The Big Picture: Conspiracy Weary

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The_root_of_all_evil:

MB202:
So...

...

...Who's Alex Jones?

Makes a lot of movies about how the New World Order will destroy the Old World. Because he's been allowed to. By the New World Order. And not silenced in any way. Which they've already done to everyone else. And only HE can SEE the TRUTH.

Uhh... Okay then.

hurricanejbb:
Why is everyone accusing Bob of being a left-winger? I've checked his blog, and he seems pretty libertarian to me.

He has blasphemed against God-Emperor Bush, therefore he's a FILTHY LIBRUL.

Everyone that I know forms conspiracies. Conspiracies for/against co-workers, customers, friends, family, authority, you name it. If I was in a position of power, I'm sure I'd still conspire with others who have similar interests. I don't see why Dick Cheney wouldn't. People work together to get what they want. I think most people would love to conspire towards some kinda NWO-agenda, if they could. Shape the world into your ideal vision? Sign me up.

arbane:

GrizzlerBorno:
Hmmm....I've never looked at conspiracy theories as Religions before, but it DOES actually make a lot of sense that argument. No wonder why fighting conspiracy theorist trolls is as tiresome as fighting preaching fanatic trolls.

Good Vid Bob.

Religion and Conspiracy Theories have the same big three draws for people:
1: The promise of Hidden Knowledge that makes you BETTER than most people,
2: A fraudulent but compelling structure that FORCES the world to make SENSE, and
3: Someone or something to BLAME everything on.

JackSparrowSucks:

The hell?

Um, yes. I think it's fake because it's an inherently irrational idea. Gloabl Climate Change is real, yes, but so are bowel movements. I don't think it's human-caused.

I believe it's just a "warming cycle" that will end.

The only reason so many people believe in it is because they want to feel smart, in my opinion.

Ok, so what's all these climatologists, ecologists, and so on's motivation for the biggest deliberate scientific fraud since Darwin decided to fake evolution? Or are all these college types just such idiots they can't see the Obvious Facts that your omniscient Gut has bestowed upon you?

Uh, no; that'd be arrogant. You know Global Warming isn't proven, right? Seriously, look it up. My opinion is based entirely on reason and logic, since it's a sort of soft science anyone could understand.

If you want, you can PM your facts (and I am easily chacnged by facts and such) and I'll Pm you mine (It doesn't include that "half percent increase" buggery). if you find a flaw, just Pm me more facts. I'm bored. And not offensive.

JackSparrowSucks:

Uh, no; that'd be arrogant. You know Global Warming isn't proven, right? Seriously, look it up. My opinion is based entirely on reason and logic, since it's a sort of soft science anyone could understand.

If you want, you can PM your facts (and I am easily chacnged by facts and such) and I'll Pm you mine (It doesn't include that "half percent increase" buggery). if you find a flaw, just Pm me more facts. I'm bored. And not offensive.

Sorry to burst your bubble on this one but there is no serious climatologist who rejects anthropomorphic climate change. I'm not exaggerating, not a single one. The idea that man-made climate change is controversial in the scientific community is complete misinformation. As a 'theory' it is no more controversial that the theory of evolution or theory of gravitation.

Long time listener, first time poster.

I like your stuff Bob. This episodes especially, as I've had more than my fair share of conspiracy-battles with crazed loons in my life. One thing I gotta speak up on here though...

After you stole my heart by writing off all the conspiracy crap about oil, the war, etr. You turn around and support the biggest conspiracy of all - Global Warming!

So here's a question for you Bob - What do you think is more likely:

-A bunch of 'evil' conservatives trying to convince the world that there is no future threat to an ozone that's lasted thousands and thousands of years enduring all kinds of emisions (such as those from volcanos which is a million times more harmful and toxic than man could ever produce) JUST so the can save money for what REALLY matters.

OR

- A group of loons intended on creating another 'doomsday theory' just like Y2K, 2012 meltdown etr.

Johnnylight:

So here's a question for you Bob - What do you think is more likely:

-A bunch of 'evil' conservatives trying to convince the world that there is no future threat to an ozone that's lasted thousands and thousands of years enduring all kinds of emisions (such as those from volcanos which is a million times more harmful and toxic than man could ever produce) JUST so the can save money for what REALLY matters.

OR

- A group of loons intended on creating another 'doomsday theory' just like Y2K, 2012 meltdown etr.

