The Big Picture: Conspiracy Weary

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Eternal_Lament:
Interesting episode. Touched on some good points. The thing that confused me though was the conspiracy by Arnold and Hollywood to have audiences go to theatres rather than play video games, since I seriously neer even heard that one till just now

Most influential anti-gaming advocates seem to belong to telecom companies(CBS, FOX, etc) and Hollywood(Ironic bc of all the llicensed games, I know), so yeah that one's pretty spot on.

"All right," said Susan. "I'm not stupid. You're saying humans need... fantasies to make life bearable."

REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.

"Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little-"

YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES.

"So we can believe the big ones?"

YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.

"They're not the same at all!"

YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET-Death waved a hand. AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME... SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.

"Yes, but people have got to believe that, or what's the point-"

MY POINT EXACTLY."

- Terry Pratchett (Hogfather)

that last "lizard bob" part made me roflmao. Just sayin'

Generic Gamer:
Hahaha, do you know what misaimed sarcasm is called?

Well, just there you said it was called misaimed sarcasm, so I'll go with that :-P

Generic Gamer:
"a big dude in the sky did it" is not the simplest explanation, it requires a massive unexplained phenomenon, a willingness to disregard evidence and a willingness not to observe the world around you.

Not at all. Remember, we're not talking about proving anything here. Remember where I said about avoiding details or problems of proof? Asserting that everything is done by magic (or God, or Superman, or who-fucking-ever) is fundamentally more simple than positing complex solutions for the creation of universe, the rise of sentient life, and so on. It is essentially the simplest answer of all, because it boils down to "just because". It's hard to get any simpler than that, right?

Generic Gamer:
Science is a method, not an explanation. Science is about observation, experimentation and verification. The scientific method produces the simplest answer.

No, the scientific method produces far more accurate but also far more complex answers. Look at it this way, which is the least cluttered and confusing answer? That we were A) created by a magic man of unlimitied power or B) evolved slowly over billions of years from a single-celled organism to the emotionally functional sentient beings that we are today? This is not a question of correct, it is a question of simple, and for the most part option A is easier to believe. It requires less scientific understanding, and for all that B has the evidence backing it it is still a more complex explanation. Ergo, "God did it" is the simplest explanation, as it requires no further thought and can be used to gloss over any inconsistencies.

Although I know what you meant when you said that "reality is chaos", that still depends on whether you're a determinist or not, I'm personally in the same mold as Descartes since I subscribe to subjectivism (cogito ergo sum).

However, I'm inclined to say that there is some order within the universe. The physical laws that govern it make it possible to tell time or predict when the next eclipse will be thousands of years into the future. If we didn't have anything reliable like gravity or a constant speed of light, most of civilization would probably be centuries behind.

Do you know what's scarier than reality? Reality that behaves like a conspiracy theory. I've always had a morbid interest in the Church Of Scientology, everything about them is strangely shady for a supposed religious organization; their behaviour plays out (rather ironically) like something out of a science fiction novel. They do so well at keeping whatever it is they do a big secret that they've become a source for urban legend, but the scariest thing is that most of the accounts you read online or the video testimonies you watch on Youtube are extremely plausible and not entirely improbable in today's society, most of which even have legal documents and mountains of evidence to back up their claims.

Dino Riders @ 4:35
YES!!!!!!!!!

I agree with all bob said in this one, more or less

geierkreisen:
REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.

One of my favouritequotes, that. "Where the rising angel meets the falling ape"

Man, Death is cool :-D

Generic Gamer:

SonicWaffle:

He's got a point. Without delving into details or trivialities such as evidence, "a big dude in the sky did it" is a much simpler explanation than anything else we've got to explain the origin of life :-P

Hahaha, do you know what misaimed sarcasm is called?

"a big dude in the sky did it" is not the simplest explanation, it requires a massive unexplained phenomenon, a willingness to disregard evidence and a willingness not to observe the world around you.

Science is a method, not an explanation. Science is about observation, experimentation and verification. The scientific method produces the simplest answer.

So, with that in mind, what about science specifically?

I respect your view, but understanding that a man in the sky made the world and makes sure it runs, it so simple it is understood by the smallest child.

