DC Universe Online

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DC Universe Online

Shamus has serious misgivings about DC Universe Online.

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Agreed.

MMOs based on a subscription must be about ownership.

Players must feel they own their characters. They have to be able to design exactly what they want, or the character doesn't feel like on they created. It feels like one they're renting.

The same goes for playstyle. If you can't engage in the activities you like, even if that's just beating up random guys for hours on end, you're not crafting an experience for yourself. You're borrowing an experience from a short list of pre-fab experiences.

When people feel like they are renting or borrowing something, they'll always be acutely aware of the cost. And if there's a cheaper (but equivalent) option available, they'll always take it. With the rise of mainstream free-to-play games, subscription-based games can't get away with this crap anymore.

You know, I keep wanting to be interested in the latest capes-and-cowls game to come down the pipe, but my brief experience with Champs made me appreciate City Of all that much more... and from the looks of things, I wouldn't enjoy DCUO for very long at all.

Le sigh. I love City Of, but I'd ALSO love to see someone really come along and take it to the next level. And not just in terms of Oooh Shiny Graphics.

DC Universe Online is out already? Why did nobody tell me?

To the game cave!

... or not. You have some pretty strong negative points there.

Shame, I was hoping that it would be good.

And restricting quests to certain classes? Thats just stupid.

EDIT: Seems it may be a bug, or something.

I'll admit i was never interested in this game, especially not with it being released so close to the F2P Champions, and it seems i made the right choice not buying it, if, or rather when it goes F2P i might try it out, from what i have seen in reviews and screen shots gotham city looks awesome, but i dont feel like paying that much just for the few hours of fun flying around gotham, maybe if they introduced a just cause 2 method of moving around, cause i loved the travel system in that game but found the world to be a little boring.

I'm not here to say you are wrong Shamus. I'm here just to point out a few things I noticed myself.

1. Combat: Agreed. It is not rewarded killing mooks. What I have noticed is that if you at least knick a mook needed for a quest you still get it. For example, if 4 people pummel on a mook and a 5th one comes in when it is nearly dead everyone gets the completion for the mook.

2. Cosutme: Yes, at the start you do lack costumes and get more later on. What you also get to do is to lock in any costume piece you get. In short, if you started looking like a man-bear-pig, you can still look like the exact same manbearpig with better gear at level 20. You can also change the color of your costume at any time, your hair (if unlocked) at any time, and costume look at anytime.

3. Agreed. Not enough powers. I never played champions online myself, but I personally do enjoy what I have now in DCUO.

I'm not here to say to play the game. I just wanted to put in my own view, nothing more.

I agree with essentially every point he had. That's a rarity. I'm enjoying the game, but probably won't renew my subscription past the second month. Maybe not even the first, if the buggy issues they have don't get fixed in a reasonable time.

Irridium:
Shame, I was hoping that it would be good.

And restricting quests to certain classes? Thats just stupid.

Wait, what? Where did you find this out? To my knowledge I have done quests for Circe, Lex, and Jokers starter quests from one character. But i'm at level 10, but others at higher levels say you still do quests from each.

1. Combat is not rewarded

This doesn't really matter, as it is as you said a design choice... once you get that you can only level doing quests you should be fine, hitting mobs is still useful for some things, like recharging your "Power Meter" for those Special Attacks...
Not only that, but doing ALL quests is kinda helpful, if not mandatory as Quest XP scales with Level e.g. if you got to 18 and still got some Lvl8/12 quests they give you as much XP as your currently "new ones" and are a lot easier to do.

2. Lack of Costume Pieces

It has one of the largest "selection of costumes" in any game as far as I can tell and certainly surpasses almost all classic "fantasy MMOs" in that aspect... you get only a basic palette (which is large enough as is) during character creation, but you unlock over 350+ new outfits in the game... even entire "armor suits" of known villains and heroes like the Joker or Harley, Queen Bee etc.
It's also great that you can "lock" your costume in place so the look doesn't change from level1 to 30...
I do agree with the "on account basis", thing is though that collecting "Feats" adds to the Skill Points of your character... by collecting all the Feats in the game with one character you will get ~70 or so Skillpoints while the people that don't do them hang around with 20-30, if you want to finish "optimizing" your character you'll hunt em down someday.

