The Big Picture: A Guy Named Joe

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2fish:
Ah yes the generation of no real threat and then the one with everything is a threat. This will be fun to watch. I think we can narrow it down to everyone is your enemy. We should make a galactic empire if only to have a fun enemy.

HankMan:
Bob I'd say you've found your place alright.
Also: This world DOES seem to be lacking in the super villain department, especially now that Cheney's out of office! =D

No worries I understand he is cloning himself and building a volcano base ;)

Did you know that for a short period over the summer Dick Cheney actually didn't have a heart-beat! It's tried to kill him so many times that the doctors just removed it from the equation and installed a machine to generate a constant blood flow.

So, what this episode told us is, find your own place in the world and don't base it on cartoons or action movies.

...

Who wasn't already doing that? Since when are "Behind the remote" or "killing the russians" the only two places in the world?

I really don't see what he was trying to say here.

Therumancer:

On a lot of levels the problem is your dad's day (so to speak) rather than your grandfather's day. His toys were pretty much made by his grand-dad's generation. Consider that "Dad's" generation were the "make love, not war" generation, who had no sense of national duty, dodged the draft (as opposed to seeing it as a responsibility), and even if the wars at the time were a mess took things to an absolutly ridiculous level in opposition because none of them wanted to get shot at. "Dad's Generation" pretty much defined itself by tearing down society in favor of what it wanted at the moment, and while some good did come of it, a lot more problems occured. There are a lot of sociologists who believe we pretty much face the task of needing to rebuild our society after the US Baby Boomers, and it remains to be seen if the current, indoctrinated generations (given how long they lived, there is more than one, Gen X and Gen Y) can throw off a lot of the propaganda and get things back on track.

My father was a hippie in the 60s and I have had this argument with him more than once. I called him and his generation out for being anti Vietnam war and free love just so they could avoid the commitments that those things would entail. He told me it was to stop the "killing of innocents" in Vietnam and for the Feminists in the US respectively.

Really Bob I thought GI Joe the term was coined from a marine( I cant Remember his name atm) on Guadalcanal who dual wielded two browning 50mm Machine guns and single handedly held one part of the breaking 1st marine line at a critical battle on said island.

Granted, this episode fits well in a series called the big picture.

Scrumpmonkey:
**Ahem**

"I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off"

The more Nhilistic responce to the same problem,

infact a better quote would be;

"I can't get married - I'm a thirty-year-old boy"

well said man....I can think of no way to add to that

Thespian:
So, what this episode told us is, find your own place in the world and don't base it on cartoons or action movies.

...

Who wasn't already doing that? Since when are "Behind the remote" or "killing the russians" the only two places in the world?

I really don't see what he was trying to say here.

You make a strong point for the idea that culture and environment don't have any kind of effect on people. All people have always simply ignored what they were being told by television, books and movies and found their own place in the world with complete freedom and no pressure.

I think you're a little too hung up on the fact that he was talking specifically about G.I. Joe, when he was using G.I. Joe as a symbol for a wholesale cultural shift.

Good to see a change from ranting about comics and how you hate first person shooters to something much more relevant and thought provoking.

Scott Pilgrim still sucked and there is still a reason it bombed.

I shall put an advertisement on Craigslist.

Looking for Super villain. Must be ready to destroy the world only to be thwarted in a blaze of glory by heroes.

Needs filler.

Aphroditty:

You make a strong point for the idea that culture and environment don't have any kind of effect on people. All people have always simply ignored what they were being told by television, books and movies and found their own place in the world with complete freedom and no pressure.

I think you're a little too hung up on the fact that he was talking specifically about G.I. Joe, when he was using G.I. Joe as a symbol for a wholesale cultural shift.

Mhm, I see your point. I think, I might be reading things weirdly again x_x
Anywho... I do believe that culture and environment have an effect on people. A rather large one, I'm sure. It's just that he spent quite a long time talking specifically about GI Joe, or at least about military aims. My point is, if he had spoken about, as you said, a wholesale cultural shift, I'd understand, but what he seemed to be saying was that he was no longer being told who to shoot at. I didn't see how it linked in with his place in society.

Porkchop Sandwiches !

I kinda disagree on topic of masculine strength. It wasn't a cultural necessity of times long past, but rather byproduct of the world we used to live in. The man was shaped be the world surrounding him.