It depends. Who stands to make more money off of it? That's usually a pretty good indicator of who's got the most to gain by distorting the truth.

I'd argue there's less money to be made in climatology than the fossil-fuel industry, but that's commie talk.

Oh, and for the record? The Y2K disaster didn't 'fail to happen'. A whole lot of computer geeks worked REALLY HARD to KEEP it from happening. So now the hard-of-thinking crowd assumes it was never a problem in the first place.

Edit to add: Come to think of it, the Ozone layer problem didn't go away by itself, either. Chlorofluorocarbons got banned pretty much worldwide to fix that problem, and it seems to have worked.

Warachia:

Tin Man:

Warachia:
We honestly don't have a problem with your opinion bob, it's when you force your opinion on others is where the line is drawn.

So The Escapist have actually started forcing people to watch their shows? Shows where the entire point of it is that its a no-holds barred look at large scale topics through a geek lense?

Those bastards.

You obviously misunderstood me, nobody is forcing anybody to watch anything, but it's poor taste for anybody to come out and say, look people, I'm right, you're wrong, now think like me.

Its a good thing I find irony delicious.

In all fairness dude, if you don't like that kind of thing, don't watch the show. The whole, heavily opinionated, well spoken geek thing is hardly a new angle of Escapist shows. Some of us are comfortable enough in our own opinions to not get bothered by other peoples, and find them quite entertaining, if not thought provoking.

If you don't, then that's cool, but don't sit there being hypocritical and speaking for other people while you're at it.

Much love.

Conspiracies are a very real thing, in this context.

(from the dictionary)

Law. an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.

Yeah that happens all the time, its just far more petty then the grandiose Illuminati garbage stoners keep rambling on about. Basically a conspiracy is any kind of multi person crime plan. Technically a gang running a cocaine dealing/smuggling ring in a small neighborhood is a conspiracy.

However, large big scary conspiracies have existed in the past. The most famous of them all is of course the rise of the 3rd Reich. Another the assassination of Julius Caesar,

History is full of questionable ones however, the assassination of the Arch Duke Ferdinand is the best I can think of. Was it just a random hate crime, or was there more to it? We will never know of course. Likely a random hate crime, but the events fallowing were catastrophic.

The is issue is that these are huge moments in history that will never be forgotten, are very rare, and the purposes are usually very obvious, and never include secret groups or organizations.

Relatively long post; general gist: MoviBob, what they hell are you thinking these days? I thought you were smart.

Insightful? Are you joking? I'm starting to think this opinion show should never be watched by anyone because the opinions are logically flawed while also accusing other opinions of being logically flawed.

Random? Everything? Not saying anything about Goddies or Atheists, I think the organization of subatomic material into positively and negatively charged particles which then create a hierarchy of this thing we call existence isn't very chaotic...in fact, it's the very opposite of chaos. The way those particles may assemble themselves after the fact may be seemingly or actually random, but seeing as the mechanics that define such combinations and then go on to define secondary and tertiary combinations are very simple and consistent, I would have to say the polar nature of existence is, in fact, extremely ordered.

And no conspiracies? Yeah, Oswald probably killed JFK alone, we did land on the moon, the Obama birth certificate scandal was proven to be a hoax, the tsunami wasn't cause by underwater nuclear testing, and the twin towers were not hit by drones. That doesn't mean there aren't any conspiracies.

Is Cheney the evil mastermind of an occult organization bent on world domination? I doubt it...but he IS getting extraordinarily rich off of watching the military industrial complex slowly dominate the world. Did Hussein really have WMD's? I doubt it...but a large group of military intelligence specialists did produce a bogus report saying that he DID, all for the purpose of convincing an idiot to invade a country that was actually our economic friend. Was the hyperbubble collapse of aught 8 intentional? I doubt it...but the masterminds of wall street certainly came out on top of the whole deal, didn't they (and now the know they CAN get away with whatever they want)?

When Ford deliberately refuses to recall the '95 Explorer to replace the tires which are blowing out and killing idiot drivers--I mean, women drivers---I mean, less experienced drivers---because getting sued for wrongful death will cost less than a country wide recall...that's a conspiracy. When Bechtel seizes the water that falls from the sky over Cochabomba in order to render it's hydraulic despotism concrete and the government back their play...that's a conspiracy. When the PATRIOT ACT is deliberately titled as an acronym that would make someone appear unpatriotic for opposing it and it is then dropped off over night with a vote on it called after the hill doors open the next morning, leaving absolutely no time to read the multiple-hundred-page bloated proposition and see what collateral log rolling will occur after the fact...that's a conspiracy. When the jackass at Whataburger gives me a little "secret sauce" and the cook slides me a little "extra meat," that's a conspiracy. There are legitimate conspiracies everywhere.

