Obsidian Mailbag

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I still love Obsidian, despite the flaws.

"I agree, New Vegas is far superior to Fallout 3."

Nohohoho... Not even close, buddy. :P

Wow, those dumbasses actually read your column Shamus? Do I feel sorry for you. NV has many plenty of bugs but not all ruin the experience. But a game that crashes every few hours isn't exactly what I'd call a stable game.

The buggy FO3 engine probably deserves a lot of the blame but it's still an amazing game.

Great game with that big but. Only had one issue so far (about 10 hours in) but it was a bit of a mood breaker.

I got myself to a railway tunnel south of the Nellis AFB, got in, picked my way through the ghouls and mines, only to see a turn off and fall through the floor. After several attempts to jump the vortex I gave up and continued to the end of the tunnel - and gotten eaten by a Deathclaw.

I can totally understand bashing a game for bugs...even giving a "Do Not Buy" rating due to excessive bugs...but this all seems a bit unfair. Yes, the PC version hardly works at all...but the 360 and PS3 versions seem to work great. If you want to bash a game because it works poorly on a platform that very few gamers still use, that is fine; but then you have to move on and talk about the game itself (even if you just complain the whole time)...because it works great on the PS3 and the 360, and that is where it will be played the most.

kouriichi:

its not just me its working for though. Like i said, not a single person i know ((including the 30 people who go up to the local timbuktu)) has complained about it being a mess. Most of the people who are having problems tend to be more theyer fault then that of the games.

So 1/30 people had theyer memory wiped? amazing! That means the game is completely broken and the company messed up! Most of the time when i do hear about bugs from this game it is minor. "Floating dogs", "People missing", "texture bad". I dont think any of those are game breakers.

it is an amazing game. And people are freaking out about the "terrible bugs" that ruin it. But i cant say any bugs ive seen, or heard of would ruin the game.

So what if your game data was erased? Play the game again. Its not like you have 200 hours on a single save.

"I like shoddy products" is my whole conclusion from you. 1/30 is a horrible statistic of failure, an acceptable one is when we are talking about 1/1000 at the very least. If you can't see that, it just means you are too far up your ass to even notice that there is a world around you. Fun case, if I have a car that 1/30 have shoddy breaks, but if you don't have the break problem, the car works like a dream, it's still a car with shoddy breaks.

Also, aside from broken save files (WHICH SHOULD NEVER BE A PROBLEM IN A PROFESSIONAL PRODUCT, EVER), there are crashes to desktop and even crashes on the home console versions. Really mate, if you can still put a conceited smile and just say "it didn't happen to me, so fuck everybody else" then not much else I can say. I can only hope you get the next Fallout sequel and get it working wonky on you so you get the bloody point of the whole article. The costumer demands quality, if the costumer does not demand quality, quality drops. It is specially sad in this case since the game quality itself is amazing and is brought down by technical quality.

Another thing, games should NOT need patches. Patches should only exist in MMO games unless they exist to add content and to tweak power scales, not not avoid game crippling bugs. I find it bullshit that the answer form some people is "Hey, no problem, just wait with your bugged mess for a month till a patch comes out and pray it doesn't bring more problems".

Dommyboy:
Wasn't Bethesda supposed to test NV though?

THIS. people forget that BETHESDA WAS THE HEAD OF QUALITY CONTROL. THEY TESTED THE GAME, THEY OVERSAW THE DEVELOPMENT, THEY APPROVED EVERY MOVEMENT OBSIDIAN MADE IN WRITING, AND THEY REVIEWED IT THEN DECIDED TO RELEASE IT.

This goes to show that people will blame ANYONE but their own damn idol. Bethesda is at fault for NV, not obsidian. Obsidian just made the game, Bethesda said "no bugs! NEXT!". If you wanna complain about a shoddy game, blame who IS REALLY AT FAULT.

Vestsao:
This only edifies one of the most prominent arguments against PC gaming. The substantial diversification in PC hardware ensures that developers have a difficult time developing games which will adequately run. You'll have a game which has a particular error with one graphics card and runs smooth as butter on another graphics card.

I remember when games used to have to specify what brands of hardware they would work on. I remember when you used to need a reasonable amount of technical knowledge to even understand what the system requirements for some games actually meant. This is actually getting a lot better and continues to do so every year.

This is partially because of growing monopolies/oligopolies in the computing world, and partially because the industry is just learning to do things better as generations of computers come and go. Still it would be better if companies didn't have to try and support 3 or more different generations of Windows, etc.

