Obsidian Mailbag

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 NEXT
 

Towowo2:
Regardless of platform it seems each version has a wide array of bugs. My personal favorite? The black screen of death. Not sure if it's present on the PC or PS3 versions though.

My favorite bug, that made me have to delete all my saves is when my night vison scope for my varmit rifle turned into the hacking screen, I didn't see anything though its just a big black hacking screen. And at the time (before more bugs came to join the legion of bugs) all I could think of was, "AWWW MAN I PAID 366 caps for this scope and the bugs took it away DX"

And also, Shamus couldn't you have summ-ed all those up at once?? They all seemed to say the same thing, god couldn't your hecklers learn to be more orginal?!?!

I feel bad for you guys. It seems like I'm one of the lucky few wich has a computer that this game actually runs well on.

Amend Shamus AMEND!

mjc0961:
[I'm supposed to say "Okay, I am no longer annoyed that it's not working for me" when people say it worked for them.

But but, my opinion is the only one that matters! I said it's okay, and since the world revolves around me, if you disagree... you gotta be a hater face!*

In all seriousness though, I've only had now 2 crashes in my 13 hours or so of gameplay. Makes me happy, but since this is a obsidian game, I haven't let my guard down. A full save every 15 minutes, and do 3 of those saves at once, in case one of them gets corrupted.

*In case it wasn't obvious enough, I am making a funny. (no offence intended in this sentence)

Furioso:
Nice work Shamus! And although I disagree with your opinions on Fallout 3, I'll defend to the death your right to express them. No opinions on New Vegas though, haven't played it yet.

Just guessing you think that he hates Fallout 3? Not true if you watch Spoiler Warning where he runs through it with friends you find he just has a lot of problems with it and a feeling it never lived up to the Fallout name. In parts he seems to show that infact he does like the game a lot (especially the subways).

EDIT: Just got my first Bug... The Legate got shot and flew up into the air... and never came back...

If there is one fallacious argument that really irks me more than any other, it's the "It works fine for me, so it's obviously perfect" argument. That's like saying "Well, someone rear-ended MY Pinto and it DIDN'T explode, so there can't be anything wrong with the car. Maybe you shouldn't be using aftermarket air freshener."

Exterminas:
I said that the game ran flawlessly at my PC. I wasn't trying to accuse people who claimed the opposite of lying. I was trying to help reflect the game's reality in a more realistic way. Thousands of people bougth the game. Only the ones who expierence bugs, go to forums and complain, which generates a too negative image of the situation of a whole and makes them believe that they will definately expierence a buggy game.
Which they won't.
I haven't.

Nicely said. 20+ hours in and I haven't experienced any bugs either, aside from the save glitch which was far easier to fix then I imagined. Does that make my input any less valid?

if you ask me, solely blaming Obsidian is retarded, after all they don't have as big a dev. team as other companies, they had 2 projects that had to work on at the time, using not only unfamiliar tools but a buggy engine to boot, it's just silly if you ask me to solely blame them

Then why is BioWare able to release stable games, even when dealing with those same publishers that allegedly ruined Obsidian's work? Why do other developers working with (say) Atari not have the same problems that Obsidian did?

When a project is begun the developer agrees to a given timetable and budget. "We'll make X game in Y months using Z dollars." A contract outlines these obligations, and they sign it. Every one of their games has come from a different publisher, for a different franchise, using different tools. The only common element in all of the buggy Obsidian games is Obsidian Entertainment itself. They have failed to deliver a stable game four out of four times now (discounting the expansion packs, which were reportedly good) and so I think it's time the blame fell on the people doing the over-promising and under-delivering.

reputation helps at the bargaining table when negotiating contracts with publishers, bioware has nearly always shitted out gold for people, obsidian's first couple of contracts didn't really get them a good reputation so publishers aren't exactly willing to put the same amount of resources behind obsidian then they would behind bioware (or another dev. of similar caliber)

at any rate, Obsidian is improving it's act so it's not like it's ignoring this problem

GloatingSwine:

Good joke Shamus. Bioware, stable. Pfffffff.....

