo that survives a murder attempt?

Because in the second case it's very clear self-defense. Greedo had fired already and demonstrated an intent to kill Han. What else is Han to do but get Greedo before Greedo gets him?

In the original version, Han shoots Greedo without any immediate danger to his person. Greedo wants to march him over to Jabba for a reward. He could have bribed Greedo, or gone with him to Jabba and tried to work something out, or used tried to use non-lethal force, or run away, but instead he just shoots him, after saying something smug, to boot.

Why should anyone be worried about the character of a man who kills to avoid being immediately killed? But in the original, Han is more ready to kill when there may have been other options.

Hardcore_gamer:

Ghengis John:
One change can have a huge impact on a film

I know, and this one doesn't. If anything, Han shooting Gringo (in both versions) is probably one of the most insignificant moments in the film since it has next to no impact on the story line whatsoever. In neither version of the film does the murder have any real impact on the story, it just sort of happens and then its done. The scenes that truly define the characters are where the heroes/villains do something that heavily impacts the story in some way, and Han shooting Gringo isn't one of them.

Characterization and plot are different things. The proverbial characterization for a villain is to show them kicking a dog. Unless the dog literally comes back to bite them, it's of no importance to the story, but showing their casual cruelty to a helpless beast defines them as an evil person.

To use an example in Star Wars, we have Vader magically chocking the admiral who mocked him. That admiral isn't a real character, and no consequences come from Vader's assault, but it shows Vader's power with the Force and his willingness to nearly kill someone for merely insulting his belief in the Force. Contrast to Obi-won's offer to teach Han and his mild response to Han's rude rebuff.

Hardcore_gamer:

Ghengis John:
You were biased from the start, don't feign objectivity.

I don't have to be objective anymore then I want to. I hate the Star Wars fanboys, I make no apologies for it.

Hate doesn't have to be non-objective. You could hate Star Wars fanboys after an objective assessment of their views and characteristics.

But that's neither here nor there since the point was your hasty judgment that complaining about the re-releases necessarily equals fanboyism, not whether fanboys were bad or not.

And I must say the solipsism of "I don't have to be objective anymore than I want to" annoys me to no end.

Hardcore_gamer:

mechanixis:
But honestly, the special editions have some truly horrendous additions in them that clearly demonstrate Lucas was going off the deep end.

For example, he felt this little gem was missing from the original and demanded insertion.

What is so bad about it?

It's a dumb song? It break the flow of the story with irrelevancies? It's distractingly weird to suddenly have a musical number in this series?

ReinofFire:
Now, as we see in the scene, they start a conversation. Han knows that Greedo is here for the bounty but due to the fact that he is a smuggler and not a bounty hunter himself, he wants to resolve this peacefully. Greedo on the other hand doesn't care because he knows he will be paid anyway. For all you people who say "where is the logic in that" just think, why would the Empire want Han alive? There would be no point whatsoever in keeping Han alive, so whether Greedo shot him or not they would still get rid of the smuggler.

Greedo didn't want Han dead because Greedo wasn't working for the Empire, he was working for Jabba the Hutt who quite clearly wants Solo alive. Boba Fett mentions this in Empires. "He's no good to me dead."

To be honest I used to care about this but don't any more.

George Lucas hasn't made anything I have enjoyed since 1989. I missed the cinema re-release of the original Star Wars so was hugely dissapointed when I bought the DVD box set when it first come out to find Lucas had made changes for the worse (my original VHS being before the dark times). I was glad when they released the original versions (although as an extra) and now I have them George Lucas is not going to get another penny out of me so I can ignore everything he does, unless he releases Willow in 3D, then I might be interested.

Deathlyphil:

Yensei:

GrinningManiac:
Still don't understand the significance of whatsisface shooting first or not. Why does it matter?

Because it turns Solo in to a justified wimp instead of a dangerous outlaw? I guess...

Pretty much. It defines Han's character for the first film. When he shoots first it shows that he is dangerous and unpredictable. Therefore Luke and Obi Wan have chosen the wrong person to protect them. It brings in uncertainty and doubt, and makes his transformation at the end of the film much more important.

I always felt, once I discovered it, that the fact Han shoots first completely changes his character. The noble hero can't shoot first, it doesn't work that way. And from there on everything Han did appeared to have ulterior motives.

Not G. Ivingname:

PaulH:

That is all ^_^

O_O

Me brain no working now.

Basically what he is saying is Han shot first.

Sgt. Sykes:
Hope Lucas doesn't see this, or he'll get ideas.

The sad thing is, it's so true that he would. Though if he does pull this, every Star Wars fan in the world will personally track him down and smack him upside the head.

megalomania:

Grey Carter:
GREEDo Shoots First

No, it was Han!