Bob, you've got to stop your arguments half-way through...by that, I mean that you need to carry your syllogisms through to their completion before spouting a bunch of left-centrist nonsense. Yes, I said left-centrist nonsense, because when you take a look at it, that's all it is. I'm right on some things, I'm left on others, but most of my choices come from thoughtful conclusions made against known factors of logical fallacies. For example, I don't agree with abortion, but I still think the woman has a right to have one...If any of you want to have that conversation, you can pm me, but I guarantee you it is made on a host of logical conclusions. Lately, however, you haven't been doing the final 200 meters, Bob.

Perhaps the biggest lapse of logic in this ep? Telling viewers to calm down because it's an "opinion show," and then spending the rest of the episode using your personal opinion to bash them and theirs over the head for being so stupid. Why is it their opinion is so wrong and dangerous, and yours isn't? A little bit difficult to sit in judgement over the thoughts of others when, everything in the universe being random and chaotic and having no meaning, their thoughts really don't amount for shit.

Cursed Frogurt:
Global warming is real. Whether or not we are significantly affecting it is the debate.

Conspiracy theories are stupid. Personal agendas should always be considered.

If only what you said was true. A lot of people still say global wamring is just a government cover up, for either Chinese or Japanese cars. I also heard one that gays were behind global warming cause on account of how much sex they have.

arbane:

Ashoten:
Just when I'm ready to write you off as a hack Bob you go and make something brilliant like this. Except that part about global warming. Which is more likely? A bunch of oil conglomorates all setting aside their competition with each other to mastermind a global dominance of the energy market

OPEC?

Ashoten:
to make themselves rich while purposefully misleading the public with falsified scientific findings? Or a bunch of different conman doom saying to a gullible public willing to give them cash to stop an immanent threat that they can nether prove or disprove?

Yeah, those poor suffering oil companies are being driven to the verge of bankruptcy while the Secret Evil Liberal Science Conspiracy is making literally TENS of dollars!

And we'll be able to prove the threat when the water reaches your lower lip. Or will you still be insisting on Further Study then?

Ignorant, uneducated opinion. Global warming is happening. We don't have much to do with it. Nothing we can do and ESPECIALLY nothing we do, helps. As for how much profits ecobussiness generates, take a head out of your ass for a second and take a minute to browse EU CO2 limits for countries and how everyone has to pay for CO2 they are emiting (apart from Iceland I guess as this little volcano used up their CO2 limit for the next 100 years, dayum shame). And then look where all this money are going. We should be spending money preparing to deal with consequences of global warming instead of limiting our 0.0001% global CO2 share. There really is no evidence to prove that we are the couse of this and by now such ignorance makes me rage, because as I ask for evidence of our involvment, it turns out people don't know shit. Only person able to disscuss it with me was a greenpeace man giving out info to people passing by. And even he after 5 min told me he just works here and really agrees with me...

As for JFK... dunno, evidence seem to be compelling, especially that he annoyed the hell out of enough people to get himself killed, and there is a lot of little details I'm not gonna bore anyone with.

Interesting video, seriously but how about 9/11 ? On a funnier note, i found the video hilarious and i connected you and i to be common in the sense we escape reality as much as humanly possible! Btw...in my head you look like the lizard man from TMNT ><

Serenegoose:
Bleh. My biggest problem with conspiracy theories being so widespread is that it means they're actually possible (in far more mundane ways than a global shadow government yes, but still possible) because all you need to do to discredit inquiry is to look incredulously and say 'it's conspiracy nonsense' and then whoever asked the question has to look sheepish and go away forever. It's not a binary. Conspiracies do exist, not all conspiracy theories are invalid, but yes, 9/10 of them are bunk. Of course, even by saying 'conspiracies happen' people probably think I'm a kook. Which kinda proves my point.

This.

If one were to put Bobs argument rather formally, it would go something like this:
1) We believe in conspiracy theories because they make the world appear more ordered and manageable.
2) Most (possibly 'all', but I'll be generous) conspiracy theories break down when analyzed logically.
3) Most (All?) conspiracy theories are therefore false.

