The Big Picture: Once Upon a Time in The Future

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First I remember Tod Shnit (Probably misspelling his name) talking about this and getting pissed off as well so at least There was one media personality (a radio talk show host) that cared...

Also to the bleeding hearts I have this to say. The reason we have hungry persons is that we have a finite amount of resources. Now let's say we Increased our ability to produce food by I don't know having another planet we would a huge surplus of food and then by contrast should then be able to feed the world. Need a new start, then get your ass to mars. So in conclusion the long term fix for a lot of problems should be space the final frontier.

You know Mars could be the answer to our problems. Maybe we can make more crops on Mars and send them back to Earth to feed the hungry, or maybe we can send the poor and hungry to Mars, and help them their. Or we can send the rich and intelligent to Mars so we don't have to worry about them, and them rebuild on Earth to help the unfortunate.

Who says we have bigger problems then Mars? Maybe Mars can answer our problems! :D

Who knows. :)

I didn't hear a single rational argument here. MovieBob, you are normally reasonable and I watch all your shows, but this was just weird. You came up with no compelling reason to go to space backed up with any evidence. What purpose is there, really, to leave a habitable world and set up camp on a completely uninhabitable one? How is that easier or more convenient or cheaper?What is even accomplished by making first contact with an alien race? The only thing I heard here was "Outer space is cool." There was no reasonable cost/benefit analysis. I was hoping for some argument for space exploration, but there was none here. I think that this idealogical, emotional, and spiritual argument for space exploration has been around too long, and was for a long time a serious problem with our culture. It seems quite out of character for the reasonable, nerdy people that always look at everything analytically to cite manifest destiny as a reason to spend billions of dollars in space.

I agree with everything you said except the choice between peace on earth and cities on Mars. I think that peace on earth would be a much bigger help towards the exploration of space than the small jump colonizing Mars in your lifetime would give us. One of the main reasons money is being taken away from NASA was to fund the war in Iraq. And when we make first contact do we really want to show them the world as it is today? With this political climate? I sure as hell wouldn't and Captain Picard wouldn't either.

I propose that the stall of space programs is a good thing. We did a fine damn job of fucking up this planet so I don't want to imagine what horrible things we're capable of doing to mars or the moon.

Here's to hoping we all die before we can run off to space. We treat one world bad enough as it is and once we spread towards more planets we'll be treating them even worse.

because helping others is communism, you would know that if you had payed any attention to the past two years.

Look at what helped end the great depression, the government created work programs

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

The quagmire that is Earth will never stand a chance to be a place of peace and justice. Mankind's only hope lies in space.

Bob the way I see it is the U.S has one main priority at the moment,that being the War on Terror.
Think of the billions thrown into that and there you have your answer as to why your space program dosen't rate anymore.

And discovery channel decided that reality shows about bike builders, and to dudes with mustached who blow things up are more important than showing actual interesting documentaries showing how awesome space travel is.
dont get me wrong, I love the shows they put on discovert channel. And they show a good number of documentaries on their other channels (like discovery science). But their main focus has become entertainment and not education.

It it sad that the US is taking a back seat to the rest of the world. Our space policy has lost focus for years. Then that is true for long term planning in the rest of the government.

Let's hope we wake out of this dream. I hope the top falls down.

House_Vet:
I'm probably more at the bleeding heart end of the spectrum, but Bob, I gotta say you have balls to stand up for what you believe to be important. Thanks man.

I agree. I personally don't care much for space travel, I believe that we should un-fuck-up the one world we have before we go and fuck another one up.

that's an interesting way of looking at things.

stan573:

ReiverCorrupter:
Ugh. I'd agree with enlightenment values over liberal values any day. I'd place knowledge as a much higher priority than world peace or solving world hunger.

Why?

Because people are going to die. No matter what. Does it really matter all that much? Is the human struggle really just a struggle to prolong our own lives and fill them with pleasurable experiences? I spit on this hedonism that underlies liberal values.

If there is any nobility in human existence it is in our struggle to grow and learn more about the world. If we lose that just so everyone can have their +/-70 years of wretched contentment then I say humanity no longer deserves to exist.

That being said, who cares about space travel? WE CAN'T DO IT PROPERLY RIGHT NOW ANYWAY! WE DON'T HAVE ANTI-GRAVITY OR FASTER THAN LIGHT TRAVEL. HELL WE'RE STILL USING FOSSIL FUELS.