Understanding Evolution and the various quantum theories that represent our rough knowledge of the origin of the universe are the combined work of the greatest minds of our species, and are anything but simple my friend... I'm full on the science view btw buddy, I just don't think it can be described as simple compared to the ancient and baseless religious view =p

loved that one. Best video so far. Also u forgot to mention the matrix conspiracy. Right wing paranoid are so funny. :D

Yes, we'd rather form conspiracy theories than face the fact that the Universe is just fucked up and there is no reason for it what so ever. It is highly unlikely that there is any sort of grand design, and if there is we'll never understand it or our place in it. It's like the paint trying to understand it's place in the overall painting. It can't, because it can't leap off the canvas and view the thing objectively. In the same token, we can't step outside the Universe and view it objectively.

psivamp:

wasalp:

Cursed Frogurt:
Global warming is real. Whether or not we are significantly affecting it is the debate.

Conspiracy theories are stupid. Personal agendas should always be considered.

really? Its pretty obvious. I think its 97% of scientists believe global warming is caused by humans, the other 3% are less educated and qualified then their brethren.

We've actually done some things that have set the whole thing back... a bit. On the whole, the whole hydrocarbon-based energy economy is fucking shit up though.

On another note, our need to search for order is one of the things that has made our species so successful. It doesn't work in all cases. Presented with true randomness, we continue to search for patterns that just aren't there.

Actually (Quoting wasalp but too lazy to look back for the post) aside from that statistic strikingly resembling the statistics of UN scientists who agree(they almost always get sacked if they don't from the UN climate committee), there are many respectable scientists who disagree that global warming is man-made, and cite that carbon levels are following the temperature due to ocean effects if I remember correctly. But just like the "mainstream" scientific community, most of you won't even google this because you'll (un-scientifically) completely discount any possible rebuttal to the very political status quo as complete idiocy. Seriously, EVERY other aspect of science is open for further debate, even the nature of gravity, but not global warming.

canadamus_prime:
Yes, we'd rather form conspiracy theories than face the fact that the Universe is just fucked up and there is no reason for it what so ever. It is highly unlikely that there is any sort of grand design, and if there is we'll never understand it or our place in it. It's like the paint trying to understand it's place in the overall painting. It can't, because it can't leap off the canvas and view the thing objectively. In the same token, we can't step outside the Universe and view it objectively.

Aside from the logical fallacy of using an uncertainty to rebut an uncertainty, the very fact that you don't know and admit doing so undermines your point that I'm wrong. I could be wrong, but I could be right, and the same with you.

SonicWaffle:

Generic Gamer:
Hahaha, do you know what misaimed sarcasm is called?

Well, just there you said it was called misaimed sarcasm, so I'll go with that :-P

Generic Gamer:
"a big dude in the sky did it" is not the simplest explanation, it requires a massive unexplained phenomenon, a willingness to disregard evidence and a willingness not to observe the world around you.

Not at all. Remember, we're not talking about proving anything here. Remember where I said about avoiding details or problems of proof? Asserting that everything is done by magic (or God, or Superman, or who-fucking-ever) is fundamentally more simple than positing complex solutions for the creation of universe, the rise of sentient life, and so on. It is essentially the simplest answer of all, because it boils down to "just because". It's hard to get any simpler than that, right?

Generic Gamer:
Science is a method, not an explanation. Science is about observation, experimentation and verification. The scientific method produces the simplest answer.

No, the scientific method produces far more accurate but also far more complex answers. Look at it this way, which is the least cluttered and confusing answer? That we were A) created by a magic man of unlimitied power or B) evolved slowly over billions of years from a single-celled organism to the emotionally functional sentient beings that we are today? This is not a question of correct, it is a question of simple, and for the most part option A is easier to believe. It requires less scientific understanding, and for all that B has the evidence backing it it is still a more complex explanation. Ergo, "God did it" is the simplest explanation, as it requires no further thought and can be used to gloss over any inconsistencies.

Misaimed sarcasm is called stupidity. It highlights that you didn't think the statement through properly the first time around and instead rushed to look clever. Let's take another look.

the simplest explanation is normally the right one.