Rants like the previous article tend to draw out the fanboi. It's like throwing a steak into a tiger pit.

i love the game but there is no denying that it has issues i have had saves go corrupt, quests get bugged out etc etc, but i had the same issues in fallout 3 to, the gamebro engine is a piece of shit period. it was a piece of shit for oblivion, it was a piece of shit for fallout 3 and it is a piece of shit for fallout new vegas.

not that obsidian has had a glowing track record for bug free games but i think this time it is mostly down on the engine that bethesda stuck them with.

far as the well bioware makes mostly bug free games, well alot more less buggy than bethesda or obsidian, but bioware makes linear rpgs, and bethesda and obsidian nv makes sandbox rpgs. linear rpgs have a huge advantage there is only one way to go one way to advance and the games are paced and scripted to work under specific conditions. a sandbox game is open by its very nature it has alot more going on and has to account for alot more scripting and possibilities period, sandbox games always are going to have more issues than the go down the hall turn left enter boss room fight rpgs.

on a plus note beth has taken sole possession of id's latest engine they are making rage with and that bodes well for the next gen of fallouts and etc. since id has been making great engines for years with full support mod tools and stable engines to boot. so the gamebro engine is in its last throws.

Wow, these are some deeply worrisome bugs.

Floating objects? Bad textures? I can forgive those. Testers could just have missed Object #40913.

Broken quests? Collision problems? Unexpected balance problems? I'll wait for the patch. This is worthy of blame, but not of avoiding the game entirely.

Save file corruption? Hard crashes with no warning? Deal-breaker. If I wanted to lose hours of progress with no recourse, I'd boot up Demon's Souls.

From what I've heard it was released buggy on purpose to peeve pirates and most bugs are going to be fixed in a patch later on.

Suicidal Hobo:
From what I've heard it was released buggy on purpose to peeve pirates and most bugs are going to be fixed in a patch later on.

I think I like this line, and am going to use it in my own work.
I only turned in a bad product to deter would-be thieves. All that struggling and braying and crying in the corner I've been doing for the past year or so was just to cover my masterful plan.

I only came across three bugs. One was that I was not able to do the Nightkin Brahmin murder quest. Sometimes when I would switch to third person my character is not visible and last but not least, when I switched to third person once, the entire terrain clipped to me and it felt like I drank some bad cactus juice. Aside from that, I am having a hell of a good time with the game.

Ultratwinkie:

Dommyboy:
Wasn't Bethesda supposed to test NV though?

THIS. people forget that BETHESDA WAS THE HEAD OF QUALITY CONTROL. THEY TESTED THE GAME, THEY OVERSAW THE DEVELOPMENT, THEY APPROVED EVERY MOVEMENT OBSIDIAN MADE IN WRITING, AND THEY REVIEWED IT THEN DECIDED TO RELEASE IT.

This goes to show that people will blame ANYONE but their own damn idol. Bethesda is at fault for NV, not obsidian. Obsidian just made the game, Bethesda said "no bugs! NEXT!". If you wanna complain about a shoddy game, blame who IS REALLY AT FAULT.

That's what I thought too. That was my only complaint with original article. Bethesda was the one who was supposed to be handling the whole "making sure the game isn't bugged to hell and back". I'm probably going to wait for the game of the year edition to come out. Hopefully by then all the bugs will be fixed and I won't have to pay extra for all the DLC.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I think it is silly for Shamus to have to defend his.

I have played NWN2, both the NWN2 expansions, KotOR2, Alpha Protocol, and Fallout New Vegas. There were bugs in all of these games, but none so bad to halt my progress. Would I like better QA, of course I would.

Still, I have to say that Obsidian is like Bioware in that they craft great stories with memorable characters and tackle themes which most other games would never dare to. Also they cater to player freedom, often giving you many ways to progress through the game, leading to a rich set of choices, each with their own consequences in end-game.

If I have to live with some annoying bugs, especially early in the release so be it. I still buy and support Obsidian games. It's better than yet another Halo/Gears of War/Modern Warfare clone.

I'm sad the patch didn't fix more of his bugs. poor man.

He is quite correct however, it would be way more awesome if it was mostly bug free.

The thing most irking is the lack of logic in the actual game design that others have mentioned.

He's an enemy. I kill him. I can loot his corspe. But if I loot his camp, I lose Karma for stealing. WHAT?!!

Fallout 3 was like that, but it was easier to give a pass then. That it's still the same way is like Obsidian validates it.

Razhem:

kouriichi:

its not just me its working for though. Like i said, not a single person i know ((including the 30 people who go up to the local timbuktu)) has complained about it being a mess. Most of the people who are having problems tend to be more theyer fault then that of the games.

So 1/30 people had theyer memory wiped? amazing! That means the game is completely broken and the company messed up! Most of the time when i do hear about bugs from this game it is minor. "Floating dogs", "People missing", "texture bad". I dont think any of those are game breakers.

it is an amazing game. And people are freaking out about the "terrible bugs" that ruin it. But i cant say any bugs ive seen, or heard of would ruin the game.

So what if your game data was erased? Play the game again. Its not like you have 200 hours on a single save.

