More on Halo: Reach

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Shihan2:

Hamster at Dawn:

Shihan2:
It would've been a lot better if they'd gone with ODST's

You know that they already did that in the game Halo 3: ODST? I mean I agree with you mostly but you can't complain that they haven't done a game that isn't about Spartans when they made a whole campaign specifically about ODST's.

I know this. I enjoyed it until I finished the game in 5 hours. I'm saying they should've gone back to that and made the single player longer.

Well I think that's more or less what they were trying to do with Reach. The characters in Reach are Spartans but they're early Spartans that Bungie tried to give some more character to. I would say that Reach is like a "Best of" compilation of the Halo games where Bungie have taken the better things from each game and tried to recreate them. They did a good job in my opinion but nothing's ever as good the second time round.

Chappy:
Why are so many people complaining about Yahtzee not liking to play online multiplayer?

Because it would be like if I came along and said I didn't like a JRPG because the roleplaying elements are shit. Yes, the game might have other good stuff, but the core of an RPG is that you get to pick dialogue options and affect the game's plot, and if that stuff is absent and I'm looking for an RPG then clearly the game is shit.

Likewise, if someone comes to play a shooter with a good singleplayer experience (though seeing as Yahtzee enjoyed HL2 I think his standards are remarkably low) and all it has is multiplayer, then clearly it's not very good by their criteria.

It's true, Reach wasn't the best Halo game, and it didn't do a lot to explain...well...anything.

If anyone already explained this, sorry I didn't feel like going through five pages of fan boy bashing.

There are Spartan IIs and Spartan IIIs. Dr. Hasley, the one Jorge calls Ma'am, is the person who made the first set of spartans and the spartan IIs. She kidnapped around 77 six year old children (the brightest and strongest) and had them go through training and bio-enhancemnts. So she's known them basically all their lives, hence why they like her so much. The rest of the team were made by the ONI (government)so there is nothing else to say there.

On Yahtzee saying that even though they weigh a ton they float around, its because they are super strong, I mean chief could run around as fast as a cheetah. What I do find funny though is how the Pelicans and other vehicles could support six spartans. But...yeah w/e.

Yahtzee you were nitpicking in your game review, your first complaint was that they didn't fall off the air ships when they took off? Oh and it would have been better if everything stayed in first person, and none of the characters had any real personality. Even with all the flaws I still liked the game and I will always be a fanboy.

I agree completely with yahtzee that games should stand on their single player, as it's a true test of a developers ability to design the environment and AI. To rely on the multi-player side of things is to rely on players finding the right balance between themselves and disown any need for the developer to balance the game - let's just switch god-mode on and have done with it, if we don't care about game balancing.

A side issue of the current trend for cover based shooters is that it has redeuced AI to the level of 'where is cover -> there is cover -> head there' and each firefight feeling like it's been copy and pasted from the last.

However, where I completely disagree with yahtzee is that I think regenerating health (though stupid from a plot point of view) gives games a greater sense of freedom - rather than constantly searching for health packs and quicksaving afterwards. Admit it to yourself PC gamers, we all do it!

ZahrDalsk:

Sennz0r:

I noticed that too, but what was Jorge's comment on "been hers half my life" about then? That would certainly imply she was his mother, or at least the person who looked after him half his life.

Interesting though, you think the pronunciation was off, while I think the subtitles are wrong :p

As a Spartan-II, Jorge was kidnapped at a young age and replaced with a flash-grown clone. He would not know his mother and it definitely wouldn't be Dr. Halsey. Of course, this is backstory, so for people who're just into run'n'gun and don't enjoy reading (like you, or Yahtzee) it's certainly wasted.

And yes, their training regimens are remarkably like suicide bombers. Both Spartan-IIs and Spartan-IIIs are fully prepared to die for their cause.

Ok now you're just being insulting. Just because I never got around to reading a Halo novel doesn't mean I don't enjoy reading.
I never felt the need to read any of it because I don't play Halo for the story. The in-game story lines are not that good, so when I have time to read a book I make sure the story appeals to me enough so I'm prepared to set aside a few hours to read it.