The simplest explanation is normally the right one. Even if you feel that a single example you pulled out of the air is simpler (it's not, it's easier. Big difference.) that doesn't mean that the majority aren't correct. Identifying a minority doesn't make the minority the majority.

Back to that bracketed point; the difference between simple and easy. Easy ideas allow you to gloss over problems and to explain things quickly. The simplest idea takes the least complexity to make it work. If you really, really think about every component you need to make Genesis work and what evidence we have for each component, then compare that to the idea of RNA and DNA formation from protein chains then you'll notice which idea takes more effort to get it working. One idea is bulletproof but the other needs less unproven apparatus to get it working.

Tin Man:

I respect your view, but understanding that a man in the sky made the world and makes sure it runs, it so simple it is understood by the smallest child.

Same thing here, the godless idea is simpler because it doesn't require an unknowable, omnipotent god. In order to work, the god equation needs god, an empty planet, the garden of eden, a limitless power completely beyond our comprehension and a flat out ignorance of evidence to the contrary. It's actually a very complex idea when not simplified, you could simplify the origins of life to 'DNA formed from protein' in the same way as 'God created all the creatures that stand upon the earth'.

Not that it matters, the person I was replying to seems to have forgotten that the origin of life is a lot more complex than 'most situations', most situations we encounter being more like 'why did he do that?' or 'did someone move my keys?'

Man-made global warming is not proven. While i accept the world is warming up, if i hear ONE MORE PERSON tell me it's all our fault and we're the only ones who can fix it (or, in fact, that we can 'fix it' AT ALL) i'm going to beat them with the conspiracy theory about JFK's murder.

But otherwise, yeah, i agree with you.

What, a video about conspiracy theories with no mention of Deus Ex?

Seriously though, good video, especially with the analysis of why people come up with conspiracy theories. Also a reminder of why I like your videos, even when your name seems to spark internet arguments.

The_root_of_all_evil:

I felt this was appropriate.

And all of Leicester apologises about David Icke...and Keith Vaz...

"Can we have your organs then?" XD

It's a lot like what is happening with the whole "political rhetoric causing a shooting" thing going on right now, America simply does not want to face the fact that it's officals are vunerable to the potant mix of a generous smattering of firearms coupled with an even more generous smattering of nut-jobs. It's not a web of stoked up hatred and interlinked conspiracy, society can simply and quite fequrently produce these kind of events by nature.

Attaching "Reason to the Unreasonable" is what people attempt every day; the Jews did it, the Liberals did it, The Liberal Jews who control the media did it. Lord Xenu did it. We can posture about the grander questions of the universe like god, existance and the whole reason for it all, these are genuine mysteries and things the human mind may never ge to grips with. But trying to explain away your house price plummeting due to some kind of faith illuminati conspiracy rather than facing the fact that people may just be extreamly incompetent just comes accross sad. If you hear hoves it's proabaly not a Zebra, it's a horse. occam's razor people.

and Leicester has some serious groveling to do...

A conspiracy theory is only a conspiracy theory for those who don't believe it, the others just a theory. Most people, even the smartest and most informed ones, have to rely in something outside their knowledge at times. How can you know that the information you are relying on isn't misleading or biased? What if the information you find is consistently misleading?

If you don't challenge what you know every now and then, by seriously considering something outside what you believe, you are much more likely to end up on the crazy side of divergent opinions.

Nieroshai:

canadamus_prime:
Yes, we'd rather form conspiracy theories than face the fact that the Universe is just fucked up and there is no reason for it what so ever. It is highly unlikely that there is any sort of grand design, and if there is we'll never understand it or our place in it. It's like the paint trying to understand it's place in the overall painting. It can't, because it can't leap off the canvas and view the thing objectively. In the same token, we can't step outside the Universe and view it objectively.

Aside from the logical fallacy of using an uncertainty to rebut an uncertainty, the very fact that you don't know and admit doing so undermines your point that I'm wrong. I could be wrong, but I could be right, and the same with you.

What are you talking about?

mrhateful:
I would say that it is global warning thats the conspiracy,
would you rather believe that the human race has such a large impact on an entire planet that we can increase the temperatures by such a large amount, or that the temperatures just goes up and down during the natural course of the planets life.