"I like shoddy products" is my whole conclusion from you. 1/30 is a horrible statistic of failure, an acceptable one is when we are talking about 1/1000 at the very least. If you can't see that, it just means you are too far up your ass to even notice that there is a world around you. Fun case, if I have a car that 1/30 have shoddy breaks, but if you don't have the break problem, the car works like a dream, it's still a car with shoddy breaks.

Also, aside from broken save files (WHICH SHOULD NEVER BE A PROBLEM IN A PROFESSIONAL PRODUCT, EVER), there are crashes to desktop and even crashes on the home console versions. Really mate, if you can still put a conceited smile and just say "it didn't happen to me, so fuck everybody else" then not much else I can say. I can only hope you get the next Fallout sequel and get it working wonky on you so you get the bloody point of the whole article. The costumer demands quality, if the costumer does not demand quality, quality drops. It is specially sad in this case since the game quality itself is amazing and is brought down by technical quality.

Another thing, games should NOT need patches. Patches should only exist in MMO games unless they exist to add content and to tweak power scales, not not avoid game crippling bugs. I find it bullshit that the answer form some people is "Hey, no problem, just wait with your bugged mess for a month till a patch comes out and pray it doesn't bring more problems".

Accually, you know what? I hate shoddy products. Modern Warfare 2, halo reach, the last scilent hill release. These are shoddy products. These are games that are just horrible.
Your letting a few bugs get in the way of a good, solid game. And those are hard to come by these days. So what if theres a few problems. You cant expect everything to always be perfict. To expect a game to come out, bug free, with 0 problems is just insane.
As time goes by, games get larger. Have you seen the size of New Vegas?!? Its almost ((if not more then)) 7 gigs! Just for one game! Back when games didnt have "problems" they were barly 1 gig!!

This is a great game. Not a shoddy one. Any game that can sink an addicting total of 200 hours plus from just 4 or 5 people tells you its not shoddy. ((without complaining i mean.))
Its a great game. Your complaining about things that WILL BE FIXED. If you cant handle the bugs, dont gripe about them, wait for them to be fixed.

Yet again, i state that i dont know a single person who has encountered a "game crippling bug" that others have. And in my group of friends ((30+ or even 60 if you include the local gaming club)) we complain about alot of things. You cant go 5 minutes with my friends without hearing them complain about some BS in halo or OMA Noobtubes in call of duty. Yet i havent heard a single complaint about New Vegas yet.

You seem to think 80% of everyone who purchased this game has horrible, mind blowing bugs. But im guessing its barly out of the 30% area. Times are changing. Games are getting bigger. The chances of something being wrong are increasing.

The real question here is, eould you rather have a few bugs, or wait another 2 months for them to beta test the game? I dont care if i get hit with a bug or two. BE HAPPY THE GAME IS EVEN OUT TO ENJOY!!

Way to completely dodge the fact that you said the game save issue was on the games side, not Steam.. you past a speech check, didn't ya?

Two fucking years, they had two years to fix the engine and most of the bugs are still present, they have somehow even managed to consive some prtty interesting new ones. And those of you who plame the PC, it's not about the platform, ok the consoles may have less graphical bugs but overal games on all platforms are still buggy as hell. I think it actually depends on the way you play the game, for example I have the pc version and I could get like 4 hours straight and clean gamepaly no bugs whatsoever, but then turing half an hour the game fucks with me more ways than you could imagine and it's because I play the game in a way developers did not itend me to play it, but I want to play the fucking game however I like and it's bloody annoying if I can't.

it saddens me to see how there are actually enough of these idiots to even address the problem in a separate article...

Thanks for saying this out loud. I've always wondered why so many people make excuses and stick up for Obsidian. What have they done that's been so great (well, they did get NWN2 working great, after many updates and expansions that is). As far as I know, this company has never released a game that didn't have plenty of bugs in it.

I just bought New Vegas and played it for a couple of hours last night. And so far, nothing bad has happened. But after playing this and Fallout 3 (done by a better developer) I think Bethesda needs to retire the game engine.

Suicidal Hobo:
From what I've heard it was released buggy on purpose to peeve pirates and most bugs are going to be fixed in a patch later on.

Right, like those patches won't have cracks available soon after! LOL

Live4Lotus:
I can totally understand bashing a game for bugs...even giving a "Do Not Buy" rating due to excessive bugs...but this all seems a bit unfair. Yes, the PC version hardly works at all...but the 360 and PS3 versions seem to work great. If you want to bash a game because it works poorly on a platform that very few gamers still use, that is fine; but then you have to move on and talk about the game itself (even if you just complain the whole time)...because it works great on the PS3 and the 360, and that is where it will be played the most.

actually, if you look at the comments for the previous article, the console versions have just as much trouble as the pc's, which I find inexcusable.

kouriichi:

Razhem:

kouriichi:

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walls of text aside, the answer I can choose in less than a second with no hesitation is YES, I DO WANT EXTRA TESTING DONE. you can't let developers get away with releasing crappy products, going by your math, if 1/30 people had a problem with the game, and it becomes a best seller and sells millions, which it already has, thats hundreds of thousands of deffective copies, in what way is that excusable?