I like the Campaign of Halo: Reach. It's fun, the story makes sense and it ties in very nicely with what I already know of the goings on with Master Chief and Cortana. I also appreciate Bungie's effort to reward their more dedicated fans with references to the backstory of the Halo universe, and it might even get people who play Halo just for the fun of it more interested in the backstory. I probably won't be reading any of the novels though. Like I said I feel there are more interesting books out there.

That doesn't mean I appreciate being called a person who's only interested in run 'n gun and who doesn't enjoy reading.
Really? Just because I don't read those particular novels? Nice assumption.

Sennz0r:

Ok now you're just being insulting. Just because I never got around to reading a Halo novel doesn't mean I don't enjoy reading.

No, you just come across as that kind of person.

Plus, these are the Escapist forums - I occasionally come here for the same reasons I occasionally turn on my mic and talk to the XBL players.

Still not mention of Forge or Firefight?

Tsk...

ZahrDalsk:

Sennz0r:

Ok now you're just being insulting. Just because I never got around to reading a Halo novel doesn't mean I don't enjoy reading.

No, you just come across as that kind of person.

Plus, these are the Escapist forums - I occasionally come here for the same reasons I occasionally turn on my mic and talk to the XBL players.

So because I made an assumption from a cutscene (which, mind you, was half right: I said she either was Jorge's mother or the person who looked after him half his life), you think I come across as a person who doesn't enjoy reading?

I can only assume that reason is to talk shit to people, because that's the kind of person you come across as right now.

spartan1077:
On the contrary my shirt makes me look not fat. I don't really care one way or another what ZP says. I do follow his reviews and the slightest bit of positive means the game is good.

Lol denying much? I mean having the slighest bit of positive and thinking the game is good is like getting your name right in a test and thinking you got a 100%... or something...

Sneaklemming:
I dont care for halo, but I do care about multiplayer. Most fps games released these days use their singleplayer as a kind of tour of the environments, weapons and mechanics. Notable exceptions exist, but for the most part multiplayer games are the core of gaming today.

wait, are you saying thats a good thing? because thats exactly the reason i dont buy many current gen games. because i play a game for the single player (the part that is supposed to be the meat and potatoes of the game) and only play multiplayer in very short doses

ZahrDalsk:

Sennz0r:

So because I made an assumption from a cutscene (which, mind you, was half right: I said she either was Jorge's mother or the person who looked after him half his life), you think I come across as a person who doesn't enjoy reading?

I can only assume that reason is to talk shit to people, because that's the kind of person you come across as right now.

To see easily-angered kiddies get mad. And look - it worked!

That's right completely ignore the question and continue insulting me.
It's my fault for descending to the level of insults, but you could at least be reasonable and explain yourself like I have. And I mean really explain yourself. Not saying you come here for the same reason to turn on your mic on XBL.
If you can't do that, have fun with the rest of your trolling.

EDIT: Ah well it's my fault for feeding trolls. Should've known better, but they wear their disguises so well :)

ZahrDalsk:

Chappy:
Why are so many people complaining about Yahtzee not liking to play online multiplayer?

Because it would be like if I came along and said I didn't like a JRPG because the roleplaying elements are shit. Yes, the game might have other good stuff, but the core of an RPG is that you get to pick dialogue options and affect the game's plot, and if that stuff is absent and I'm looking for an RPG then clearly the game is shit.

