Zero Punctuation: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow

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LoS has a level called "Underground Caves". Aren't they all, really?

IMightBeWyatt:
LoS has a level called "Underground Caves". Aren't they all, really?

? Like the top of the Castle? Or the mountain fortress Tower? Or the Starting Village??? It must be a pretty big underground place... And the sun must be really powerful to get all the way down there when it does.

Lol I just read the post with much more attention... Damn my piled on to-do-work!
Yeah well all Caves are Underground but Underground Caves has a ring to it :)

Actually, Curse of Darkness for PS2 was probably my favourite Castlevania, just ahead of Aria of Sorrow. :|

Lament of Innocence really wasn't /that/ bad either. It wasn't great but it was still enjoyable.

Why would you shrug off every 3D Castlevania just because 64 and... Whatever the sequel to that was called, sucked?

The Cake is a Lie is still a great joke to the many people who have heard of Portal but never played or finished it and found that... Big-Time Spoilers Here... there was a cake. One wonders what G and C were going to do with it being that neither has a mouth.

There, now can we stop referencing it everywhere?

rabidkanid:

Lordofthesuplex:

I'm sure he ment Metroid Prime 2, but knowing Yahtzee he probably never played those games and just is going on hearsay.

Considering that Prime 3 is a, for a lack of a better word, prime example as to why his "motion controls are unimmersive" bullshit, yeah I doubt he played the sequels as well.

I still dont get why he always brings up super paper mario and metroid prime 3 when mentioning light/dark systems. the phazon system in prime 3 was used as a risky and temporary offensive boost and super paper mario's system merely involved the changes from 2d to 3d levels.

Yeah that always confused me as well. I guess switching from 2D to 3D counts as dual world gameplay in Yahtzee's little world.

That was an image of Metroid Prime 2, not 3! Metroid Prime 2 had a Light and Dark beam and had a Light world and Dark world. The Light Dark thing is, in my opinion, a very lazy attempt at stretching out the game since after a bit there is really no story development for the vast bulk of the game till the end after beating the final boss.

I don't really know what your talking about with Super Paper Mario having a light/dark system because it doesn't. The world flipping to the side doesn't count as one either. It's just a different perspective used to get past areas and solve puzzles. The Light/Dark world from the game from what I remember would probably have to do with the normal world and the world that those pixel creatures come from and having to switch between them at times.

So, long story short, based on your complaints about Yahtzee's opinions about games you think he's never played, I would doubt that you or the people you quoted every actually played the games either since 1. you confused Metroid Prime 2 for 3 when that's a 'GAMECUBE' game case and 3 is for Wii, and 2. you again confused the Normal/Pixel world with the change viewpoint gameplay aspect. Maybe you should actually bother looking up information on the games you think Yahtzee doesn't know anything about before you go around proclaiming knowledge about those same games when you clearly don't know nothing about them to begin with.

Wow dude okay i admit that i confused 2 games of the same series (and i've played through all metroid games apart from metroid 2). if you had bothered reading the entirety of my original comment you would have seen that my point was WHY super paper mario was included among the others featuring light/dark systems when it's 2D/3D system IS NOT light/dark gameplay aspect. the town of Flopside is just a backwards version of Flipside so i doubt that counts. Seriously if you're gonna go on a full blown rant at least read what you're replying to.

mr_rubino:
The Cake is a Lie is still a great joke to the many people who have heard of Portal but never played or finished it and found that... Big-Time Spoilers Here... there was a cake. One wonders what G and C were going to do with it being that neither has a mouth.

There, now can we stop referencing it everywhere?

You could set the example, you know. =P

joemegson94:
Left 4 Dead 2 has a Portal reference and that game's awesome.

Yes, but that was made by Valve, so..yeah. It's ok if a company makes a reference to one of their other games. Sometimes. But Valve can get away with it.

I've played all 3 GBA and all 3 DS Castlevanias and for me all of them have been fantastic entries in the series.

Why is their a reluctance to make a super high res 2-D equivalent on home consoles? At best the 3D Castlevanias have been serviceable, but none of them approach Super Castlevania IV or Symphony of the Night.

CK76:
I've played all 3 GBA and all 3 DS Castlevanias and for me all of them have been fantastic entries in the series.

Why is their a reluctance to make a super high res 2-D equivalent on home consoles? At best the 3D Castlevanias have been serviceable, but none of them approach Super Castlevania IV or Symphony of the Night.

Variety is the spice of life my friend. Do you only want 2D castlevanias in lieu of 3D versions when they are in the habit of making both types. Unless we're talking DLC content, it's not practical to make a 2D platiformer for the PS3/360, since barely anyone will pay for a $60 modern version of the SotN model for PS3/360. Keep in mind, most of the mainstream gaming audience for those two consoles judge by appearance and presentation first and gameplay second with the inverse being true for portables.

