Zero Punctuation: Epic Mickey

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HentMas:

Translated:

HentMas:

you make a good point, but "branch wise" the only ones that could take a back lash from this would be "Pixar" wich functions as a "branch" effectivelly covering the name of "Disney", if all goes to hell (this is a very hipotetical reasoning) Disney can blame the "Pixar" branch and close it off, and make sure the punishment goes to them, and they would remain with their public image untouched

Like when Janet Jackson had the famous "wardrobe malfunction" on the super bowl, they cut ties with her and went merrily on their way, leaving the "Disney" immage intact.

I think in this case the differentiation isn't found at the corporate level (where either company, Junction Point or Pixar, could be held up as an "isolated example" if something went wrong). Epic Mickey isn't a product of Disney's core "animation" or "family film" branches and Disney isn't known for their gaming products in the same way that they are known for their films (though some of their games have done fine by the gaming press, such as Aladdin for the Sega Genesis during the 90s to cite a childhood example). In both these cases, however, we can look at Disney more as "publisher" than "developer/creator" here, but in that case we have to do so for both examples.

The difference, as you alluded to with your comment about "the 'Disney' image", is in the use of the company's primary IP. A game that features Mickey Mouse is inextricably linked to Disney in the public consciousness, much as any game that features Mario is linked to Nintendo. You're right: that's an important distinction. It's much riskier to "mess with" the core aspects of your brand than to experiment with a new IP. That's one of the many reasons why purchasing Pixar was so attractive to Disney in the first place: they frequently created market-viable new IP that Disney could leverage. If Pixar had only been interested in making movies based off existing Disney characters, Disney probably wouldn't have been as ready to take a chance.

well, all i have to say or add is that i agree with everything you just said!!

isnt it nice when you find common grownd on the "internetz"? :P

Thanks, I've been enjoying responding to your posts!

Great review, and the dancing imp advert was hilarious!

So the levels look like ass, or more like an unfinished puzzle...balanced on someone's ass?
That pretty much qualifies the game's design as plain bad, which never bodes well for "platformers."

Like I said on another page about Epic Mickey, I think Warren Spector had his "Dark Mickey/Light Mickey" idea, then someone raised a ruckus about it, Spector tried to backtrack but had to release a game on time and that's why the game is made of Epic...Fail because everything else had to be worked on and it ended up being less fine tuned than it should have been.

Oh well, I might still play it, regardless of what Everybody has said thus far.

and if it isn't good, well, we still have Kingdom Hearts and my copy of Mickey's Magical Quest to keep me entertained.

Translated:

HentMas:

Translated:
snip

you are right, Disney is a "company", a "Brand", a "Name" and as such it has to look after it interest the best it can acording to the situation, but latelly they do seem to be more tame, with the sequels they take away a lot of the original elements that could had being considered "controversial"
so in my very personal opinion, i DO can tell that Disney WAS more edgy and dark and catered to make children "Grow", but now they just cater to make children "entertained" and that speaks volumes of a company that with the years has lost its heart in exchange of "safety risks" and "profit".

so yeah, we might not be able to point out a defining momment on the past, but we surelly can point out that right now, what defines "Disney" is profit, and safe investments.

Sorry to respond to your posts in reverse order. :)

If we're going to look at risk-taking in the Disney brand, I think we can see one of the biggest transformations during the 90s. Though the company had already gone through several transformations (first from animation only to animation and live action content and from content provider to content outlet, etc.) the one during the 90s is both readily analyzed and of particular note. There's a great deal of discussion on this in the WikiPedia entry "Disney Renaissance" so I won't go over that too much. I will, however, note that I diverge from some of the points made in that article by saying that Toy Story (released the year after The Lion King) marked a shift in the primary thrust of Disney's business from their own traditional animation to increasingly looking to the outside for inspiration.

We see this not only in the move from traditional to computer animation (both in their own releases and the new ones through Pixar) but also within the content of the traditional animation itself. If we look at (for instance) the use of chins in character designs, we see a transformation from a readily identifiable "Disney look" to one more influenced by other styles. Take the chins in "The Little Mermaid" and compare them to the ones in "Beauty and the Beast" and then jump straight to "Hercules" and you'll see a deliberate choice to go with a different style to compliment the material in the latter, rather than to make the latter "fit Disney". Look at Mulan and you'll see that again. And by "The Emperor's New Groove" you wouldn't have been surprised if someone had told you that it had been designed by another studio.