It doesn't quite work. Some are more plausible than others. People are also certainly capable of starting conspiracies as well (this is why we have anti-trust laws, and why 'conspiracy' is a class of crime).

JFK and the moon landing are the typical examples. There's logic behind each of them though, and you don't have to believe in a shadow government or the illuminati to believe in them. We could have faked the moon landing for pure propaganda purposes. We WERE in a cold war arms race after all. In fact, what seems like the more fantastic feat? That people staged something in Hollywood, or that people actually traveled to the moon?

What's even funnier is that the same argument could be made about religious miracles. What's more improbable, that thousands of people all decided to lie about something in a giant, unorganized conspiracy, or that the laws of nature were actually violated. My instincts are that Bob would lie on the other side of that argument (which I am merely putting out there for rhetorical purposes, and am not myself advocating, mind you).

Sorry Bob, the dragons already got me. Guess I'll to meet your troopers in glorious combat.

Seriously though. There are people in my town that genuinely think Barrack Obama will become the next Adolf Hitler.

No, really. That's their specific message.

I'll just let that one speak for itself.

Ha! The ending was perfect!

Made some nice points there. I've always hated when people tell me about their conspiracy theories.

Some good points, but I still don't like fluoride in water, or government in general.

JackSparrowSucks:

arbane:

GrizzlerBorno:
Hmmm....I've never looked at conspiracy theories as Religions before, but it DOES actually make a lot of sense that argument. No wonder why fighting conspiracy theorist trolls is as tiresome as fighting preaching fanatic trolls.

Good Vid Bob.

Religion and Conspiracy Theories have the same big three draws for people:
1: The promise of Hidden Knowledge that makes you BETTER than most people,
2: A fraudulent but compelling structure that FORCES the world to make SENSE, and
3: Someone or something to BLAME everything on.

JackSparrowSucks:

The hell?

Um, yes. I think it's fake because it's an inherently irrational idea. Gloabl Climate Change is real, yes, but so are bowel movements. I don't think it's human-caused.

I believe it's just a "warming cycle" that will end.

The only reason so many people believe in it is because they want to feel smart, in my opinion.

Ok, so what's all these climatologists, ecologists, and so on's motivation for the biggest deliberate scientific fraud since Darwin decided to fake evolution? Or are all these college types just such idiots they can't see the Obvious Facts that your omniscient Gut has bestowed upon you?

Uh, no; that'd be arrogant. You know Global Warming isn't proven, right? Seriously, look it up. My opinion is based entirely on reason and logic, since it's a sort of soft science anyone could understand.

If you want, you can PM your facts (and I am easily chacnged by facts and such) and I'll Pm you mine (It doesn't include that "half percent increase" buggery). if you find a flaw, just Pm me more facts. I'm bored. And not offensive.

Remember the medieval warming trend? it had quite the carbon dioxide spike. Indeed, almost 1/5 of that which humans have created within the past couple of centuries.

Some bits of information:
This warming isn't simply warming. It's an average increase, but it also means that temperatures vary more.
The amount of time in which the greenhouse gas levels have increased is not enough time to show significant increase. And europe is in danger of entering another ice age (something that hasn't happened in tens of thousands of years, in a significant warming trend). It will be several centuries before the carbon dioxide levels return to normal.
The northwest passage, in this time, has become almost entirely open during the summer. Things don't happen this fast (indeed, proven) unless a significant environmental shock has occurred, say, a carbon dioxide spike virtually unheard of in the planet's history.
We are putting things in the atmosphere that haven't been there in millennia.

I don't have references at the moment (as it would take a while to get them), but if you want some they can be retrieved fairly quickly.

I also have a simple experiment based on reason and logic that can be attempted fairly easily.

Supplies:
3 large jars (or multiples thereof) of equal size
wine taps (used for the production of homebrew liquor) of equal number to the jars.
Putty or other malleable sealant
heat lamps of equal number to the jars
Thermometers of equal numbers to the jars
dry ice

tape a thermometer inside each jar
cut holes in the jar lids, place wine taps inside and seal with putty.
Separate the jars into three equal groups.
Close the lids on the first group, leave the jars empty.
Place 1% of each jar's holding volume in dry ice in each jar of the second group. close the lids tightly.
Place 2% of each jar's holding volume in dry ice in each jar of the third group. close the lids tightly.
Place a heat lamp 5 inches from each jar and aim it towards the jar and turn them on.
Record the temperature inside each jar every 5 minutes for 1 hour.
Turn off the heat lamps.
Record the temperature inside each jar every 5 minutes for 1 hour.