As for everyone else in this thread. Lords of Shadow doesn't ripoff other franchises, it's clearly a homage to them. Also the GoW ripoff comments are pretty ignorant since GoW was heavily inspired by Castlevania: Lament of Innocence. That is the equivalent of saying Zelda: Twilight Princess is a ripoff of Okami just because both have wolves and Okami came out first but blatantly ignoring that Okami was heavily inspired by Zelda Ocarina of Time.

And there's the ad for the game right next to the video. Effing lol. I have to say I'm kind of surprised to hear Yahtzee put Aria of Sorrow on the same pedestal as Symphony of the Night. I mean, I definitely think it was a hell (no pun intended) of a great game, but I thought he would think the story was kind of... overly JRPG-ish.
And yeah, I'd be interested to see a really well executed Metroidvania style 3D action-platformer... but I don't think this is that game.
Also: My LittleBigPlanet fanboyism ensured I instantly spotted the sackboy in his Colossus outfit when he popped up. =D

guess what, Yahtzee ...Fable III has a Portal reference!!!

and it's probably worse...have a field day with that one (if you can find it)

Silly reply failed on me to quote, ignore this post

Turbo_ski:

CK76:
I've played all 3 GBA and all 3 DS Castlevanias and for me all of them have been fantastic entries in the series.

Why is their a reluctance to make a super high res 2-D equivalent on home consoles? At best the 3D Castlevanias have been serviceable, but none of them approach Super Castlevania IV or Symphony of the Night.

Variety is the spice of life my friend. Do you only want 2D castlevanias in lieu of 3D versions when they are in the habit of making both types. Unless we're talking DLC content, it's not practical to make a 2D platiformer for the PS3/360, since barely anyone will pay for a $60 modern version of the SotN model for PS3/360. Keep in mind, most of the mainstream gaming audience for those two consoles judge by appearance and presentation first and gameplay second with the inverse being true for portables.

I don't think Lord of Shadows really added variety to video gaming. What I (admittedly selfishly) want is the next step in the Castlevania series I love that since the PS1 era has been a (fantastic) side step for a decade. I'm not bothered by Lord of Shadows, I just also want a beautiful 2D entry (think Blazblue). I'd settle for a 20 dollar PSN version game like Shank at this point.

Sorry, but I liked the game. If was fun and... seriously, which games does not copy something from a different game? If this would be bad, we would only have... 10 games maybe?

To say that "something is like from a different game" is no agrument that the game is bad.

Man i cannot wait for the ZP in 2 weeks time. why you ask?
1)Star Wars The Force Unleashed 2 imo is heading straight for a "like God of War But..." and
2)Fable 3 has a....wait for it...wait for it... portal reference.
it's gonna be epic if he brings up both things in the video. lol.

sageoftruth:

Ragsnstitches:

ninjaman87:
dude what the fuck is you main problem cant you just have fun when playing games wich are the main poitn and after all the piece fucking garbitch of shadow of colossus what nothing more than a patetic waste of time and speace it had nothing interesting to do and you only fight so little this game had more of a better story.

You don't know how this works do you?

Oh, he does all right. He's just trolling (Note the misspellings, poor grammar, poor punctuation, gratuitous use of the F word, and complete absense of punctuation until the end of the sentence). It portrays him as dumb, ignorant, and outspoken, thus inspiring others to argue against him.

I think you give internet retards far too much credit. I know some tolls do this, but by and large the average low witted interwebz dweller type a lot like this.

Although, "garbitch" makes me think otherwise.

Has anyone mentioned Yahtzee's quote at the very end of the credits? Because it was brilliant and clever, if not particularly funny. Thumbs up!

One of the best ZPs.

My real name is Gabriel.

It felt like Yahtzee was insulting me for the whole video...

I am sad.

Anyway. Never played a Castlevania game and this hasn't exactly spurred me on to start trying, though if the 2D ones are good I'll give them a whirl.

joemegson94:
Left 4 Dead 2 has a Portal reference and that game's awesome.

Same creator of a game has more of a right to do something like that, don't you think?

OT: I tip my hat to you Yahtzee, your new spark has burned thousands of small children. =P

FieryTrainwreck:

I played every DMC. I played most every major action game since SNES. Even hit some of the late NES offerings. Kind of rules me out as a kiddo, huh?

Nope.

God of War was a watershed moment for the genre. Pretending otherwise is incredibly naive.

I never said that it wasn't. What I did say is that it's not entirely original. It's not. Is it a good game? Yes. Heck, it's an amazing game. One of my faves. However, I'm not going to sit here and pretend that it's the first game to play like it did, face down mythological beasts, or use a whip based weapon.

