The Big Picture: Once Upon a Time in The Future

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Ultratwinkie:

danpascooch:

Ultratwinkie:

technically no. the chemical and gases are so abundant its practically free energy.

Well yeah, it's free.....but it's on the moon.

You do realize it's not exactly cost free to go get it right?

well you do need to invest money to make money. you can't exactly get product for free right? well not legally anyway. the estimated cost for helium 3 would make it more valuable than gold. even a mere pinch of the stuff would be extremely valuable. it may be "expensive" but that cost to get there would be blown away from the sheer value of the product.

That's the thing though, the only thing I've heard is "unlimited energy"

How valuable are we talking here?

messy:
Well we have sequence the Genome but there is still loads we don't know how to do. We still can't make out own enzymes or other proteins, if we could crack the "protein code" as it were all sorts of processes could be done more efficiently. And by make our own proteins I mean designed from scratch where we pick a function we want, e.g break down alcohol, and we design the entire amino acid sequence, make the gene and then grow it in bacteria and have it function in solution. Also sure we can "do GM" but we can get it much better, we can make crops give us vaccines and more vitamins but these are still in the early stages.

We have the potential to even control when crops grow and what triggers them to produce flowers plus seeds. This sort of biology is taking what we have and making it more suited to ourselves. The space thing just seems to be.... hmm not going to well on this planet best be moving on, in my opinion. With the mission to mars etc.

Interestingly the things you are discribing here sound like ways in which space colonisation can be greatly aided...

danpascooch:

Ultratwinkie:

danpascooch:

Well yeah, it's free.....but it's on the moon.

You do realize it's not exactly cost free to go get it right?

well you do need to invest money to make money. you can't exactly get product for free right? well not legally anyway. the estimated cost for helium 3 would make it more valuable than gold. even a mere pinch of the stuff would be extremely valuable. it may be "expensive" but that cost to get there would be blown away from the sheer value of the product.

That's the thing though, the only thing I've heard is "unlimited energy"

How valuable are we talking here?

one crate = worth 10x the amount in pure gold. so one crate of helium 3 = 10 crates of pure gold if not more. however due to UN treaties anything bought back to earth will be divided up and given to each country.

Seriously Bob, you NEED to get over your difficult childhood and your reality escapism issues. How do you expect us to take you seriously like this?

Thanks Bob, exactly what I have been saying to people when I heard all of this was going to be cancled. I am so with you on this.

"Ech"
That was a noise I head a few times. Anyway the "fuck space, help the poor" is an attitude of a favorite author of mine, but I disagree. The advancements we gain from space are invaluable, simply trying to make a space shuttle demands that many other useful advancements and products are created.
We can help people and go to space, they can be the same.

MrhalfAwake:

If we can't assure our immediate needs are met how in the hell do you expect to meet our long term needs.

If everyone thought as you do we would still be stuck in the stone age. The fact of the matter is that scientific advancement occurred throughout history in spite of all the thing that were wrong with the world. The world's problems will persist as long as humans exist. To claim otherwise is criminal in its naivety.

It is mindsets like this that prevent scientific advancement.

I hope everyone realizes that we are now less advanced technologically now than we were 40 fucking years ago? Sure we have all these cool abilities to make our phones smaller and to update everyone we've ever met with details of our inane lives, but we can't even get to the FUCKING MOON anymore.

Every technology we have developed in the past twenty years is absolutely useless in terms of scientific advancement.

Someday we will find the alien women all we need to do now is try 10000 times harder and build an even more badass spaceship.

Cameron Sours:

LondonBeer:

/snip

I think youll find its implied that I am asking the individual to think before typing. I find myself broadening the category of individual to respondees.

Also: Dodgy looking link. You've misspelled scallywag.

I am truly a sad and terrible person. Thank you for enlightening me as to my errors. I shall now go cry in my bathtub till the water turns cold. (Also, the spam detection system detained my comment so I didn't get a chance to test the link [I'll remember to use 'Preview' in future]. Scalawag is an accepted alternative spelling) (Any grammatical or spelling inconsistencies in this post are intensional)

Keep crying theres more to come.

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one to think Constellation's cancellation was a huge misstep. I've been talking about this to anyone who'd care to listen since I heard it. :( le sigh.

What a heap of collectivist BS. Why didn't you just go ahead and call your idea "Manifest Destiny", Bob? 'Cause that's what it was called not too long ago when the "frontier" was still here on earth.