The REAL problems I see with the game are two:

1) It doesn't have any in-depth tutorials, tooltips or help anywhere explaining what all the stuff does, so you'll either have to learn by experiencing and trial&error or talking to people or browse the forums... hell there's even very large threads pertaining to that cause the game doesn't even tell you how to use the chat anywhere (if it is working at a certain point that is...) like this one: http://forums.station.sony.com/dcuopc/posts/list.m?topic_id=4988

2) As you said, the game doesn't have enough content, you get a char from 1 to 30 in about 24-30 playing hours (which might depend on the playstyle of any given person..., some people that play it very "casual" might take 1-2 months, others will be done in 2-4 days (in fact a lot seem to be already)... even some SinglePlayer games like Dragon Age or Kings Bounty, Fallout 3 etc. offer 80+ hours of playtime and this is an MMO e.g. it is supposed to engange people long-term so that they continue paying their monthly sub, getting to endgame that quickly and only having raiding for gear and queuing for PvP or farming Feats left to do won't do that job and if they don't do something fast it'll be like a ghosttown a few months from now.

To add to that... even when rolling another faction e.g. Hero or Villain most of the quests are just recycled and you play them from the "viewpoint of the other side" e.g. same quest, same buildings, same collect this or kill that only with slightly different enemies or bosses (if that, some are even exactly the same...).

Negatempest:

Irridium:
Shame, I was hoping that it would be good.

And restricting quests to certain classes? Thats just stupid.

Wait, what? Where did you find this out? To my knowledge I have done quests for Circe, Lex, and Jokers starter quests from one character. But i'm at level 10, but others at higher levels say you still do quests from each.

His blog. Although in retrospect it seems rather silly that I responded to it here...

My inner fanboy wants this game to be SOOOO good. I like an MMO that you can run solo or occasionally group with friends, I hate forced grouping, it's obnoxious, especially on a brandy new MMO's.

My buddy plays it, said it's really good. And I read on MMORPG.com that the time to get to the level cap is at least 40 hours. Just because there are top level characters out there now doesn't mean they did it in 20 hours. I figured people who beta tested got to bring their characters in. My only concern is how the PVP is. No one has even mentioned that.

There is no reason they couldn't add more costume pieces with each new monthly (as it stands now) update. With the new content could be more level caps, definitely more instances/dungeons. If you can't get new gear, it's stupid to even make new instances.

As far as the combat goes, it's supposed to be fun. Most MMO's have shitty combat. Usually, stand there and hit a number key.

I saw an interview with the lead designer. He very specifically said he wanted to make a game based off the DC Universe license that was fun to play with your friends, not a great MMO.

I'm completely on the fence about this game, I want it to be good. But, I'm not gonna run out and buy a game that may shut it's servers down in a month from now.

On the other hand, I usually only play any MMO for about 2 months tops. I also look at it this way. If I get 50 hours out of a game for $50, that is more than I got out of God of War 3 for $60. This can be said for Gears of War, Resistance and Killzone games.

Thank for confirming it since I was thinking the same thing when I saw the character creation videos. It just looks limited compare to Champion Online version.
I also don't like the whole mentor thing (the powers routes that your characters will follow like batman is for gadget people). My reason from what I saw (video trailer and demo) it was only Superman for meta, Batman for tech and Wonder Woman for magic, what if I made a bow and arrow theme hero and who is best fitted to mentor my character no other than Green Lantern? Also would Zatara would be best suit to mentor other magic base heroes then Wonder Woman.

A work colleague was going to pick this up today for her fiancÚ, but when she found out about the subscription charge even for the PS3 version she was immediately put off.

Irridium:

Negatempest:

Irridium:
Shame, I was hoping that it would be good.

And restricting quests to certain classes? Thats just stupid.

Wait, what? Where did you find this out? To my knowledge I have done quests for Circe, Lex, and Jokers starter quests from one character. But i'm at level 10, but others at higher levels say you still do quests from each.

His blog. Although in retrospect it seems rather silly that I responded to it here...

And to be fair, I had only discovered it when I wrote that post. I'm still not sure how it works. I just know I went to Metropolis and flew around, but nobody would give me quests. Perhaps it was a bug?

Dexter111:

1. Combat is not rewarded

This doesn't really matter, as it is as you said a design choice...