Likewise, if someone comes to play a shooter with a good singleplayer experience (though seeing as Yahtzee enjoyed HL2 I think his standards are remarkably low) and all it has is multiplayer, then clearly it's not very good by their criteria.

its interesting, the only people i know who hate half-life 2 are halo fanboys.

but anyway, keep in mind, yahtzee gives OPINIONS, not reviews. if he reviews a popular jrpg but hates elements of jrpgs, then he damn well better pan the game (and he has). if he plays a shooter with a shitty single player mode, and only plays the single player because he doesnt enjoy multiplayer, then its the designers fault for making such a flimsy single player experience. i think his point is that current gen games should be making a more rounded gaming experience. im sick to death of single player campaigns that i can finish in an afternoon

I was usually the ball and chain he mentioned at the beginning of the article, but this had less to do with the fact that my little brother (the only person around to actually play games like Halo with) was better than me (although he certainly was, since he gave enough of a shit to be), and more to do with the fact that occasionally I like to stop and goof around sometimes when I'm playing video games. He usually threatened to teamkill me when I tried to do this in multiplayer. This ended up biting him in the ass when I stopped playing with him altogether, even when he started promising he wouldn't teamkill me for wanting to go look at that pretty thing over there.

Misho-:

spartan1077:
On the contrary my shirt makes me look not fat. I don't really care one way or another what ZP says. I do follow his reviews and the slightest bit of positive means the game is good.

Lol denying much? I mean having the slighest bit of positive and thinking the game is good is like getting your name right in a test and thinking you got a 100%... or something...

FIrst off- welcome to the escapist

Secondly- no. I direcct more attention to education than to videogames. If it looks fun Ill try it out. I can't have fun on a test or try it out. Reviews are important to not waste money but shouldn't be used as the only opinion.

i thought this article was much better than his actual video (not that the video wasnt funny too)

00slash00:

Sneaklemming:
I dont care for halo, but I do care about multiplayer. Most fps games released these days use their singleplayer as a kind of tour of the environments, weapons and mechanics. Notable exceptions exist, but for the most part multiplayer games are the core of gaming today.

wait, are you saying thats a good thing? because thats exactly the reason i dont buy many current gen games. because i play a game for the single player (the part that is supposed to be the meat and potatoes of the game) and only play multiplayer in very short doses

Its simply personal preference.

Of course you don't like Halo Reach. You're a brit, you don't like anything. My british girlfriend has taught me that about brits through the last 4 years.

Although i agree Halo is crap. It's been crap ever since bungie sold their soul to Microsoft. I actually wanna do a red alert intro and kill the guy who thought x box was such a great idea.

I bought an Xbox 360 on impulse presummer, and Halo ODST came with it along with some other shit games. I finally started playing on it after my computer and ps3 died at the same time. But a couple of days after i got the RROD problem. Although it was kinda a relief. ODST felt like Shogo for some reason, and that is pretty outdated. Nostalgia in all the wrong ways

And all my t-shirts make me look fat, cause i am fat. But i got a gf though, i don't need to be fit

Toeys:
Of course you don't like Halo Reach. You're a brit, you don't like anything. My british girlfriend has taught me that about brits through the last 4 years.

Although i agree Halo is crap. It's been crap ever since bungie sold their soul to Microsoft. I actually wanna do a red alert intro and kill the guy who thought x box was such a great idea.

I have to disagree, I'm a brit and I actually do like cake and chocolate but that is all.

I thought Bungie sold their soul to Activision not Microsoft? and whats wrong with the Xbox hm? :P

If I'm not misunderstanding here, he means that one of the players will be flung around as a weapon. used as a ball on a chain. :/

Don't blaim the shirt! It's all me!

Sir John the Net Knight:
Yahtzee is just so tired and predictable. I'm sick of hearing him blather on about how multiplayer doesn't matter. It sure as hell seems to matter to a lot of other people.

I've grown so tone deaf to Yahtzee's profanity-laced ramblings that they start to sound something like...

I agree a bit with you, but I also think hes right, I ve always liked single player games better than multiplayer ones. Its all about if you want a decent story or not, i sure as hell liked to play call of duty on the net, will I remember call of duty as i will remember thief or system shock 2?

Okay. I have played multiplayer games with friends, really, REALLY shitty multiplayer games with friends, and always had an amazingly good time, because I was dicking around playing a shitty ps2 game with my mates. I have also played random online games of Call of Duty, and HATED it, because it just wasn't fun for me at all. I wasn't part of a community, and really I was playing online multiplayer in the worst possible way.