Pretending like it was the first at anything is what's incredibly naive.

When you put together an experience that feels so polished, fluid, and natural, you deservedly take the reigns of the genre.

According to what? Has Planescape Torment taken the reigns of the RPG genre? No. Yet it's arguably the best western RPG ever created. The same can be said of System Shock 2 for the FPS, Shadow of the Colossus for the Action/Adventure, Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time for the platformer, etc.

God of War took the reigns due to popularity, in the same way that Halo took the reigns of the FPS Genre. Not that the two are comparable in quality, but when there's an incredibly popular example of a genre, it's what's primarily used. Don't pretend otherwise.

It makes all the sense in the world to compare third person action games to God of War until something bests God of War.

"Bests" is a subjective term. I'm obviously talking to a fanboy, so I know nothing will probably ever "best" the God of War franchise, despite how stale it became. In fact, the second and third games are pointless. They're comparable to Bioshock 2.

When such a game contains QTEs, highly similar weaponry, and a cast of enemies pulled from history/mythology, said game will be rightfully mocked as a copycat - unless it had somehow done it all better than GoW. LoS did not.

Here's the thing: you first go from saying that God of War set the standard, to God of War was the first to do what it did. Make up your mind. Your entire "argument" has been inconsistent from the first moment.

With that being said, Lords of Shadow isn't original either. On that note, neither are most games that come out these days. However, trying to accuse a game from a franchise that essentially started the whole process of the action/platformer is a little silly. It's what the game does with those elements that counts, and Lords of Shadow provides a fun experience. It's a game series that went from being Metroid for far too long, and decided to reboot, and start again as a linear action/platformer.

Does it use God of War as a reference point? Sure. Is it exactly the same? No. Platforming is quite a bit more fluid, combat has more depth, and the magic is actually useful, rather than just a pretty option.

Defending the game's "originality" because its ancient 2D predecessors, which play nothing like modern action games, had similar elements seems bizarre and pointless.

Here we go again. I didn't claim that Lords of Shadow was original, and you really don't have any proof of that. You were the one who claimed that God of War was an original title, so please don't project your poor reasoning on to me.

With that said, the point is that pulling the "Simpsons did it" crap is idiotic. In fact, I'll reference that episode of South Park. Do you remember what Chef said at the end? "The Simpsons took the idea from a Twilight Zone episode." Everything can be traced back somewhere, so trying to point the finger and say "CLONE!" is what's pointless. One could say that it's a logical fallacy.

Feel free to like LoS. A bunch of people do. Doesn't mean it's not a gigantic GoW ripoff.

Kid, play the game. Don't be Croshaw's echo. Make up your own mind about things, rather than just being a tool who tries to justify someone else's screw up. It's obvious that Yahtzee is a huge God of War mark, and isn't happy that Castlevania isn't Metroidvania anymore. Same reason he wasn't happy that Shattered Dimensions didn't have a heavy web-swinging element. Even Crowshaw has his fanboy tendencies.

Start thinking for yourself. The world becomes a much cooler place to live. However, to put the final nail in your coffin, let me just say this:

Don't feel bad about liking God of War. Doesn't mean it's not a gigantic Devil May Cry ripoff.

Don't feel bad about liking Devil May Cry. Doesn't mean it's not a gigantic Castlevania ripoff.

Kamiya started this whole process. His favorite game of all time? Castlevania. You lose. Good day sir.

joemegson94:
Left 4 Dead 2 has a Portal reference and that game's awesome.

Well those games are both from same maker so that is approved anyways.

... And I just might need to play this God of War to see the reference point.

Combat is good story is the same as LOI, level design and camera is worse than LOI,COD and the N64 titles. But all in all this is not a CV game I call it "Iam broddy half bishi war guy on colossi!!11".

I'm so happy that ZP got the halloween ending house! Also, the vid was good as usual, but for the fall season you need to have more shows each week! There are so many games for you to mock, and I just can't wait a whole week between the shows!

QTE boss fights, sheesh, i am awfully glad i can avoid these games:D
i must say, it was a great ZP, after a good while^^

FYI: The Mona Lisa is not in the National Portrait Gallery. NB. Next time you visit the National Portrait Gallery be sure to take afternoon tea in the National Portrait Gallery Restaurant.

Yes... this Video does indeed Deserve the big Mansion on top of the Hill
...even if there are no Devil May Cry references :|

Lol so in the ripoff war/cycle what I understand is the following: God of War ripped off Devil May Cry which in turned ripped off Castlevania which in turned ripped off other games now like God of War?... It's like a human centipede that has come full circle.
*Find my other posts on how I love C:LoS*

Oh and the people that keep saying the cake wasn't a lie, I always thought it was(Not saying you're wrong). Because (SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!) when you finish the sequence trial rooms and hop on the moving platform there's a cake graffiti on the wall... Before you turn the corner and realize you are heading straight for the incinerator...