It sort of matters. Of its two competitors (which are City of Heroes and Champions Online - this game is not competing with Behemoth Fantasy World of MMOCraft, or its copies), one follows the DCUO path of not rewarding combat while having (supposedly; my opinion differs from the apparent consensus) fun, engaging combat, while the other rewards combat enormously (not so much that you'd avoid doing missions, but enough that you likely spend extra time fighting during a mission) while having less engaging combat.

So you can either get the same thing for free (Champions Online is going Free To Play) or get combat rewarded for the same price. Not really a great place to be, choice-wise.

2. Lack of Costume Pieces

It has one of the largest "selection of costumes" in any game as far as I can tell

Compared to its two competitors (see above), DCUO has an absolutely abysmal creator - both in terms of available pieces and in terms of what you can do with those pieces.

Sure, it's better than Fantasy MMOs, but it's not competing with them, and the alternatives have a lot more options - I'm not talking about like twice as much, or thrice as much. Champions Online probably has ten or twenty times as many options, and City of Heroes (with seven years of additions to bolster itself) has two or three times that.

So if you compare it to Behemoth of MMOCraft, sure, it looks good, but that's not really the market it's aiming at.

Got to admit I don't disagree, My tack record with MMO's is bad
WOW got a wopping 2 weeks... and thats not playtime.
and Champions online I spent a total 73 hours before deciding not to go back, My personal record for an MMO, before I realised I'd much rather play mass effect and had just spent most of that making characters...
so its pretty clear to see that getting Me past the first month is a challenge, let alone the many months after it.
so playing DC universe did nothing for Me, I rate MMO's as games, not MMO's. So as far as I'm concerned to be worth the title, "great combat" It has to give Me a simler feeling or satisfaction and play to DMC, to earn the title "Great multiplayer battles." It's gota run against Vegas 2, but I must say the one area I thought it would win my heart was customisation! But it simply felt like a down grade of champions, and I spent pitterfly little time enjoying the options before simply going fuck it looks like I'll just be a plane old superhero, before finding everyone seemed to have taken the same option...

Can I say, in its defence, that the Boss battles are bloody awesome?

Yes it's flawed, perhaps seriously wounding itself, (And that's not mentioning the UI or other problems) but...

I'll have to see.

I gotta agree with ya Shamus, specially with the costume pieces.

There is a severe lack of them when creating the character, and being forced to use a set 3 color palette for them just ruins it. It is nice that you unlock more as you just find equipment, and can switch between styles, and while I did manage to make my guy just as I wanted to at the start, it still bugged me.

I didn't really have that much of an issue with the power set though. My major source of contention was the sheer lack of any noteworthy out-of-battle regen for your health. Death didn't seemed to get punished in the Beta, because it was faster and less expensive to die than to wait or use health potions.

On a positive note though, I LOVE just how large the world is. It's practically the first super hero MMO (that I've seen and played) that uses a large world, instead of an instanced to hell shard system. It makes the travel powers much more useful, and while I had some niggling troubles with controlling my character when he'd want to start scaling walls suddenly, I do enjoy the Acrobat travel power (speed seems dull, and flight is overdone to me).

Shamus Young:

Irridium:

Negatempest:

Wait, what? Where did you find this out? To my knowledge I have done quests for Circe, Lex, and Jokers starter quests from one character. But i'm at level 10, but others at higher levels say you still do quests from each.

His blog. Although in retrospect it seems rather silly that I responded to it here...

And to be fair, I had only discovered it when I wrote that post. I'm still not sure how it works. I just know I went to Metropolis and flew around, but nobody would give me quests. Perhaps it was a bug?

You get a set of different quests to start with with a new mentor... which is actually a good thing, because it at least makes re-rolling a somewhat viable choice and offers a little different experience... if not ALL THAT MUCH... e.g. as you said Superman has the Gorilla Grodd mission right outside in Metropolis for Lvl3, Batman has Scarecrow, Joker has you beating up cops and setting them on fire, Circe has one regarding Magic in Chinatown etc.

Also the quest (and blue reward) you will get for Lvl15 and Lvl30 are different from Mentor to Mentor...
Other than that, e.g. most of all the other quests, all the Alerts and everything is basically the same and shared throughout.

Also... you can (and if you want to get all the Skillpoints from the Feats achievable in those missions have to) do all the missions of the other mentors. You just can't get them on your own e.g. you have to find someone that actually has that other mentor, group up and the quest will be shared with you.

krellen:

Dexter111:

1. Combat is not rewarded

This doesn't really matter, as it is as you said a design choice...