I hate the argument "rejoice the game made it out" because there are plenty of games that would be awesome IF they had their bugs removed. If given a choice, I'd close down developers before releasing buggy games.

CD-R:

Ultratwinkie:

Dommyboy:
Wasn't Bethesda supposed to test NV though?

THIS. people forget that BETHESDA WAS THE HEAD OF QUALITY CONTROL. THEY TESTED THE GAME, THEY OVERSAW THE DEVELOPMENT, THEY APPROVED EVERY MOVEMENT OBSIDIAN MADE IN WRITING, AND THEY REVIEWED IT THEN DECIDED TO RELEASE IT.

This goes to show that people will blame ANYONE but their own damn idol. Bethesda is at fault for NV, not obsidian. Obsidian just made the game, Bethesda said "no bugs! NEXT!". If you wanna complain about a shoddy game, blame who IS REALLY AT FAULT.

That's what I thought too. That was my only complaint with original article. Bethesda was the one who was supposed to be handling the whole "making sure the game isn't bugged to hell and back". I'm probably going to wait for the game of the year edition to come out. Hopefully by then all the bugs will be fixed and I won't have to pay extra for all the DLC.

bethesda isn't at fault, they are at just as much as obsidian, there are plenty of ways when programing something to test it and make sure it works, not to mention, avoid further errors. Are we just going to ignore the fact that all obsidian games released before NV were buggy as hell? Also ironic that at the end of these arguments "people blame everyone but their idol" they make it look like they idolize obsidian for which they lay no blame.

Warachia:

kouriichi:

Razhem:

kouriichi:

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walls of text aside, the answer I can choose in less than a second with no hesitation is YES, I DO WANT EXTRA TESTING DONE. you can't let developers get away with releasing crappy products, going by your math, if 1/30 people had a problem with the game, and it becomes a best seller and sells millions, which it already has, thats hundreds of thousands of deffective copies, in what way is that excusable?

I hate the argument "rejoice the game made it out" because there are plenty of games that would be awesome IF they had their bugs removed. If given a choice, I'd close down developers before releasing buggy games.

So you would rather wait 3 more months for it to be out?
Youd rather not be able to play the game, at all, then have it right now to play?

I know the game has bugs. And its effected several people. But that doesnt mean its a bad game.

Your saying, this is the worst game ever produced because it has bugs, and that the company should be shutdown right now because they released this game?

If you are saying that, then your ((really only way to describe it)) and idiot. Its an amazing game. Everyone ive talked to has done nothing but raved about the game. And for good reason. But do a few problems make it a bad game? No. Its not broken. It works. You can play it. You can have a good time. If your going to complain about every little problem and nitpick, the future of gaming isnt for you.

As games get bigger, chances of bugs and problems does too. You cant have everything perfict. Its eather play the game now, or wait 2-4 months for them to explore every inch on the wasteland. And thats if they decide to keep the engine. If they decided to scrap it, the game wouldent be out until the middle of next year! Be happy you atleast have the game to play. And DEAL WITH THE PROBLEMS. Dont sit here and complain "my game crashed, i want my money back!"

Yes. The game crashes every few hours, at completely random times. But theres a quick save button. Use it. ((at least if your on PC anyway. And if you arnt, you made a horrible choice on which system to purchase it for))

kouriichi:

Warachia:

kouriichi:

Razhem:

kouriichi:

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walls of text aside, the answer I can choose in less than a second with no hesitation is YES, I DO WANT EXTRA TESTING DONE. you can't let developers get away with releasing crappy products, going by your math, if 1/30 people had a problem with the game, and it becomes a best seller and sells millions, which it already has, thats hundreds of thousands of deffective copies, in what way is that excusable?

I hate the argument "rejoice the game made it out" because there are plenty of games that would be awesome IF they had their bugs removed. If given a choice, I'd close down developers before releasing buggy games.

So you would rather wait 3 more months for it to be out?
Youd rather not be able to play the game, at all, then have it right now to play?

I know the game has bugs. And its effected several people. But that doesnt mean its a bad game.

Your saying, this is the worst game ever produced because it has bugs, and that the company should be shutdown right now because they released this game?

If you are saying that, then your ((really only way to describe it)) and idiot. Its an amazing game. Everyone ive talked to has done nothing but raved about the game. And for good reason. But do a few problems make it a bad game? No. Its not broken. It works. You can play it. You can have a good time. If your going to complain about every little problem and nitpick, the future of gaming isnt for you.