So true. I love Bioware's games but they always cause me nothing but trouble. Mass Effect has just decided to give up the ghost and crash every five minutes on me making it unplayable (and even when it did there was some really ugly graphical problems with black boxes appearing over barrels and so forth).

Dragon Age leaked memory like a sieve (which they did improve but not until I'd suffered through my first complete playtrhough) and still loves to come up with stupid and incomprehensible bugs (just yesterday I decided to take a second character through Awakening and somehow managed to get ported from the courtyard of the keep onto the top of the tower to start the boss fight- had Oghren and the mage whose name I can't remember appear invisible during the following cutscene and disappear afterwards seeing I'd never had the chance to recruit them- not a major issue only half an hour or so in but annoying nonetheless).

If Bioware is an example of a developer who makes stable games then we as gamers really need to up our expectations- they're still nowhere near as bad as Obsidian, but certainly aren't a company to hold up as a paragon in this area.

You mention Fallout 3, in my experience it was completely functional, on the gameplay side of things. Which is not to say to was the best thing ever, it was just functional. Quests didn't die off randomly and such.

Vestsao:
This only edifies one of the most prominent arguments against PC gaming. The substantial diversification in PC hardware ensures that developers have a difficult time developing games which will adequately run. You'll have a game which has a particular error with one graphics card and runs smooth as butter on another graphics card.

Edifies means informing someone in a sort of 'character-building' or 'moral' way.

Wait here, I'll google for an example...tum te tum...

Here, "Knowledge puffs up but love edifies." from Corinthians.

I couldn't find an irreligious example, it appears it has religious connotations as well

I don't think it fits here. And when one person uses a word wrong it kinda tends to spread, so I tend to pedant about it if I think they won't mind too much.

Hope you don't!

OT: Strange that people leap to the defence of a game like that. Bugs are a major issue. Titan Quest, the PC version of Juiced, really PISSED ME OFF with their constant CTD's. It's not something you can just ignore.

Flamers will be flamers, sad though, you'd think society would grow up........back to Minecraft and calling people inappropriate names =]

Therumancer:
Also one reason why I won't defend them is that the "Gamebryo" engine has been around for three games now. Oblivion, Fallout 3, and New Vegas have all suffered pretty buggy releases, and truthfully by the third game I would have expected a pretty clean game. The only thing I can think of is that Bethesda just handed them the engine and didn't give them any information on how to use it or kill the bugs they found, and that compounded with the fact that Obsidian was building a deeper game which compounded the bugs.

Gamebryo is an off-the-shelf programming engine, not a Bethesda engine... http://www.emergent.net/en/Clients--Titles/

Shamus Young:
I didn't experience any of the "problems" you supposedly had. The game ran great for me!
So... are the rest of us lying? Are these thousands of irritated gamers part of some vast conspiracy to make Obsidian look bad, just because?
As I said last week, PC hardware is a complex business and I'm sympathetic to the effort it takes to get things running on all of those different machines. If you're not one of the affected people, then rejoice and enjoy your game. But if you want me to enjoy the game then you need to mail me your computer, because it doesn't work right on this one.

What exactly doesn't work? xD
The two most prevalent "bugs" on the PC are
1) The FaceGen Software/FaceFX leading to stutters around NPCs and dropping frames like crazy, just putting this file into the main folder should fix that: http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34778
2) Crashes that happen every now and then, usually attributed to the Gamebryo engine screwing up Multithreading of AI components and leading to said crashes, this exact same issue was present in the original Fallout 3 and it should've been Bethesda that fixed it, Obsidian probably didn't do much engine optimization or changes... it requires a lot more time and effort/experience and they had only about a year for the entire game.
This should fix it, also this site has a catalogue of other issues and how to fix them, it should make the game work on about any PC: http://segmentnext.com/2010/10/19/fallout-new-vegas-errors-crashes-freezes-fixes/

15# Fallout New Vegas Freezes and Crashes Fix
Open up the fallout.ini file in

My Documents\My Games\Fallout New Vegas

Find the line:
bUseThreadedAI=0

Change it to:
bUseThreadedAI=1

Add another line after it and insert:
iNumHWThreads=2

This will limit the game to 2 cores and prevent the engine bug from causing the game to freeze.