That, as far as I can tell, is why Yahtzee doesn't review multiplaer modes- because the gaming experience is suddenly ENTIRELY dependent on who you're playing with. You could be playing some golden masterpiece of fps history, but if you're playing capture the flag with a bunch of bunnyhopping braIn-dead fuckwads, odds are you're still going to put down the controller and go have a nice game of mah-jong instead. And on the other extreme, I've probably wasted more hours of my life than I care to recall playing four-player Snake on one keyboard.

I mean, that's just my opinion. Maybe a LAN killed his father or something.

I largely agree with Yahtzee about all his criticisms of the game but despite all that I still love to play it with my friends and have a good time and that's the most important gaming experience to have.. In the end the game can be a re-hash of the same formula, with little change etc etc but it doesn't detract from it's fun factor if you enjoyed it already.

spartan1077:

Misho-:

spartan1077:
On the contrary my shirt makes me look not fat. I don't really care one way or another what ZP says. I do follow his reviews and the slightest bit of positive means the game is good.

Lol denying much? I mean having the slighest bit of positive and thinking the game is good is like getting your name right in a test and thinking you got a 100%... or something...

FIrst off- welcome to the escapist

Secondly- no. I direcct more attention to education than to videogames. If it looks fun Ill try it out. I can't have fun on a test or try it out. Reviews are important to not waste money but shouldn't be used as the only opinion.

Thanks for the Welcome :D I've been browsing this site since early 2008 but just recently created an account to get to do the quizzes :)
And second yeah I agree with you now int he sense that reviews shouldn't be considered as an only option but still... A game isn't good because it just got 1 thing right or if the reviewer says he liked the Colors or something...

But I guess in HALO's case it really depends... If you got it then you are probably going to try and like it no matter what anyone says and I think that's ok.

ianrocks6495:
You shouldn't judge Reach solely on its single player just like you shouldn't judge Bioshock 2 solely on its multiplayer.

Bioshock 2 only had multiplayer going for it...they should have just released the multiplayer as DLC for Bioshock and made Infinite a little faster. The story was essentially a less-difficult rehash of System Shock 2 with Sofia Lamb taking the place of The Many. Oh, and adding a little girl for pathos.

Misho-:

spartan1077:

Misho-:

spartan1077:
On the contrary my shirt makes me look not fat. I don't really care one way or another what ZP says. I do follow his reviews and the slightest bit of positive means the game is good.

Lol denying much? I mean having the slighest bit of positive and thinking the game is good is like getting your name right in a test and thinking you got a 100%... or something...

FIrst off- welcome to the escapist

Secondly- no. I direcct more attention to education than to videogames. If it looks fun Ill try it out. I can't have fun on a test or try it out. Reviews are important to not waste money but shouldn't be used as the only opinion.

Thanks for the Welcome :D I've been browsing this site since early 2008 but just recently created an account to get to do the quizzes :)
And second yeah I agree with you now int he sense that reviews shouldn't be considered as an only option but still... A game isn't good because it just got 1 thing right or if the reviewer says he liked the Colors or something...

But I guess in HALO's case it really depends... If you got it then you are probably going to try and like it no matter what anyone says and I think that's ok.

If I spent money on it, I play that many hours/dollar. So $16? 16 hours. and I try to like it with all my might.

Technically, Spartan III's are suicide bombers. It was the entire reason they were created, to be a more expendable version of the regular Spartans. Sucks to be them, I guess.

I couldn't agree more with Yahtzee about the Halo Reach storyline. The story was completely atrocious. There was no character development so you didn't care when any of them died, and there was very little explanation for what you were doing. It's obvious that the game was built for multiplayer and the single player was tacked on as an afterthought. Furthermore, they must have felt the need to dumb it down so the five to seven year old children that make up half of Bungie's consumer-base could follow the plot. Or rather, they eliminated the plot and reduced the single player to "go here, kill aliens, blow that thing up, go there, kill aliens, blow that other thing up." Not going to win an Oscar for best picture, that's for damn sure.