Now that's not to criticize those films, as that's a separate issue entirely, but rather to show that Disney was changing. Over the next decade, we would see Disney increasingly defined by Pixar's films, the Disney Channel and other outlets rather than by their core animation studio. As a result, the content from their "safer" ventures has come to define the public perception more and more (exempting Pixar). Disney's live-action family films have never been known for their risk-taking and the "non-canon" animated sequels (not my term, just borrowed from the Disney Wiki article I mentioned) or spin-off TV shows have been even less so. That's why even though the Disney TV animation department was more a product of the 80s, that it was only as the core feature film animated brand became less iconic, that this other work has come to be how many people knew Disney.

I'm just barely touching on a much broader issue here, but I think it provides food for finding out more, at the very least.

thanks for the path, i will research further once i have time, but i do understand (after your explanation) that there isnt just "one" disney, but several, and each is more in tune with its own revenue than the other, the movie makers, the live action makers, the cartoon makers, and even the "branch" makers construct the "whole" of disney, and it would be dumb in my part not to acknowledge that each has its own merits and its own flaws...

Lordofthesuplex:

mr_rubino:

Ah, yet another person who is better than us working class schmos who readily agree with anything that talks at us loud enough decides to show up and go on about his awesomeness. Where would we be without you free-thinking radicals to show us that the unpopular opinion is always correct?
Too bad everyone agreed with him in the 3 weeks or so before he wrote this that Epic Mickey was an Epic Fail (Ho-ho, I slay me).

It must suck to be so above it all. You just look like an insulting ass at best, and some kind of faux-intellectual hipster at worst.
(This is kinda like Other M all over again. Stop crying fursecution just because the game is an industry joke and play better games.)

Or how about you take your elitist views on me and stick 'em back up your equally pompous ass. I'm free to disagree with reviews if I want and I'm disagreeing with this one.

And if the game was said to be such an epic fail 3 weeks ago by everyone then why did IGN give it an 8? Why did X-Play give it 5 stars? Why are the only reviewers I've seen that trash this game are GameSpot, The Escapist, and Giant Bomb? Not everyone thinks this game is shit.

And I'm a free radical for not agreeing with everyone who says this game is shit? So I just follow the crowd instead of taking my opinions into play here? That kind of talk is part of the reason I bitch so much about Yahtzee's reviews in the first place.

Tell me a list of better games out there I should be playing then if you know so much better than I do.

Yeah, there's that word again. It seems irony is never in short supply on The Escapist. If you want to enlighten us savages so bad, start from "I understand that the entire world doesn't like this game, but I think..." instead of "You stupid sheeple, don't you understand that..."

Face it: We were promised something, and got pablum. That's not the normal process of a game going from art to development to the shelves. That is a bait-and-switch, or a man "compromising" and completely changing his vision because The Mouse got on him and he focus-grouped the game to death. Your choice.

I can see why you'd trust IGN and X-Play. It's clear where you stand, since you seem to want to defend the indefensible just to run to the aid of this game's failure. You're doing Spector no favors, that's for sure.
See you next week when Yahtzee posts another video, Che! You can show us how wise you are again.
EDIT: Oh, so you did play and like Other M then? Yyyyeah, I thought as much. Just go and do something else. This conversation is going to go nowhere, I can see it already.

shogunblade:

and if it isn't good, well, we still have Kingdom Hearts and my copy of Mickey's Magical Quest to keep me entertained.

Thanks for reminding me of Mickey's Magical Quest. Man, that takes me back a ways. Well, about 18 years to be exact. ;)

I remember wanting to play that game when I was younger and thinking it looked great in the magazines, but never getting the chance to at the time. Maybe I can buy an old copy now.

Boy...I'm surprised Yahtzee and I agree on one point. That point being that Mickey was more epic in Kingdom hearts than in this game. (Rather ironic.) I kinda wish they kept in a few of the post-apocolyptic images like that Cyberpunk Goofy in bad state of disrepair. That would've been a level of dark we haven't seen since The Black Cauldron. (Anyone remember THAT movie?)

Well its nice to see Disney getting called on their complete lack of creative vision; at best they have been a successful distributor for Pixars films, and at worst they've been given a ludicrous free reign to crush and ruin Western animation.

I want Don Hertzfeld in a boardroom with an indie developer who feels fine with some controversy.

Hell, even a missile command parody with Billy's Balloon elements. Just get the indie devs and non-Disney non-anime animators some money to make something NEW.

I have a Disney-Phile for a brother, and when I told him that they were toning down Epic Mickey's apocalypse levels he said "Good, it's not what Walt would have wanted."... I hope he's proud of himself... I really felt like this game had potential but it was all pissed away the second they had to compromise and make it more friendly.