You don't think humans can have a big impact on the planet?

Let's ask the passenger pigeons. Oh, WAIT.

Let's ask the European Lions. Oh, WAIT...

Let's ask the Lebanese cedar-cutters. Oh, WAIT...

We've only got one planet, it kind of behooves us not to treat it like we have a spare in the trunk.

------

And, on a less rancorous note:

Cracked.com: 6 Crackpot Conspiracy Theories (That Actually Happened)

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My beef with a lot of conspiracy theories is the total lack of _mistakes_ made by the alleged conspirators.

Can we see a photo-shopped lizard bob please?

k-ossuburb:
Do you know what's scarier than reality? Reality that behaves like a conspiracy theory. I've always had a morbid interest in the Church Of Scientology, everything about them is strangely shady for a supposed religious organization; their behaviour plays out (rather ironically) like something out of a science fiction novel. They do so well at keeping whatever it is they do a big secret that they've become a source for urban legend, but the scariest thing is that most of the accounts you read online or the video testimonies you watch on Youtube are extremely plausible and not entirely improbable in today's society, most of which even have legal documents and mountains of evidence to back up their claims.

Yep. just look up "Operation Snow White" for an example of a REAL conspiracy.

Kumomaru:
Man-made global warming is not proven. While i accept the world is warming up, if i hear ONE MORE PERSON tell me it's all our fault and we're the only ones who can fix it (or, in fact, that we can 'fix it' AT ALL) i'm going to beat them with the conspiracy theory about JFK's murder.

"ONE of the Lee Harvey Oswalds acted alone"?

I dunno about "all" our fault, but we've been returning CO2 to the atmosphere at a rate not seen since the coal-beds were first laid down in the Carboniferous period.

Or I suppose NASA could've been bought out by Al Gore...

Of course, that's exactly what our Reptilian Overlords WANT, since they're not going to be comfortable until global temperatures are all tropical. Do you believe that?

Also you might want to talk to this guy;

image

He'll be here soon. Then the lies will end

"It's fortified with what the world wants... what the world deserves"

I don't recall ever hearing that Obama was a terrorist. I only heard that he was born in a foreign country, therefore his presidency is invalid.

The_root_of_all_evil:

MB202:
So...

...

...Who's Alex Jones?

Makes a lot of movies about how the New World Order will destroy the Old World. Because he's been allowed to. By the New World Order. And not silenced in any way. Which they've already done to everyone else. And only HE can SEE the TRUTH.

well, everyone who's played Condemned 1-2 knows why the dead birds are falling :P
*subconscious ringing*

arbane:

mrhateful:
I would say that it is global warning thats the conspiracy,
would you rather believe that the human race has such a large impact on an entire planet that we can increase the temperatures by such a large amount, or that the temperatures just goes up and down during the natural course of the planets life.

You don't think humans can have a big impact on the planet?

Let's ask the passenger pigeons. Oh, WAIT.

Let's ask the European Lions. Oh, WAIT...

Let's ask the Lebanese cedar-cutters. Oh, WAIT...

We've only got one planet, it kind of behooves us not to treat it like we have a spare in the trunk.

Yes because animals are planets.

I never was one to believe in conspiracies much but it's interesting to read them and wonder what if all the effort put into making these conspiracies seem plausible was actually put into trying to solve the real problem.

Also, title reminded me of this for some reason...

Oh no! Its a Reptile! Truthism is real!

Yeah, that's an interesting point you made on conspircy theories. Never really thought about why people always believed in them, but them being on of those methods people deal with the universe seems pretty sound. I mean, I'm sure there are some secret societies that do have some influence on the world (not all of it and they aren't all powerful) or that some secret plans are constantly being carried out by different governments (that's just a part of global politics), but most of them are probably smart enough to keep bumbling idiots that come up with these conspiracy theories from finding out.

Anyway worrying about whether there's a secret society controlling all the world's governments and corperations isn't going to make life any better. I mean we don't even fully know if this reality is even true. But whatever, this is the world we live in, might as well work within it.

mrhateful:

arbane:

mrhateful:
I would say that it is global warning thats the conspiracy,
would you rather believe that the human race has such a large impact on an entire planet that we can increase the temperatures by such a large amount, or that the temperatures just goes up and down during the natural course of the planets life.