It sort of matters. Of its two competitors (which are City of Heroes and Champions Online - this game is not competing with Behemoth Fantasy World of MMOCraft, or its copies), one follows the DCUO path of not rewarding combat while having (supposedly; my opinion differs from the apparent consensus) fun, engaging combat, while the other rewards combat enormously (not so much that you'd avoid doing missions, but enough that you likely spend extra time fighting during a mission) while having less engaging combat.

So you can either get the same thing for free (Champions Online is going Free To Play) or get combat rewarded for the same price. Not really a great place to be, choice-wise.

2. Lack of Costume Pieces

It has one of the largest "selection of costumes" in any game as far as I can tell

Compared to its two competitors (see above), DCUO has an absolutely abysmal creator - both in terms of available pieces and in terms of what you can do with those pieces.

Sure, it's better than Fantasy MMOs, but it's not competing with them, and the alternatives have a lot more options - I'm not talking about like twice as much, or thrice as much. Champions Online probably has ten or twenty times as many options, and City of Heroes (with seven years of additions to bolster itself) has two or three times that.

So if you compare it to Behemoth of MMOCraft, sure, it looks good, but that's not really the market it's aiming at.

Those aren't the "gamebreakers" that they are made out to be, they might be "nagging" on the side... but in the end noone will quit the game because there are only about 1000 costume choices (and NO character looks exactly the same as another unintentionally) and he can't stand there and gaze at his character posing heroically 3 hours a day or because the mobs "don't give XP"... evident by all those "fantasy MMOs" you mentioned other stuff seems to be a lot more important in MMOs (they keep playing even if they all look the same and are wearing exactly the same "raid gear" in those), hell XP doesn't even matter anymore after the initial 24-30 hours if you don't re-roll because you reached the cap xD
The combat itself is kind of fun and rewarding, especially in PvP, which is about the only "viable" endgame choice at the moment, clicking around and trying to accomplish combos works a lot better than just pressing 1,2,3...
The main problem is and will be the lack of content and SinglePlayer-feel of the game... hell after you've reached Level30, almost everything you do, you do by "queuing" up for it from a menu... you don't even have to leave the "Hall of Villains" or "Justice League HQ" to do that and the game will lose the novelty factor rather fast.

Combine that with any lack of explanation how the hell most of the stuff in the game actually works that might scare off newcomers somewhat and a horrible UI that lets you only choose 6 powers of your 14+ at any given time or has you go into a menu to Inspect or talk to people with the horrible tacked on chat and yeah...

Dexter111:
but in the end noone will quit the game because there are only about 1000 costume choices

It's actually far worse than that.

What they've done is cleverly(?) taken a lot of the pieces out and put them in game to find.

The facial hair "choices" are things like Bald, Bald and goatee, Bald - goatee and sideburns; and to find them, you have to scroll through a huge list of parody names. (Afro/beard/mustache is a "Happy Painter")

For a female character, you can have a skintight costume or a skin-tight cleavage costume - with DD cup. Bracelets aren't there, rings aren't there, no neck items, there's only really 6 bodies. (3 male/3 female which are just size-changed)

Dr Fate is built like Superman, who is built like Batman...You can only get the Harley Quin Jester Cap from defeating her...

And, in my opinion, the worst thing they've done - there's no description area. At no point can you give your background, your alter ego or anything else.

Like I say, I'm finding ways around these things, but it is getting really hard to like it. Especially as you can only buy PVP regens with PVP points, that you get by defeating people in PvP - which is way easier if you can regen. A level 14 Batman can tank a level 12 Batman with ease, despite them coming in with the same powers, stats.

There's already a cheat that allows you to raise your critical chance to 100% that's part of the system.

BUT

City of Heroes had huge problems in Beta...I just hope SOE listen - Although, they're not known for taking "advice", and have a tendency to threadlock on a whim.

Dexter111:

Also... you can (and if you want to get all the Skillpoints from the Feats achievable in those missions have to) do all the missions of the other mentors. You just can't get them on your own e.g. you have to find someone that actually has that other mentor, group up and the quest will be shared with you.

Well thats a shame. I hate forced group quests. And I hate the idea of having to group with people to play some simple quests that I could easily do myself.

Gotta say, I've long been wondering how MMOs will play out on consoles. So unless it is a complete disaster on the PS3, odds are good that DCUO will be the game where I find out.