Glad he didn't comment more on Kingdom Hearts.... Fucking love that game ^-^

CrystalShadow:
Wow. You know, given what's already been said about epic mickey...

This Zero Punctuation actually also feels a bit flat and a waste of potential.

I dunno. Somehow this review felt particularly forced and flat. But, what can you really say anyway about a game that's such an obvious disappointment.

Eh, its hard to rip a game a new one, when the game has already been ripped a new one, not much flesh left for there to be ripped down there. Hell, Spector even had to "defend" the game, and when the big-wig name behind the game has to defend it, you know its not going well, and that was weeks ago.

Nice to see I wasn't the only one who thought this was a massive waste of potential compared to the few bits of artwork we saw at the very beginning. Dystopian wasteland of a Disney environment was so much more interesting than the mess we got, and shows clearly that Spectors losing his touch (or was paid for his name only), either way makes me almost glad he isn't attached to the new Deus Ex game.

I busted out laughing so hard when you gave us advise about the "Iron Man" required items to be found at top and if there were at a lower altitude then they would explode Hahahah! Nice review I loved every moment of it especially (Well it's the front cover of the video) you looking back at that Smiling Mickey Mouse being all creepy with his smile. Great review and always impressing me to no end Yahtzee!

In truth I felt the game wouldn't be that good because Disney doesn't really focus on anything anymore, they just delay things to get profit from it. Just my opinion, but stating that it's Mickey with Paint Brushes, how hardcore is it really going to be let alone how "Family Friendly" they've gotten with their ego and all. I could just be imagining this after all...but still they should least make it more dark if not challenging, Kingdom Hearts had some wicked moments in it as well like The End of The World, that was really Dark!

Even though this may not relate to this game, but to prove Disney lost it's focus in kids - They have all kinds of reality shows now. When I use to come over my girlfriend's house to help babysit the reality shows were so stacked up with "Cheesy" and honestly annoying humor the kids seriously had no interest in the shows. They only watched Cartoons which makes sense too!! Gosh Disney lost it's touch, I don't really know how they are even still doing so well but alright. Sorry, hope I didn't offend anyone and if so please just Message me. Yea..

mr_rubino:

Yeah, there's that word again. It seems irony is never in short supply on The Escapist. If you want to enlighten us savages so bad, start from "I understand that the entire world doesn't like this game, but I think..." instead of "You stupid sheeple, don't you understand that..."

Face it: We were promised something, and got pablum. That's not the normal process of a game going from art to development to the shelves. That is a bait-and-switch, or a man "compromising" and completely changing his vision because The Mouse got on him and he focus-grouped the game to death. Your choice.

I can see why you'd trust IGN and X-Play. It's clear where you stand, since you seem to want to defend the indefensible just to run to the aid of this game's failure. You're doing Spector no favors, that's for sure.
See you next week when Yahtzee posts another video, Che! You can show us how wise you are again.
EDIT: Oh, so you did play and like Other M then? Yyyyeah, I thought as much. Just go and do something else. This conversation is going to go nowhere, I can see it already.

All I'm saying is, my opinion is different from the majority's because I actually played the game and found it good. And no, I don't trust IGN and X-Play, those were just two examples. Besides, is any reviewing site trust worthy anymore these days?

Oh and don't tell me the fact that the first few pages of every ZP video is full of people saying they won't play a game because Yahtzee said HE didn't like it is just mere coincidence. I can tell when some people on here are honest with their opinions and are just kissing ass.

And again, I'm not saying that this game gave us the bait and switch because that would apply to every game with year old leaked concept art. I didn't say they didn't tone it down, which they did. (Not as much as some people think but it's still not close to Tim Burton levels of dark)

Oh ho hooooo, good review! I knew this game just looked off from the videos I have seen of it.

OT: As per usually Yahtzee twists something meant to be innocent into something extremely disturbing. I like.

About those postalservice quests. How about someone actually making a game where all you do is deliver mail to people. Everytime you deliver something to a mailbox your character notices something mysterious, making the player believe that theres a larger plot in store. Yet after 8 hours of playtime the postalworker instead goes home since its the end of his workday, leaving the player to experience his biggest anticlimax yet.

Fetch quests -CHECK-
Poor story -CHECK-
6-10 hours to complete -CHECK-
Repetive gameplay -CHECK-
Poor ending -CHECK-

Include great graphics and crap voice acting - Result=BLOCKBUSTER GAME

Well, clearly Yahtzee just misunderstood the game and wasn't playing it right because it's a type of game that has never been done before.. right Warren?