Read Full Article

You missed a trick with this one:

'Damnit Greedo you're shooting like a Stormtrooper!'

Eitherway, funny stuff!

True, and very good pun, but Stormtroopers do get lucky once in a while. Like on Tantive IV when they stormed the door and wiped out the Rebel guard, or on the Forest Moon of Endor when that one Stromtrooper got Leah in the arm with his blaster.

Generally, their marksmanship training tends to disappear when you can see them, but you have to give them some credit.

Hardcore_gamer:
How? How does Solo not shooting a defenseless alien make him look less dangerous then a Solo that survives a murder attempt?

Simple. Because a Han Solo who survives a murder attempt is acting in self defense. His actions are justifiable to anyone. A Han solo who shoots a defenseless alien first IS a murderer. And he murders so damn casually. He cracks a joke. And no less, murder is his first recourse. You really can't see the difference?

I know, and this one doesn't. If anything, Han shooting Gringo (in both versions) is probably one of the most insignificant moments in the film since it has next to no impact on the story line whatsoever. In neither version of the film does the murder have any real impact on the story, it just sort of happens and then its done. The scenes that truly define the characters are where the heroes/villains do something that heavily impacts the story in some way, and Han shooting Gringo isn't one of them.

Okay dude, first it's Greedo. It's in the thread title for God sakes. Secondly, I said nothing about the "story-line". There's more to a film than the plot. It's a defining moment of characterization that makes Han more dangerous and when Obi-Wan leaves Luke in his care we don't know what's going to happen to Luke.

I don't have to be objective anymore then I want to. I hate the Star Wars fanboys, I make no apologies for it.

That doesn't mean you can't form an opinion independent of what you think of them. It also doesn't mean that complaining about the differences equates to being a fanboy. You yourself offered the anecdote about watching the films to see what had changed, as though you were giving the originals a fair chance. As if to say you're a reasonable guy. Your hatred ensured that the outcome was predetermined. And with statements like "I don't have to be any more objective than I want to." and your judgmental nature on what constitutes a fanboy you're anything but reasonable. Your obstinance is rife with irony, you're as belligerent as the fanboys you hate so much. You've done a fine job of coming off as a dim-witted oaf. At this point you need only use the words "real americans" to make the semblance replete.

MorteSphere:
Greed, you say?

Lucasarts you say?

Preposterous.

Damn it!
Where's a Thumbs-Up Button when you need one :(

Sgt. Sykes:
Hope Lucas doesn't see this, or he'll get ideas.

about time he got some new ones

Well another film remake I will not watch. I'm just done with remakes and rereleases. Each and every one is some jerks attempt to say, "Hey I can do this whole film with better special effects and graphics!".

Yeah just one problem that doesn't make it a better film or story.

Yes Elliot this is what Star wars is.

I guessing Elliot is duct taped to the chair because he told Erin he'd never seen Star Wars. Yeah, what a freak. Also, I love how she's flipping off the screen.

Another funny thing. Joss Whedon stated that he hated that change so much he made sure that Malcolm Reynolds shot an unarmed person four different times in Serenity.

If Greedo shoots first, then everything I know is a lie

MrPatience:
I always felt, once I discovered it, that the fact Han shoots first completely changes his character. The noble hero can't shoot first, it doesn't work that way. And from there on everything Han did appeared to have ulterior motives.

..I don't know.. I thought the opposite. Han is supposed to be a mercenary who really doesn't care about anything except himself - at least now. There could be reasons for that. Such as bad experiences with the Empire, maybe, that's hinted to in Empire Strikes Back. Some life-experiences he didn't care for. The point is that he's a real character, and he's eventually changing into something else - or maybe finding back some wish to fight - because of the ridiculous twins and the rebels.

When they made him shoot later, it just made him seem more passive. As if he just came along for the ride, and just happened to become a rebel. That made me see everything he did afterwards as less than genuine - because he doesn't change as a character. He's just a weasel in a uniform all of a sudden, who comes back to help them out because of a sense of guilt.

Blergh, basically..

Hardcore_gamer:

Deathlyphil:

Yensei:

GrinningManiac:
Still don't understand the significance of whatsisface shooting first or not. Why does it matter?

Because it turns Solo in to a justified wimp instead of a dangerous outlaw? I guess...

Pretty much. It defines Han's character for the first film. When he shoots first it shows that he is dangerous and unpredictable. Therefore Luke and Obi Wan have chosen the wrong person to protect them. It brings in uncertainty and doubt, and makes his transformation at the end of the film much more important.

I don't agree, and to be honest I think most of the complaints about the special edition of Star Wars is just pointless nitpicking and whining.