Why does all the responsibility for space exploration get dumped on "humanity" or "nations" like it's their job to finance this crap? You want to go to space? FINE. Front the damn money yourself. SOME of us would be happy if we could have the money you intend to loot off us back so we can AFFORD A DAMN PLACE TO LIVE. I'm not sad to see the space program go, even though I do hope there is space exploration at some point in the future--by people who have learned to understand the real source of scientific progress. But NASA is and always has been the "circus" to the welfare state's "bread".

Vetinarii:

messy:
Well we have sequence the Genome but there is still loads we don't know how to do. We still can't make out own enzymes or other proteins, if we could crack the "protein code" as it were all sorts of processes could be done more efficiently. And by make our own proteins I mean designed from scratch where we pick a function we want, e.g break down alcohol, and we design the entire amino acid sequence, make the gene and then grow it in bacteria and have it function in solution. Also sure we can "do GM" but we can get it much better, we can make crops give us vaccines and more vitamins but these are still in the early stages.

We have the potential to even control when crops grow and what triggers them to produce flowers plus seeds. This sort of biology is taking what we have and making it more suited to ourselves. The space thing just seems to be.... hmm not going to well on this planet best be moving on, in my opinion. With the mission to mars etc.

Interestingly the things you are discribing here sound like ways in which space colonisation can be greatly aided...

I'm not saying biochemistry can't help the space programme, and colonisation. And I'm not saying the two shall never meet. Just this idea that "all our problems can be solved if we get to spaced" I think is personally wrong. My point is that we should try to perfect what we have here instead of just jumping ship. And doesn't it make sense that we should master what we're doing on our own planet before trying it else where?

Archangel357:

JoeyMousepadd:
I don't understand how asking for proof of where Obama was born is racist. You have to be born in the US to be president, no matter what color your skin is.

You could argue that isn't been asked and answered, or is no longer in question. That's fine. Argue that the burden of proof has been met. No problem. But racist for asking? That's just plain lazy. "I don't like that you ask those questions, so I'm going to just call you a racist, and hope that you go away."

Sure, and every WHITE president has had a bunch of mouth-breathers asking whether he was born in Sweden, Scotland, or Croatia.

Oh, wait, that didn't happen.

But the first time a black man takes office, it JUST SO HAPPENS... Sure, buddy. Lemme guess, you start every other sentence with "I'm not a racist, but..."

They were asking John McCain the same thing, and many democrats were doing the same thing with asking for his birth certificate because McCain was born Panama. So it wasn't only one side that was playing the same card. Accusing someone of being racist, is racist too, because it's a conscious prejudgment on one's character. Do you start sentences with, "I'm not a race baiter, but..." Why is it that if one million white people go to a tea party it's a clan meeting, but a million black people and it's a demonstration?

Ok so I've been looking into this after seeing the video... perhaps I'm wrong, but what I saw was that the budget was more moved away from direct space travel, but is still within NASA.

The difference is that they're abandoning the active shuttling into space (which while cool, doesn't bring us much, if anything at this point) in favour of upgrading their technology to do so. Apparently, the technology they're using for shuttles right now is pretty much a remnant of the 50's/60's and as we know quite well, that doesn't really bring us any further into space than a few planets within the Solar system.

After watching the episode I was with you, space program is quite invaluable, but looks like you've got your facts wrong. They're just moving from "hey let's put a man on the moon so he can dance around ans show people he's there" to "let's get down to business and design better shuttles and technology". And if that's the case, sorry, but I'm all for it.

dathwampeer:

Jacob Haggarty:

You are assuming of course that it is they who reach us.

Yes. That's a safe assumption. Because we're a long way off interstellar travel.

No one has ever stated that if extra terrestrial life exists it must be advanced. All they say (and accurately so) is that if they made it here. They're more advanced that we are. There are plenty of fictions about aliens less technologically advanced than we are. Look at 'Alien' For god's sake.

So you essentially just brought up a completely moot argument.

And as flawed as humans are, we arent THAT bad. People again seem to think that we as humans are programed to kill on sight, which simply isnt true. OK as humans we've done bad stuff to each other, but we dont constantly set out to inflict pain or misery on one and other. Have a bit of faith.

And if we found a planet (sometime in the future) full of less developed lifeforms. We wouldn't just pop down to say 'Hiya'. We'd be looking at how we could exploit them. And if we considered them a threat. We'd kill them. This isn't some self deprecating twadle. Just look at how we treat each other. We are ruled by fear and anxiety. It's just good sense if you want to stay alive really.