I personally just find it somewhat unfortunate when actually good games get blamed to hell and back for a few bugs that will mostly either be fixed by a few coming patches or by using Google for a few minutes when the actual content is awesome.
I am a lot more resistant to a game being buggy than to a game being shitty (e.g. Fallout 3 xD), because no amount of polish or patching will make the second better and fix the gameworld, the lifeless characters, boring conversations and over 20+ times recycled maps all having the same "Warehouse#01" and "Subway#02" layout with a few different spawns here and there while the first one will be a shining gem given a bit of time. Just ignore it for 2 months and come back then pretending it has just been released if you aren't resistant to some issues.

Remember what happened to Troika and their Vampire: Bloodlines based on the Source Engine only cause Activision forced them to release early and the press literally ripped it to shreds selling only about 80.000 units and the studio getting closed down? Well the game itself was and still is brilliant and a lot better than most of the stuff getting released out there today.

On the other hand other games (like the original Fallout 3 or Modern Warfare 2 that also had plenty of issues) somehow get on the "hype train" and a carte blanche in that area, not only that but they're apparently also "Games of the Year".

You should also be in a position to know that Quality is often dependent on both time and money/ressources, two things publishers usually don't like to give abundantly.
image
Seeing as New Vegas had only about a year I find it astonishing what Bethesda managed to do in that timeframe, and I don't think there was much time for engine tweaking in there and that should've been done by Bethesda.

"A college freshman playing New Vegas right now would have been thirteen years old when Obsidian released KOTOR II."

Hey, I was 9 when I played it and I knew Obsidian made it. Evidently you're just being biased and your computer is so rubbish you had to skip the splash screens so your computer could run the game!

Vestsao:
This only edifies one of the most prominent arguments against PC gaming. The substantial diversification in PC hardware ensures that developers have a difficult time developing games which will adequately run. You'll have a game which has a particular error with one graphics card and runs smooth as butter on another graphics card.

I've seen just as many complaints about bugs on the consoles too (assuming that's what you're getting at when you say "error" in this instance), and other developers have no trouble getting their games running fine on the very vast majority of machines.

If people stopped buying these unfinished products Obsidian throw out, another developer might get chance and we might get finished games.

Completely agree with you, Shamus. I promised myself after KOTOR 2 i wouldn't buy an obsidian game again.

I would say i feel bad about caving in, but because i live in Europe, and we got New Vegas a good few days (and a patch) later than the US, ive not experienced any of the major bugs. But ive still encountered a good two or three.

Its just a sad fact that there are folks out there today who think you're not allowed to say anything bad about something without "balancing it out". Its complete rubbish from people who are fanboys in all but name in my opinion.

If a car is faulty - you take it back. If a toaster you were sold comes without a basic knob to set the timer, its disgusting manufacturing.

When its a computer game? Oh screw it, we can always patch it later, and we know there are people who'll shout at folks who complain at us screwing them over anyhow.

Obsidian have an awful track record in this area. People need to learn that when you pay for something, you expect it to work. And those that knock you for pointing that out are really asking for standards to get so low that we'll end up cheering game manufacturers for producing games that you cant complete.

Thats why its important to lambast Obsidian for crappy standards.

It's forgivable once,... twice is iffy... But three to four times? They are basically slapping you in the face, laughing, and asking you to pay them each time.

Well... I guess can't love EVERYTHING Shamus writes. :)

mjc0961:

I didn't experience any of the "problems" you supposedly had. The game ran great for me!

So... are the rest of us lying? Are these thousands of irritated gamers part of some vast conspiracy to make Obsidian look bad, just because?