I mean, I'm the kind of guy who gets APB just to see if it is really as bad as everybody says. (Which it was.)

On the bright side, there are a whole lotta worse things that can and has been said about MMOs at launch, so is this game is polished enough that these concerns are even relevant, that speaks well of it.

Excellent Article, Shamus. Keep up the good work. :) I like Slow and Steady- I prefer to level up and then dominate my enemies in missions. It's more realistic- in Real Life you don't come back from the dead, you are either skilled enough to win when you show up or you die permanently. The whole "dying over and over again till you memorize everything and solve the puzzle" might make Mario gamers happy, but it tends to hurt immersion.

Shamus Young:

Irridium:

Negatempest:

Wait, what? Where did you find this out? To my knowledge I have done quests for Circe, Lex, and Jokers starter quests from one character. But i'm at level 10, but others at higher levels say you still do quests from each.

His blog. Although in retrospect it seems rather silly that I responded to it here...

And to be fair, I had only discovered it when I wrote that post. I'm still not sure how it works. I just know I went to Metropolis and flew around, but nobody would give me quests. Perhaps it was a bug?

Well it is actually kinda weird. You see, I noticed that when you complete you little area of quests to get good with your mentor. You get requests from other mentors to help out. For example you do Jokers beginner quests and soon enough (within a few hours, mostly depends on how sidetracked you can get) you get a call from your mentor saying that other mentors need help. Than the other mentors have you find the person you need to talk to, to start the other mentor quests.

Dexter111:

Those aren't the "gamebreakers" that they are made out to be, they might be "nagging" on the side... but in the end noone will quit the game because there are only about 1000 costume choices (and NO character looks exactly the same as another unintentionally) and he can't stand there and gaze at his character posing heroically 3 hours a day or because the mobs "don't give XP"...

I say this without meaning to be a jerk: Have you played any other superhero MMOs?

I'm up to something like 45 months in CoH, and have friends that have been continuously subscribed since launch. There are days when they (and sometimes I) literally do nothing but spend 2-3 hours creating new characters in the character creator on a typically unused server, or run costume contests to see what amazing things other people have done. They won't quit in the first 3 months maybe. But I think you are *tremendously* under-estimating the way a lot of us play superhero MMOs. Read Shamus' CO Let's Play, or CoH articles if you haven't - he talks about spending huge amounts of time in the creator.

Hell, at one point, many of us downloaded a stand alone version of the character creator, and played *that* for months.

So, you basically said I won't like it in the long run, because it won't feel rewarding in the long run. Got it.

My experiences with beta is that the game is great fun for a lark, but it didn't have that kind of long term hook that makes a person genuinely interested in paying a subscription for it. I'm sorry to see that the developers have foolhardily pressed on to making it into a subscription-based game anyway. If they had gone F2P with micro-transactions, or even expansion-box supported (Guild Wars style) that would have been a winning model.

Speaking of Champions Online, its F2P begins in 11 days. I'll be there.

Wow.....my instincts told me it would be like this (compellingsingle-player experience, but otherwise short and shallow by MMO standards) and its disturbing to realize that Champions is actually a deeper play experience. Agh!

Dexter111:

1. Combat is not rewarded

This doesn't really matter, as it is as you said a design choice... once you get that you can only level doing quests you should be fine, hitting mobs is still useful for some things, like recharging your "Power Meter" for those Special Attacks...
Not only that, but doing ALL quests is kinda helpful, if not mandatory as Quest XP scales with Level e.g. if you got to 18 and still got some Lvl8/12 quests they give you as much XP as your currently "new ones" and are a lot easier to do.

2. Lack of Costume Pieces

It has one of the largest "selection of costumes" in any game as far as I can tell and certainly surpasses almost all classic "fantasy MMOs" in that aspect... you get only a basic palette (which is large enough as is) during character creation, but you unlock over 350+ new outfits in the game... even entire "armor suits" of known villains and heroes like the Joker or Harley, Queen Bee etc.
It's also great that you can "lock" your costume in place so the look doesn't change from level1 to 30...
I do agree with the "on account basis", thing is though that collecting "Feats" adds to the Skill Points of your character... by collecting all the Feats in the game with one character you will get ~70 or so Skillpoints while the people that don't do them hang around with 20-30, if you want to finish "optimizing" your character you'll hunt em down someday.