As games get bigger, chances of bugs and problems does too. You cant have everything perfict. Its eather play the game now, or wait 2-4 months for them to explore every inch on the wasteland. And thats if they decide to keep the engine. If they decided to scrap it, the game wouldent be out until the middle of next year! Be happy you atleast have the game to play. And DEAL WITH THE PROBLEMS. Dont sit here and complain "my game crashed, i want my money back!"

Yes. The game crashes every few hours, at completely random times. But theres a quick save button. Use it. ((at least if your on PC anyway. And if you arnt, you made a horrible choice on which system to purchase it for))

so let me get this straight, you're saying that it is nitpicking to point out flaws in a game that stop me from playing it? YES I would rather wait as long as it takes for bugs to get fixed, I never once said that this game was the worst game ever, that was you attempting badly to put words into my mouth, nor did I say that the company SHOULD be shutdown, I said to look at their track record. No, I don't expect everything to be perfect, but I expect to get something deep I can get immersed in, not a company that releases games that crash, and corrupt data.

To tell the truth, I love Bioware, I love Bioware games, you know why? because I love story based games and gameplay. I would love for obsidian to release a great rpg, but kotor 2 I couldn't finish because an npc was missing, NVN 2 crashed and corrupted 5 hours of data, alpha protocol was almost unbeatable because the enemy could see me LITERALLY through 3 walls and could shoot through cover, and every time I borrow NV from a friend, it eventually crashed while loading, corrupting the data. Does this make them bad game designers? Yes it does, especially when they claimed to have 300+ beta testers.

Warachia:

kouriichi:

Warachia:

kouriichi:

Razhem:

kouriichi:

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walls of text aside, the answer I can choose in less than a second with no hesitation is YES, I DO WANT EXTRA TESTING DONE. you can't let developers get away with releasing crappy products, going by your math, if 1/30 people had a problem with the game, and it becomes a best seller and sells millions, which it already has, thats hundreds of thousands of deffective copies, in what way is that excusable?

I hate the argument "rejoice the game made it out" because there are plenty of games that would be awesome IF they had their bugs removed. If given a choice, I'd close down developers before releasing buggy games.

So you would rather wait 3 more months for it to be out?
Youd rather not be able to play the game, at all, then have it right now to play?

I know the game has bugs. And its effected several people. But that doesnt mean its a bad game.

Your saying, this is the worst game ever produced because it has bugs, and that the company should be shutdown right now because they released this game?

If you are saying that, then your ((really only way to describe it)) and idiot. Its an amazing game. Everyone ive talked to has done nothing but raved about the game. And for good reason. But do a few problems make it a bad game? No. Its not broken. It works. You can play it. You can have a good time. If your going to complain about every little problem and nitpick, the future of gaming isnt for you.

As games get bigger, chances of bugs and problems does too. You cant have everything perfict. Its eather play the game now, or wait 2-4 months for them to explore every inch on the wasteland. And thats if they decide to keep the engine. If they decided to scrap it, the game wouldent be out until the middle of next year! Be happy you atleast have the game to play. And DEAL WITH THE PROBLEMS. Dont sit here and complain "my game crashed, i want my money back!"

Yes. The game crashes every few hours, at completely random times. But theres a quick save button. Use it. ((at least if your on PC anyway. And if you arnt, you made a horrible choice on which system to purchase it for))

so let me get this straight, you're saying that it is nitpicking to point out flaws in a game that stop me from playing it? YES I would rather wait as long as it takes for bugs to get fixed, I never once said that this game was the worst game ever, that was you attempting badly to put words into my mouth, nor did I say that the company SHOULD be shutdown, I said to look at their track record. No, I don't expect everything to be perfect, but I expect to get something deep I can get immersed in, not a company that releases games that crash, and corrupt data.

To tell the truth, I love Bioware, I love Bioware games, you know why? because I love story based games and gameplay. I would love for obsidian to release a great rpg, but kotor 2 I couldn't finish because an npc was missing, NVN 2 crashed and corrupted 5 hours of data, alpha protocol was almost unbeatable because the enemy could see me LITERALLY through 3 walls and could shoot through cover, and every time I borrow NV from a friend, it eventually crashed while loading, corrupting the data. Does this make them bad game designers? Yes it does, especially when they claimed to have 300+ beta testers.

But thats just you. I played((and happly own)) Neverwinter nights 2, and i never ran into problems. Same with AP. Infact, i spec'd my character in it for me to spacifically have a hard time. ((shotguns are not a good idea)).

If i did encounter bugs, they never stopped me from enjoying the games. They did have over 300 beta testers. But 300 people cant find every problem in a game as big as this one. Look at World of warcraft! Theyer still fixing and balancing it every week!

Theyer great devolpers, otherwise the game wouldent be half as good as it is now. Something tells me your playing NV on a console. ((because your barrowing it from your friend)) But thats a horrible idea. This game was more of less ment for PC. Consoles are outdated for the newer games coming out. Theres bound to be more problems on the console then on the PC.