CaptainCrunch:

wammnebu:
im going to have nightmares from that dancing imp for the iphone, thanks escapist

You're welcome. We can also make the nightmares go away - http://www.escapistmagazine.com/subscription/

I'd like to add my own congrats on the advert. It's the best one I've seen for the site to date by an order of magnitude.

why do people keep complain on disney like they made the game? They might have had something to do with the development but most was Warren and his team

XxRyanxX:
I busted out laughing so hard when you gave us advise about the "Iron Man" required items to be found at top and if there were at a lower altitude then they would explode Hahahah! Nice review I loved every moment of it especially (Well it's the front cover of the video) you looking back at that Smiling Mickey Mouse being all creepy with his smile. Great review and always impressing me to no end Yahtzee!

In truth I felt the game wouldn't be that good because Disney doesn't really focus on anything anymore, they just delay things to get profit from it. Just my opinion, but stating that it's Mickey with Paint Brushes, how hardcore is it really going to be let alone how "Family Friendly" they've gotten with their ego and all. I could just be imagining this after all...but still they should least make it more dark if not challenging, Kingdom Hearts had some wicked moments in it as well like The End of The World, that was really Dark!

Even though this may not relate to this game, but to prove Disney lost it's focus in kids - They have all kinds of reality shows now. When I use to come over my girlfriend's house to help babysit the reality shows were so stacked up with "Cheesy" and honestly annoying humor the kids seriously had no interest in the shows. They only watched Cartoons which makes sense too!! Gosh Disney lost it's touch, I don't really know how they are even still doing so well but alright. Sorry, hope I didn't offend anyone and if so please just Message me. Yea..

Disney are still doing some cartoons this day and age

Toeys:
About those postalservice quests. How about someone actually making a game where all you do is deliver mail to people. Everytime you deliver something to a mailbox your character notices something mysterious, making the player believe that theres a larger plot in store. Yet after 8 hours of playtime the postalworker instead goes home since its the end of his workday, leaving the player to experience his biggest anticlimax yet.

Fetch quests -CHECK-
Poor story -CHECK-
6-10 hours to complete -CHECK-
Repetive gameplay -CHECK-
Poor ending -CHECK-

Include great graphics and crap voice acting...

You could call it "Postal:PG" or "Fetch Quest:HD". ;)

Seriously though, the thought of that level of blatent un-realized story development really made me laugh.

Toeys:
OT: As per usually Yahtzee twists something meant to be innocent into something extremely disturbing. I like.

About those postalservice quests. How about someone actually making a game where all you do is deliver mail to people. Everytime you deliver something to a mailbox your character notices something mysterious, making the player believe that theres a larger plot in store. Yet after 8 hours of playtime the postalworker instead goes home since its the end of his workday, leaving the player to experience his biggest anticlimax yet.

Fetch quests -CHECK-
Poor story -CHECK-
6-10 hours to complete -CHECK-
Repetive gameplay -CHECK-
Poor ending -CHECK-

Include great graphics and crap voice acting - Result=BLOCKBUSTER GAME

I hope you're not implying Epic Mickey is underneath 10 hours of gameplay, has a poor story and a poor ending. Cause that just comes to show you haven't even played the game.

Also I have to say that, the fetch quest aspect of this game is heavily exaggerated and a bit of a mask, since this entire game is essentially one big fetch quest of sorts but is just disguised to look like one in order to progress the "go here and finish objective x".

He said pretty much what I was thinking about this game. I saw the early concept art and thought "wow, something decent coming from Disney for once?" But as the years piled on and more information was "leaked" the cracks inevitably began to appear and my over-encompassing cynicism grew ever stronger as more-and-more of the total vapid blandness began to show through those cracks... I'm so tempted to make a simile right about now, but I'm afraid to do so in case I get into trouble for Bogarting Yahtzee's style or something.

Anyway, the point is I had high hopes for this from the concept art but it inevitably turned into a complete pile of wank as soon as the early gameplay footage came into view. I'm sure everyone worked hard when they made this game but it's sad that it didn't turn out to be The Disney Steampunk dystopia I had originally envisioned it to be when I heard about it.

So yeah, I agree that this game reeks of compromise since from what I gathered when I glanced the original concept art; what I thought it would be is probably what they thought it would be, but Disney said no and they were stuck with mediocrity and compromise and a very bland, lifeless game.