Also, judging our behaviour is by no means an accurate measure of another lifeforms. What i think you mean is its the easiest to relate to.

Finally I'd like to draw you back to this

We're anything but altruistic and while that doesn't mean that's true for all possible intelligent life. It is a good estimate.

At-least read what I say.

And may i say, thats a very cynical and pessimistic view of human behaviour. Like i said, we've done bad things to each other. Thats a given, and its apparent throughout history. But YOUR not looking at the whole picture; you have chosen to focus entirely on the negative aspects of humans. The way we fight or hurt or berate and belittle. Have you ever stopped to take in the (far greater) compassion we humans share? We have partners, mostly for life. There are only 2-3 other SPECIES that do that. We will stop and care for our ill and unfortunate. NO other animal in the world will do this (except maybe your orangutangs and chimpanzees).

Sounds sappy, but its true. Again, have a little faith. I know that got a little off track, but i get very passionate about humans... which sounds odd.

Listen, i am not going to argue with you about the whys and whats of a potentially COMPLETELY fictitious creature. I think one way, you think another. Good. Problem solved.

joshpahr:

They were asking John McCain the same thing, and many democrats were doing the same thing with asking for his birth certificate because McCain was born Panama. So it wasn't only one side that was playing the same card. Accusing someone of being racist, is racist too, because it's a conscious prejudgment on one's character. Do you start sentences with, "I'm not a race baiter, but..." Why is it that if one million white people go to a tea party it's a clan meeting, but a million black people and it's a demonstration?

Umm, accusing someone of being rascist isnt itself rascist. It may be ignorant, but rascism is something completely (well... not so much if you think about it) different. What you described would be more on par with predjudice.

Just saying...

WoW this episode it was like me talking! Good to hear there are people out there who actually care about the things i do and are not complete morons. Humanity is maybe not completely lost?

The reason why nobdody knows about it is that no news outlet reported it.

I'm just as disappointed as you bob, but do we really need to have people put in space when we have all this crap going on here?

I don't mean "do we really need" as in that we have enough issues, but in that "do we really need people out in space where we can't keep track of them if they decided to do something hostile/stupid?"

Daystar Clarion:
Bad move America, looks like it's up to Britian and the space S.A.S. to discover Prothean technology on mars. Don't worry, we'll share the discovery... for a price.

Hang on, who said anything about sharing. All is for the good of the British empire after all!

Ot: WoW I didn't even no this was happening. Shame I had to hear it through this.

I agree with pretty much everything that was said.

Aren't you going a little overborder man? I mean, space colonialism isnt exactly where our dollars are best spend is it? What positive feedback are the people of the world getting from the moon and mars other than the glory of space exploration. And the idea that anyone who opposes Obama due to racism at this point is a little un-informed I think. And I dont really think Space as the final frontier is a cool idea, yet. I mean American didnt even settle the west until we had the money, time, will, and technology (Affordable technology I might add) to do so. I'm sorry but I think those billions putting a man into space can be used better here on earth. Maybe Europe can take over the space tech and get it ready for bigger national involvement but right now, space isnt where we need to go right now.
And I seriously doubt corporate buisness is going to crew reality show stars to meet aliens, because no one is THAT stupid. We've never sent ambassadors who were celebraties. Actually..we kinda have but that was mostly for goodwill and it actually seems to be good. Give a Michael Jordan signed basketball to the Kim Jong family and they seem to stay quiet for a while.
Look, space is an amazing place, and I'd love to see space colonized and a new empire of technological mastery be achieved, hell I wouldnt even might the interplaentary wars space faring nations might have, but for right now, we just cant do that. Sorry.

all i have to say is that space travel will probably not be possible from one nation alone.
especally not from america given how badly we run our own country.
but i think Gene Roddenbarey may have been trying to tell the answer that could make space travle remotely possible.
all nations working together toward a common goal.
look at Star Trek--first two series at least: both crews are run, not by one country, but buy all. even some crew members are from oher planets.
the point is that everyone thinks in a different way, so where one person will come across a problem they cannot solve, another person might be able to find the solution.
so as long as we work alone, we may never achieve warp drive.

kind of preachy i know, but that is, somewhat, how i see things.

Bob,

I must admit that I am one of the people that had not heard about this until your video. While i don't follow the space shuttle program i've always been comforted by the thought of eventually living on another planet.