Your saying, the problems youve encountered have ruined the game for you. But its selfish to say, "No one should play the game because im not having a good time." To be honest, i would have taken this game a month before it was released! before the testers even had time to fix half the bugs the game probably had!

Why? Because its a great game. Your letting a few bugs get in the way of YOUR good time. I ignore them, like any half sensible person.

OH! And if you didnt even purchase the game (("and every time I borrow NV from a friend, it eventually crashed while loading, corrupting the data")) you really dont have a right to complain about it. :/ you should buy your own copy and see if you encounter the problems. Chances are its from the scratched disk your friends been loaning you.

kouriichi:

Warachia:

kouriichi:

Warachia:

kouriichi:

Razhem:

kouriichi:

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so let me get this straight, you're saying that it is nitpicking to point out flaws in a game that stop me from playing it? YES I would rather wait as long as it takes for bugs to get fixed, I never once said that this game was the worst game ever, that was you attempting badly to put words into my mouth, nor did I say that the company SHOULD be shutdown, I said to look at their track record. No, I don't expect everything to be perfect, but I expect to get something deep I can get immersed in, not a company that releases games that crash, and corrupt data.

To tell the truth, I love Bioware, I love Bioware games, you know why? because I love story based games and gameplay. I would love for obsidian to release a great rpg, but kotor 2 I couldn't finish because an npc was missing, NVN 2 crashed and corrupted 5 hours of data, alpha protocol was almost unbeatable because the enemy could see me LITERALLY through 3 walls and could shoot through cover, and every time I borrow NV from a friend, it eventually crashed while loading, corrupting the data. Does this make them bad game designers? Yes it does, especially when they claimed to have 300+ beta testers.

But thats just you. I played((and happly own)) Neverwinter nights 2, and i never ran into problems. Same with AP. Infact, i spec'd my character in it for me to spacifically have a hard time. ((shotguns are not a good idea)).

If i did encounter bugs, they never stopped me from enjoying the games. They did have over 300 beta testers. But 300 people cant find every problem in a game as big as this one. Look at World of warcraft! Theyer still fixing and balancing it every week!

Theyer great devolpers, otherwise the game wouldent be half as good as it is now. Something tells me your playing NV on a console. ((because your barrowing it from your friend)) But thats a horrible idea. This game was more of less ment for PC. Consoles are outdated for the newer games coming out. Theres bound to be more problems on the console then on the PC.

Your saying, the problems youve encountered have ruined the game for you. But its selfish to say, "No one should play the game because im not having a good time." To be honest, i would have taken this game a month before it was released! before the testers even had time to fix half the bugs the game probably had!

Why? Because its a great game. Your letting a few bugs get in the way of YOUR good time. I ignore them, like any half sensible person.

OH! And if you didnt even purchase the game (("and every time I borrow NV from a friend, it eventually crashed while loading, corrupting the data")) you really dont have a right to complain about it. :/ you should buy your own copy and see if you encounter the problems. Chances are its from the scratched disk your friends been loaning you.

It's not just me, look at the article we are arguing on, look at other similar forums, hundreds of people (as the escapist is a small group of the large gamer whole) have the exact same issues, you can update consoles and with obsidians grand 0/4 games that worked right for me, OF COURSE I'LL BORROW NV BEFORE BUYING IT. If I borrow something, and it doesn't work, that means it doesn't work for the person I borrowed it from (I checked and it doesn't, he returned it) and I might get the same problem, I work for my money, and because of living expenses I don't have much. I never said that nobody should play the game because I wasn't having a good time, I said bugs should be fixed before release, and funnily enough, people seem to be having more bugs on pc than consoles.

If your argument is going to consist of nothing more than attempting to put words in my mouth because you assume to know what I am saying, go ahead, you can have you bottle, I won't respond anymore.

Warachia:

kouriichi:

Warachia:

kouriichi:

Warachia:

kouriichi:

Razhem:

kouriichi:

snip

snip

snip

snip

snip

so let me get this straight, you're saying that it is nitpicking to point out flaws in a game that stop me from playing it? YES I would rather wait as long as it takes for bugs to get fixed, I never once said that this game was the worst game ever, that was you attempting badly to put words into my mouth, nor did I say that the company SHOULD be shutdown, I said to look at their track record. No, I don't expect everything to be perfect, but I expect to get something deep I can get immersed in, not a company that releases games that crash, and corrupt data.

To tell the truth, I love Bioware, I love Bioware games, you know why? because I love story based games and gameplay. I would love for obsidian to release a great rpg, but kotor 2 I couldn't finish because an npc was missing, NVN 2 crashed and corrupted 5 hours of data, alpha protocol was almost unbeatable because the enemy could see me LITERALLY through 3 walls and could shoot through cover, and every time I borrow NV from a friend, it eventually crashed while loading, corrupting the data. Does this make them bad game designers? Yes it does, especially when they claimed to have 300+ beta testers.