As I said last week, PC hardware is a complex business and I'm sympathetic to the effort it takes to get things running on all of those different machines. If you're not one of the affected people, then rejoice and enjoy your game. But if you want me to enjoy the game then you need to mail me your computer, because it doesn't work right on this one.

I love you right now Shamus. I hate that "it worked fine for me!" crap when you discuss problems with games, as if I'm supposed to say "Okay, I am no longer annoyed that it's not working for me" when people say it worked for them.

While I cannot speak for everyone who might have said something to that effect, I think my own position is entirely easy to understand.

Shamus pointed out that he was annoyed that the game was "broken" for him. Others pointed out that they played the game without experiencing the same thing.

How that implies, even for a moment, that I think Shamus is lying is beyond me. In much the same fashion that my experience does nothing to invalidate Shamus' experience, his own experience does nothing to invalidate mine.

And, yet, when addressing this very common topic, he chooses to assemble a straw man argument? I hardly condone such a thing.

I completely believe that Shamus has had problems. I also believe others have had problems. I would even go so far as to agree that, in many cases, the problems people are having are inexcusable simply because the same problem existed in Fallout 3. For example, why do I have the option to turn off the cinematic death animations if, all that does, is make the game break the moment I use VATS? That's a bug from the first game for god's sake!

But, just because I believe Shamus and even agree with his assertion, doesn't mean my own assertion that I didn't have a problem (until I decided to try turning off the Cinematic camera that is) was invalid. Thousands of people saying they had a problem is no better proof of the existence of a problem than thousands of people saying that they didn't after all.

True, the game is buggy and can be really frustrating, but I just don't get the whole vindictive tone. Why hate Obsidian? At least they're trying to make good, huge games. Even if NV crashed on me, I would still have gotten far more pleasure for much longer with it than with any other game since, well, Fallout 3.

They did release it unfinished, that's a failure, but I must say I don't really mind.

mjc0961:

I didn't experience any of the "problems" you supposedly had. The game ran great for me!

So... are the rest of us lying? Are these thousands of irritated gamers part of some vast conspiracy to make Obsidian look bad, just because?

As I said last week, PC hardware is a complex business and I'm sympathetic to the effort it takes to get things running on all of those different machines. If you're not one of the affected people, then rejoice and enjoy your game. But if you want me to enjoy the game then you need to mail me your computer, because it doesn't work right on this one.

I love you right now Shamus. I hate that "it worked fine for me!" crap when you discuss problems with games, as if I'm supposed to say "Okay, I am no longer annoyed that it's not working for me" when people say it worked for them.

Actually it's more to the point of if it is woking perfectly for other people, it must be hard to patch the bugs that only some people have. I'm not very good with computers, but isn't one of the steps trying to replicate the bug to see how to fix it? If it's only happening to some, wouldn't it be harder to fix?

CharlesA:
True, the game is buggy and can be really frustrating, but I just don't get the whole vindictive tone. Why hate Obsidian? At least they're trying to make good, huge games. Even if NV crashed on me, I would still have gotten far more pleasure for much longer with it than with any other game since, well, Fallout 3.

They did release it unfinished, that's a failure, but I must say I don't really mind.

Exactly. IF every game has to be polished to a mirror shine, all games will be Realistic Man Shooters, and frankly we don't want that. Of course, there's the whole Obsidian hatedom which means that they get accused of stuff Bethesda got away with in the past (the vast majority of the bugs, in this case).

i would only hope that Obsidian will here the outcry from all of us about the terrible bugs in this game and do something to actually correct them. please obsidian, hear our cries!

i've been a long time fan of fallout and was really excited for New Vegas. all the bugs aside, i still think its a good game that can sit right in line with fallout 1 & 2. i'm about 50 hours in so far, but would probably be in another 10 if it weren't for the crashes and lockups.

i've gotta say, before the patch, i only experienced minor graphical glitchs, nothing major. but after the patch is when i got the corrupt save files and crashes. oh and all this on the Xbox version

I think they need to hire a dev team just to fix the engine... or make a new one. It seems like a fair bit of this is that the Foundation of Fallout is build on a foundation of mud. I think if they get there engine running like a fine tuned machine and not a wild old clunker they they could make some serious headway. Also, I have no real opinion on the article besides Shamus is right and fanboys suck.