While Han not shooting first may make him seem slightly less unpredictable it doesn't really do anything to impact is overall character. I saw the special edition first, and then years later decided to check out the originals after hearing the Star Wars fanboys talk about how Lucas "had ruined Star Wars" with his Special edition, only to find myself watching the same movies again only with shitty special effects and some missing scenes.

People are being fooled by nostalgia, or they are just being fanboys. And then of course there are also those who enjoy bashing Lucas whenever they can, so they will bash the special edition as well.

I've always seen the problem as the fact that (sorry in advance for caps) THERE IS NO WAY GREEDO COULD'VE MISSED. Not to mention it makes Han an idiot rather than a nice guy. He'd be dead but for sheer dumb luck. It's not even a convincing change, which means it's a bad one. The addition of Jabba in IV, the extended wampa scene in V, the removal of visual hiccups throughout the special editions, all fine changes that improve the movies. Han shoots first is, however, a notably bad change.

mechanixis:

Hardcore_gamer:

Deathlyphil:

Yensei:

GrinningManiac:
Still don't understand the significance of whatsisface shooting first or not. Why does it matter?

Because it turns Solo in to a justified wimp instead of a dangerous outlaw? I guess...

Pretty much. It defines Han's character for the first film. When he shoots first it shows that he is dangerous and unpredictable. Therefore Luke and Obi Wan have chosen the wrong person to protect them. It brings in uncertainty and doubt, and makes his transformation at the end of the film much more important.

I don't agree, and to be honest I think most of the complaints about the special edition of Star Wars is just pointless nitpicking and whining.

While Han not shooting first may make him seem slightly less unpredictable it doesn't really do anything to impact is overall character. I saw the special edition first, and then years later decided to check out the originals after hearing the Star Wars fanboys talk about how Lucas "had ruined Star Wars" with his Special edition, only to find myself watching the same movies again only with shitty special effects and some missing scenes.

People are being fooled by nostalgia, or they are just being fanboys. And then of course there are also those who enjoy bashing Lucas whenever they can, so they will bash the special edition as well.

Well I think that's just a matter of perspective. If you'd seen the originals first, like the people who take umbrage, you'd probably prefer them.

But honestly, the special editions have some truly horrendous additions in them that clearly demonstrate Lucas was going off the deep end.

For example, he felt this little gem was missing from the original and demanded insertion.

I think your little gem killed star wars for me...

FaceFaceFace:

Hardcore_gamer:

Deathlyphil:

Yensei:

GrinningManiac:
Still don't understand the significance of whatsisface shooting first or not. Why does it matter?

Because it turns Solo in to a justified wimp instead of a dangerous outlaw? I guess...

Pretty much. It defines Han's character for the first film. When he shoots first it shows that he is dangerous and unpredictable. Therefore Luke and Obi Wan have chosen the wrong person to protect them. It brings in uncertainty and doubt, and makes his transformation at the end of the film much more important.

I don't agree, and to be honest I think most of the complaints about the special edition of Star Wars is just pointless nitpicking and whining.

While Han not shooting first may make him seem slightly less unpredictable it doesn't really do anything to impact is overall character. I saw the special edition first, and then years later decided to check out the originals after hearing the Star Wars fanboys talk about how Lucas "had ruined Star Wars" with his Special edition, only to find myself watching the same movies again only with shitty special effects and some missing scenes.

People are being fooled by nostalgia, or they are just being fanboys. And then of course there are also those who enjoy bashing Lucas whenever they can, so they will bash the special edition as well.

I've always seen the problem as the fact that (sorry in advance for caps) THERE IS NO WAY GREEDO COULD'VE MISSED. Not to mention it makes Han an idiot rather than a nice guy. He'd be dead but for sheer dumb luck. It's not even a convincing change, which means it's a bad one. The addition of Jabba in IV, the extended wampa scene in V, the removal of visual hiccups throughout the special editions, all fine changes that improve the movies. Han shoots first is, however, a notably bad change.

Well I never said it was a "great" change per see, I just don't think the changes made in the special additions were so horrible that they completely ruined the movies which appears to be what the whining Star Wars fanboys who hate the SE's claim.

ffxfriek:

mechanixis:

Well I think that's just a matter of perspective. If you'd seen the originals first, like the people who take umbrage, you'd probably prefer them.

But honestly, the special editions have some truly horrendous additions in them that clearly demonstrate Lucas was going off the deep end.

For example, he felt this little gem was missing from the original and demanded insertion.

I think your little gem killed star wars for me...

Why? How can a 1-2 min music scene in a otherwise great movie that's over 2 hours long "kill Star Wars"?

This is the kind of moaning I am talking about.

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