I'm more excited about CERN, genetics, neuroscience, computers and robotics than I am about space travel. It's those things we should be worried about. When I think of all the romantic stuff about the human quest for knowledge I think of a microscope, not a space shuttle.

Oh my god, do you even know what you're saying? NASA is government-funded. Liberals are the ones who push to fund it!

And this is nothing to say of your callous disregard for your fellow human being. I think you're trying to equate 'basic necessities such as shelter' with 'let's all buy each other yachts'.

1) I wasn't talking about the political party. I was talking about the idea that all people should have an equal place in society and that people come first. The vast majority of human beings are completely insignificant. Billions of people have married, had children, worked some job, died and no one remembers their names, or that they even existed.

2) Yup. I do have very little regard for my fellow human being. Look at the potential of the human mind, and then look at what most people do with theirs. If that isn't reason enough to have contempt for them then I don't know what is. I don't care about Africa. I'm more of a social Darwinist (sans commitment to hard genetic determinism of course); if the people of Africa can't take care of themselves, then mother nature dictates that they die. I'd rather spend the resources on intellectual achievements than trying to stop starvation in a continent that is clearly doomed due to its own incompetence.

The rest of the world proved itself perfectly capable of overcoming oppression and at least of forming infrastructures stable enough to provide their populations with the basic necessities. Asia is doing quite well for itself, and they were horribly oppressed as well.

Though I am for helping the homeless in my own country, simply because I do not wish to live in a society that is overflowing with wealth and still allows its people to die in the streets. (No, I am not a hypocrite because I do not believe in a 'world' society or any such nonsense.) However, intellectual research is the LAST thing that should ever be cut in any circumstances, beside the military in a time of war of course (but even then, the A-bomb probably saved us around a million casualties in our war with Japan.)

Think about it. If everyone had always spent resources on improving people's lives and not on intellectual pursuits then we would still be in the stone age. People are always going to have to suffer. Knowledge comes first.

ReiverCorrupter:

stan573:

ReiverCorrupter:
Ugh. I'd agree with enlightenment values over liberal values any day. I'd place knowledge as a much higher priority than world peace or solving world hunger.

Why?

Because people are going to die. No matter what. Does it really matter all that much? Is the human struggle really just a struggle to prolong our own lives and fill them with pleasurable experiences? I spit on this hedonism that underlies liberal values.

If there is any nobility in human existence it is in our struggle to grow and learn more about the world. If we lose that just so everyone can have their +/-70 years of wretched contentment then I say humanity no longer deserves to exist.

That being said, who cares about space travel? WE CAN'T DO IT PROPERLY RIGHT NOW ANYWAY! WE DON'T HAVE ANTI-GRAVITY OR FASTER THAN LIGHT TRAVEL. HELL WE'RE STILL USING FOSSIL FUELS.

I'm more excited about CERN, genetics, neuroscience, computers and robotics than I am about space travel. It's those things we should be worried about. When I think of all the romantic stuff about the human quest for knowledge I think of a microscope, not a space shuttle.

Oh my god, do you even know what you're saying? NASA is government-funded. Liberals are the ones who push to fund it!

And this is nothing to say of your callous disregard for your fellow human being. I think you're trying to equate 'basic necessities such as shelter' with 'let's all buy each other yachts'.

1) I wasn't talking about the political party. I was talking about the idea that all people should have an equal place in society and that people come first. The vast majority of human beings are completely insignificant. Billions of people have married, had children, worked some job, died and no one remembers their names, or that they even existed.

2) Yup. I do have very little regard for my fellow human being. Look at the potential of the human mind, and then look at what most people do with theirs. If that isn't reason enough to have contempt for them then I don't know what is. I don't care about Africa. I'm more of a social Darwinist (sans commitment to hard genetic determinism of course); if the people of Africa can't take care of themselves, then mother nature dictates that they die. I'd rather spend the resources on intellectual achievements than trying to stop starvation in a continent that is clearly doomed due to its own incompetence.

The rest of the world proved itself perfectly capable of overcoming oppression and at least of forming infrastructures stable enough to provide their populations with the basic necessities. Asia is doing quite well for itself, and they were horribly oppressed as well.