It is true that Obsidian has a reputation for buggy games. However, this is my experience with their games: KotOR II wasn't so much buggy as unfinished, NWN2 had A LOT of minor bugs, but nothing really major (no CTDs, for example) now we have Fallout: NV where I encountered an NPC stuck inside a rock and at least 2 CTDs within 1 hour of starting the game. (I have a non-bug complaint as well, actually:

)

To me, it appears that Obsidian's games are actually getting more buggy as time goes on, despite their reputation, which I'm sure they know about by now. My question is: Why don't they set deadlines and budgets so as to avoid this?

The publisher may be partly responsible, but the developer should have at least some say in that, right?

thebighead01:
Don't know why you responded to these fools Shamus. You will always have idiots who will blindly defend a game no matter what. There's no way to change their pathetic little minds. Just let them be happy. If they're ignorant enough to think that a game that is so monumentally buggy should be accepted as a product for sale then let them think that way. They have low standards and because of that they are paying for people's salaries. In a way they are doing a good thing; you know helping the economy with their retardedness. Never say that their isn't anyone that can't contribute to society.

Exactly. Shamus is responding to fanboys and idiots. Neither group should ever be given a platform and neither group will listen to his reasonable arguments either.

The thing I hated about your previous article was that for people who hadn't played the game, because you didn't say anything good, it would give them the wrong opinion that the whole game was bad.

Glitches be damned, my biggest gripe is still the [purposefully inserted] invisible walls. We're supposed to be roaming these giant desert plains, and I can't very well do it with invisible walls at the top of every outcropping. Though climbing in Fallout 3 could be hard, at least you knew that if you got to the top you were all set. Here climbing is just for kicks to see how far the invisible wall will let you get. Then you have to take the [pointlessly] predetermined route into an area, like only due SouthEast for Quarry Junction.

The article initially written was pretty much just the same things that were being posted across numerous forums, I.E. the article was a 'repeat' thread.

People took it way too seriously with those kinds of responses.

" I want to see Obsidian deliver a top-notch game that's not infested with bugs and glitches. This is simply not going to happen as long as gamers continue to accept sub-standard quality and make excuses for them."

You're still completely missing the point, Shamus. Very brave to dismiss any substantive point made against your misplaced rant, as well. Calling it angry fanboyish noise also was so very respectful.

Thing is that the console and gaming press is constantly ignoring huge bugs and gameplay problems from large commercial games. Mafia 2 - not a word. Red Dead - not a mention. Bethesda's Fallout 3, on the same engine - few mentioned bugs in their initial write-ups. And the escapist is no better. This is nothing new, and something that has been pointed out many, many times before.

But when Obsidian makes a game, there's no end to the kind of criticism coming up. And you fail to account for why that is - either by actually describing the bugs specifically, or by perhaps drawing up some guidelines for what type of gameplay bugs reviews easily could note in the future.

If you don't do that, then this simply comes off as the usual console-magazine appetite for internet drama, and nothing more, Shamus. Frankly, it's the least you can do when the entire point with the article was to make a larger point about the industry.

So I'll make a bet with you now - the next time any of the larger and well backed developers make a game, the escapist won't mention a single bug. And they will also not note that this game - in a first in the industry - has absolutely no bugs, clipping errors, visual artefacts, or otherwise things that will be tortured to fit the definition for the occasion.

Care to bet against me on that..?

Ugg...

I have a gripe about Shamus' growing habit of using entire articles to respond to gripes about his gripes.

It's not the end of the world if some people don't always agree with you, that's what forums are all about.

TraderJimmy:

Vestsao:
This only edifies one of the most prominent arguments against PC gaming. The substantial diversification in PC hardware ensures that developers have a difficult time developing games which will adequately run. You'll have a game which has a particular error with one graphics card and runs smooth as butter on another graphics card.