I was surprised at how vulgar this review turned out to be. o_O I mean, he has always had vulgar reviews, but this one hit the pedophilia and rape subjects hard.

Not that I'm complaining, just surprised.

k-ossuburb:
He said pretty much what I was thinking about this game. I saw the early concept art and though "wow, something decent coming from Disney for once?" The as the years piled on and more information was "leaked" the cracks inevitably began to appear and my over-encompassing cynicism grew ever stronger as more-and-more of the total vapid blandness began to show through those cracks... I'm so tempted to make a simile right about now, but I'm afraid to do so in case I get into trouble for Bogarting Yahtzee's style or something.

.....how can Epic Mickey be and bland be in the same sentence?

I had a feeling Yatzee would review one of the hyped-up Wii platformers of Q4 2010. I'm kind of disappointed that he didn't review Sonic Colors, but I guess that sequel to Unleashed would be too much of the same shit after the massive sequelitis of AC Brotherhood, CoD Black Ops, F New Vegas, Dead Rising 2, and Halo Reach.

Epic Mickey 2 or 3 might appear in a decade or so for the rat's centennial.

why are the first 3 guys on probation? I get the first guy for his "first" comment but the other two?

I know it's only me but I'd really like Capcom's "Magical Quest" return. I really liked those even if they were pretty easy. And the music in the ice level of the first game is one of my favourite tracks.

Unlike the game, this video was epic. I especially liked "Dull round cake in the middle of something."

This game was so BORING. The most BORING BORING thing in the history of BORING BORING thigns.

Also: WE FINALLY HAD AN IMP HERO!

henritje:
why are the first 3 guys on probation? I get the first guy for his "first" comment but the other two?

Some kinda complex timer system, possibly including lots of gears, pulleys, and water clocks.
You get probation if you comment before watching the video.

So behind the blue ZP background is TRANSPARENCY?
OH GOD THE MYSTERY DEEPENS

Srdjan Tanaskovic:
why do people keep complain on disney like they made the game? They might have had something to do with the development but most was Warren and his team

XxRyanxX:
I busted out laughing so hard when you gave us advise about the "Iron Man" required items to be found at top and if there were at a lower altitude then they would explode Hahahah! Nice review I loved every moment of it especially (Well it's the front cover of the video) you looking back at that Smiling Mickey Mouse being all creepy with his smile. Great review and always impressing me to no end Yahtzee!

In truth I felt the game wouldn't be that good because Disney doesn't really focus on anything anymore, they just delay things to get profit from it. Just my opinion, but stating that it's Mickey with Paint Brushes, how hardcore is it really going to be let alone how "Family Friendly" they've gotten with their ego and all. I could just be imagining this after all...but still they should least make it more dark if not challenging, Kingdom Hearts had some wicked moments in it as well like The End of The World, that was really Dark!

Even though this may not relate to this game, but to prove Disney lost it's focus in kids - They have all kinds of reality shows now. When I use to come over my girlfriend's house to help babysit the reality shows were so stacked up with "Cheesy" and honestly annoying humor the kids seriously had no interest in the shows. They only watched Cartoons which makes sense too!! Gosh Disney lost it's touch, I don't really know how they are even still doing so well but alright. Sorry, hope I didn't offend anyone and if so please just Message me. Yea..

Disney are still doing some cartoons this day and age

Ah, I didn't know that thanks for informing me. It's not really complaining I like to call it ranting XD because I am just fed up with them not giving it their all spite it's not fully dependent on actual Disney Corporations [If they are called by that]. Then they should do something to save their good name and tweak/fix the Game is all.
On the other hand, I know they have some cartoons and that's the good stuff (Which I did list) but mostly Disney Channel, Disney Mornings, Disney Live, ect. are all packed with just reality shows. Even the humor of them dies out because it's the same phony jokes. Actually, in truth most of the reality shoes have no meaning they just have a plain stupid ending to them that's like karma or something, it really gets on my nerves so this game is like putting Cartoons in a bad position. Just my personal opinion.

3rd person vibrant blue piss view? Thats the only reason anyone would buy it.

thepyrethatburns:
Yahtzee brings up a really good point near the end.

How relevant IS Mickey Mouse to kids today? I don't have kids but my brother has three and I don't think I've heard them ever mention Mickey. I don't have the Disney Channel but I understand it has gone from the disney cartoon channel that it used to be to whatever tween drama/star is hot at the time. Outside of Kingdom Hearts, is Mickey really that big a children's icon anymore?

I think Mickey's been replaced by Spongebob.

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