Though I am for helping the homeless in my own country, simply because I do not wish to live in a society that is overflowing with wealth and still allows its people to die in the streets. (No, I am not a hypocrite because I do not believe in a 'world' society or any such nonsense.) However, intellectual research is the LAST thing that should ever be cut in any circumstances, beside the military in a time of war of course (but even then, the A-bomb probably saved us around a million casualties in our war with Japan.)

Think about it. If everyone had always spent resources on improving people's lives and not on intellectual pursuits then we would still be in the stone age. People are always going to have to suffer. Knowledge comes first.

You fucking disgust me. I won't deal with this fucking ignorance anymore.

stan573:

ReiverCorrupter:

stan573:

Oh my god, do you even know what you're saying? NASA is government-funded. Liberals are the ones who push to fund it!

And this is nothing to say of your callous disregard for your fellow human being. I think you're trying to equate 'basic necessities such as shelter' with 'let's all buy each other yachts'.

1) I wasn't talking about the political party. I was talking about the idea that all people should have an equal place in society and that people come first. The vast majority of human beings are completely insignificant. Billions of people have married, had children, worked some job, died and no one remembers their names, or that they even existed.

2) Yup. I do have very little regard for my fellow human being. Look at the potential of the human mind, and then look at what most people do with theirs. If that isn't reason enough to have contempt for them then I don't know what is. I don't care about Africa. I'm more of a social Darwinist (sans commitment to hard genetic determinism of course); if the people of Africa can't take care of themselves, then mother nature dictates that they die. I'd rather spend the resources on intellectual achievements than trying to stop starvation in a continent that is clearly doomed due to its own incompetence.

The rest of the world proved itself perfectly capable of overcoming oppression and at least of forming infrastructures stable enough to provide their populations with the basic necessities. Asia is doing quite well for itself, and they were horribly oppressed as well.

Though I am for helping the homeless in my own country, simply because I do not wish to live in a society that is overflowing with wealth and still allows its people to die in the streets. (No, I am not a hypocrite because I do not believe in a 'world' society or any such nonsense.) However, intellectual research is the LAST thing that should ever be cut in any circumstances, beside the military in a time of war of course (but even then, the A-bomb probably saved us around a million casualties in our war with Japan.)

Think about it. If everyone had always spent resources on improving people's lives and not on intellectual pursuits then we would still be in the stone age. People are always going to have to suffer. Knowledge comes first.

You fucking disgust me. I won't deal with this fucking ignorance anymore.

Lulz. 'Moral' people are the easiest to disgusted with those who are 'morally' inferior to them. Seems that now you know something about disgust for your fellow man too. Welcome to the club!

Thanks for reminding me about this and ruining what good
mood I had... This kind of stuff makes me want to just
cryogenically freeze myself for 100 or so years, forget
the costs.

HG131:

House_Vet:
I'm probably more at the bleeding heart end of the spectrum, but Bob, I gotta say you have balls to stand up for what you believe to be important. Thanks man.

I agree. I personally don't care much for space travel, I believe that we should un-fuck-up the one world we have before we go and fuck another one up.

I don't think we're ever going to completely solve all the problems on Earth so why not explore space?

I know your dreams were crushed Bob, but it wasn't realistic or needed. Like that one time I used DNA inside of fossilized sap to bring back dinosaurs on an island... let me tell you some dreams are best left unattained.

Space travel isn't important. That space shuttle is not human achievement, the cure for a disease is. The fact that we still have so many problems on earth like war, starvation, and disease mean we should focus more on that, and not whats happening on mars. By saying we need a space station, a shuttle and a mission, your saying more people in the world need to die.

I'm with you on this one too Bob. I'll take interstellar travel over world peace and an end to human suffering in my lifetime anyday.

Honestly, I think about this often, and it just depresses me more than anything, seeing all sorts of sci-fi things, knowing it could SOMEDAY possibly be reality, and then the depressing realization that I won't live to see it hits me, and I just feel sad.

yoas3:
Space travel isn't important. That space shuttle is not human achievement, the cure for a disease is. The fact that we still have so many problems on earth like war, starvation, and disease mean we should focus more on that, and not whats happening on mars. By saying we need a space station, a shuttle and a mission, your saying more people in the world need to die.

Yes, but unfortunately? Space travel and colonies on Mars are thinking realistically, those are both POSSIBLE. Ending war, starvation, and disease? That's just naive, wishful thinking. Ending war is impossible as long as humanity and the ability to think exist, and starvation and disease are no less impossible to eliminate.