The reality is that the space shuttle program was not moving us toward that goal. There is limited benefit in sending astronauts to circle the planet. Most everything that a person can do in orbit can be better accomplished by an ROV.

This is not the end!
The dream of colonization is still alive.

There is simply no catalyst at the moment. All major changes are driven by one of two catalysts.

1. Survival
2. Profit

Until it becomes an imminent concern of survival or we find a way to make it profitable the dream will lay dormant.

Private sector tourist companies will likely get us hotels on the moon in the next 50-70 years. I am both excited and fearful at the thought of corporate homesteading on the moon.

Mining (either profit or survival motivated) is the most likely activity to send us to another planet. Long haul ROV programs designed for gathering core samples is what is eventually going to get a human on another planet. Large scale mining can not be done without a human being present.

-EverydayEvil

so much for kids wanting to be astronauts.

Vrach:
After watching the episode I was with you, space program is quite invaluable, but looks like you've got your facts wrong. They're just moving from "hey let's put a man on the moon so he can dance around ans show people he's there" to "let's get down to business and design better shuttles and technology". And if that's the case, sorry, but I'm all for it.

I'm in agreement with this point. NASA is actually getting an increase in funding with the approved budget. The Constellation program was started by George W. Bush, who told NASA to go to the Moon and to go to Mars, but he didn't give them any more money to do so. That's what the President said, so that's what NASA did, they started the ball rolling on the Constellation program. However, due to trying start up a massive program, while running another massive program (the Shuttles), and while dealing with Congressmen fighting tooth-and-nail for their local space-related industries, the Constellation program pretty much ended up dead in the water.

Shortly after he started in office, President Obama assembled a crack team of scientists and engineers to study the problems at NASA and give him the best options on how to best go forward from where we are. He went with one of their recommendations. Getting to Low Earth Orbit is now in the reach of private companies, so let them do it. NASA has always been better at doing first-class and world-class science. That's what the new budget does. It lets NASA do what it's best at and lets business do what their best at.

Personally, I'm overjoyed that their may be a manned mission to an asteroid. That would be an achievement above and beyond going to the Moon, both literally and figuratively, and it would reward us with a vast panoply of new knowledge.

Battle Cruiser... not operational anymore :,(

You have a very good point, but I'm still one of those people that sees space travel as an expensive hobby. I would love to see where space travel could go, but I also want to see what happens if you made an entire colony of midgets. So, really, it's a wash.

Also, when I look at the sky at night, I don't see stars because I live in the suburbs. Perhaps that's why I don't share your opinion...goddamn industrialization.

we need to go to space. what happend to the human need to explore and to improuve its. since the human condition has been thrown down the drain we might as well kill are selfs because there are quite a few problems threatening to consume are world so sooner rather then being riddled with led or drowned or burned to death or dying duo to a lack of sun light i think i'd choose die quick.

to be honist if i had the choice between liveing on earth or blowing it up for a life of explore the univers starting up colonies for are race and atempting to find sentiant life i would blow up the earth with out hesitation

to bad life was not more like star trek

Bob,
First off huge fan of your work (glad to hear you did not have to work Black Friday and that actual workers do not enjoy working it). Second just want to make a point about how you would choose inhabiting outer space and other planets before world peace. My question is: aren't they kind of connected? I mean do you not need to have world peace and justice and such before you can have good space colonization, travel, contact, and such (a la Star Trek)? I know that in the visions of Firefly and Starship Troopers you do not, but still I kind of believe that space travel, colonization, and encounters with aliens would work a whole lot better if we solved our petty Earth problems like injustice, racism, sexism, and the lot first (again a la Star Trek).
What is your take?

Don't worry Bob. You're not the only one. Though I didn't know that NASA was being disbanded.

I wish humans had some priorities. It's cripplingly depressing how collectively stupid we are as a species. It's almost as if NASA is testament to the idea that all of history's greatest thinkers bear no importance on American life, because fucking Glee is more approachable, or some crap like that.

You know, my whole life (up until very recently)I've always been very antisocial. In moments of introspection, I've always wondered why. Now, finally, I think I know the answer. Humanity sucks. Our species is selfish, vile, petty, shrewd, and I want very little, if anything, to do with it.