Results I obtained: Dry ice is frozen carbon dioxide, jars with 1% dry ice in them were consistently several degrees warmer and even more so in the 2% jars than in the normal jars at the warming peak. They also cooled down much more slowly. Higher than normal carbon dioxide levels trap more heat.

Deductive reasoning: if minute levels of carbon dioxide can increase heat this much on a small scale, how is the earth affected on a large scale.

But that was really off-topic.

Really enjoyed the video. Another good one, Bob.

EDIT: just looking back... that was one hell of a lot longer than intended. Sorry.

The Romanian Witch story is very interesting. The main advocate claimed the regulatory laws for magical practice and fortune telling were regected because politicians feared being cursed. Which is pretty funny. THe truth is it was rejected because requiring what is a moslty an underground market to keep receipts for tax purposes. It would also recquire them to stand behind their predictions and promises. Which is silly we don't force horoscope writters to stand behind their predictions, hell we don't force Jim Cramer to stadn behind his predictions.

Still you got to love a witch tax. Goes well with the Romanian Vampire Industry.

arbane:

NaramSuen:
I agree with everything you said, but I am still a sucker for a good alien conspiracy. I know they are all crap, but I just can't turn away. I have watched more videos on UFOs than a sane person should admit to. I blame it all on Star Trek and the X-Files.

Have you looked into the Church of the SubGenius? More horrifying aliens than the entire Star Trek franchise, from the TechnoMutilator Yacatisma to the Advanced Aluminum Supersonic Nazi Hell Creatures from within the Hollow Earth!

(I'm pretty sure the Space Lizards are in there somewhere, but they're pretty far down the Cosmic Food Chain.)

Actually one of the greatest courses I took in university was all about modern religious movements. One section was about alien/UFO religions in general and the Church of the SubGenius was featured prominently. However, my personal favourite is the RaŽlian Church, started by a French sports-car journalist who met aliens (Elohim) in the 70s.

Nice Vid and I Love the Icke I read up on him and von Daniken for a paper last year. However the Iraq war theory of yours posits only two ideas and neither of them works.
The Idea that Saddam could fool the CIA is silly mainly because he would not want to. The invasion was based on the premise he had WMDs and the lack of UN backing was because they had no proof. No one in Iraq except his enemies would want the world to think he had weapons there. He even opened his doors to the UN to look for them which he wouldn't do if he was a posturing gangster.
It is known now that the information Given to Colin Powell was false and the CIA knew it was false. The only one who didn't know it was false was Powell who just said what he was told to say. We also have come to learn that Bush was kept in the dark about almost everything suggestign Cheney (Who declared himself no subject to the constitution and removed his house from google maps) was actually in charge.
As for why the Invasion took place? I don't know. No explanation makes sense. They all sound stupid or unrealistic. It may have been just another jingoistic pointless venture like the war of 1812 or the Spanish American War. Maybe we will find out in thirty years.

P.S. Not scared of the Reptillians Canada is too cold for lizards.

Billy3B:
P.S. Not scared of the Reptillians Canada is too cold for lizards.

For now. What do you think the global warming is for?

Global warming IS real... as is global cooling, it's a cycle.

Global warming being a threat to the existence of mankind... that's the part that is a joke.