And what do we have now ? Being handsome and well built is also a cultural necessity, and so people strive to fit in that modern standards. Which is sad.

AgDr_ODST:

Scrumpmonkey:
**Ahem**

"I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off"

The more Nhilistic responce to the same problem,

infact a better quote would be;

"I can't get married - I'm a thirty-year-old boy"

well said man....I can think of no way to add to that

Well David Fincher is a fucking genuis so thank him, Fight Club (in case someone didn't get the reference) i think is the ultimate examination of what it means to be a man in the infomation age, everything from the obsessive buying of sterile Ikea furniture, to his inability to relate to Marla to people just simply beating the shit out eachother is so laced with meaning and so well pitched it almost hurts.

I also think "The Scoial Network" is a suprisingly good investigation of modern manhood in the way it shows the breakdown of peoples literal social networks in the face of the seemingly unreal sucess of the second .com era. Whether your male ego is based on brawn of brains it can still get in your way. Being a man, nevermind a sucessful man, has never been such a struggle or so ill defined.

You know I never looked at it that way. Maybe I should see Scott Pilgrim after all. Is it out on DVD yet.
This video hit really close to home for me. Here I'm 29 years old and I'm struggling to figure out where I fit in the world. Like I said, maybe I will have to see Scott Pilgrim after all.

canadamus_prime:
You know I never looked at it that way. Maybe I should see Scott Pilgrim after all. Is it out on DVD yet.
This video hit really close to home for me. Here I'm 29 years old and I'm struggling to figure out where I fit in the world. Like I said, maybe I will have to see Scott Pilgrim after all.

It's even out in the UK now. Go buy it. Now XD. Or at least watch fight club if you haven't already.

I used to come here for Zero Punctuation, but now i only come for Bob. Seriously every time i see one for these videos i feel like ive learned something.

"Do people really have this hard a time figuring out what to do with their lives? Is being a man really decided upon how many bad guys you can punch in the face? I've never had an issue knowing what I'll do with my life, but this has given me a fair bit to think about."

I agree with this. It seems the central question is, "what is today's definition of a 'real man'?" In many ways, a real man is the same thing it has always been. Still provide for and protect the ones you love. Being fair, thoughtful, wise, considerate. None of this has anything to do with punching bad guys in the face (unless they are attacking something you love). I don't understand why people bemoan the "loss of manhood" when it is still here and always has been, always will be.

Thespian:
So, what this episode told us is, find your own place in the world and don't base it on cartoons or action movies.

...

Who wasn't already doing that? Since when are "Behind the remote" or "killing the russians" the only two places in the world?

I really don't see what he was trying to say here.

exactly.

Pugiron:
Scott Pilgrim still sucked and there is still a reason it bombed.

I agree with this. i understand that it is a coming-of-age story and the lead character grows up in some ways, but that movie sucked.

My generation of GI Joe has Sienna Miller and Rachel Nichols in skin tight leather... how about that one eh bob?

I think now i understand americans much more, thank you bob!

Scott pilgrim = best movie ever.

Seqgewehr:

Therumancer:

On a lot of levels the problem is your dad's day (so to speak) rather than your grandfather's day. His toys were pretty much made by his grand-dad's generation. Consider that "Dad's" generation were the "make love, not war" generation, who had no sense of national duty, dodged the draft (as opposed to seeing it as a responsibility), and even if the wars at the time were a mess took things to an absolutly ridiculous level in opposition because none of them wanted to get shot at. "Dad's Generation" pretty much defined itself by tearing down society in favor of what it wanted at the moment, and while some good did come of it, a lot more problems occured. There are a lot of sociologists who believe we pretty much face the task of needing to rebuild our society after the US Baby Boomers, and it remains to be seen if the current, indoctrinated generations (given how long they lived, there is more than one, Gen X and Gen Y) can throw off a lot of the propaganda and get things back on track.

My father was a hippie in the 60s and I have had this argument with him more than once. I called him and his generation out for being anti Vietnam war and free love just so they could avoid the commitments that those things would entail. He told me it was to stop the "killing of innocents" in Vietnam and for the Feminists in the US respectively.

Well, nobody will say they are wrong on something like this, like anything, very few people decide to do something because they think it is wrong.