The REAL problems I see with the game are two:

1) It doesn't have any in-depth tutorials, tooltips or help anywhere explaining what all the stuff does, so you'll either have to learn by experiencing and trial&error or talking to people or browse the forums... hell there's even very large threads pertaining to that cause the game doesn't even tell you how to use the chat anywhere (if it is working at a certain point that is...) like this one: http://forums.station.sony.com/dcuopc/posts/list.m?topic_id=4988

2) As you said, the game doesn't have enough content, you get a char from 1 to 30 in about 24-30 playing hours (which might depend on the playstyle of any given person..., some people that play it very "casual" might take 1-2 months, others will be done in 2-4 days (in fact a lot seem to be already)... even some SinglePlayer games like Dragon Age or Kings Bounty, Fallout 3 etc. offer 80+ hours of playtime and this is an MMO e.g. it is supposed to engange people long-term so that they continue paying their monthly sub, getting to endgame that quickly and only having raiding for gear and queuing for PvP or farming Feats left to do won't do that job and if they don't do something fast it'll be like a ghosttown a few months from now.

To add to that... even when rolling another faction e.g. Hero or Villain most of the quests are just recycled and you play them from the "viewpoint of the other side" e.g. same quest, same buildings, same collect this or kill that only with slightly different enemies or bosses (if that, some are even exactly the same...).

But if I'm playing DCUO to feel like a superhero, why would I want patrolling the city to be pointless? Why would I want to have to unlock my signature costume?

And if I'm not playing it to feel like a superhero, why not go for one of the cheaper F2P MMOs that either isn't based around superheroes or does the same combat with more options, such as Champions Online?

Lorechaser:
I say this without meaning to be a jerk: Have you played any other superhero MMOs?

I'm up to something like 45 months in CoH, and have friends that have been continuously subscribed since launch. There are days when they (and sometimes I) literally do nothing but spend 2-3 hours creating new characters in the character creator on a typically unused server, or run costume contests to see what amazing things other people have done. They won't quit in the first 3 months maybe. But I think you are *tremendously* under-estimating the way a lot of us play superhero MMOs. Read Shamus' CO Let's Play, or CoH articles if you haven't - he talks about spending huge amounts of time in the creator.

Hell, at one point, many of us downloaded a stand alone version of the character creator, and played *that* for months.

Honestly, it's one of the things you might *think* is important and might even get you playing in the first place (hell I also sometimes spend 1-2 hours to make a char), but once you get playing it really is not all that important... You'll probably play a very good game even looking like a predefined gimp without any choices and might not give some with the "best character creator" another look (there's a reason Champions and soon likely Star Trek Online will become F2P, and it's not that they have such an amazing character creator)

Dunno about patrolling the city pointless, you are a superhero, hence you are supposed to want to help people, that should be the reward :P. And heck with all the hidden feats there proably is a feat in there somewhere.

My problems with the game are more along the lines of, i played beta on pc, and was one of the people that had massive desync issues when trying to play, that nothing i did stopped it, started in gotham, batman being my mentor and all, but i could not play more than 5 minutes without the game geting more and more unsynched off what i was doing, if i was bounding around the city exploring the town would be a ghost town nothing on the streets or anywhere until i was getting attacked by stuff i could not see at all, only way i got thru many combat missions was to just spam my attack buttons until my health stopped dropping. any timed missions i had to get myself killed or restart the game to hopefully get enough lag free time to pick up item x move it over there before it exploded, sometimes this took constant reboots just to get one mission done.

BUt i went to metropolis and there was no desync just basic lag, most of metro was fine to play in, parts of chinatown were desync but not near as bad as gotham. But other parts of metropolis were fine, while gotham was quite honestly unplayable.

AND what REALLY irked me, was the fact that we had a pretty good forum thread on the soe dcu beta forums about us people having this issue, comparing isps, oss, etc where we had lag, where we did not have lag, and the pattern was is that those of us that had it gotham was horrid, metro was fine except for a few zones of the city. But sony deleted the forum thread, one day it was just gone.

Now there was a patch the day before so i thought hmm maybe they fixed it and closed the thread well it was better but it was not fixed, gotham was not as bad as it used to be but still bad enough to be unplayable unless you had a ton of patience to restart the client, die or just spam skills to try and do anything. metro that same areas had the same problems.