Bob, I have to say, this was by far the worst thing you've put out on the internet in a while. First of all ,you're being a huge sterotype, an escapist movie.video game lover. Now dont get me wrong, do MOST video-gamers (including myself) dabble in escapist. YES! Almost everyone on erth does at some extent. I love history, sometimes I love to create my own history to escape and right the wrongs of the history that I know, but that doesnt mean I dislike the world at all. I think people who honestly for the most part dislike the world, take for granted most of the things in the world. A few more points I want to go over and try and critic: The dentist-world anology, the world is mostly an enjoyable place. Living is one of the happiest part of life, and this may sound a bit strange but think about it: Would you be happier dead or alive? I believe in Heaven and even that doesnt make me want to find out if there actually is one any faster. Also, while its true everything tends toward choas, this doesnt mean choas dominates life on earth. Yes, shit happens. However, shit often happens for a reason, and while this doesnt make much sense from an individual perspective, puzzle-pieces often match in history (History doesnt repeat, it rhymes) As for an obvious take on religion: The idea that religion is only there and only is believed in is because it's "comforting" is simply put, stupid. Just because there's a God doesnt mean life is any better or any easier. Heaven doesnt suppress our will to live, and hell doesnt FORCE us to do good in our lives. Religion is simply a matter of a belief system, and a system of moral objectivity, regardless, higher power is almost impossible for there not to be (Most people wont admit that though) "Governed by an idiot." - most people, including you Bob, has been monsterously unfair to George Bush, in the same way people in the 1920s and 30s were unfair to Herbert Hoover, competent, and even somewhat unique that got handed a crisis that their political and academic preparation for office had not prepared them for. (The Depression, and the Iraq war respectively)And if Bush was Hoover, than Obama's FDR, meaning that he will largely not have many successes but still be remember by those who only have a superficial understanding of history as a great man (FDR didnt do almost nothing that actually improved the state of the economic during the Depression, only the mobilzation of the armed forces in WWII did that)
Global Warming is real: To such a thing REALLY makes you seem a bit arrogent Bob. Global Warming is a complicated and unresolved issue and while I wont claim to know all about it, I DO know that there's a LOT of people who say there it isnt our fault that simply dont get listened to. There's A LOT of ACTUAL scientists, geologists, and others on the other side which simply have been tuned out by most of the media and populus. Global warming has not been proven nor is it even have a logical foundation that humanity is the cause of it. The world goes in cycles, hell about 100 years ago there was a global cooling frenzy and scientists at the time actually considered melting the polar ice caps to prevent the next ice age...yeah. Maybe you're not right about everything man, sometimes you should admit that once and a while because lately all your videos have been PAINFUL to listen to.

Except if you really look into the JFK assassination, you'll notice that some things just don't seem right. There's a lot of evidence to prove Oswald's guilt, but there's an equal amount of evidence that shows that he at least hadn't planned the event alone.

Oskamunda:

Insightful? Are you joking? I'm starting to think this opinion show should never be watched by anyone because the opinions are logically flawed while also accusing other opinions of being logically flawed.

Even if a show has flawed logic, it's a good mental exercise :)

Think about it, you just thought out a proper response to this video. That's worth something, isn't it?

The only way bad opinions can be harmful is if the people watching haven't the capability of forming their own.

@ Ritter ^^

You ARE aware that it's an opinion piece. Most of what you said was criticizing him for having an opinion. You criticize him for BEING a stereotype? That's just his opinion, he wasn't misrepresenting anyone by stating it. He's definitely wrong about certain things, (see his video on genetically engineered food). But you seem to make a lot of claims yourself, but haven't made arguments in favor of those claims, nor cited any sources, so are you that much better? You're claims actually seem a lot stronger than his, and somehow I don't get the impression that you're just stating your opinion, but what you think are facts.

zehydra:

Oskamunda:

Insightful? Are you joking? I'm starting to think this opinion show should never be watched by anyone because the opinions are logically flawed while also accusing other opinions of being logically flawed.

Even if a show has flawed logic, it's a good mental exercise :)

Think about it, you just thought out a proper response to this video. That's worth something, isn't it?

The only way bad opinions can be harmful is if the people watching haven't the capability of forming their own.

It's true. Feeling that something is flawed and then working out how exactly it is flawed is an excellent mental exercise. That's really the only worth of opinion pieces. After all, what's the alternative? To think someone's opinion is perfect and adopt it as your own? Meh. I don't tend to get much out of things that I agree with.

Drake_Dercon:

JackSparrowSucks:

arbane:

Religion and Conspiracy Theories have the same big three draws for people:
1: The promise of Hidden Knowledge that makes you BETTER than most people,
2: A fraudulent but compelling structure that FORCES the world to make SENSE, and
3: Someone or something to BLAME everything on.

Ok, so what's all these climatologists, ecologists, and so on's motivation for the biggest deliberate scientific fraud since Darwin decided to fake evolution? Or are all these college types just such idiots they can't see the Obvious Facts that your omniscient Gut has bestowed upon you?

Uh, no; that'd be arrogant. You know Global Warming isn't proven, right? Seriously, look it up. My opinion is based entirely on reason and logic, since it's a sort of soft science anyone could understand.

If you want, you can PM your facts (and I am easily chacnged by facts and such) and I'll Pm you mine (It doesn't include that "half percent increase" buggery). if you find a flaw, just Pm me more facts. I'm bored. And not offensive.

Remember the medieval warming trend? it had quite the carbon dioxide spike. Indeed, almost 1/5 of that which humans have created within the past couple of centuries.