You don't think humans can have a big impact on the planet?

Let's ask the passenger pigeons. Oh, WAIT.

Let's ask the European Lions. Oh, WAIT...

Let's ask the Lebanese cedar-cutters. Oh, WAIT...

We've only got one planet, it kind of behooves us not to treat it like we have a spare in the trunk.

Yes because animals are planets.

Human beings have the ability to destroy themselves, or beings inferior to us, not the planet. We are making an impact on the climate, but we cannot yet grasp what that impact is or if it is damaging the climate too much.

Controversy hooray!

Its not reptiles! Its the ZP imps! They're getting ready to take over the world! Why do you think they've been appearing at the end of all the Escapist videos?! You've got to believe me!!!

I don't really care whether or not global warming is real. After all, nothing we do now will make much of a change within our lifetimes so it doesn't really mater.

However, I would appreciate it if we stopped throwing shit all around us, be it gasses, energy or trash.

the whole reptilians here to steal our water doesn't make sense, for several reasons. One, our water is quite polluted, two, they could easily just mine frozen water off of any one of other planetary/celestial bodies, and finally, it's absurd.

I've never understood the Global Warming thing. I mean, it exists guys... that's science. Why do people not believe in it? It's not a belief... it's fucking SCIENCE.

I mean, yeah, a large part of it is because of human existence, but if you're not "believing" in it because you don't want to be responsible for something, chill out. One person alone didn't cause rising ocean levels. We all play a role, and pretending Global Warming isn't there WON'T help fix the problem. Is Global Warming and it's effects often hyperbolized? You better believe it. Is it something to ignore? Nope. It's still there, and if we don't do something about it soon, we're going to lose the most important thing on this planet: penguins.

Loonerinoes:
There is a difference between a conspiracy theory, which has no concrete facts to back it up to begin with (such as say...that whole thing about aliens in the south pacific - yeah...not buying into that until a whole lot of seperate sources come forth with something moreso credible than just a few murky videos and unconfirmed reports) or other things like say...the fact that nations have in the past ALWAYS declared war primarily over resources and that it is hardly a stretch to consider America declaring such on Iraq for the oil.

With historians telling us what nations have warred over in the past, the pattern is alas very clear. And you don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to see it - you just need to study historical facts properly.

Rome expanded because it needed more resources like grain (Egypt for example was one of its main breadbaskets that fed the whole Empire) to feed the masses of their cities.

Britain expanded because of the same damn reason - slaves to do the hard labor and with the Chinese war for example so as to fight for the right to sell them the newly created opium for massive profits.

And America is expanding right now because of the resource most needed today to make sure that its military keeps on truckin' around the world. Oil. China is, of course, after the same thing and it comes as no surprise that Venezuela, which directly opposes America, just so happens to be supplying China with its petroleum full fact style these days.

George Carlin probably put it best - it's hilarious that people call a conspiracy theory anything these days that goes against what you're being spoon-fed by other people, rather than doing your own work and investigating things for your own self. Also Bob is so wrong. I'd actually find it a whole lot less scary if people really were just dumb - that'd actually mean that we'd stand a good chance of turning it around eventually.

But it's not so much about that. It's about people, like MovieBob by the way, who think they're smarter than they actually are. Who can't help but get on the soapbox every damn time they get a chance rather than actually spend an extended amount of time looking at a problem from different directions and instead prefer to just slap labels left and right as based on their prejudices.

See...that's why I've by now decided that this so-called 'Big Picture' really isn't for me. Because the only thing that's 'big' about it really is the size of Bob's ego as he figures he has it all figured out. Instead he'd do better to just stick with reviewing movies since it's the one thing I give him credit for actually being good at. But I'm sure that won't happen...at least not for a long old while.

So enjoy this soapbox if you like. Me, I'd rather check these worldly issues for myself than listen to this again I think.

Firstly I would like to say that I believe you just made an extremely good, valid point, secondly may I just say that I completely agree with you,I have watched every episode of The Big Picture so far but I too don't think i'll be watching any more.

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