You know, maybe America wouldn't be as stunted as it is if we focused on things that actually mattered. There will always be poor. There will always be sick. There will always be terrorists. Can't we focus on things that will enrich our lives for the remainder of our species' existence, like, I don't know, science and education? Apparently not. We've seemed to already have made our choice and those choices make me very sad indeed.

So yeah, believe me when I say I also feel sometimes like I'm the only one in the world who gives a crap.

If we give up our space program, the Russians win.

Come on! Lets give up NASCAR before NASA!!

00m:
I know that in the visions of Firefly and Starship Troopers you do not, but still I kind of believe that space travel, colonization, and encounters with aliens would work a whole lot better if we solved our petty Earth problems like injustice, racism, sexism, and the lot first (again a la Star Trek).
What is your take?

When it comes to "Star Trek," it's kinda difficult to say as "what happened on Earth pre-Federation?" is one of the most frequently-changing parts of the mythology, plus we never really see all that much of Earth society outside of Starfleet and adjacent entities. It's also worth keeping in mind that, while Earth is apparently at peace, part of the reason why is that there are NEW guys to be at war with in outer space. It's the ultimate "yeah but": "The nations of Earth are no longer at war with eachother!" Uh, yeah.. because now you're ALL at war with the Klingons! Or Romulans, or Cardassians, or Borg, or whoever... ;)

In the original series, the "backstory" is VERY thinly-sketched. We're informed that there were at least TWO major world-wide wars in the late-20th and early-21st Century (the show was made in the 60s, keep in mind) that ended in a nuclear confrontation that devastated civilization worldwide and drastically-decreased the human population. Shortly after this, however, we made a breakthrough in spaceflight technology that "qualified" human technological-capability as worth-engaging-with by the standards of other spacefaring alien civilizations; so they made contact with us and... things got real better real fast, basically.

The movie "First Contact" ultimately filled in most of the details. Short version: A guy invented a better spaceship engine for purely selfish reasons (money and scientific self-fulfillment, but MOSTLY the money) and in the process made first-contact with aliens by accident. So, Trek has world peace... but only AFTER two wars wiped out a big chunk of the species and a guy in the middle of what amounts to a nation-sized refugee camp opts to keep tinkering at space-technology as opposed to, say, running a soup kitchen or something ;)

The tricky thing is, there's no real "set" answer as to how the worldwide peace (or, at least, stability) that supposedly exists on Trek's Earth is actually maintained... it just sort of "is." We're told frequently that human culture doesn't have or need money because they've eliminated hunger, poverty, etc., but the "how" is typically vauge. We know that the various scientific leaps forward that came in the wake of partnering-up with more advanced civilizations are what took care of the food/fuel/pollution/disease problems, but exactly HOW The Federation etc. keeps people in line (or persuaded them to keep themselves in line over time) otherwise never quite gets answered.

Bob you're a sociopath. A picture of Mrs. Lovejoy for worrying about children? Really? Here's a few things we might want to work on first. Almost all of them disproportionately affect children. I know space flight programs might result in new technology but it still doesn't seem worth it.

1 The Average Botswanan life expectancy is 39.

2 China has 44 million missing women.

3 One in five people live on less than a dollar a day.

4 More than 12,000 wives in Russia each year are killed in a domestic dispute.

5 Landmines kill a person every hour.

6 Every day one %20 of the worlds population goes hungry

7 30 million African people have HIV.

8 Each week 54 kids from American schools are expelled for bringing a gun into school.

9 Two million girls and women are subject to genital mutilation each year.

10 There are 300,000 child soldiers.

11 There are 27 million slaves.

12 120,000 women and children sex slaves are trafficked into Western Europe.

13 Children in poverty are 10 times more likely to suffer mental illness than other children.

14 The World Bank and IMF have put several countries such as Ecuador in inescapable debt with help and assassinations from the CIA.

15 Brazilian Police officers randomly shoot teenagers. Roughly half the country in under 20 (I think. I have to look up the exact stats.) and a large percentage of them are in gangs.

16 There are 44 million child workers in India, many of which work in toxic or dangerous jobs.

Miscallaneos.
MSG, pollution/birth defects, unexploded cluster bombs and other bombs designed to look like toys or care packages.

You would rather put 12 people on Mars instead of making sure over 1,000,000,000 don't go hungry each day? Get off the internet and stop watching TV. Look at other types of lives.

i was saddened when i heard about it, but i wasnt suprised. this is just another thing to add to the list of stupid decisions made by the government in the last 10-12 years, starting when they impeached clinton for getting a blowjob in office.

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