Some bits of information:
This warming isn't simply warming. It's an average increase, but it also means that temperatures vary more.
The amount of time in which the greenhouse gas levels have increased is not enough time to show significant increase. And europe is in danger of entering another ice age (something that hasn't happened in tens of thousands of years, in a significant warming trend). It will be several centuries before the carbon dioxide levels return to normal.
The northwest passage, in this time, has become almost entirely open during the summer. Things don't happen this fast (indeed, proven) unless a significant environmental shock has occurred, say, a carbon dioxide spike virtually unheard of in the planet's history.
We are putting things in the atmosphere that haven't been there in millennia.

I don't have references at the moment (as it would take a while to get them), but if you want some they can be retrieved fairly quickly.

I also have a simple experiment based on reason and logic that can be attempted fairly easily.

...

Deductive reasoning: if minute levels of carbon dioxide can increase heat this much on a small scale, how is the earth affected on a large scale.

But that was really off-topic.

Really enjoyed the video. Another good one, Bob.

EDIT: just looking back... that was one hell of a lot longer than intended. Sorry.

Not to be a pedant, but that's technically inductive reasoning.

To anyone who criticizes a scientific theory for not being proven... gravity isn't proven. In fact, there isn't a single thing in science that is proven. That's why they're called theories. However, for something to even become a theory it has to tested rather extensively, so it's not so easily dismissed.

Devil's advocate: We don't understand the weather system all that well, it's VERY complicated.

Counterpoint: it is more or less a non-debatable fact that we are throwing C02 and other greenhouse gasses into the air. However, our prediction about the affects of this are more based upon an understanding of chemistry than meteorology or climatology. (Kind of like your experiment.)

But it is another straightforward and almost non-debatable fact that we are MASSIVELY loosing biodiversity, which is bad for several reasons.

I haven't heard of anything really proving either side definitively, however, we are not helping matters. It's not just C02 remember, there's also a lot of artificial greenhouse gasses that we produce, which couldn't possibly be part of the earth's natural cycle.

Since you're both so big on rational argumentation, here's an argument from prudential ethics:

Which is worse,

the greatest possible evil associated with global warming (possible destruction of much of society, even the death of the planet if the oxygen-producing plankton get wiped out),

or

the greatest possible evil associated with us being wrong (industry takes a hit and the economy suffers, possibly leading to a great depression)?

Draconalis:
Global warming IS real... as is global cooling, it's a cycle.

Global warming being a threat to the existence of mankind... that's the part that is a joke.

Yeah. It's not like species ever go extinct.

Ritter315:
"Governed by an idiot." - most people, including you Bob, has been monsterously unfair to George Bush,

I fully agree-we have been TERRIBLY unfair to Bush.

Unfortunately, I don't have the authority to drag his corrupt torturemonkey ass in front of the war-crimes tribunal he's EARNED, and the people who do are either unindicted accomplices or utterly spineless.

Ritter315:
Also, while its true everything tends toward choas, this doesnt mean choas dominates life on earth. Yes, shit happens. However, shit often happens for a reason, and while this doesnt make much sense from an individual perspective, puzzle-pieces often match in history (History doesnt repeat, it rhymes)

As a Discordian, I have to disagree. It's pretty obvious that the world is filled with chaos, and I personally take a great deal of comfort in the inherent randomness and unfairness of the universe, even if it means that Molly Ivins is dead and Glenn Beck isn't.

Ritter315:

(FDR didnt do almost nothing that actually improved the state of the economic during the Depression, only the mobilzation of the armed forces in WWII did that)

"didnt do almost nothing"... GRAMMAR, MOTHER****ER, DO YOU SPEAK IT?!

I don't care if FDR's policies didn't 'help the economy', they KEPT PEOPLE FROM STARVING OR RIOTING. Most people who aren't Republicans or sociopaths would think that is a GOOD thing.

(Global warming BLUH snipped. Been over this already, bored now. Reality is not determined by a majority vote.)

ReiverCorrupter:
Since you're both so big on rational argumentation, here's an argument from prudential ethics:

Which is worse,

the greatest possible evil associated with global warming (possible destruction of much of society, even the death of the planet if the oxygen-producing plankton get wiped out),

or

the greatest possible evil associated with us being wrong (industry takes a hit and the economy suffers, possibly leading to a great depression)?

Hah. Reminds me of a button I saw once: "The ozone layer, or cheese in a spray can? DON'T MAKE ME CHOOSE."