The problem with the Hippies, and most of the generation of the 1960s was pretty much an attitude of entitlement. Things were working smoothly at the time, their fathers were going to step down due to age, and be replaced by their children, unlike Gen X which was "skipped" due to the increasing lifespan that in part has defined the baby boomers (ie still remaining capable of working and holding jobs, expecially important ones, at the time their children came of the right age where they should be replacing them). The Baby Boomers pretty much figured there was no real reason to work for the sake of working. They pretty much just wanted to live off the success of their parent's generation and wallow in decadence. Sex, Drugs, and of course a general belief that the laws were useless and nobody should have to follow them were all defining attitudes at the time.

It's also noteworthy that Mcarthyism in the 1950s did have some legitimate points about the influance of Communist propaganda in the USA. Those general ideas of communal living, wound up becoming a big part of 1960s youth culture. Even today you'll see a lot of people from that generation talking about how Communism isn't a bad system, even if less naive than they were in their youth. The attitude at the time was very similar to the one held by a lot of Russians during their revolution, that somehow after the revolt everyone could relax, live their own way, and somehow magically be taken care of with it always being someone else who did the hard work to keep everything running. In this case the idea was maintained by their father's generation maintaining a pretty signifigant infrastructure.

There is some legitimacy to the bit about killing "innocent people" but only in so far that innocent people always die in wars (that is why they suck). A guy raised in a foreign country under it's idealogy really has no chance to wind up believing anything else. The majority of people who die in a real world are people who have done nothing wrong except embrace the idealogy they were raised to, though when things go far enough for a war the idea is to kill those ideas and thus the people who hold them are themselves the target.

To some extent the generation before the Baby Boomers did their job too well with propaganda about "World War II" and selling it as a "good" war after the fact. People tend to overlook that the Nazis were a hugely popular international movement, not a tiny minority group of germans who somehow managed to be omni-present. We bombed factories, schools, hospitals, and other things as well as killing entire towns to break the nazis in the end. Groups like "The Volkssturm" and "Hitler Youth" didn't evaporate, we killed them all off. It's just we don't bother to put the pictures of the corpse piles we made and talk about what bastards we were in order to win in our historical records.

The bottom line of the wars during the time of the boomers was that there was little propaganda being used. The wars were also being fought under the pretensions of protecting democracy... or basically democratic countries asking the USA for help since we promised we'd grant it. The Baby Boomers, already leaning towards the far left really saw little wrong with communism (or at least as they understood it, I'm not going to rant about the systems since this is long enough), and also didn't want to give up their decadence to go get shot at in a jungle. The biggest issue of course being that nobody wants to fight, and the boomers used every trick they could muster and any half arsed justification they could form to try and derail the war effort and avoid having to go. They *DID* shirk their responsibilities, even if they understandably don't want to view it that way. "Sorry dood, I'd rather sit here and get stoned than go fight in a jungle"... well duh, who wouldn't.

To be fair however, Veitnam in paticular shows the failing of the USA's "world police" mentality since we really didn't research who we were going to defend. While it's a great simplification, the bottom line is the guys we were protecting had no desire of being a progressive, democratic society (and never were one to begin with), and really the only way we were going to achieve the stated goal (A Democratic Veitnam) we would basically have had to blow the entire nation back to the stone age, and then rebuild the remnants from the ground up. There was literally nothing that should be achieved in the region. Wiping out the Veit Cong wouldn't have accomplished much of anything since 'Nam would still be an oppressive hellhole, it's just there would be a lot more bodies. Also to be entirely fair it's a war that we dragged out far longer than it should have been, despite knowing we couldn't "win", largely because of the money that was being made due to being on a wartime footing.

Veitnam being a messed up war does not justify the Boomers dodging the draft, and doing all the things they did. If you want to get technical Hitler was hugely popular in the US (an international man of the year) and there was strong isolationist sentiment in the US besides. Simply put people didn't want to fight World War II either, both because they didn't want to get shot in other countries, and also because a lot of people just didn't see anything wrong with Hitler's philsophy. The way wartime propaganda transformed the US is a big part of what made World War II what it was (and since that war, people seem to have forgotten the lesson). Simply put Pearl Harbour was the big incident that drove the USA into the war, largely by convincing the goverment that it had to be done, it then instituted war powers and used them to propell the nation into the war whether the people wanted to go or not. We wrote the history to make it look like people were volunteering by the droves right of the bat, but that's hardly the case. That kind of thing DID happen but mostly once the propaganda got in full swing.