SO after that i just said gg sony, uninstalled the game, and said f it. No more beta testing no more broken quests found, not more desync investigation conducted, just bye hope you get this shit fixed before you ship it else you are going to have a ton of angry people at launch if some of these issues were still in the game.

My other nagging worry while playing is this, there is a good story to dcu the mentor missions and the whole war on brainiac thing has a ton of potential, the cities are well done the music is awesome, the voice acting is solid with mark hamils second to last ever perfomrnace as the joker and other voice acting regulars doing the characters they own, but mmos work on updates, some big updates, fixes, balance, content updates, with the game being on ps3 i was worried about the depth of content we would get via downloads. Was also worried that with hmail retiring as the joker how would they keep some of the voice acting consistent if we got new content down the line.

The cities were well done gotham and metro were great to explore the watchtower was done well, but stil the game world seemed small compared to most other mmos, 2 cities and a watchtower you could have everything explored to some degree in a week or two of playing.

While there was a good bit of good and fun about this mmo based purely on the geek factors of being mixed up with the heroes and villians you know and the random moment if the game like when batman showed up out of nowhere while i was exploring the city to tell me, i got my eye on your, your doing good work, scared the crap out of me. and the random pickups of headlines and tape recordings of events in the city, and places of interest was cool n all. But i could not shake the feeling that the game just had not enough there there and needed another few months of work to iron out the bugs i found and were not fixed last time i logged in.

I do not mind paying for a mmo if there is a a good game there, hell if it is a really good game it saves me money by not buying other games to play for months or years on end. And almost always perfer a p2p mmo over a f2p mmo since many f2p mmos destroy the games balance with the cash shops, and arrange the game so the only way to be efficient in travel xp and loot and loot is to shell out for the cs items.

I have to say I agree with you Shamus. The character creator has annoyed me from the first moment I realized it was basically just a much more limited version of the one from Champions Online, and had no body sliders... those boobs look absolutely ridiculous. I thought Power Girl was supposed to be an over-exaggerated exception, not the rule? I did find a jacket to cover things up (though there weren't many of those), but it still looks like she has a couple of watermelons stuffed down her shirt. People say they're fine, but they're not for me.

AS it is... I'll probably play for a little while, maybe even the full month (though unlikely) I got with the game, but I'm not planning on renewing my subscription.

Also have to agree with other people that the lack of in-game tutorials is appalling. I still have no clue how the chat system works, and I don't care enough to go on the forums to look up the answer.

Dexter111:

Lorechaser:
I say this without meaning to be a jerk: Have you played any other superhero MMOs?

I'm up to something like 45 months in CoH, and have friends that have been continuously subscribed since launch. There are days when they (and sometimes I) literally do nothing but spend 2-3 hours creating new characters in the character creator on a typically unused server, or run costume contests to see what amazing things other people have done. They won't quit in the first 3 months maybe. But I think you are *tremendously* under-estimating the way a lot of us play superhero MMOs. Read Shamus' CO Let's Play, or CoH articles if you haven't - he talks about spending huge amounts of time in the creator.

Hell, at one point, many of us downloaded a stand alone version of the character creator, and played *that* for months.

Honestly, it's one of the things you might *think* is important and might even get you playing in the first place (hell I also sometimes spend 1-2 hours to make a char), but once you get playing it really is not all that important... You'll probably play a very good game even looking like a predefined gimp without any choices and might not give some with the "best character creator" another look (there's a reason Champions and soon likely Star Trek Online will become F2P, and it's not that they have such an amazing character creator)

I think you're maybe forgetting that not everyone is the same... people do look for different things in games, you know. So even if it isn't a problem for you, it could very well be for others.

dastardly:
Agreed.

MMOs based on a subscription must be about ownership.

Players must feel they own their characters. They have to be able to design exactly what they want, or the character doesn't feel like on they created. It feels like one they're renting.

The same goes for playstyle. If you can't engage in the activities you like, even if that's just beating up random guys for hours on end, you're not crafting an experience for yourself. You're borrowing an experience from a short list of pre-fab experiences.

When people feel like they are renting or borrowing something, they'll always be acutely aware of the cost. And if there's a cheaper (but equivalent) option available, they'll always take it. With the rise of mainstream free-to-play games, subscription-based games can't get away with this crap anymore.

Looks like we are all on the same page here :P

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