But thats just you. I played((and happly own)) Neverwinter nights 2, and i never ran into problems. Same with AP. Infact, i spec'd my character in it for me to spacifically have a hard time. ((shotguns are not a good idea)).

If i did encounter bugs, they never stopped me from enjoying the games. They did have over 300 beta testers. But 300 people cant find every problem in a game as big as this one. Look at World of warcraft! Theyer still fixing and balancing it every week!

Theyer great devolpers, otherwise the game wouldent be half as good as it is now. Something tells me your playing NV on a console. ((because your barrowing it from your friend)) But thats a horrible idea. This game was more of less ment for PC. Consoles are outdated for the newer games coming out. Theres bound to be more problems on the console then on the PC.

Your saying, the problems youve encountered have ruined the game for you. But its selfish to say, "No one should play the game because im not having a good time." To be honest, i would have taken this game a month before it was released! before the testers even had time to fix half the bugs the game probably had!

Why? Because its a great game. Your letting a few bugs get in the way of YOUR good time. I ignore them, like any half sensible person.

OH! And if you didnt even purchase the game (("and every time I borrow NV from a friend, it eventually crashed while loading, corrupting the data")) you really dont have a right to complain about it. :/ you should buy your own copy and see if you encounter the problems. Chances are its from the scratched disk your friends been loaning you.

It's not just me, look at the article we are arguing on, look at other similar forums, hundreds of people (as the escapist is a small group of the large gamer whole) have the exact same issues, you can update consoles and with obsidians grand 0/4 games that worked right for me, OF COURSE I'LL BORROW NV BEFORE BUYING IT. If I borrow something, and it doesn't work, that means it doesn't work for the person I borrowed it from (I checked and it doesn't, he returned it) and I might get the same problem, I work for my money, and because of living expenses I don't have much. I never said that nobody should play the game because I wasn't having a good time, I said bugs should be fixed before release, and funnily enough, people seem to be having more bugs on pc than consoles.

If your argument is going to consist of nothing more than attempting to put words in my mouth because you assume to know what I am saying, go ahead, you can have you bottle, I won't respond anymore.

:/ im not putting words in your mouth.

Im saying your argument is a selfish one. You didnt even purchase the game, and your complaining about it.

Many people do have bugs. But most of them dont care there are bugs. YES THERE ARE BUGS, WE GET IT. So dont play the game, and dont complain about it.

Why are you complaining about it to begin with? You didnt spend a dime on it. You dont own the game and play it every day. Ask your friend what he thinks. Is he still playing it? Is he having a good time?

YOUR JUST PICKY! PICKY PICKY PICKY! You want this game to be perfict. Thats nice. Dont buy it, wait for the bugs to be fixed. Dont sit there like an idiot and bad mouth the company and game because you DIDNT SPEND A PENNY on the game that your complaining about bugs in.

Your arguement is basically, "Im barrowing the game from my friend because i dont want to spend $60 right no, ((the internet pirate's argument, which, chances are if no one pirated theyer past games they could afford to hire more testers)) and the bugs in the game i dont own and didnt pay for are making it unplayable for me because im picky and didnt accually even purchase the game."

I bought the game. There are bugs. OH WELL. i got over it. If there was a problem, i reloaded the game. If it crashed, oh well, i saved my game. Data got corrupted? Oh well. Delete it, and play it again, this time, having more fun because your arnt starting out starke nakid with no concept of direction in the world.

kouriichi:

Warachia:

kouriichi:

Warachia:

kouriichi:

Warachia:

kouriichi:

Razhem:

kouriichi:

snip

snip

snip

snip

snip

snip

snip

It's not just me, look at the article we are arguing on, look at other similar forums, hundreds of people (as the escapist is a small group of the large gamer whole) have the exact same issues, you can update consoles and with obsidians grand 0/4 games that worked right for me, OF COURSE I'LL BORROW NV BEFORE BUYING IT. If I borrow something, and it doesn't work, that means it doesn't work for the person I borrowed it from (I checked and it doesn't, he returned it) and I might get the same problem, I work for my money, and because of living expenses I don't have much. I never said that nobody should play the game because I wasn't having a good time, I said bugs should be fixed before release, and funnily enough, people seem to be having more bugs on pc than consoles.

If your argument is going to consist of nothing more than attempting to put words in my mouth because you assume to know what I am saying, go ahead, you can have you bottle, I won't respond anymore.

:/ im not putting words in your mouth.

Im saying your argument is a selfish one. You didnt even purchase the game, and your complaining about it.

Many people do have bugs. But most of them dont care there are bugs. YES THERE ARE BUGS, WE GET IT. So dont play the game, and dont complain about it.