I say this as a Halo 'fan'. By which I mean I am willing to shell out $60 for hundreds, if not thousands of hours of multiplayer. I take this to be a good investment. But I also enjoy good stories from games. With the cast line up they have for Fable 3, I'm hoping they'll have the decency to just make it a full fledged adventure game with a great storyline, rather than just failing miserably at trying to make it into an RPG. (It isn't an RPG if after ten hours everyone's character looks and plays exactly the same except for their clothes.)

Yahtzee apparently shells out $60 (or whatever the Australian equivalent is) to play a story for ten hours.

And your complaint is REPETITION? WHAT? You do know they are called 'Video GAMES', not 'interactive story-majigs'. A Game is something that is, by its nature, repetitive and objective based. There is no important back-story to why the New York Giants play the Philadelphia Eagles. Its the same game, with the same rules, on the same field, over and over and over again. It is the exact same principle that motivates people to play multiplayer online. How could you not get that? The thing that gets repetitive is the STORY AFTER YOU'VE BEATEN IT A SINGLE TIME. That's why I RENT THE GAMES I PLAY FOR STORY AND BUY THE MULTIPLAYER CENTERED GAMES.

If your excuse is that you only care about plot, fine. More power to you. I like a good story to and I'll come to you for your opinion because I generally find that I have agreed with it in the past. But as a VIDEO GAME critic you should at least understand what GAMES ARE and why people play them. Aside from that, keep up the good work.

GeneticallyModifiedDucks:
Predictable responses, but I'm not sure why people got the wrong impression. (OK I admit, I was a bit baffled by his Haze review initially, but whatever). But possibly the biggest revelation today, is that he liked Metal Gear Solid 3, so far as to say it's one of the best in the series. And I couldn't agree more.

EP covered that even. People live in a binary state of mind. Yes or no, agree or disagree, coke or pepsi. There are people who exist in a world of nuance and shades of gray, and they're the minority.

So by not hating it, Yahtzee was (To them) endorsing it, saying he liked it. To a lot of people, if you disagree you take the polar opposite view by default. Though it could be more Yahtzee's tendency to slam everything in ZP. By extension, people might take his lack of vitriol as approval. I'm hoping it's more that, but we live in a binary world, so I bet it's more a "tick yes or no" deal.

It seems Bungie doesn't have the slightest clue on how a prequel is supposed to work. A prequel is supposed to take place before all the other entires in your series that means, at the very least, all the the characters don't know about anything the happened in the other entries in your series because, you know, it hasn't happened yet!!!
Of course I'm fundamentally against the very principle of prequels.

Cowabungaa:

But as for competitive multiplayer, I'm sorry, I just don't see the appeal of playing the same maps over and over again to find out which one out of you is the best at whatever it is you're doing. That's not why I'm into gaming. Call me antisocial.

Sure, but you can't blame the game for that. Different games cater to different tastes.

The fact that one is not into competitive multiplayer gaming doesn't make games that focus on it bad, it just makes them games that don't belong in ones tastes. The game can still function properly, have solid and well-balanced gameplay, that sort of thing. I hate FIFA games, just go outside and play football yourself you lazy bum, but I can't call them bad games just for that.

I wouldn't use MMO's as examples either, I'd pick games like Unreal Tournament, Quake, Team Fortress 2 and most fighting games.

You raise a valid argument - but remember that EVERYONE can play Single Player because everyone is always themselves all the time. Not everyone has an internet connection, or money for a subscription, or friends or a decent phone line. Thus it is crucial for a game to be able to stand up on Single Player only, simply because there are plenty of people who will never see a multiplayer game segment, let alone play it regularly.

For those of you saying that Yahtzee doesn't pay attention to multiplayer because he doesn't like it, that's not true. It's because some people may not have internet and therefore can't access the multiplayer, while if you own the game you have single player no matter what.

I'm just glad I'm not the only person who deosn't care about multiplayer. Great article.

Yahtzee's job is to be funny, and bashing stuff is funny. I personally don't take any of his reviews seriously.

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