At any rate, this is long and rambling, the point here is that I have little respect for the Baby Boomers, especially seeing as a lot of them sold out in a big way despite all the principles they claim... which were pretty much just there to justify whatever they wanted to do at the time. That means having a negative opinion of a lot of things my own parents were involved in... but that's simply how things are.

The only real positive legacy that came from the boomers was some of the civil liberties victories that were going on at the time. Although some sociologists have looked at things pragmatically and wondered if the Boomers actually helped, or were something the movements (which was already going) succeeded at despite their existance/involvement.

The reason being is that when you look at some of the stunts the left wing has pulled in elections, like the whole "Elephants against Republicans" thing or the "Naked Truth about Bush" protest (nude/body paint protest) fairly recently (Bush's last election that he won), and consider that this was mild compared to some of the thing Boomers pulled in the name of combatting racism and/or sexism back then, it's a miracle anything positive happened. See, despite being "cool" to some, the bottom line is that the majority of people look at carnival garbage like that on serious issues, and tend to want to instinctively oppose anything that those people support or stand for on principle. A point some analysts made after Obama's election was that part of his 7% lead was probably because you actually saw a lot less of this garbage (though it still happened) since the Demorats were enforcing a lot more disapline and closing ranks to end party dissent.

Civil Liberties victories are a nice legacy, but the point is I question it since it was still their parents generation in power and making most of the desicians. Above and beyond what you might think now, at the time a bunch of hippies running all over the place being rowdy and bizzare might not have actually helped.

You forgot to Mention that Burgess Meredith was not only in the 1945 Story of G.I. Joe but voiced Globulus (Ruler of the Scret reptillian nation of Cabro-la) in the 1985 G.I. Joe the Movie based on the animated series.

This episode I seriously enjoyed as it focused on generations and the concepts of masculinity and a person's place is society.

Keep making episodes like this and I think it will be a success.

(This will be about America, I live in America so I know what went on here. Sorry for not being multi-national, but I didn't live anywhere but here)

The 1980's GI Joe influenced a generation of young people in more than just patriotism (which it did) in that the characters were so different from each other. There were so many specialists that you could find a character who interested you and you could learn about the real world aspects of that specialty. Lets say you liked Dial-Tone or Breaker, you could learn more about telecommunications or hell, you thought the B.A.T.S. were cool so you decided to learn more about robotics.

Do you know how many of today's weapons, electronics and other innovations were created because of someone who played GI Joe and thought that implementing it into the real world would be a good thing to do?

And yeah, this might not be a big thing now (which is kind of funny considering how far away from "A Real American Hero" they are trying to go from the 80's with the newer Joe stuff) but during the time that GI Joe vs. Cobra started (1982) we were still in the cold war so patriotism was a big thing. You say Communism was on it's last legs and that is true, but it didn't stop us from thinking Russia might still launch against us. You can't erase the seven years between the debut of JvC in 82 and the fall of Communism.

Really, if you want to discuss GI Joes impact on America, you need to get out of your hugbux with the Scott Pilgrim love pillow, off of Wikipedia and and learn about and read interviews with Larry Hama who is pretty much the father of GI Joe.

There's a lot more to the story of GI Joe than what you interpret it to be and it seems like you did this episode just to be able to once again whine that more people wanted to see a fun action film than a Generation Me hipster romcom.

rokkolpo:
What the hell, I just saw rise of cobra 5 minutes ago.
How....peculiar.

What are you doing pointing out the elephant in the room for? I was expecting him to bring that up but I'm glad that he did not.

OT: I agree with a few people on here in saying that CoD and Halo and BC2 ARE our generations G.I. Joe. NOT because they specifically inspire kids to join the army. but because... well, think about what Yahtzee said in his Black Ops Review.

85% of modern first person shooters are about what? Invading the US (earth, if you're Sci-fi). I'll probably incur flame for this but: our generation of "GI Joe" is just the US sitting on it's high horse making itself out to be the innocent nice guy that all the heartless villains love to hate/invade. THAT is what young americans are being taught now. before it was "unconditionally hate Nazis/Communists/(okay i'll admit i don't know what mine and Bob's GI Joe taught)"
Now it's: "We're the good guys, and the world HATES us for it. So prepare yourself"

If I'm way out of line..... I don't care. This NEEDS to be said.