But... How the people who got inside the walls figure that out? They had to be in the moving platform to begin with and after that what they do? Jump off into the fire, crawl their way back into a hollow wall, cut themselves to have some "ink" and write in the wall that the cake graffiti and promise was a lie?
I believe the joke's not that funny when you think about it like that. Not enough to warrant the absurd life spam it's endured over the years on the internet. But I don't mind it either...

I wonder what would anyone say to a Valve employee from the Portal team that goes into a party where no one knows who he is and makes a cake is a lie joke?

The game isnt that bad though..

Also, I laugh at thee! swapping disks is for 360 users! ps3 gets comfy with its bluray

I also never got the whole "the cake is a lie" joke...specially since when you finish the game you do get cake...

CynicalMarcus:

Don't feel bad about liking God of War. Doesn't mean it's not a gigantic Devil May Cry ripoff.

Don't feel bad about liking Devil May Cry. Doesn't mean it's not a gigantic Castlevania ripoff.

Kamiya started this whole process. His favorite game of all time? Castlevania. You lose. Good day sir.

All I can say to that gigantic reply is...yup.

Castlevania should just sit back down at its desk and learn from the teacher what a good game is supposed to be. I watched the trailer for this long ago, and not having even played God of War before, recognized the similarities instantly. Come on Castlevania, grow up.

FieryTrainwreck:
Ever heard of the girlfriend test?

I've got a semi-gaming literate girlfriend. She plays with me from time to time.

She thought Castlevania was God of War.

Yeah. And my girlfriend commonly mistakes various shooters I play for one another. If you weren't well versed, Rainbow Six: Vegas 2 and Modern Warfare 2 are nigh indistinguishable at a glance, but they are very different games.

I play a LOT of third person action games, so it makes sense that she'd confuse them. But this is the first time she was legitimately mistaking one game for another. "Wait, this isn't God of War? I thought you just unlocked a new character or something? But he still uses whips? And you still have those little mini-games where you press the buttons on screen?"

Heh, that sort of suggests she *isn't* so well versed.... I mean QTEs are all over the place, and not just in action games. And the ones in Castlevania are more different than most. RE5's QTEs have more in common with God of War's than Castlevania's do. Castlevania's are more like the ring system in Lost Odyssey. It's less about finding the right button than it is about hitting a button at the right time, which I tend to prefer. It lets you stay concentrated on the action. There are the button mashing ones, where you need to mash the right button, but those tend to be forgiving. Not saying it isn't a similarity at all, but given the prevalence of QTEs, it's no reason to single out Lords of Shadow.

She didn't mistake Darksiders, Bayonetta, or DMC4 for GoW.

They don't use whips/chains. The combat cross is powerfully evocative of the Blades of Chaos/Athena, I'll admit... but what *should* he use? Belmonts have been using whips and chains since the very first Castlevania.

Anyways, the point of this little aside? If you're capable of distinguishing in such detail the minor (but likely significant, to the hardcore player anyways) differences between the rapid flashing whips of God of War and Lords of Shadow, you're probably too detail-oriented to decide whether or not the games are overly similar. I mean at that point you're pretty much capable of differentiating anything.

I'll grant that there are superficial similarities. I was a bit worried they *would* be too similar, but that worry melted away once I started playing it. YMMV, I suppose.

I think I'm gonna be done here. I feel like I'm arguing with an impassioned minority, which is exactly what you tend to find in ZP threads. I think I'll just go with the following: LoS is not a shot-for-shot remake of GoW. If that's enough for you to dismiss the charges of "GoW clone", by all means, enjoy your game.

Fair enough. It's all opinion anyway. If it's too similar for one player, it's too similar. But I do feel it's a bit unfair to the game. Lots of games out there share superficial similarities. Why is this one singled out? Personally, I think it's because Yahtzee's repetition of "Like God of War, but..." has made it a particularly heinous crime to share anything in common with God of War. Make a shooter with a power armored super soldier, and people won't give you too much of a hard time for ripping off Halo. They may take away originality points, but they won't bust your balls over it too much, particularly if your game is otherwise really good. But, here, at least, if you make an action game with chains and quick time finishers, you're going to get called a God of War clone, regardless of what else your game might be.

Edit: well *you* won't be called a God of War clone, but your game might be :)

You know, with the Portal referance in Fable III, and the track record ZP has with that series, it is going to make a hysterical review.

Never played Castlevania, never want to, but watching this is always good!

Is he aware the "like god of war but" stamp is the reverse of what it should be?

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH he said anus

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