Hate to break it to those of you with bleeding hearts, but its the truth. Some problems can never be solved, and I personally would much rather see us throw money at space travel, than spend that money chasing an impossible to reach goal. Call me a heartless bitch if you want, but its the truth.

for those who have lost all hope: http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/skylon.html

The future isn't in space; it's inside of computers 40-50 years from now when we have reached a technological singularity. boosh.

The sad truth is that ever since humans began settling and banding together after they figured out farming, we have always been at war with each other. It is war that drives us to surpass our enemy. It is war that unifies a divided country inside, and alligns it with others against a common foe. It was war that drove science and technology. Now both are driven by the consumer.

For those of us who read Watchmen, we realize that a common threat will be the only thing that truly unites humanity. It could be an alien race, it could be overpopulation and inevitable loss of resources, it could be the aftermath of WWIII whenever it happens. Either way, nothing short of a common threat that defies socio-economic status, race, religion, gender, political affiliation, age, etc. will truly force us to reprioritize as a species.

"Private" doesn't mean "soulless corporate", Bob. The people that make up groups like Scaled Composites, XCOR, SpaceX and the like are people who feel as you (and I) do, and see the culmination of dreams up there. When the real-life Enterprise gets built, it'll have their fingerprints on it. The idea that the end of government involvement means the end period is just what the big-gov types want us to believe, but private enterprise (no pun intended) are often the quick mammals to government's lumbering dinosaur.

Bob, the reason nobody gives a shit about the space program anymore, is because it's a dead end. Think about the amount of effort it took just to send three people to the moon for a few hours. I love science fiction as much as the next man, but the key word here is 'fiction'. I wish mass effect and star trek could be a reality, but it's never going to happen.

It'll take Corporate Interest cooperation to get us in Space again...

Too bad we'll all be slaves to them for not fighting back against them...

It's all the Multinationals/Corporate Interests/Greedy Wealthy Elite's fault shit like this is going down. and even if we won today, there would still be no money to do this until years and decades of prosperity and progress pass...

everyday, for things like this to better America, No - HUMANITY ITSELF, I shout, "REVOLUTION"!!!

It's very easy to understand where you're coming from but think about it for a minute, ok say the world stops spending money on space exploration for 10 or 15 years ... that's a long time, and alot can happen in that time.
I just think it would be better if the world was in a position where it could focus a majority of our funding into more productive things like space, so think .. hunger, war, disease, economy and all those other issues we really need to focus on right now.

What if in 10, 15 years on focusing on nothing but the problems within our own atmosphere we finally find a way to make things better, If that does happen then not only will we be in a position where we can spend more money than before on space travel/exploration but science would've progressed ALOT in that time ... more theories, better technology, a better overall understanding of physics itself .. we don't know what the hell we'll discover in the next 10-15 years, all i know is that we need to focus on ourselves for a while.

If we send people into space those brave souls are entitled to the worlds undivided attention and support ... because not only are they putting themselves in an extremely vunerable position and risking dying in one of the worst ways possible for the sake of science, but everything they discover won't only benifit their nation .. but humanity as a whole, imagine we sent huge teams into space with funding and support from every nation, Isn't that alot better than sending people up on a budget and deadline? and what if the nation breaks out into war while he's up there? ... who's gonna get him back?

"err ... this is euston, is this the kremlin? ... yeaaaaah ... i was hoping you guys could help me out ... hello?? ... hello?"

You're not the only one, Bob. This one is just depressing.

People who say Britain might do something in space:
Yeah, if we had the money ourselves! Our Space Program consists of a toy rocket with a camera on in idustrial site in Kent! China probably has the better chance than anyone at the moment.

I too still look up at the stars and wonder at the possibilities; and dream about the adventures that are yet to be had out there. However, I do not look up at the stars and "see the future" as you put it Bob, but only cos that's physically impossible-when I look up I see the past because of all the time that's past since that light first started travelling towards my awe-struck eyes. lol
Keep ranting and dreaming Bob-maybe one day they'll send you out into the cosmos (if only to stop you from pointing out their idiocies)

Peace & Love man :)

I agree 100% Bob.

I think the biggest loss was Nasa's ability to inadvertantly invent new technologies which enriches our everyday lives with the backing of government funding, some small commercial examples off the top of my head, re-hyrated foods and memory foam. They could easily patent new technlologies and actually attempt to make a government profitable.

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