Humans are good at a lot of things, but long-term planning is NOT one of them.

wasalp:

Cursed Frogurt:
Global warming is real. Whether or not we are significantly affecting it is the debate.

Conspiracy theories are stupid. Personal agendas should always be considered.

really? Its pretty obvious. I think its 97% of scientists believe global warming is caused by humans, the other 3% are less educated and qualified then their brethren.

Oh really? 97% & the remaining 3% are the dumb ones? How do you know those 3% aren't the smartest ones?
Could you please explain why THIRTY THOUSAND scientists have signed up to debunk man-made global warming, NINE THOUSAND of whom have PhD's?

If man made Global Warming/Climate Change is believed to be real, then governments everywhere have another excuse to impose more taxes on its citizens and make more regulations on energy use, all in the name of saving the planet. Anyone against the new tax or regulation would be painted as being against saving the planet. Oh, and they'd be labeled a kook for not believing it's all man's fault. Any scientist speaking out against it is automatically labeled a shill for Big Oil and ignored.

Tin Man:

Warachia:

Tin Man:

So The Escapist have actually started forcing people to watch their shows? Shows where the entire point of it is that its a no-holds barred look at large scale topics through a geek lense?

Those bastards.

You obviously misunderstood me, nobody is forcing anybody to watch anything, but it's poor taste for anybody to come out and say, look people, I'm right, you're wrong, now think like me.

Its a good thing I find irony delicious.

In all fairness dude, if you don't like that kind of thing, don't watch the show. The whole, heavily opinionated, well spoken geek thing is hardly a new angle of Escapist shows. Some of us are comfortable enough in our own opinions to not get bothered by other peoples, and find them quite entertaining, if not thought provoking.

If you don't, then that's cool, but don't sit there being hypocritical and speaking for other people while you're at it.

Much love.

I also love when others make my argument, if you don't like my comment, don't reply, there is nothing forcing you to do so, and like I said earlier, I don't mind learning the opinions of others, it is thought provoking, and entertaining, which is the sole reason I watch this show, I also thought some people appreciate feedback on what people thought of their most recent show, but you have shown me that an honest comment is to be treated harshly.

Also, I fail to see any irony in my post.

goldenheart323:
Could you please explain why THIRTY THOUSAND scientists have signed up to debunk man-made global warming, NINE THOUSAND of whom have PhD's?

Yeah about that list...

The above link:
The OISM's qualifications for being a "scientist" are expansive, and as such there are a number of questions that have to be answered before we can take this list seriously. What expertise does a nuclear engineer or a medical doctor or a food scientist or mechanical engineer have that makes them qualified to have an informed opinion on the cause(s) of recent climate disruption? How many of these names are working climate scientists instead of science or math teachers or stay-at-home-mom's with engineering degrees? How many of these people has actually published a peer-reviewed paper on climate? How many people took a look at the card that served as a "signature" (click on the image to see a larger version) and realized that they could lie about having a science degree and their deception would never be discovered?

At this point it's literally impossible to know because the names and degrees on the list cannot be verified by anyone outside the OISM. We can only take the OISM's word that they're all real names, that all the degrees are correct, and so on. This does not stand up to the most basic tests of scientific credibility.

goldenheart323:

If man made Global Warming/Climate Change is believed to be real, then governments everywhere have another excuse to impose more taxes on its citizens and make more regulations on energy use, all in the name of saving the planet. Anyone against the new tax or regulation would be painted as being against saving the planet. Oh, and they'd be labeled a kook for not believing it's all man's fault. Any scientist speaking out against it is automatically labeled a shill for Big Oil and ignored.

Ok, so it's an EVIL GUBMINT CONSPIRACY faked up to CONTROL EVERYTHING. How appropriate for this thread.

Geez, lay off Fox News. What, Democrats need every single news outlet?

And while yes, Global Warming is real, we are not the major cause of it. The Earth goes through changes. Do people actually think our meaningless existence is going to kill the Earth after thousands of years of ice ages and natural disasters?

Hatchet90:
Geez, lay off Fox News. What, Democrats need every single news outlet?

So, you're going with the Liberal Biased Media conspiracy theory?

Kindly explain how Bush was ever taken seriously as a Presidential candidate, please. Or why his explanations for Why We Need To Invade Iraq RIGHTNOWNOWNOW weren't torn to bits by a mocking and skeptical Liberal Biased Media.

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