For MovieBob.
image

Therumancer:

This kind of mentality has given birth to a situation today where we can't clearly identify a culture like that of The Middle East as an enemy, rather we need to take a reactive perspective and only target very specific individuals like those ACTIVELY engaged in terrorism rather than the core issues. The same could be said about China, or anyone else. Unlike previous generations where the media was making no bones about treating our enemies as enemies, and suggestiong violence and military action as a method of dealing with them, today the message is a naive one where violence is always wrong, there are always magical solutions that will arrive to avoid large scale violence, and worst of all is identifying an entire broad group of people as the enemy.

Today's mentality is one where we would not go to war against "Nazism" if it was to rise the same way. Rather we'd make a big deal about only opposing those guys at the top of the food chain, and misunderstanding the huge, international culture, with the fanatical millions behind it, we would of course wind up getting our tails kicked. It says a lot when you consider that people have made arguements that Patton was unworthy to wear a US uniform by modern standards because you know... he made no bones about wanting to destroy the enemy.

The point is a society that won't let you identify the bad guys as bad guys, and does everything in it's power to avoid confrontation, or at least confrontation on the level of a "total war", "us or them" level which would actually see a resolution.

Such are my thoughts.

So, you're suggesting we commit cultural genocide just because a few random extremists are being assholes? That's like wiping out christianity because of the Phelps family!

Being the enemy, as you say, all the works that were produced from the Middle Eastern culture, all the art and cities you'd need to burn down, not to mention the Millions slaughtered. We also might as well fore go all the inventions from the Middle East and deem them evil. To top it all off we should see if the pope is willing to back our conquest, just to prove how much we didn't fucking learn from history!

Therumancer, I see you as a natural born cynic that can only trust people as far as you can spit, but you're to smug about your self to ever excrite any bodily fluid. You need to learn that people are all rather fine, but they can occasionally be assholes. The only reason that Nazism and the Taliban ever came to power was because people were fucking afraid of those insane assholes, all we need to do is give people the power to stop extremism and they will.

Armored Prayer:

LadyRhian:

Armored Prayer:
This was great episode, in fact some points felt inspiring.

I just thought of something interesting though. You mention each generation's version of G.I. Joe and I though "whats this generation's version?" The first thing that came to mind was military FPS like CoD, and how popular it was for both men and boys. Its like the old G.I. Joe what with being about real life soldiers and special forces except its an interactive game. Maybe thats one of the reasons its so popular.(besides being a great game)

Try not to take most of this seriously. Like I said its just an interesting thought I had.

But do the kids who play the game aspire to be those soldiers? Does playing the game make them want to be one when they grow up? That is why I don't think it holds the same kind of place as the other G.I. Joes. It's easier to pwn n00bs in COD than it is to become a real, honest to God soldier or member of the special forces. And that's why most people would rather just play the game.

Well for the question I don't see why not. I've come across a few people who after playing the games were interested in joining the military. Of course you have a good point about the games being easier than actually becoming one, and I bet many players would rather play a game about the military than become part of it.

A lot of people who played with Action figures didnt join the military. I bet ya as many folks playing Computergames (Since its mainstream now) joined the Military as those who played with Action Figures.

Remembers me what was shown in the "Up" review.

Well that series are renamed to "random rambling" for me.

The more you know...

Hmmmmm . . . interesting take of how we must choose our own place in life. Of course one could paradoxically argue that since we must choose our place in life we really don't have a place in life.

As A man of the generation after yours the only thing I had to aspire to, other than fictional characters on tv, was my father, a man of the generation before yours.

There is a standard of manliness that all men are expected to aspire to, regardless of station or status, of course if I start explaining what it is I'll be dismissed as a out-dated Christian fool.

Thank you Movie Bob.

That was an insightful look at what it means to be a man in this day and age. though a bit depressing that our lives will never inspire myth or legend it is comforting to know it okay to live a life of meh. This will not do for a 30 something year old male who's been spoon fed testosterone driven male role models on a rampage of righteousness against the force of evil or otherwise.

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