Edifies means informing someone in a sort of 'character-building' or 'moral' way.

Wait here, I'll google for an example...tum te tum...

Here, "Knowledge puffs up but love edifies." from Corinthians.

I couldn't find an irreligious example, it appears it has religious connotations as well

I don't think it fits here. And when one person uses a word wrong it kinda tends to spread, so I tend to pedant about it if I think they won't mind too much.

Hope you don't!

OT: Strange that people leap to the defence of a game like that. Bugs are a major issue. Titan Quest, the PC version of Juiced, really PISSED ME OFF with their constant CTD's. It's not something you can just ignore.

Well lookie' hurr boys, we got us one o' them gee-nee-uses. Gol-darn them's some fancy wordin's. I shurr wish we had one'a them eddications so we could be half as in-tee-lectual.

Note: While your parents might be really proud of your "AP composition" level education, this kind of crap only serves to belittle/anger people in droves. You should only do this kind of crap on a forum devoted to writing or school, it serves no purpose on a *videogame* topic. People make grammatical errors. It happens. Go police another forum.

/climb on soapbox

Just a couple nitpicks:

"I agree that it is far superior to Fallout 3" kinda confused me a bit. What is superior? Less bugs or better plot/itemization/fun stuff? I'm not arguing that it's better or worse than Fallout 3; it seems about the same to me, just different story, factions and items. I just want clarification as to what you were basing that on.

This is more a theory hypothesis than a nitpick. I think that the reason the mechanics are dumbed down is an attempt to broaden the audience from us number-crunching nerds to the neo/contemporary-gamers that play Bejeweled Blitz on their cell phone for fun. I love meta-ing to my hearts content my stats but it does take away from immersion. You need to take into account the graphics (they don't by themselves excuse shortcomings but are a factor in this). The Devs get all excited by their new engines and think of all the awesome stuff they can do to make their game prettier. So they spend less time on the bare bones to spend more on the graphics and world design. They are trying to say "Now, take a quick these basic stats, but don't spend too much time on them. Oh don't worry about speccing, the game will take care of that for you. See our pretty hills and trees from this scenic vista we sent you to, and the detailed rubble, the people that fit the archetypes we made up while stoned drunk, look that cute tumbleweed blowing by, the grungy lighting, those blood stai- Would you stop looking at your Pipboy every two god damned seconds! We're trying to show you how much time, blood, sweat and tears we put into the graphics! Geez! We already told you the stats are just to pick what bland archetype you are! Why can't you get with the times and focus on the wrapping?" So instead of the naturally beautiful, well-groomed woman with tasteful clothing we get something like the anorexic, make-up caked...er..."ladies of the night" that we see plastered all over "Music Television." Our generation is telling them with our wallet that that's what we like so they're sure as hell gonna deliver it.

Lastly, while the good points don't have to excuse the shortcomings, they do have to discussed at some point, if for nothing else than to say: "Hey! See these? We want more of this!" However small, if there is something, some little, infintessimally minute thing of redeeming value, it should be pointed out. I understand and appreciate that you pointed out the objective of this to be an opinion article on a component the game, not an unbiased review of the whole. However, I think the critics haven't been schooled enough in the finer points of debate to recognize this. Weird, ignorant people on forums? I'd never have guessed that.

If your article was biased it would be from your (hypothetical) hatred of WRPGs, games with bugs in them, games made by Obsidian, games that are about the apocalypse or other things of that sort which filter/skew your view as opposed to your actual article which merely addressed a part of the entirety of Fallout New Vegas's worth.

Shamus Young:
Experienced Points: Obsidian Mailbag

Shamus responds to the many gripes about his gripes with Obsidian and Fallout New Vegas.

Read Full Article

In Australia if the game doesn't work then your allowed to return it, when you buy anything if its faulty or doesn't work then you have the right to a refund or exchange.
I'm also sick of game companies getting $ from games that are clearly buggy and unfinished because the general consensus is people don't care. They'll be on the next game in a month or so, its all about rushing a game out before people get bored and move on.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here