Why are you complaining about it to begin with? You didnt spend a dime on it. You dont own the game and play it every day. Ask your friend what he thinks. Is he still playing it? Is he having a good time?

YOUR JUST PICKY! PICKY PICKY PICKY! You want this game to be perfict. Thats nice. Dont buy it, wait for the bugs to be fixed. Dont sit there like an idiot and bad mouth the company and game because you DIDNT SPEND A PENNY on the game that your complaining about bugs in.

Your arguement is basically, "Im barrowing the game from my friend because i dont want to spend $60 right no, ((the internet pirate's argument, which, chances are if no one pirated theyer past games they could afford to hire more testers)) and the bugs in the game i dont own and didnt pay for are making it unplayable for me because im picky and didnt accually even purchase the game."

I bought the game. There are bugs. OH WELL. i got over it. If there was a problem, i reloaded the game. If it crashed, oh well, i saved my game. Data got corrupted? Oh well. Delete it, and play it again, this time, having more fun because your arnt starting out starke nakid with no concept of direction in the world.

I'll get back to you when you read my argument, $60 can buy me enough food and water for over 2 weeks if used right.

Warachia:

kouriichi:

Warachia:

kouriichi:

Warachia:

kouriichi:

Warachia:

kouriichi:

Razhem:

kouriichi:

snip

snip

snip

snip

snip

snip

snip

It's not just me, look at the article we are arguing on, look at other similar forums, hundreds of people (as the escapist is a small group of the large gamer whole) have the exact same issues, you can update consoles and with obsidians grand 0/4 games that worked right for me, OF COURSE I'LL BORROW NV BEFORE BUYING IT. If I borrow something, and it doesn't work, that means it doesn't work for the person I borrowed it from (I checked and it doesn't, he returned it) and I might get the same problem, I work for my money, and because of living expenses I don't have much. I never said that nobody should play the game because I wasn't having a good time, I said bugs should be fixed before release, and funnily enough, people seem to be having more bugs on pc than consoles.

If your argument is going to consist of nothing more than attempting to put words in my mouth because you assume to know what I am saying, go ahead, you can have you bottle, I won't respond anymore.

:/ im not putting words in your mouth.

Im saying your argument is a selfish one. You didnt even purchase the game, and your complaining about it.

Many people do have bugs. But most of them dont care there are bugs. YES THERE ARE BUGS, WE GET IT. So dont play the game, and dont complain about it.

Why are you complaining about it to begin with? You didnt spend a dime on it. You dont own the game and play it every day. Ask your friend what he thinks. Is he still playing it? Is he having a good time?

YOUR JUST PICKY! PICKY PICKY PICKY! You want this game to be perfict. Thats nice. Dont buy it, wait for the bugs to be fixed. Dont sit there like an idiot and bad mouth the company and game because you DIDNT SPEND A PENNY on the game that your complaining about bugs in.

Your arguement is basically, "Im barrowing the game from my friend because i dont want to spend $60 right no, ((the internet pirate's argument, which, chances are if no one pirated theyer past games they could afford to hire more testers)) and the bugs in the game i dont own and didnt pay for are making it unplayable for me because im picky and didnt accually even purchase the game."

I bought the game. There are bugs. OH WELL. i got over it. If there was a problem, i reloaded the game. If it crashed, oh well, i saved my game. Data got corrupted? Oh well. Delete it, and play it again, this time, having more fun because your arnt starting out starke nakid with no concept of direction in the world.

I'll get back to you when you read my argument, $60 can buy me enough food and water for over 2 weeks if used right.

Yes, i pay the cost of living too. 800 bucks a month in rent, plus food, cable, heating, internet and cell phone.

Thats not excuse to complain about a game you didnt even purchase. :/
"i cant afford the game, so im going to barrow it, and then complain about it because i played it FOR FREE."

Genious!! Your a step forward for mankind! :D Lets all barrow a game, and then tell everyone how bad it was because im picky and let a few bugs get in the way of my good time!

Here. Let me ask you a few simple question. Did you enjoy the game? Did you have a good time playing the game? Was the voice acting, character design, musical choices, and fluid movement all on par with any other game out there?

Sgt. Sykes:

Shamus Young:
If Epic had released Gears of War games that destroyed save files, crashed, glitched out, and suffered from wonky mechanics...

Funny you mention that. One of the biggest problems with Gears of War for PC is that it deletes the save games from time to time. And while it hasn't crashed on me yet, don't even get me started on the wonky mechanics... This game has been lying on my PC for a year, unfinished, because of its stupid mechanics.

You and me both. I struggled my way through the friendly AI taking a nap through half the game, a number of CTD's at random intervals and other assorted bugs only for the game's digital certificate to expire at about the time I got to the last boss. After installing the patch to fix that, I discovered that it deleted my saves. Thanks Epic. Thanks a bunch.

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